Is the orthogonal polar factor the unique submersion satisfying an orthogonality relation?
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The orthogonal polar factor map $O:GLp to SO$, defined by requiring $A=
O(A)P$ for some symmetric positive-definite $P$, is a smooth submersion satisfying $A perp T_{O(A)}SO$.
Question: Let $F:GLp to SO$ be a smooth submersion satisfying $A perp T_{F(A)}SO$. Does $F(A)=Q cdot O(A)$ or $F(A)= O(A) cdot Q$ for some $Q in SO$?
Edit: An equivalent reformulation of the question:
$A perp T_{F(A)}SO=F(A)skew iff A in (F(A)skew)^perp=F(A)(skew)^perp=F(A)sym$. Thus, if we define $S(A)=F(A)^{-1}A$, $S:GLp to sym$ is smooth.
So, a submersion $F:GLp to SO$ satisfies the orthogonality requirement if and only if there exist a smooth map $S:GLp to sym$, satisfying $A=F(A)S(A)$.
Using the polar decomposition, we have $O(A)P(A)=A=F(A)S(A)$, so $S(A)=Q(A)P(A)$ where $Q(A)=F(A)^{-1}O(A)$. We want to prove that $Q:GLp to SO$ is constant. I will now prove that for matrices $A$ having distinct singular values, $Q(A)$ can obtain a finite number of values. (The set of admissible values depends on $A$). I am quite sure this fact can be used to force $Q$ to be constant or at least something very constrained, but I am not sure how. Here is the proof:
Since $S(A)=Q(A)P(A) in sym$ , we have $PQ^T=(QP)^T=S^T=S=QP$. By orthogonally diagonalizing $P$, we can write $P=VSigma V^T$, so we now have
$$ VSigma V^T Q^T=QVSigma V^T Rightarrow Sigma V^T Q^TV=V^TQVSigma. $$
Setting $tilde Q=V^TQV$ we thus have $ Sigma tilde Q^T= tilde Q Sigma$ where $tilde Q in SO$. Since we assumed that the singular values of $A$ are distinct (i.e. the diagonal entries of $Sigma$ are distinct), an explicit calculation now shows that $ tilde Q$ must be diagonal. Since it is also orthogonal, we must have $tilde Q_{ii}=pm 1$ for all $i$. So, $tilde Q$ can assume a finite set of values; (which implies the same thing for $ Q$).
Comment: I am not sure for which $Q in SO$ $F(A)=Qcdot O(A)$ satisfies the requirement. A necessary condition is $Q^2=Id$; I don't know if it's sufficient.
Indeed, let $Q in SO$, and set $F(A)=Qcdot O(A)$. Then $ A perp T_{F(A)}SO=T_{Qcdot O(A)}SO=QT_{O(A)}SO,$ so for $A=Id$ we have $ Id perp Qskew Rightarrow Q^T perp skew Rightarrow Q^T in sym Rightarrow Q^2=Id$.
differential-geometry lie-groups riemannian-geometry matrix-decomposition orthogonal-matrices
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add a comment |
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$newcommand{psym}{text{Psym}_n}$
$newcommand{sym}{text{sym}}$
$newcommand{Sym}{operatorname{Sym}}$
$newcommand{Skew}{operatorname{Skew}}$
$renewcommand{skew}{operatorname{skew}}$
$newcommand{GLp}{operatorname{GL}_n^+}$
$newcommand{SO}{operatorname{SO}_n}$
The orthogonal polar factor map $O:GLp to SO$, defined by requiring $A=
O(A)P$ for some symmetric positive-definite $P$, is a smooth submersion satisfying $A perp T_{O(A)}SO$.
Question: Let $F:GLp to SO$ be a smooth submersion satisfying $A perp T_{F(A)}SO$. Does $F(A)=Q cdot O(A)$ or $F(A)= O(A) cdot Q$ for some $Q in SO$?
Edit: An equivalent reformulation of the question:
$A perp T_{F(A)}SO=F(A)skew iff A in (F(A)skew)^perp=F(A)(skew)^perp=F(A)sym$. Thus, if we define $S(A)=F(A)^{-1}A$, $S:GLp to sym$ is smooth.
So, a submersion $F:GLp to SO$ satisfies the orthogonality requirement if and only if there exist a smooth map $S:GLp to sym$, satisfying $A=F(A)S(A)$.
Using the polar decomposition, we have $O(A)P(A)=A=F(A)S(A)$, so $S(A)=Q(A)P(A)$ where $Q(A)=F(A)^{-1}O(A)$. We want to prove that $Q:GLp to SO$ is constant. I will now prove that for matrices $A$ having distinct singular values, $Q(A)$ can obtain a finite number of values. (The set of admissible values depends on $A$). I am quite sure this fact can be used to force $Q$ to be constant or at least something very constrained, but I am not sure how. Here is the proof:
Since $S(A)=Q(A)P(A) in sym$ , we have $PQ^T=(QP)^T=S^T=S=QP$. By orthogonally diagonalizing $P$, we can write $P=VSigma V^T$, so we now have
$$ VSigma V^T Q^T=QVSigma V^T Rightarrow Sigma V^T Q^TV=V^TQVSigma. $$
Setting $tilde Q=V^TQV$ we thus have $ Sigma tilde Q^T= tilde Q Sigma$ where $tilde Q in SO$. Since we assumed that the singular values of $A$ are distinct (i.e. the diagonal entries of $Sigma$ are distinct), an explicit calculation now shows that $ tilde Q$ must be diagonal. Since it is also orthogonal, we must have $tilde Q_{ii}=pm 1$ for all $i$. So, $tilde Q$ can assume a finite set of values; (which implies the same thing for $ Q$).
Comment: I am not sure for which $Q in SO$ $F(A)=Qcdot O(A)$ satisfies the requirement. A necessary condition is $Q^2=Id$; I don't know if it's sufficient.
Indeed, let $Q in SO$, and set $F(A)=Qcdot O(A)$. Then $ A perp T_{F(A)}SO=T_{Qcdot O(A)}SO=QT_{O(A)}SO,$ so for $A=Id$ we have $ Id perp Qskew Rightarrow Q^T perp skew Rightarrow Q^T in sym Rightarrow Q^2=Id$.
differential-geometry lie-groups riemannian-geometry matrix-decomposition orthogonal-matrices
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How about the left orthogonal polar decomposition $O'$ defined by $A=Pcdot O'(A)$? I.e. $O'(A)=O(A^T)^T$
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– Dap
Dec 30 '18 at 7:32
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The left orthogonal polar equals to the right orthogonal polar; this is not trivial, but true. (This can be seen for instance by writing $A=USigma V^T$ , i.e. in terms of its SVD).
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– Asaf Shachar
Dec 30 '18 at 10:42
add a comment |
$begingroup$
$newcommand{psym}{text{Psym}_n}$
$newcommand{sym}{text{sym}}$
$newcommand{Sym}{operatorname{Sym}}$
$newcommand{Skew}{operatorname{Skew}}$
$renewcommand{skew}{operatorname{skew}}$
$newcommand{GLp}{operatorname{GL}_n^+}$
$newcommand{SO}{operatorname{SO}_n}$
The orthogonal polar factor map $O:GLp to SO$, defined by requiring $A=
O(A)P$ for some symmetric positive-definite $P$, is a smooth submersion satisfying $A perp T_{O(A)}SO$.
Question: Let $F:GLp to SO$ be a smooth submersion satisfying $A perp T_{F(A)}SO$. Does $F(A)=Q cdot O(A)$ or $F(A)= O(A) cdot Q$ for some $Q in SO$?
Edit: An equivalent reformulation of the question:
$A perp T_{F(A)}SO=F(A)skew iff A in (F(A)skew)^perp=F(A)(skew)^perp=F(A)sym$. Thus, if we define $S(A)=F(A)^{-1}A$, $S:GLp to sym$ is smooth.
So, a submersion $F:GLp to SO$ satisfies the orthogonality requirement if and only if there exist a smooth map $S:GLp to sym$, satisfying $A=F(A)S(A)$.
Using the polar decomposition, we have $O(A)P(A)=A=F(A)S(A)$, so $S(A)=Q(A)P(A)$ where $Q(A)=F(A)^{-1}O(A)$. We want to prove that $Q:GLp to SO$ is constant. I will now prove that for matrices $A$ having distinct singular values, $Q(A)$ can obtain a finite number of values. (The set of admissible values depends on $A$). I am quite sure this fact can be used to force $Q$ to be constant or at least something very constrained, but I am not sure how. Here is the proof:
Since $S(A)=Q(A)P(A) in sym$ , we have $PQ^T=(QP)^T=S^T=S=QP$. By orthogonally diagonalizing $P$, we can write $P=VSigma V^T$, so we now have
$$ VSigma V^T Q^T=QVSigma V^T Rightarrow Sigma V^T Q^TV=V^TQVSigma. $$
Setting $tilde Q=V^TQV$ we thus have $ Sigma tilde Q^T= tilde Q Sigma$ where $tilde Q in SO$. Since we assumed that the singular values of $A$ are distinct (i.e. the diagonal entries of $Sigma$ are distinct), an explicit calculation now shows that $ tilde Q$ must be diagonal. Since it is also orthogonal, we must have $tilde Q_{ii}=pm 1$ for all $i$. So, $tilde Q$ can assume a finite set of values; (which implies the same thing for $ Q$).
Comment: I am not sure for which $Q in SO$ $F(A)=Qcdot O(A)$ satisfies the requirement. A necessary condition is $Q^2=Id$; I don't know if it's sufficient.
Indeed, let $Q in SO$, and set $F(A)=Qcdot O(A)$. Then $ A perp T_{F(A)}SO=T_{Qcdot O(A)}SO=QT_{O(A)}SO,$ so for $A=Id$ we have $ Id perp Qskew Rightarrow Q^T perp skew Rightarrow Q^T in sym Rightarrow Q^2=Id$.
differential-geometry lie-groups riemannian-geometry matrix-decomposition orthogonal-matrices
$endgroup$
$newcommand{psym}{text{Psym}_n}$
$newcommand{sym}{text{sym}}$
$newcommand{Sym}{operatorname{Sym}}$
$newcommand{Skew}{operatorname{Skew}}$
$renewcommand{skew}{operatorname{skew}}$
$newcommand{GLp}{operatorname{GL}_n^+}$
$newcommand{SO}{operatorname{SO}_n}$
The orthogonal polar factor map $O:GLp to SO$, defined by requiring $A=
O(A)P$ for some symmetric positive-definite $P$, is a smooth submersion satisfying $A perp T_{O(A)}SO$.
Question: Let $F:GLp to SO$ be a smooth submersion satisfying $A perp T_{F(A)}SO$. Does $F(A)=Q cdot O(A)$ or $F(A)= O(A) cdot Q$ for some $Q in SO$?
Edit: An equivalent reformulation of the question:
$A perp T_{F(A)}SO=F(A)skew iff A in (F(A)skew)^perp=F(A)(skew)^perp=F(A)sym$. Thus, if we define $S(A)=F(A)^{-1}A$, $S:GLp to sym$ is smooth.
So, a submersion $F:GLp to SO$ satisfies the orthogonality requirement if and only if there exist a smooth map $S:GLp to sym$, satisfying $A=F(A)S(A)$.
Using the polar decomposition, we have $O(A)P(A)=A=F(A)S(A)$, so $S(A)=Q(A)P(A)$ where $Q(A)=F(A)^{-1}O(A)$. We want to prove that $Q:GLp to SO$ is constant. I will now prove that for matrices $A$ having distinct singular values, $Q(A)$ can obtain a finite number of values. (The set of admissible values depends on $A$). I am quite sure this fact can be used to force $Q$ to be constant or at least something very constrained, but I am not sure how. Here is the proof:
Since $S(A)=Q(A)P(A) in sym$ , we have $PQ^T=(QP)^T=S^T=S=QP$. By orthogonally diagonalizing $P$, we can write $P=VSigma V^T$, so we now have
$$ VSigma V^T Q^T=QVSigma V^T Rightarrow Sigma V^T Q^TV=V^TQVSigma. $$
Setting $tilde Q=V^TQV$ we thus have $ Sigma tilde Q^T= tilde Q Sigma$ where $tilde Q in SO$. Since we assumed that the singular values of $A$ are distinct (i.e. the diagonal entries of $Sigma$ are distinct), an explicit calculation now shows that $ tilde Q$ must be diagonal. Since it is also orthogonal, we must have $tilde Q_{ii}=pm 1$ for all $i$. So, $tilde Q$ can assume a finite set of values; (which implies the same thing for $ Q$).
Comment: I am not sure for which $Q in SO$ $F(A)=Qcdot O(A)$ satisfies the requirement. A necessary condition is $Q^2=Id$; I don't know if it's sufficient.
Indeed, let $Q in SO$, and set $F(A)=Qcdot O(A)$. Then $ A perp T_{F(A)}SO=T_{Qcdot O(A)}SO=QT_{O(A)}SO,$ so for $A=Id$ we have $ Id perp Qskew Rightarrow Q^T perp skew Rightarrow Q^T in sym Rightarrow Q^2=Id$.
differential-geometry lie-groups riemannian-geometry matrix-decomposition orthogonal-matrices
differential-geometry lie-groups riemannian-geometry matrix-decomposition orthogonal-matrices
edited Dec 30 '18 at 11:39
Asaf Shachar
asked Dec 23 '18 at 8:30
Asaf ShacharAsaf Shachar
5,71731141
5,71731141
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How about the left orthogonal polar decomposition $O'$ defined by $A=Pcdot O'(A)$? I.e. $O'(A)=O(A^T)^T$
$endgroup$
– Dap
Dec 30 '18 at 7:32
$begingroup$
The left orthogonal polar equals to the right orthogonal polar; this is not trivial, but true. (This can be seen for instance by writing $A=USigma V^T$ , i.e. in terms of its SVD).
$endgroup$
– Asaf Shachar
Dec 30 '18 at 10:42
add a comment |
$begingroup$
How about the left orthogonal polar decomposition $O'$ defined by $A=Pcdot O'(A)$? I.e. $O'(A)=O(A^T)^T$
$endgroup$
– Dap
Dec 30 '18 at 7:32
$begingroup$
The left orthogonal polar equals to the right orthogonal polar; this is not trivial, but true. (This can be seen for instance by writing $A=USigma V^T$ , i.e. in terms of its SVD).
$endgroup$
– Asaf Shachar
Dec 30 '18 at 10:42
$begingroup$
How about the left orthogonal polar decomposition $O'$ defined by $A=Pcdot O'(A)$? I.e. $O'(A)=O(A^T)^T$
$endgroup$
– Dap
Dec 30 '18 at 7:32
$begingroup$
How about the left orthogonal polar decomposition $O'$ defined by $A=Pcdot O'(A)$? I.e. $O'(A)=O(A^T)^T$
$endgroup$
– Dap
Dec 30 '18 at 7:32
$begingroup$
The left orthogonal polar equals to the right orthogonal polar; this is not trivial, but true. (This can be seen for instance by writing $A=USigma V^T$ , i.e. in terms of its SVD).
$endgroup$
– Asaf Shachar
Dec 30 '18 at 10:42
$begingroup$
The left orthogonal polar equals to the right orthogonal polar; this is not trivial, but true. (This can be seen for instance by writing $A=USigma V^T$ , i.e. in terms of its SVD).
$endgroup$
– Asaf Shachar
Dec 30 '18 at 10:42
add a comment |
1 Answer
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I will use the notation from the question, $O(A)P(A)=A=F(A)S(A)$ and $S(A)=Q(A)P(A).$
The only possibilities are $Q(A)=I$ everywhere and $Q(A)=-I$ everywhere, with $-I$ only valid $n$ is even.
To show this I will first argue that $Q(I)=pm I.$
The matrices $P(A),Q(A),S(A)$ all commute: diagonalize $S$ as $VSigma V^T$ with $Vin SO_n$ (possibly a different $V$ to the one in the question), then $P(A)=V|Sigma| V^T$ and $Q(A)=Voperatorname{sgn}(Sigma) V^T$ where $|cdot|$ and $operatorname{sgn}$ are applied entrywise to the diagonal elements. This can be seen from the expression $FS=(FVoperatorname{sgn}(Sigma)V^T)(V|Sigma|V^T)=OP$ and uniqueness of orthogonal polar decomposition.
For the case $n=2,$ we can use the above expression for $Q(A)$ to get $Q(A)^2=I.$ And $Q(A)in SO_n.$ This forces $Q(A)=pm I.$
Let $D=D(epsilon)=operatorname{diag}(1+epsilon,1+2epsilon,dots,1+nepsilon),$ and let $U$ be an arbitrary element of $SO_n.$ Since $Q(UDU^T)$ commutes with $P(UDU^T)=UDU^T,$ the conjugate $U^T Q(UDU^T) U$ commutes with $D.$ Any matrix $M$ that commutes with $D$ must be diagonal because $(DM-MD)_{ij}=M_{ij}(D_{ii}-D_{jj})=0$ forces $M_{ij}=0$ for $ineq j.$ Taking $epsilonto 0$ and applying continuity of $Dmapsto U^T Q(UDU^T) U$ we get that $U^T Q(I) U$ is diagonal. This restricts $U^T Q(I) U$ to a discrete set $operatorname{diag}(pm1,dots,pm 1).$ Since $SO_n$ is connected, $Umapsto U^T Q(I) U$ is constantly $Q(I).$ In other words $Q(I)$ commutes with every special orthogonal matrix, but for $n>2$ that forces $Q(I)=pm I$ as claimed.
From the above expression for $Q(A)$ it is clear that $Q(A)$ has eigenvalues $pm 1,$ which means the trace is a discrete invariant and must therefore be constant. If $Q(I)=I$ then the trace is $n$ and $Q(A)=I$ everywhere, and if $Q(I)=-I$ then the trace is $-n$ and $Q(A)=-I$ everywhere.
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wow! This is an amazing solution, really. Do you have any insight regarding how did you think about this "commutation approach"? (i.e. $P,Q,S$ commute and the exploitation of commutation with rotations). Also, two questions about your solution: (1) The reasoning that $U^TQ(UDU^T)U$ commutes with $D$ implies it's diagonal is the same as in my answer, right? i.e. it is because $D_{epsilon}$ has distinct values?
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– Asaf Shachar
Jan 1 at 16:17
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(2) I think we need to address in a special manner the case $n=2$. Since then a matrix which commutes with all rotations does not need to be $pm id$. (it could be any rotation). So, this case is still open.
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– Asaf Shachar
Jan 1 at 16:17
$begingroup$
By the way, we also need to be a bit careful about applying continuity argument on the trace here: It is true that the mp $A to text{trace}(Q(A))$ is continuous. However, I only proved that the eigenvalues of $Q(A)$ are $pm1$ when $A$ has distinct singular values. So, to conclude $text{trace}(Q(A))$ is constant, we need to know that this set is connected and dense. I am not sure about the connectedness. I asked about this here: math.stackexchange.com/questions/3058644/…
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– Asaf Shachar
Jan 1 at 16:56
1
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@AsafShachar: I've edited to clarified these points, but to summarize: (1) yes, that relies on having distinct values on the diagonal (2) $Q^2=I$ and $Qin SO_2$ forces $Q=pm I$ (3) I believe I can have shown $Q(A)^2=I$ for all $A$
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– Dap
Jan 2 at 8:07
1
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I'm just using commutation as a formal way to talk about matrices that would be simultaneously diagonal in a basis where $P-I$ is diagonal - but this basis depends on $A$ (and might not be able to be chosen continuously in $A$)
$endgroup$
– Dap
Jan 2 at 8:11
add a comment |
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$begingroup$
I will use the notation from the question, $O(A)P(A)=A=F(A)S(A)$ and $S(A)=Q(A)P(A).$
The only possibilities are $Q(A)=I$ everywhere and $Q(A)=-I$ everywhere, with $-I$ only valid $n$ is even.
To show this I will first argue that $Q(I)=pm I.$
The matrices $P(A),Q(A),S(A)$ all commute: diagonalize $S$ as $VSigma V^T$ with $Vin SO_n$ (possibly a different $V$ to the one in the question), then $P(A)=V|Sigma| V^T$ and $Q(A)=Voperatorname{sgn}(Sigma) V^T$ where $|cdot|$ and $operatorname{sgn}$ are applied entrywise to the diagonal elements. This can be seen from the expression $FS=(FVoperatorname{sgn}(Sigma)V^T)(V|Sigma|V^T)=OP$ and uniqueness of orthogonal polar decomposition.
For the case $n=2,$ we can use the above expression for $Q(A)$ to get $Q(A)^2=I.$ And $Q(A)in SO_n.$ This forces $Q(A)=pm I.$
Let $D=D(epsilon)=operatorname{diag}(1+epsilon,1+2epsilon,dots,1+nepsilon),$ and let $U$ be an arbitrary element of $SO_n.$ Since $Q(UDU^T)$ commutes with $P(UDU^T)=UDU^T,$ the conjugate $U^T Q(UDU^T) U$ commutes with $D.$ Any matrix $M$ that commutes with $D$ must be diagonal because $(DM-MD)_{ij}=M_{ij}(D_{ii}-D_{jj})=0$ forces $M_{ij}=0$ for $ineq j.$ Taking $epsilonto 0$ and applying continuity of $Dmapsto U^T Q(UDU^T) U$ we get that $U^T Q(I) U$ is diagonal. This restricts $U^T Q(I) U$ to a discrete set $operatorname{diag}(pm1,dots,pm 1).$ Since $SO_n$ is connected, $Umapsto U^T Q(I) U$ is constantly $Q(I).$ In other words $Q(I)$ commutes with every special orthogonal matrix, but for $n>2$ that forces $Q(I)=pm I$ as claimed.
From the above expression for $Q(A)$ it is clear that $Q(A)$ has eigenvalues $pm 1,$ which means the trace is a discrete invariant and must therefore be constant. If $Q(I)=I$ then the trace is $n$ and $Q(A)=I$ everywhere, and if $Q(I)=-I$ then the trace is $-n$ and $Q(A)=-I$ everywhere.
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
wow! This is an amazing solution, really. Do you have any insight regarding how did you think about this "commutation approach"? (i.e. $P,Q,S$ commute and the exploitation of commutation with rotations). Also, two questions about your solution: (1) The reasoning that $U^TQ(UDU^T)U$ commutes with $D$ implies it's diagonal is the same as in my answer, right? i.e. it is because $D_{epsilon}$ has distinct values?
$endgroup$
– Asaf Shachar
Jan 1 at 16:17
$begingroup$
(2) I think we need to address in a special manner the case $n=2$. Since then a matrix which commutes with all rotations does not need to be $pm id$. (it could be any rotation). So, this case is still open.
$endgroup$
– Asaf Shachar
Jan 1 at 16:17
$begingroup$
By the way, we also need to be a bit careful about applying continuity argument on the trace here: It is true that the mp $A to text{trace}(Q(A))$ is continuous. However, I only proved that the eigenvalues of $Q(A)$ are $pm1$ when $A$ has distinct singular values. So, to conclude $text{trace}(Q(A))$ is constant, we need to know that this set is connected and dense. I am not sure about the connectedness. I asked about this here: math.stackexchange.com/questions/3058644/…
$endgroup$
– Asaf Shachar
Jan 1 at 16:56
1
$begingroup$
@AsafShachar: I've edited to clarified these points, but to summarize: (1) yes, that relies on having distinct values on the diagonal (2) $Q^2=I$ and $Qin SO_2$ forces $Q=pm I$ (3) I believe I can have shown $Q(A)^2=I$ for all $A$
$endgroup$
– Dap
Jan 2 at 8:07
1
$begingroup$
I'm just using commutation as a formal way to talk about matrices that would be simultaneously diagonal in a basis where $P-I$ is diagonal - but this basis depends on $A$ (and might not be able to be chosen continuously in $A$)
$endgroup$
– Dap
Jan 2 at 8:11
add a comment |
$begingroup$
I will use the notation from the question, $O(A)P(A)=A=F(A)S(A)$ and $S(A)=Q(A)P(A).$
The only possibilities are $Q(A)=I$ everywhere and $Q(A)=-I$ everywhere, with $-I$ only valid $n$ is even.
To show this I will first argue that $Q(I)=pm I.$
The matrices $P(A),Q(A),S(A)$ all commute: diagonalize $S$ as $VSigma V^T$ with $Vin SO_n$ (possibly a different $V$ to the one in the question), then $P(A)=V|Sigma| V^T$ and $Q(A)=Voperatorname{sgn}(Sigma) V^T$ where $|cdot|$ and $operatorname{sgn}$ are applied entrywise to the diagonal elements. This can be seen from the expression $FS=(FVoperatorname{sgn}(Sigma)V^T)(V|Sigma|V^T)=OP$ and uniqueness of orthogonal polar decomposition.
For the case $n=2,$ we can use the above expression for $Q(A)$ to get $Q(A)^2=I.$ And $Q(A)in SO_n.$ This forces $Q(A)=pm I.$
Let $D=D(epsilon)=operatorname{diag}(1+epsilon,1+2epsilon,dots,1+nepsilon),$ and let $U$ be an arbitrary element of $SO_n.$ Since $Q(UDU^T)$ commutes with $P(UDU^T)=UDU^T,$ the conjugate $U^T Q(UDU^T) U$ commutes with $D.$ Any matrix $M$ that commutes with $D$ must be diagonal because $(DM-MD)_{ij}=M_{ij}(D_{ii}-D_{jj})=0$ forces $M_{ij}=0$ for $ineq j.$ Taking $epsilonto 0$ and applying continuity of $Dmapsto U^T Q(UDU^T) U$ we get that $U^T Q(I) U$ is diagonal. This restricts $U^T Q(I) U$ to a discrete set $operatorname{diag}(pm1,dots,pm 1).$ Since $SO_n$ is connected, $Umapsto U^T Q(I) U$ is constantly $Q(I).$ In other words $Q(I)$ commutes with every special orthogonal matrix, but for $n>2$ that forces $Q(I)=pm I$ as claimed.
From the above expression for $Q(A)$ it is clear that $Q(A)$ has eigenvalues $pm 1,$ which means the trace is a discrete invariant and must therefore be constant. If $Q(I)=I$ then the trace is $n$ and $Q(A)=I$ everywhere, and if $Q(I)=-I$ then the trace is $-n$ and $Q(A)=-I$ everywhere.
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
wow! This is an amazing solution, really. Do you have any insight regarding how did you think about this "commutation approach"? (i.e. $P,Q,S$ commute and the exploitation of commutation with rotations). Also, two questions about your solution: (1) The reasoning that $U^TQ(UDU^T)U$ commutes with $D$ implies it's diagonal is the same as in my answer, right? i.e. it is because $D_{epsilon}$ has distinct values?
$endgroup$
– Asaf Shachar
Jan 1 at 16:17
$begingroup$
(2) I think we need to address in a special manner the case $n=2$. Since then a matrix which commutes with all rotations does not need to be $pm id$. (it could be any rotation). So, this case is still open.
$endgroup$
– Asaf Shachar
Jan 1 at 16:17
$begingroup$
By the way, we also need to be a bit careful about applying continuity argument on the trace here: It is true that the mp $A to text{trace}(Q(A))$ is continuous. However, I only proved that the eigenvalues of $Q(A)$ are $pm1$ when $A$ has distinct singular values. So, to conclude $text{trace}(Q(A))$ is constant, we need to know that this set is connected and dense. I am not sure about the connectedness. I asked about this here: math.stackexchange.com/questions/3058644/…
$endgroup$
– Asaf Shachar
Jan 1 at 16:56
1
$begingroup$
@AsafShachar: I've edited to clarified these points, but to summarize: (1) yes, that relies on having distinct values on the diagonal (2) $Q^2=I$ and $Qin SO_2$ forces $Q=pm I$ (3) I believe I can have shown $Q(A)^2=I$ for all $A$
$endgroup$
– Dap
Jan 2 at 8:07
1
$begingroup$
I'm just using commutation as a formal way to talk about matrices that would be simultaneously diagonal in a basis where $P-I$ is diagonal - but this basis depends on $A$ (and might not be able to be chosen continuously in $A$)
$endgroup$
– Dap
Jan 2 at 8:11
add a comment |
$begingroup$
I will use the notation from the question, $O(A)P(A)=A=F(A)S(A)$ and $S(A)=Q(A)P(A).$
The only possibilities are $Q(A)=I$ everywhere and $Q(A)=-I$ everywhere, with $-I$ only valid $n$ is even.
To show this I will first argue that $Q(I)=pm I.$
The matrices $P(A),Q(A),S(A)$ all commute: diagonalize $S$ as $VSigma V^T$ with $Vin SO_n$ (possibly a different $V$ to the one in the question), then $P(A)=V|Sigma| V^T$ and $Q(A)=Voperatorname{sgn}(Sigma) V^T$ where $|cdot|$ and $operatorname{sgn}$ are applied entrywise to the diagonal elements. This can be seen from the expression $FS=(FVoperatorname{sgn}(Sigma)V^T)(V|Sigma|V^T)=OP$ and uniqueness of orthogonal polar decomposition.
For the case $n=2,$ we can use the above expression for $Q(A)$ to get $Q(A)^2=I.$ And $Q(A)in SO_n.$ This forces $Q(A)=pm I.$
Let $D=D(epsilon)=operatorname{diag}(1+epsilon,1+2epsilon,dots,1+nepsilon),$ and let $U$ be an arbitrary element of $SO_n.$ Since $Q(UDU^T)$ commutes with $P(UDU^T)=UDU^T,$ the conjugate $U^T Q(UDU^T) U$ commutes with $D.$ Any matrix $M$ that commutes with $D$ must be diagonal because $(DM-MD)_{ij}=M_{ij}(D_{ii}-D_{jj})=0$ forces $M_{ij}=0$ for $ineq j.$ Taking $epsilonto 0$ and applying continuity of $Dmapsto U^T Q(UDU^T) U$ we get that $U^T Q(I) U$ is diagonal. This restricts $U^T Q(I) U$ to a discrete set $operatorname{diag}(pm1,dots,pm 1).$ Since $SO_n$ is connected, $Umapsto U^T Q(I) U$ is constantly $Q(I).$ In other words $Q(I)$ commutes with every special orthogonal matrix, but for $n>2$ that forces $Q(I)=pm I$ as claimed.
From the above expression for $Q(A)$ it is clear that $Q(A)$ has eigenvalues $pm 1,$ which means the trace is a discrete invariant and must therefore be constant. If $Q(I)=I$ then the trace is $n$ and $Q(A)=I$ everywhere, and if $Q(I)=-I$ then the trace is $-n$ and $Q(A)=-I$ everywhere.
$endgroup$
I will use the notation from the question, $O(A)P(A)=A=F(A)S(A)$ and $S(A)=Q(A)P(A).$
The only possibilities are $Q(A)=I$ everywhere and $Q(A)=-I$ everywhere, with $-I$ only valid $n$ is even.
To show this I will first argue that $Q(I)=pm I.$
The matrices $P(A),Q(A),S(A)$ all commute: diagonalize $S$ as $VSigma V^T$ with $Vin SO_n$ (possibly a different $V$ to the one in the question), then $P(A)=V|Sigma| V^T$ and $Q(A)=Voperatorname{sgn}(Sigma) V^T$ where $|cdot|$ and $operatorname{sgn}$ are applied entrywise to the diagonal elements. This can be seen from the expression $FS=(FVoperatorname{sgn}(Sigma)V^T)(V|Sigma|V^T)=OP$ and uniqueness of orthogonal polar decomposition.
For the case $n=2,$ we can use the above expression for $Q(A)$ to get $Q(A)^2=I.$ And $Q(A)in SO_n.$ This forces $Q(A)=pm I.$
Let $D=D(epsilon)=operatorname{diag}(1+epsilon,1+2epsilon,dots,1+nepsilon),$ and let $U$ be an arbitrary element of $SO_n.$ Since $Q(UDU^T)$ commutes with $P(UDU^T)=UDU^T,$ the conjugate $U^T Q(UDU^T) U$ commutes with $D.$ Any matrix $M$ that commutes with $D$ must be diagonal because $(DM-MD)_{ij}=M_{ij}(D_{ii}-D_{jj})=0$ forces $M_{ij}=0$ for $ineq j.$ Taking $epsilonto 0$ and applying continuity of $Dmapsto U^T Q(UDU^T) U$ we get that $U^T Q(I) U$ is diagonal. This restricts $U^T Q(I) U$ to a discrete set $operatorname{diag}(pm1,dots,pm 1).$ Since $SO_n$ is connected, $Umapsto U^T Q(I) U$ is constantly $Q(I).$ In other words $Q(I)$ commutes with every special orthogonal matrix, but for $n>2$ that forces $Q(I)=pm I$ as claimed.
From the above expression for $Q(A)$ it is clear that $Q(A)$ has eigenvalues $pm 1,$ which means the trace is a discrete invariant and must therefore be constant. If $Q(I)=I$ then the trace is $n$ and $Q(A)=I$ everywhere, and if $Q(I)=-I$ then the trace is $-n$ and $Q(A)=-I$ everywhere.
edited Jan 2 at 8:06
answered Jan 1 at 10:19
DapDap
17.9k841
17.9k841
$begingroup$
wow! This is an amazing solution, really. Do you have any insight regarding how did you think about this "commutation approach"? (i.e. $P,Q,S$ commute and the exploitation of commutation with rotations). Also, two questions about your solution: (1) The reasoning that $U^TQ(UDU^T)U$ commutes with $D$ implies it's diagonal is the same as in my answer, right? i.e. it is because $D_{epsilon}$ has distinct values?
$endgroup$
– Asaf Shachar
Jan 1 at 16:17
$begingroup$
(2) I think we need to address in a special manner the case $n=2$. Since then a matrix which commutes with all rotations does not need to be $pm id$. (it could be any rotation). So, this case is still open.
$endgroup$
– Asaf Shachar
Jan 1 at 16:17
$begingroup$
By the way, we also need to be a bit careful about applying continuity argument on the trace here: It is true that the mp $A to text{trace}(Q(A))$ is continuous. However, I only proved that the eigenvalues of $Q(A)$ are $pm1$ when $A$ has distinct singular values. So, to conclude $text{trace}(Q(A))$ is constant, we need to know that this set is connected and dense. I am not sure about the connectedness. I asked about this here: math.stackexchange.com/questions/3058644/…
$endgroup$
– Asaf Shachar
Jan 1 at 16:56
1
$begingroup$
@AsafShachar: I've edited to clarified these points, but to summarize: (1) yes, that relies on having distinct values on the diagonal (2) $Q^2=I$ and $Qin SO_2$ forces $Q=pm I$ (3) I believe I can have shown $Q(A)^2=I$ for all $A$
$endgroup$
– Dap
Jan 2 at 8:07
1
$begingroup$
I'm just using commutation as a formal way to talk about matrices that would be simultaneously diagonal in a basis where $P-I$ is diagonal - but this basis depends on $A$ (and might not be able to be chosen continuously in $A$)
$endgroup$
– Dap
Jan 2 at 8:11
add a comment |
$begingroup$
wow! This is an amazing solution, really. Do you have any insight regarding how did you think about this "commutation approach"? (i.e. $P,Q,S$ commute and the exploitation of commutation with rotations). Also, two questions about your solution: (1) The reasoning that $U^TQ(UDU^T)U$ commutes with $D$ implies it's diagonal is the same as in my answer, right? i.e. it is because $D_{epsilon}$ has distinct values?
$endgroup$
– Asaf Shachar
Jan 1 at 16:17
$begingroup$
(2) I think we need to address in a special manner the case $n=2$. Since then a matrix which commutes with all rotations does not need to be $pm id$. (it could be any rotation). So, this case is still open.
$endgroup$
– Asaf Shachar
Jan 1 at 16:17
$begingroup$
By the way, we also need to be a bit careful about applying continuity argument on the trace here: It is true that the mp $A to text{trace}(Q(A))$ is continuous. However, I only proved that the eigenvalues of $Q(A)$ are $pm1$ when $A$ has distinct singular values. So, to conclude $text{trace}(Q(A))$ is constant, we need to know that this set is connected and dense. I am not sure about the connectedness. I asked about this here: math.stackexchange.com/questions/3058644/…
$endgroup$
– Asaf Shachar
Jan 1 at 16:56
1
$begingroup$
@AsafShachar: I've edited to clarified these points, but to summarize: (1) yes, that relies on having distinct values on the diagonal (2) $Q^2=I$ and $Qin SO_2$ forces $Q=pm I$ (3) I believe I can have shown $Q(A)^2=I$ for all $A$
$endgroup$
– Dap
Jan 2 at 8:07
1
$begingroup$
I'm just using commutation as a formal way to talk about matrices that would be simultaneously diagonal in a basis where $P-I$ is diagonal - but this basis depends on $A$ (and might not be able to be chosen continuously in $A$)
$endgroup$
– Dap
Jan 2 at 8:11
$begingroup$
wow! This is an amazing solution, really. Do you have any insight regarding how did you think about this "commutation approach"? (i.e. $P,Q,S$ commute and the exploitation of commutation with rotations). Also, two questions about your solution: (1) The reasoning that $U^TQ(UDU^T)U$ commutes with $D$ implies it's diagonal is the same as in my answer, right? i.e. it is because $D_{epsilon}$ has distinct values?
$endgroup$
– Asaf Shachar
Jan 1 at 16:17
$begingroup$
wow! This is an amazing solution, really. Do you have any insight regarding how did you think about this "commutation approach"? (i.e. $P,Q,S$ commute and the exploitation of commutation with rotations). Also, two questions about your solution: (1) The reasoning that $U^TQ(UDU^T)U$ commutes with $D$ implies it's diagonal is the same as in my answer, right? i.e. it is because $D_{epsilon}$ has distinct values?
$endgroup$
– Asaf Shachar
Jan 1 at 16:17
$begingroup$
(2) I think we need to address in a special manner the case $n=2$. Since then a matrix which commutes with all rotations does not need to be $pm id$. (it could be any rotation). So, this case is still open.
$endgroup$
– Asaf Shachar
Jan 1 at 16:17
$begingroup$
(2) I think we need to address in a special manner the case $n=2$. Since then a matrix which commutes with all rotations does not need to be $pm id$. (it could be any rotation). So, this case is still open.
$endgroup$
– Asaf Shachar
Jan 1 at 16:17
$begingroup$
By the way, we also need to be a bit careful about applying continuity argument on the trace here: It is true that the mp $A to text{trace}(Q(A))$ is continuous. However, I only proved that the eigenvalues of $Q(A)$ are $pm1$ when $A$ has distinct singular values. So, to conclude $text{trace}(Q(A))$ is constant, we need to know that this set is connected and dense. I am not sure about the connectedness. I asked about this here: math.stackexchange.com/questions/3058644/…
$endgroup$
– Asaf Shachar
Jan 1 at 16:56
$begingroup$
By the way, we also need to be a bit careful about applying continuity argument on the trace here: It is true that the mp $A to text{trace}(Q(A))$ is continuous. However, I only proved that the eigenvalues of $Q(A)$ are $pm1$ when $A$ has distinct singular values. So, to conclude $text{trace}(Q(A))$ is constant, we need to know that this set is connected and dense. I am not sure about the connectedness. I asked about this here: math.stackexchange.com/questions/3058644/…
$endgroup$
– Asaf Shachar
Jan 1 at 16:56
1
1
$begingroup$
@AsafShachar: I've edited to clarified these points, but to summarize: (1) yes, that relies on having distinct values on the diagonal (2) $Q^2=I$ and $Qin SO_2$ forces $Q=pm I$ (3) I believe I can have shown $Q(A)^2=I$ for all $A$
$endgroup$
– Dap
Jan 2 at 8:07
$begingroup$
@AsafShachar: I've edited to clarified these points, but to summarize: (1) yes, that relies on having distinct values on the diagonal (2) $Q^2=I$ and $Qin SO_2$ forces $Q=pm I$ (3) I believe I can have shown $Q(A)^2=I$ for all $A$
$endgroup$
– Dap
Jan 2 at 8:07
1
1
$begingroup$
I'm just using commutation as a formal way to talk about matrices that would be simultaneously diagonal in a basis where $P-I$ is diagonal - but this basis depends on $A$ (and might not be able to be chosen continuously in $A$)
$endgroup$
– Dap
Jan 2 at 8:11
$begingroup$
I'm just using commutation as a formal way to talk about matrices that would be simultaneously diagonal in a basis where $P-I$ is diagonal - but this basis depends on $A$ (and might not be able to be chosen continuously in $A$)
$endgroup$
– Dap
Jan 2 at 8:11
add a comment |
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How about the left orthogonal polar decomposition $O'$ defined by $A=Pcdot O'(A)$? I.e. $O'(A)=O(A^T)^T$
$endgroup$
– Dap
Dec 30 '18 at 7:32
$begingroup$
The left orthogonal polar equals to the right orthogonal polar; this is not trivial, but true. (This can be seen for instance by writing $A=USigma V^T$ , i.e. in terms of its SVD).
$endgroup$
– Asaf Shachar
Dec 30 '18 at 10:42