$f(x^2*f(y)^2) = f(x^2) * f(y)$












0












$begingroup$


$$f(x^2 * f(y)^2) = f(x^2) * f(y)$$
$$f:{mathbb Q}^+ rightarrow {mathbb Q}^+$$
$x,y in {mathbb Q}^+$



I have been given the following equation and information and am supposed to find all functions which satisfy this equation.
I have found $f(x)=1$ and $f(x)=sqrt{x}$ work.
How can I prove more exist/ do not exist?










share|cite|improve this question











$endgroup$












  • $begingroup$
    Thank you for helping me with the edit.
    $endgroup$
    – Bulldocarx
    Dec 12 '18 at 17:03










  • $begingroup$
    I would suggest sticking with my formatting. $*$ for multiplication is nonstandard, and usually you only use the phrase "following equation" when the equation comes after that part of the text.
    $endgroup$
    – eyeballfrog
    Dec 12 '18 at 17:05










  • $begingroup$
    What is the standard symbol for multiplication then?
    $endgroup$
    – Bulldocarx
    Dec 12 '18 at 17:11












  • $begingroup$
    Multiplication is most often indicated by simple juxtaposition, or "$cdot$", or "$times$".
    $endgroup$
    – MPW
    Dec 12 '18 at 17:13












  • $begingroup$
    Since the square root of a rational number isn't always rational, and $fcolon mathbb Q^+rightarrowmathbb Q^+$, $fcolon xmapstosqrt x$ can't be a solution.
    $endgroup$
    – Philippe Malot
    Dec 12 '18 at 17:38


















0












$begingroup$


$$f(x^2 * f(y)^2) = f(x^2) * f(y)$$
$$f:{mathbb Q}^+ rightarrow {mathbb Q}^+$$
$x,y in {mathbb Q}^+$



I have been given the following equation and information and am supposed to find all functions which satisfy this equation.
I have found $f(x)=1$ and $f(x)=sqrt{x}$ work.
How can I prove more exist/ do not exist?










share|cite|improve this question











$endgroup$












  • $begingroup$
    Thank you for helping me with the edit.
    $endgroup$
    – Bulldocarx
    Dec 12 '18 at 17:03










  • $begingroup$
    I would suggest sticking with my formatting. $*$ for multiplication is nonstandard, and usually you only use the phrase "following equation" when the equation comes after that part of the text.
    $endgroup$
    – eyeballfrog
    Dec 12 '18 at 17:05










  • $begingroup$
    What is the standard symbol for multiplication then?
    $endgroup$
    – Bulldocarx
    Dec 12 '18 at 17:11












  • $begingroup$
    Multiplication is most often indicated by simple juxtaposition, or "$cdot$", or "$times$".
    $endgroup$
    – MPW
    Dec 12 '18 at 17:13












  • $begingroup$
    Since the square root of a rational number isn't always rational, and $fcolon mathbb Q^+rightarrowmathbb Q^+$, $fcolon xmapstosqrt x$ can't be a solution.
    $endgroup$
    – Philippe Malot
    Dec 12 '18 at 17:38
















0












0








0





$begingroup$


$$f(x^2 * f(y)^2) = f(x^2) * f(y)$$
$$f:{mathbb Q}^+ rightarrow {mathbb Q}^+$$
$x,y in {mathbb Q}^+$



I have been given the following equation and information and am supposed to find all functions which satisfy this equation.
I have found $f(x)=1$ and $f(x)=sqrt{x}$ work.
How can I prove more exist/ do not exist?










share|cite|improve this question











$endgroup$




$$f(x^2 * f(y)^2) = f(x^2) * f(y)$$
$$f:{mathbb Q}^+ rightarrow {mathbb Q}^+$$
$x,y in {mathbb Q}^+$



I have been given the following equation and information and am supposed to find all functions which satisfy this equation.
I have found $f(x)=1$ and $f(x)=sqrt{x}$ work.
How can I prove more exist/ do not exist?







functional-equations






share|cite|improve this question















share|cite|improve this question













share|cite|improve this question




share|cite|improve this question








edited Dec 12 '18 at 17:02







Bulldocarx

















asked Dec 12 '18 at 16:49









BulldocarxBulldocarx

104




104












  • $begingroup$
    Thank you for helping me with the edit.
    $endgroup$
    – Bulldocarx
    Dec 12 '18 at 17:03










  • $begingroup$
    I would suggest sticking with my formatting. $*$ for multiplication is nonstandard, and usually you only use the phrase "following equation" when the equation comes after that part of the text.
    $endgroup$
    – eyeballfrog
    Dec 12 '18 at 17:05










  • $begingroup$
    What is the standard symbol for multiplication then?
    $endgroup$
    – Bulldocarx
    Dec 12 '18 at 17:11












  • $begingroup$
    Multiplication is most often indicated by simple juxtaposition, or "$cdot$", or "$times$".
    $endgroup$
    – MPW
    Dec 12 '18 at 17:13












  • $begingroup$
    Since the square root of a rational number isn't always rational, and $fcolon mathbb Q^+rightarrowmathbb Q^+$, $fcolon xmapstosqrt x$ can't be a solution.
    $endgroup$
    – Philippe Malot
    Dec 12 '18 at 17:38




















  • $begingroup$
    Thank you for helping me with the edit.
    $endgroup$
    – Bulldocarx
    Dec 12 '18 at 17:03










  • $begingroup$
    I would suggest sticking with my formatting. $*$ for multiplication is nonstandard, and usually you only use the phrase "following equation" when the equation comes after that part of the text.
    $endgroup$
    – eyeballfrog
    Dec 12 '18 at 17:05










  • $begingroup$
    What is the standard symbol for multiplication then?
    $endgroup$
    – Bulldocarx
    Dec 12 '18 at 17:11












  • $begingroup$
    Multiplication is most often indicated by simple juxtaposition, or "$cdot$", or "$times$".
    $endgroup$
    – MPW
    Dec 12 '18 at 17:13












  • $begingroup$
    Since the square root of a rational number isn't always rational, and $fcolon mathbb Q^+rightarrowmathbb Q^+$, $fcolon xmapstosqrt x$ can't be a solution.
    $endgroup$
    – Philippe Malot
    Dec 12 '18 at 17:38


















$begingroup$
Thank you for helping me with the edit.
$endgroup$
– Bulldocarx
Dec 12 '18 at 17:03




$begingroup$
Thank you for helping me with the edit.
$endgroup$
– Bulldocarx
Dec 12 '18 at 17:03












$begingroup$
I would suggest sticking with my formatting. $*$ for multiplication is nonstandard, and usually you only use the phrase "following equation" when the equation comes after that part of the text.
$endgroup$
– eyeballfrog
Dec 12 '18 at 17:05




$begingroup$
I would suggest sticking with my formatting. $*$ for multiplication is nonstandard, and usually you only use the phrase "following equation" when the equation comes after that part of the text.
$endgroup$
– eyeballfrog
Dec 12 '18 at 17:05












$begingroup$
What is the standard symbol for multiplication then?
$endgroup$
– Bulldocarx
Dec 12 '18 at 17:11






$begingroup$
What is the standard symbol for multiplication then?
$endgroup$
– Bulldocarx
Dec 12 '18 at 17:11














$begingroup$
Multiplication is most often indicated by simple juxtaposition, or "$cdot$", or "$times$".
$endgroup$
– MPW
Dec 12 '18 at 17:13






$begingroup$
Multiplication is most often indicated by simple juxtaposition, or "$cdot$", or "$times$".
$endgroup$
– MPW
Dec 12 '18 at 17:13














$begingroup$
Since the square root of a rational number isn't always rational, and $fcolon mathbb Q^+rightarrowmathbb Q^+$, $fcolon xmapstosqrt x$ can't be a solution.
$endgroup$
– Philippe Malot
Dec 12 '18 at 17:38






$begingroup$
Since the square root of a rational number isn't always rational, and $fcolon mathbb Q^+rightarrowmathbb Q^+$, $fcolon xmapstosqrt x$ can't be a solution.
$endgroup$
– Philippe Malot
Dec 12 '18 at 17:38












1 Answer
1






active

oldest

votes


















1












$begingroup$

Observe, we do the following manipulation: let $x = 1$ :
$$f(f(y)^2) = f(x^2 cdot f(y)^2) = f(x^2) cdot f(y) = f(1) cdot f(y) = f(y cdot f(1)^2) $$



Case: Assume the function is left-invertible (or simply invertible), which tends to be a desirable quality for solutions of functional equations, you get:



$$f(y)^2 = y cdot f(1)^2$$



Which, since $f(y) geq 0$, becomes:



$$f(y) = f(1) sqrt{y}$$



However, in order for $f(y) in mathbb{Q}^{+}$, the only valid choice is $f(1) = 0$. That is,
$$f(y) = 0$$



Note: The zero function isn't invertible, but I added it effectively falls into the next case, as well as your discovery that $f(x) = 1$ is a solution as well.



Case: $f$ possesses no left inverse. So $f$ is not injective.



This is where everything starts to break apart. You can start going down the Rabbits hole of tossing away assumptions.



Observe, let $x = 1$ and $y = 0$, then:



$$f(1) cdot f(0) = f(f(0)^2) = f(0 cdot f(1)^2) = f(0) $$



And letting $x = 0 = y$:



$$f(0) = f(0) cdot f(0) in { 0, 1 }$$



Case: $f(0) = 1 = f(1)$. Then the equation becomes:



$$f(f(y)^2) = f(y)$$



This is simply a recurrence relation over $mathbb{Q}^{+}$. Given a value $y$, choose the value $f(y) = m in mathbb{Q}^{+}$. Then:



$$f(m^2) = m$$



So this takes care of all the values ${ x in mathbb{Q}^{+} : exists y in mathbb{Q}^{+} text{ such that } y^2 = x}$. For the remainder of the values, we can make a variety of choices. Specifically, we can let those values go to one. That is, we can have the function:



$$f(x) = begin{cases}
sqrt{x} & sqrt{x} in mathbb{Q}^{+} \
1 & text{otherwise}
end{cases}$$



But we can also try many other potential functions. You might not be able to construct a function that is continuous however. This because if you have a sequence of numbers from the right that approach $y$ that are rationally square rootable, and a sequence from the left that are rationally square rootable, you can try to choose $f(y)$ to such that



$$x_n rightarrow y leftarrow z_n$$
$$sqrt{x_n} rightarrow f(y) leftarrow sqrt{z_n}$$



But due to the incompleteness of $mathbb{Q}$, I don't remember if there is a way of choosing a satisfactory alternative $f(y)$.



Case: $f(0) = 0$. I'll let you take this from here. It's very similar to the function we found in the previous case, except $f(0) = 0$ is stated explicitly.



Edit: Totally assumed $0 in mathbb{Q}^{+}$. If not, replace with an $epsilon in mathbb{Q}^{+}$.






share|cite|improve this answer











$endgroup$













  • $begingroup$
    Nice start! Note that $f(y)=0$ is not a valid solution, since also $0notinBbb{Q}^+$.
    $endgroup$
    – Servaes
    Dec 12 '18 at 19:13










  • $begingroup$
    Note also that $x,yin mathbb{Q}^+$, so we cannot let $x=0$ or $y=0$.
    $endgroup$
    – mlerma54
    Dec 12 '18 at 19:42











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1 Answer
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active

oldest

votes








1 Answer
1






active

oldest

votes









active

oldest

votes






active

oldest

votes









1












$begingroup$

Observe, we do the following manipulation: let $x = 1$ :
$$f(f(y)^2) = f(x^2 cdot f(y)^2) = f(x^2) cdot f(y) = f(1) cdot f(y) = f(y cdot f(1)^2) $$



Case: Assume the function is left-invertible (or simply invertible), which tends to be a desirable quality for solutions of functional equations, you get:



$$f(y)^2 = y cdot f(1)^2$$



Which, since $f(y) geq 0$, becomes:



$$f(y) = f(1) sqrt{y}$$



However, in order for $f(y) in mathbb{Q}^{+}$, the only valid choice is $f(1) = 0$. That is,
$$f(y) = 0$$



Note: The zero function isn't invertible, but I added it effectively falls into the next case, as well as your discovery that $f(x) = 1$ is a solution as well.



Case: $f$ possesses no left inverse. So $f$ is not injective.



This is where everything starts to break apart. You can start going down the Rabbits hole of tossing away assumptions.



Observe, let $x = 1$ and $y = 0$, then:



$$f(1) cdot f(0) = f(f(0)^2) = f(0 cdot f(1)^2) = f(0) $$



And letting $x = 0 = y$:



$$f(0) = f(0) cdot f(0) in { 0, 1 }$$



Case: $f(0) = 1 = f(1)$. Then the equation becomes:



$$f(f(y)^2) = f(y)$$



This is simply a recurrence relation over $mathbb{Q}^{+}$. Given a value $y$, choose the value $f(y) = m in mathbb{Q}^{+}$. Then:



$$f(m^2) = m$$



So this takes care of all the values ${ x in mathbb{Q}^{+} : exists y in mathbb{Q}^{+} text{ such that } y^2 = x}$. For the remainder of the values, we can make a variety of choices. Specifically, we can let those values go to one. That is, we can have the function:



$$f(x) = begin{cases}
sqrt{x} & sqrt{x} in mathbb{Q}^{+} \
1 & text{otherwise}
end{cases}$$



But we can also try many other potential functions. You might not be able to construct a function that is continuous however. This because if you have a sequence of numbers from the right that approach $y$ that are rationally square rootable, and a sequence from the left that are rationally square rootable, you can try to choose $f(y)$ to such that



$$x_n rightarrow y leftarrow z_n$$
$$sqrt{x_n} rightarrow f(y) leftarrow sqrt{z_n}$$



But due to the incompleteness of $mathbb{Q}$, I don't remember if there is a way of choosing a satisfactory alternative $f(y)$.



Case: $f(0) = 0$. I'll let you take this from here. It's very similar to the function we found in the previous case, except $f(0) = 0$ is stated explicitly.



Edit: Totally assumed $0 in mathbb{Q}^{+}$. If not, replace with an $epsilon in mathbb{Q}^{+}$.






share|cite|improve this answer











$endgroup$













  • $begingroup$
    Nice start! Note that $f(y)=0$ is not a valid solution, since also $0notinBbb{Q}^+$.
    $endgroup$
    – Servaes
    Dec 12 '18 at 19:13










  • $begingroup$
    Note also that $x,yin mathbb{Q}^+$, so we cannot let $x=0$ or $y=0$.
    $endgroup$
    – mlerma54
    Dec 12 '18 at 19:42
















1












$begingroup$

Observe, we do the following manipulation: let $x = 1$ :
$$f(f(y)^2) = f(x^2 cdot f(y)^2) = f(x^2) cdot f(y) = f(1) cdot f(y) = f(y cdot f(1)^2) $$



Case: Assume the function is left-invertible (or simply invertible), which tends to be a desirable quality for solutions of functional equations, you get:



$$f(y)^2 = y cdot f(1)^2$$



Which, since $f(y) geq 0$, becomes:



$$f(y) = f(1) sqrt{y}$$



However, in order for $f(y) in mathbb{Q}^{+}$, the only valid choice is $f(1) = 0$. That is,
$$f(y) = 0$$



Note: The zero function isn't invertible, but I added it effectively falls into the next case, as well as your discovery that $f(x) = 1$ is a solution as well.



Case: $f$ possesses no left inverse. So $f$ is not injective.



This is where everything starts to break apart. You can start going down the Rabbits hole of tossing away assumptions.



Observe, let $x = 1$ and $y = 0$, then:



$$f(1) cdot f(0) = f(f(0)^2) = f(0 cdot f(1)^2) = f(0) $$



And letting $x = 0 = y$:



$$f(0) = f(0) cdot f(0) in { 0, 1 }$$



Case: $f(0) = 1 = f(1)$. Then the equation becomes:



$$f(f(y)^2) = f(y)$$



This is simply a recurrence relation over $mathbb{Q}^{+}$. Given a value $y$, choose the value $f(y) = m in mathbb{Q}^{+}$. Then:



$$f(m^2) = m$$



So this takes care of all the values ${ x in mathbb{Q}^{+} : exists y in mathbb{Q}^{+} text{ such that } y^2 = x}$. For the remainder of the values, we can make a variety of choices. Specifically, we can let those values go to one. That is, we can have the function:



$$f(x) = begin{cases}
sqrt{x} & sqrt{x} in mathbb{Q}^{+} \
1 & text{otherwise}
end{cases}$$



But we can also try many other potential functions. You might not be able to construct a function that is continuous however. This because if you have a sequence of numbers from the right that approach $y$ that are rationally square rootable, and a sequence from the left that are rationally square rootable, you can try to choose $f(y)$ to such that



$$x_n rightarrow y leftarrow z_n$$
$$sqrt{x_n} rightarrow f(y) leftarrow sqrt{z_n}$$



But due to the incompleteness of $mathbb{Q}$, I don't remember if there is a way of choosing a satisfactory alternative $f(y)$.



Case: $f(0) = 0$. I'll let you take this from here. It's very similar to the function we found in the previous case, except $f(0) = 0$ is stated explicitly.



Edit: Totally assumed $0 in mathbb{Q}^{+}$. If not, replace with an $epsilon in mathbb{Q}^{+}$.






share|cite|improve this answer











$endgroup$













  • $begingroup$
    Nice start! Note that $f(y)=0$ is not a valid solution, since also $0notinBbb{Q}^+$.
    $endgroup$
    – Servaes
    Dec 12 '18 at 19:13










  • $begingroup$
    Note also that $x,yin mathbb{Q}^+$, so we cannot let $x=0$ or $y=0$.
    $endgroup$
    – mlerma54
    Dec 12 '18 at 19:42














1












1








1





$begingroup$

Observe, we do the following manipulation: let $x = 1$ :
$$f(f(y)^2) = f(x^2 cdot f(y)^2) = f(x^2) cdot f(y) = f(1) cdot f(y) = f(y cdot f(1)^2) $$



Case: Assume the function is left-invertible (or simply invertible), which tends to be a desirable quality for solutions of functional equations, you get:



$$f(y)^2 = y cdot f(1)^2$$



Which, since $f(y) geq 0$, becomes:



$$f(y) = f(1) sqrt{y}$$



However, in order for $f(y) in mathbb{Q}^{+}$, the only valid choice is $f(1) = 0$. That is,
$$f(y) = 0$$



Note: The zero function isn't invertible, but I added it effectively falls into the next case, as well as your discovery that $f(x) = 1$ is a solution as well.



Case: $f$ possesses no left inverse. So $f$ is not injective.



This is where everything starts to break apart. You can start going down the Rabbits hole of tossing away assumptions.



Observe, let $x = 1$ and $y = 0$, then:



$$f(1) cdot f(0) = f(f(0)^2) = f(0 cdot f(1)^2) = f(0) $$



And letting $x = 0 = y$:



$$f(0) = f(0) cdot f(0) in { 0, 1 }$$



Case: $f(0) = 1 = f(1)$. Then the equation becomes:



$$f(f(y)^2) = f(y)$$



This is simply a recurrence relation over $mathbb{Q}^{+}$. Given a value $y$, choose the value $f(y) = m in mathbb{Q}^{+}$. Then:



$$f(m^2) = m$$



So this takes care of all the values ${ x in mathbb{Q}^{+} : exists y in mathbb{Q}^{+} text{ such that } y^2 = x}$. For the remainder of the values, we can make a variety of choices. Specifically, we can let those values go to one. That is, we can have the function:



$$f(x) = begin{cases}
sqrt{x} & sqrt{x} in mathbb{Q}^{+} \
1 & text{otherwise}
end{cases}$$



But we can also try many other potential functions. You might not be able to construct a function that is continuous however. This because if you have a sequence of numbers from the right that approach $y$ that are rationally square rootable, and a sequence from the left that are rationally square rootable, you can try to choose $f(y)$ to such that



$$x_n rightarrow y leftarrow z_n$$
$$sqrt{x_n} rightarrow f(y) leftarrow sqrt{z_n}$$



But due to the incompleteness of $mathbb{Q}$, I don't remember if there is a way of choosing a satisfactory alternative $f(y)$.



Case: $f(0) = 0$. I'll let you take this from here. It's very similar to the function we found in the previous case, except $f(0) = 0$ is stated explicitly.



Edit: Totally assumed $0 in mathbb{Q}^{+}$. If not, replace with an $epsilon in mathbb{Q}^{+}$.






share|cite|improve this answer











$endgroup$



Observe, we do the following manipulation: let $x = 1$ :
$$f(f(y)^2) = f(x^2 cdot f(y)^2) = f(x^2) cdot f(y) = f(1) cdot f(y) = f(y cdot f(1)^2) $$



Case: Assume the function is left-invertible (or simply invertible), which tends to be a desirable quality for solutions of functional equations, you get:



$$f(y)^2 = y cdot f(1)^2$$



Which, since $f(y) geq 0$, becomes:



$$f(y) = f(1) sqrt{y}$$



However, in order for $f(y) in mathbb{Q}^{+}$, the only valid choice is $f(1) = 0$. That is,
$$f(y) = 0$$



Note: The zero function isn't invertible, but I added it effectively falls into the next case, as well as your discovery that $f(x) = 1$ is a solution as well.



Case: $f$ possesses no left inverse. So $f$ is not injective.



This is where everything starts to break apart. You can start going down the Rabbits hole of tossing away assumptions.



Observe, let $x = 1$ and $y = 0$, then:



$$f(1) cdot f(0) = f(f(0)^2) = f(0 cdot f(1)^2) = f(0) $$



And letting $x = 0 = y$:



$$f(0) = f(0) cdot f(0) in { 0, 1 }$$



Case: $f(0) = 1 = f(1)$. Then the equation becomes:



$$f(f(y)^2) = f(y)$$



This is simply a recurrence relation over $mathbb{Q}^{+}$. Given a value $y$, choose the value $f(y) = m in mathbb{Q}^{+}$. Then:



$$f(m^2) = m$$



So this takes care of all the values ${ x in mathbb{Q}^{+} : exists y in mathbb{Q}^{+} text{ such that } y^2 = x}$. For the remainder of the values, we can make a variety of choices. Specifically, we can let those values go to one. That is, we can have the function:



$$f(x) = begin{cases}
sqrt{x} & sqrt{x} in mathbb{Q}^{+} \
1 & text{otherwise}
end{cases}$$



But we can also try many other potential functions. You might not be able to construct a function that is continuous however. This because if you have a sequence of numbers from the right that approach $y$ that are rationally square rootable, and a sequence from the left that are rationally square rootable, you can try to choose $f(y)$ to such that



$$x_n rightarrow y leftarrow z_n$$
$$sqrt{x_n} rightarrow f(y) leftarrow sqrt{z_n}$$



But due to the incompleteness of $mathbb{Q}$, I don't remember if there is a way of choosing a satisfactory alternative $f(y)$.



Case: $f(0) = 0$. I'll let you take this from here. It's very similar to the function we found in the previous case, except $f(0) = 0$ is stated explicitly.



Edit: Totally assumed $0 in mathbb{Q}^{+}$. If not, replace with an $epsilon in mathbb{Q}^{+}$.







share|cite|improve this answer














share|cite|improve this answer



share|cite|improve this answer








edited Dec 12 '18 at 20:03

























answered Dec 12 '18 at 18:38









gdepaulgdepaul

613




613












  • $begingroup$
    Nice start! Note that $f(y)=0$ is not a valid solution, since also $0notinBbb{Q}^+$.
    $endgroup$
    – Servaes
    Dec 12 '18 at 19:13










  • $begingroup$
    Note also that $x,yin mathbb{Q}^+$, so we cannot let $x=0$ or $y=0$.
    $endgroup$
    – mlerma54
    Dec 12 '18 at 19:42


















  • $begingroup$
    Nice start! Note that $f(y)=0$ is not a valid solution, since also $0notinBbb{Q}^+$.
    $endgroup$
    – Servaes
    Dec 12 '18 at 19:13










  • $begingroup$
    Note also that $x,yin mathbb{Q}^+$, so we cannot let $x=0$ or $y=0$.
    $endgroup$
    – mlerma54
    Dec 12 '18 at 19:42
















$begingroup$
Nice start! Note that $f(y)=0$ is not a valid solution, since also $0notinBbb{Q}^+$.
$endgroup$
– Servaes
Dec 12 '18 at 19:13




$begingroup$
Nice start! Note that $f(y)=0$ is not a valid solution, since also $0notinBbb{Q}^+$.
$endgroup$
– Servaes
Dec 12 '18 at 19:13












$begingroup$
Note also that $x,yin mathbb{Q}^+$, so we cannot let $x=0$ or $y=0$.
$endgroup$
– mlerma54
Dec 12 '18 at 19:42




$begingroup$
Note also that $x,yin mathbb{Q}^+$, so we cannot let $x=0$ or $y=0$.
$endgroup$
– mlerma54
Dec 12 '18 at 19:42


















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