$f(x^2*f(y)^2) = f(x^2) * f(y)$
$begingroup$
$$f(x^2 * f(y)^2) = f(x^2) * f(y)$$
$$f:{mathbb Q}^+ rightarrow {mathbb Q}^+$$
$x,y in {mathbb Q}^+$
I have been given the following equation and information and am supposed to find all functions which satisfy this equation.
I have found $f(x)=1$ and $f(x)=sqrt{x}$ work.
How can I prove more exist/ do not exist?
functional-equations
$endgroup$
|
show 1 more comment
$begingroup$
$$f(x^2 * f(y)^2) = f(x^2) * f(y)$$
$$f:{mathbb Q}^+ rightarrow {mathbb Q}^+$$
$x,y in {mathbb Q}^+$
I have been given the following equation and information and am supposed to find all functions which satisfy this equation.
I have found $f(x)=1$ and $f(x)=sqrt{x}$ work.
How can I prove more exist/ do not exist?
functional-equations
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
Thank you for helping me with the edit.
$endgroup$
– Bulldocarx
Dec 12 '18 at 17:03
$begingroup$
I would suggest sticking with my formatting. $*$ for multiplication is nonstandard, and usually you only use the phrase "following equation" when the equation comes after that part of the text.
$endgroup$
– eyeballfrog
Dec 12 '18 at 17:05
$begingroup$
What is the standard symbol for multiplication then?
$endgroup$
– Bulldocarx
Dec 12 '18 at 17:11
$begingroup$
Multiplication is most often indicated by simple juxtaposition, or "$cdot$", or "$times$".
$endgroup$
– MPW
Dec 12 '18 at 17:13
$begingroup$
Since the square root of a rational number isn't always rational, and $fcolon mathbb Q^+rightarrowmathbb Q^+$, $fcolon xmapstosqrt x$ can't be a solution.
$endgroup$
– Philippe Malot
Dec 12 '18 at 17:38
|
show 1 more comment
$begingroup$
$$f(x^2 * f(y)^2) = f(x^2) * f(y)$$
$$f:{mathbb Q}^+ rightarrow {mathbb Q}^+$$
$x,y in {mathbb Q}^+$
I have been given the following equation and information and am supposed to find all functions which satisfy this equation.
I have found $f(x)=1$ and $f(x)=sqrt{x}$ work.
How can I prove more exist/ do not exist?
functional-equations
$endgroup$
$$f(x^2 * f(y)^2) = f(x^2) * f(y)$$
$$f:{mathbb Q}^+ rightarrow {mathbb Q}^+$$
$x,y in {mathbb Q}^+$
I have been given the following equation and information and am supposed to find all functions which satisfy this equation.
I have found $f(x)=1$ and $f(x)=sqrt{x}$ work.
How can I prove more exist/ do not exist?
functional-equations
functional-equations
edited Dec 12 '18 at 17:02
Bulldocarx
asked Dec 12 '18 at 16:49
BulldocarxBulldocarx
104
104
$begingroup$
Thank you for helping me with the edit.
$endgroup$
– Bulldocarx
Dec 12 '18 at 17:03
$begingroup$
I would suggest sticking with my formatting. $*$ for multiplication is nonstandard, and usually you only use the phrase "following equation" when the equation comes after that part of the text.
$endgroup$
– eyeballfrog
Dec 12 '18 at 17:05
$begingroup$
What is the standard symbol for multiplication then?
$endgroup$
– Bulldocarx
Dec 12 '18 at 17:11
$begingroup$
Multiplication is most often indicated by simple juxtaposition, or "$cdot$", or "$times$".
$endgroup$
– MPW
Dec 12 '18 at 17:13
$begingroup$
Since the square root of a rational number isn't always rational, and $fcolon mathbb Q^+rightarrowmathbb Q^+$, $fcolon xmapstosqrt x$ can't be a solution.
$endgroup$
– Philippe Malot
Dec 12 '18 at 17:38
|
show 1 more comment
$begingroup$
Thank you for helping me with the edit.
$endgroup$
– Bulldocarx
Dec 12 '18 at 17:03
$begingroup$
I would suggest sticking with my formatting. $*$ for multiplication is nonstandard, and usually you only use the phrase "following equation" when the equation comes after that part of the text.
$endgroup$
– eyeballfrog
Dec 12 '18 at 17:05
$begingroup$
What is the standard symbol for multiplication then?
$endgroup$
– Bulldocarx
Dec 12 '18 at 17:11
$begingroup$
Multiplication is most often indicated by simple juxtaposition, or "$cdot$", or "$times$".
$endgroup$
– MPW
Dec 12 '18 at 17:13
$begingroup$
Since the square root of a rational number isn't always rational, and $fcolon mathbb Q^+rightarrowmathbb Q^+$, $fcolon xmapstosqrt x$ can't be a solution.
$endgroup$
– Philippe Malot
Dec 12 '18 at 17:38
$begingroup$
Thank you for helping me with the edit.
$endgroup$
– Bulldocarx
Dec 12 '18 at 17:03
$begingroup$
Thank you for helping me with the edit.
$endgroup$
– Bulldocarx
Dec 12 '18 at 17:03
$begingroup$
I would suggest sticking with my formatting. $*$ for multiplication is nonstandard, and usually you only use the phrase "following equation" when the equation comes after that part of the text.
$endgroup$
– eyeballfrog
Dec 12 '18 at 17:05
$begingroup$
I would suggest sticking with my formatting. $*$ for multiplication is nonstandard, and usually you only use the phrase "following equation" when the equation comes after that part of the text.
$endgroup$
– eyeballfrog
Dec 12 '18 at 17:05
$begingroup$
What is the standard symbol for multiplication then?
$endgroup$
– Bulldocarx
Dec 12 '18 at 17:11
$begingroup$
What is the standard symbol for multiplication then?
$endgroup$
– Bulldocarx
Dec 12 '18 at 17:11
$begingroup$
Multiplication is most often indicated by simple juxtaposition, or "$cdot$", or "$times$".
$endgroup$
– MPW
Dec 12 '18 at 17:13
$begingroup$
Multiplication is most often indicated by simple juxtaposition, or "$cdot$", or "$times$".
$endgroup$
– MPW
Dec 12 '18 at 17:13
$begingroup$
Since the square root of a rational number isn't always rational, and $fcolon mathbb Q^+rightarrowmathbb Q^+$, $fcolon xmapstosqrt x$ can't be a solution.
$endgroup$
– Philippe Malot
Dec 12 '18 at 17:38
$begingroup$
Since the square root of a rational number isn't always rational, and $fcolon mathbb Q^+rightarrowmathbb Q^+$, $fcolon xmapstosqrt x$ can't be a solution.
$endgroup$
– Philippe Malot
Dec 12 '18 at 17:38
|
show 1 more comment
1 Answer
1
active
oldest
votes
$begingroup$
Observe, we do the following manipulation: let $x = 1$ :
$$f(f(y)^2) = f(x^2 cdot f(y)^2) = f(x^2) cdot f(y) = f(1) cdot f(y) = f(y cdot f(1)^2) $$
Case: Assume the function is left-invertible (or simply invertible), which tends to be a desirable quality for solutions of functional equations, you get:
$$f(y)^2 = y cdot f(1)^2$$
Which, since $f(y) geq 0$, becomes:
$$f(y) = f(1) sqrt{y}$$
However, in order for $f(y) in mathbb{Q}^{+}$, the only valid choice is $f(1) = 0$. That is,
$$f(y) = 0$$
Note: The zero function isn't invertible, but I added it effectively falls into the next case, as well as your discovery that $f(x) = 1$ is a solution as well.
Case: $f$ possesses no left inverse. So $f$ is not injective.
This is where everything starts to break apart. You can start going down the Rabbits hole of tossing away assumptions.
Observe, let $x = 1$ and $y = 0$, then:
$$f(1) cdot f(0) = f(f(0)^2) = f(0 cdot f(1)^2) = f(0) $$
And letting $x = 0 = y$:
$$f(0) = f(0) cdot f(0) in { 0, 1 }$$
Case: $f(0) = 1 = f(1)$. Then the equation becomes:
$$f(f(y)^2) = f(y)$$
This is simply a recurrence relation over $mathbb{Q}^{+}$. Given a value $y$, choose the value $f(y) = m in mathbb{Q}^{+}$. Then:
$$f(m^2) = m$$
So this takes care of all the values ${ x in mathbb{Q}^{+} : exists y in mathbb{Q}^{+} text{ such that } y^2 = x}$. For the remainder of the values, we can make a variety of choices. Specifically, we can let those values go to one. That is, we can have the function:
$$f(x) = begin{cases}
sqrt{x} & sqrt{x} in mathbb{Q}^{+} \
1 & text{otherwise}
end{cases}$$
But we can also try many other potential functions. You might not be able to construct a function that is continuous however. This because if you have a sequence of numbers from the right that approach $y$ that are rationally square rootable, and a sequence from the left that are rationally square rootable, you can try to choose $f(y)$ to such that
$$x_n rightarrow y leftarrow z_n$$
$$sqrt{x_n} rightarrow f(y) leftarrow sqrt{z_n}$$
But due to the incompleteness of $mathbb{Q}$, I don't remember if there is a way of choosing a satisfactory alternative $f(y)$.
Case: $f(0) = 0$. I'll let you take this from here. It's very similar to the function we found in the previous case, except $f(0) = 0$ is stated explicitly.
Edit: Totally assumed $0 in mathbb{Q}^{+}$. If not, replace with an $epsilon in mathbb{Q}^{+}$.
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
Nice start! Note that $f(y)=0$ is not a valid solution, since also $0notinBbb{Q}^+$.
$endgroup$
– Servaes
Dec 12 '18 at 19:13
$begingroup$
Note also that $x,yin mathbb{Q}^+$, so we cannot let $x=0$ or $y=0$.
$endgroup$
– mlerma54
Dec 12 '18 at 19:42
add a comment |
Your Answer
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1 Answer
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1 Answer
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$begingroup$
Observe, we do the following manipulation: let $x = 1$ :
$$f(f(y)^2) = f(x^2 cdot f(y)^2) = f(x^2) cdot f(y) = f(1) cdot f(y) = f(y cdot f(1)^2) $$
Case: Assume the function is left-invertible (or simply invertible), which tends to be a desirable quality for solutions of functional equations, you get:
$$f(y)^2 = y cdot f(1)^2$$
Which, since $f(y) geq 0$, becomes:
$$f(y) = f(1) sqrt{y}$$
However, in order for $f(y) in mathbb{Q}^{+}$, the only valid choice is $f(1) = 0$. That is,
$$f(y) = 0$$
Note: The zero function isn't invertible, but I added it effectively falls into the next case, as well as your discovery that $f(x) = 1$ is a solution as well.
Case: $f$ possesses no left inverse. So $f$ is not injective.
This is where everything starts to break apart. You can start going down the Rabbits hole of tossing away assumptions.
Observe, let $x = 1$ and $y = 0$, then:
$$f(1) cdot f(0) = f(f(0)^2) = f(0 cdot f(1)^2) = f(0) $$
And letting $x = 0 = y$:
$$f(0) = f(0) cdot f(0) in { 0, 1 }$$
Case: $f(0) = 1 = f(1)$. Then the equation becomes:
$$f(f(y)^2) = f(y)$$
This is simply a recurrence relation over $mathbb{Q}^{+}$. Given a value $y$, choose the value $f(y) = m in mathbb{Q}^{+}$. Then:
$$f(m^2) = m$$
So this takes care of all the values ${ x in mathbb{Q}^{+} : exists y in mathbb{Q}^{+} text{ such that } y^2 = x}$. For the remainder of the values, we can make a variety of choices. Specifically, we can let those values go to one. That is, we can have the function:
$$f(x) = begin{cases}
sqrt{x} & sqrt{x} in mathbb{Q}^{+} \
1 & text{otherwise}
end{cases}$$
But we can also try many other potential functions. You might not be able to construct a function that is continuous however. This because if you have a sequence of numbers from the right that approach $y$ that are rationally square rootable, and a sequence from the left that are rationally square rootable, you can try to choose $f(y)$ to such that
$$x_n rightarrow y leftarrow z_n$$
$$sqrt{x_n} rightarrow f(y) leftarrow sqrt{z_n}$$
But due to the incompleteness of $mathbb{Q}$, I don't remember if there is a way of choosing a satisfactory alternative $f(y)$.
Case: $f(0) = 0$. I'll let you take this from here. It's very similar to the function we found in the previous case, except $f(0) = 0$ is stated explicitly.
Edit: Totally assumed $0 in mathbb{Q}^{+}$. If not, replace with an $epsilon in mathbb{Q}^{+}$.
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
Nice start! Note that $f(y)=0$ is not a valid solution, since also $0notinBbb{Q}^+$.
$endgroup$
– Servaes
Dec 12 '18 at 19:13
$begingroup$
Note also that $x,yin mathbb{Q}^+$, so we cannot let $x=0$ or $y=0$.
$endgroup$
– mlerma54
Dec 12 '18 at 19:42
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Observe, we do the following manipulation: let $x = 1$ :
$$f(f(y)^2) = f(x^2 cdot f(y)^2) = f(x^2) cdot f(y) = f(1) cdot f(y) = f(y cdot f(1)^2) $$
Case: Assume the function is left-invertible (or simply invertible), which tends to be a desirable quality for solutions of functional equations, you get:
$$f(y)^2 = y cdot f(1)^2$$
Which, since $f(y) geq 0$, becomes:
$$f(y) = f(1) sqrt{y}$$
However, in order for $f(y) in mathbb{Q}^{+}$, the only valid choice is $f(1) = 0$. That is,
$$f(y) = 0$$
Note: The zero function isn't invertible, but I added it effectively falls into the next case, as well as your discovery that $f(x) = 1$ is a solution as well.
Case: $f$ possesses no left inverse. So $f$ is not injective.
This is where everything starts to break apart. You can start going down the Rabbits hole of tossing away assumptions.
Observe, let $x = 1$ and $y = 0$, then:
$$f(1) cdot f(0) = f(f(0)^2) = f(0 cdot f(1)^2) = f(0) $$
And letting $x = 0 = y$:
$$f(0) = f(0) cdot f(0) in { 0, 1 }$$
Case: $f(0) = 1 = f(1)$. Then the equation becomes:
$$f(f(y)^2) = f(y)$$
This is simply a recurrence relation over $mathbb{Q}^{+}$. Given a value $y$, choose the value $f(y) = m in mathbb{Q}^{+}$. Then:
$$f(m^2) = m$$
So this takes care of all the values ${ x in mathbb{Q}^{+} : exists y in mathbb{Q}^{+} text{ such that } y^2 = x}$. For the remainder of the values, we can make a variety of choices. Specifically, we can let those values go to one. That is, we can have the function:
$$f(x) = begin{cases}
sqrt{x} & sqrt{x} in mathbb{Q}^{+} \
1 & text{otherwise}
end{cases}$$
But we can also try many other potential functions. You might not be able to construct a function that is continuous however. This because if you have a sequence of numbers from the right that approach $y$ that are rationally square rootable, and a sequence from the left that are rationally square rootable, you can try to choose $f(y)$ to such that
$$x_n rightarrow y leftarrow z_n$$
$$sqrt{x_n} rightarrow f(y) leftarrow sqrt{z_n}$$
But due to the incompleteness of $mathbb{Q}$, I don't remember if there is a way of choosing a satisfactory alternative $f(y)$.
Case: $f(0) = 0$. I'll let you take this from here. It's very similar to the function we found in the previous case, except $f(0) = 0$ is stated explicitly.
Edit: Totally assumed $0 in mathbb{Q}^{+}$. If not, replace with an $epsilon in mathbb{Q}^{+}$.
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
Nice start! Note that $f(y)=0$ is not a valid solution, since also $0notinBbb{Q}^+$.
$endgroup$
– Servaes
Dec 12 '18 at 19:13
$begingroup$
Note also that $x,yin mathbb{Q}^+$, so we cannot let $x=0$ or $y=0$.
$endgroup$
– mlerma54
Dec 12 '18 at 19:42
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Observe, we do the following manipulation: let $x = 1$ :
$$f(f(y)^2) = f(x^2 cdot f(y)^2) = f(x^2) cdot f(y) = f(1) cdot f(y) = f(y cdot f(1)^2) $$
Case: Assume the function is left-invertible (or simply invertible), which tends to be a desirable quality for solutions of functional equations, you get:
$$f(y)^2 = y cdot f(1)^2$$
Which, since $f(y) geq 0$, becomes:
$$f(y) = f(1) sqrt{y}$$
However, in order for $f(y) in mathbb{Q}^{+}$, the only valid choice is $f(1) = 0$. That is,
$$f(y) = 0$$
Note: The zero function isn't invertible, but I added it effectively falls into the next case, as well as your discovery that $f(x) = 1$ is a solution as well.
Case: $f$ possesses no left inverse. So $f$ is not injective.
This is where everything starts to break apart. You can start going down the Rabbits hole of tossing away assumptions.
Observe, let $x = 1$ and $y = 0$, then:
$$f(1) cdot f(0) = f(f(0)^2) = f(0 cdot f(1)^2) = f(0) $$
And letting $x = 0 = y$:
$$f(0) = f(0) cdot f(0) in { 0, 1 }$$
Case: $f(0) = 1 = f(1)$. Then the equation becomes:
$$f(f(y)^2) = f(y)$$
This is simply a recurrence relation over $mathbb{Q}^{+}$. Given a value $y$, choose the value $f(y) = m in mathbb{Q}^{+}$. Then:
$$f(m^2) = m$$
So this takes care of all the values ${ x in mathbb{Q}^{+} : exists y in mathbb{Q}^{+} text{ such that } y^2 = x}$. For the remainder of the values, we can make a variety of choices. Specifically, we can let those values go to one. That is, we can have the function:
$$f(x) = begin{cases}
sqrt{x} & sqrt{x} in mathbb{Q}^{+} \
1 & text{otherwise}
end{cases}$$
But we can also try many other potential functions. You might not be able to construct a function that is continuous however. This because if you have a sequence of numbers from the right that approach $y$ that are rationally square rootable, and a sequence from the left that are rationally square rootable, you can try to choose $f(y)$ to such that
$$x_n rightarrow y leftarrow z_n$$
$$sqrt{x_n} rightarrow f(y) leftarrow sqrt{z_n}$$
But due to the incompleteness of $mathbb{Q}$, I don't remember if there is a way of choosing a satisfactory alternative $f(y)$.
Case: $f(0) = 0$. I'll let you take this from here. It's very similar to the function we found in the previous case, except $f(0) = 0$ is stated explicitly.
Edit: Totally assumed $0 in mathbb{Q}^{+}$. If not, replace with an $epsilon in mathbb{Q}^{+}$.
$endgroup$
Observe, we do the following manipulation: let $x = 1$ :
$$f(f(y)^2) = f(x^2 cdot f(y)^2) = f(x^2) cdot f(y) = f(1) cdot f(y) = f(y cdot f(1)^2) $$
Case: Assume the function is left-invertible (or simply invertible), which tends to be a desirable quality for solutions of functional equations, you get:
$$f(y)^2 = y cdot f(1)^2$$
Which, since $f(y) geq 0$, becomes:
$$f(y) = f(1) sqrt{y}$$
However, in order for $f(y) in mathbb{Q}^{+}$, the only valid choice is $f(1) = 0$. That is,
$$f(y) = 0$$
Note: The zero function isn't invertible, but I added it effectively falls into the next case, as well as your discovery that $f(x) = 1$ is a solution as well.
Case: $f$ possesses no left inverse. So $f$ is not injective.
This is where everything starts to break apart. You can start going down the Rabbits hole of tossing away assumptions.
Observe, let $x = 1$ and $y = 0$, then:
$$f(1) cdot f(0) = f(f(0)^2) = f(0 cdot f(1)^2) = f(0) $$
And letting $x = 0 = y$:
$$f(0) = f(0) cdot f(0) in { 0, 1 }$$
Case: $f(0) = 1 = f(1)$. Then the equation becomes:
$$f(f(y)^2) = f(y)$$
This is simply a recurrence relation over $mathbb{Q}^{+}$. Given a value $y$, choose the value $f(y) = m in mathbb{Q}^{+}$. Then:
$$f(m^2) = m$$
So this takes care of all the values ${ x in mathbb{Q}^{+} : exists y in mathbb{Q}^{+} text{ such that } y^2 = x}$. For the remainder of the values, we can make a variety of choices. Specifically, we can let those values go to one. That is, we can have the function:
$$f(x) = begin{cases}
sqrt{x} & sqrt{x} in mathbb{Q}^{+} \
1 & text{otherwise}
end{cases}$$
But we can also try many other potential functions. You might not be able to construct a function that is continuous however. This because if you have a sequence of numbers from the right that approach $y$ that are rationally square rootable, and a sequence from the left that are rationally square rootable, you can try to choose $f(y)$ to such that
$$x_n rightarrow y leftarrow z_n$$
$$sqrt{x_n} rightarrow f(y) leftarrow sqrt{z_n}$$
But due to the incompleteness of $mathbb{Q}$, I don't remember if there is a way of choosing a satisfactory alternative $f(y)$.
Case: $f(0) = 0$. I'll let you take this from here. It's very similar to the function we found in the previous case, except $f(0) = 0$ is stated explicitly.
Edit: Totally assumed $0 in mathbb{Q}^{+}$. If not, replace with an $epsilon in mathbb{Q}^{+}$.
edited Dec 12 '18 at 20:03
answered Dec 12 '18 at 18:38
gdepaulgdepaul
613
613
$begingroup$
Nice start! Note that $f(y)=0$ is not a valid solution, since also $0notinBbb{Q}^+$.
$endgroup$
– Servaes
Dec 12 '18 at 19:13
$begingroup$
Note also that $x,yin mathbb{Q}^+$, so we cannot let $x=0$ or $y=0$.
$endgroup$
– mlerma54
Dec 12 '18 at 19:42
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Nice start! Note that $f(y)=0$ is not a valid solution, since also $0notinBbb{Q}^+$.
$endgroup$
– Servaes
Dec 12 '18 at 19:13
$begingroup$
Note also that $x,yin mathbb{Q}^+$, so we cannot let $x=0$ or $y=0$.
$endgroup$
– mlerma54
Dec 12 '18 at 19:42
$begingroup$
Nice start! Note that $f(y)=0$ is not a valid solution, since also $0notinBbb{Q}^+$.
$endgroup$
– Servaes
Dec 12 '18 at 19:13
$begingroup$
Nice start! Note that $f(y)=0$ is not a valid solution, since also $0notinBbb{Q}^+$.
$endgroup$
– Servaes
Dec 12 '18 at 19:13
$begingroup$
Note also that $x,yin mathbb{Q}^+$, so we cannot let $x=0$ or $y=0$.
$endgroup$
– mlerma54
Dec 12 '18 at 19:42
$begingroup$
Note also that $x,yin mathbb{Q}^+$, so we cannot let $x=0$ or $y=0$.
$endgroup$
– mlerma54
Dec 12 '18 at 19:42
add a comment |
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$begingroup$
Thank you for helping me with the edit.
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– Bulldocarx
Dec 12 '18 at 17:03
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I would suggest sticking with my formatting. $*$ for multiplication is nonstandard, and usually you only use the phrase "following equation" when the equation comes after that part of the text.
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– eyeballfrog
Dec 12 '18 at 17:05
$begingroup$
What is the standard symbol for multiplication then?
$endgroup$
– Bulldocarx
Dec 12 '18 at 17:11
$begingroup$
Multiplication is most often indicated by simple juxtaposition, or "$cdot$", or "$times$".
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– MPW
Dec 12 '18 at 17:13
$begingroup$
Since the square root of a rational number isn't always rational, and $fcolon mathbb Q^+rightarrowmathbb Q^+$, $fcolon xmapstosqrt x$ can't be a solution.
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– Philippe Malot
Dec 12 '18 at 17:38