Show $I(V(f))=(f)$ when $f$ is irreducible.
$begingroup$
This is a question from Perrin's text, and it goes like this: Let $k$ be algebraically closed. Let $Fin k[x,y]$ be an irreducible polynomial. Assume that $V(F)$ is infinite. Prove that $I(V(F))=(F)$.
Here, $V(f)$ is the set of zeroes of the polynomial, and $I(V(F))$ is the ideal $(V(F))$.
Proof:
Since $k$ is a field, $k[x,y]$ is a unique factorization domain. So if $F$ is an irreducible polynomial in $k[x,y]$ that's the same as being a prime element. So $F$ generates a prime ideal. Next, we have that $textbf{rad}(F)=(F)$, since $(F)$ is a prime ideal. So by the Nullstellensatz, $(F)=I(V(F))$.
That is my proof for the problem, but nowhere in my proof did I use the hypothesis that $V(F)$ was infinite. So I was wondering if my proof is valid, or if I made some wrong assumption along the way. Also this proof would work for $k[x_1,...,x_n]$, and the problem only asks for $k[x,y]$, so I'm extra dubious about its correctness.
algebraic-geometry
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
This is a question from Perrin's text, and it goes like this: Let $k$ be algebraically closed. Let $Fin k[x,y]$ be an irreducible polynomial. Assume that $V(F)$ is infinite. Prove that $I(V(F))=(F)$.
Here, $V(f)$ is the set of zeroes of the polynomial, and $I(V(F))$ is the ideal $(V(F))$.
Proof:
Since $k$ is a field, $k[x,y]$ is a unique factorization domain. So if $F$ is an irreducible polynomial in $k[x,y]$ that's the same as being a prime element. So $F$ generates a prime ideal. Next, we have that $textbf{rad}(F)=(F)$, since $(F)$ is a prime ideal. So by the Nullstellensatz, $(F)=I(V(F))$.
That is my proof for the problem, but nowhere in my proof did I use the hypothesis that $V(F)$ was infinite. So I was wondering if my proof is valid, or if I made some wrong assumption along the way. Also this proof would work for $k[x_1,...,x_n]$, and the problem only asks for $k[x,y]$, so I'm extra dubious about its correctness.
algebraic-geometry
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
This is a question from Perrin's text, and it goes like this: Let $k$ be algebraically closed. Let $Fin k[x,y]$ be an irreducible polynomial. Assume that $V(F)$ is infinite. Prove that $I(V(F))=(F)$.
Here, $V(f)$ is the set of zeroes of the polynomial, and $I(V(F))$ is the ideal $(V(F))$.
Proof:
Since $k$ is a field, $k[x,y]$ is a unique factorization domain. So if $F$ is an irreducible polynomial in $k[x,y]$ that's the same as being a prime element. So $F$ generates a prime ideal. Next, we have that $textbf{rad}(F)=(F)$, since $(F)$ is a prime ideal. So by the Nullstellensatz, $(F)=I(V(F))$.
That is my proof for the problem, but nowhere in my proof did I use the hypothesis that $V(F)$ was infinite. So I was wondering if my proof is valid, or if I made some wrong assumption along the way. Also this proof would work for $k[x_1,...,x_n]$, and the problem only asks for $k[x,y]$, so I'm extra dubious about its correctness.
algebraic-geometry
$endgroup$
This is a question from Perrin's text, and it goes like this: Let $k$ be algebraically closed. Let $Fin k[x,y]$ be an irreducible polynomial. Assume that $V(F)$ is infinite. Prove that $I(V(F))=(F)$.
Here, $V(f)$ is the set of zeroes of the polynomial, and $I(V(F))$ is the ideal $(V(F))$.
Proof:
Since $k$ is a field, $k[x,y]$ is a unique factorization domain. So if $F$ is an irreducible polynomial in $k[x,y]$ that's the same as being a prime element. So $F$ generates a prime ideal. Next, we have that $textbf{rad}(F)=(F)$, since $(F)$ is a prime ideal. So by the Nullstellensatz, $(F)=I(V(F))$.
That is my proof for the problem, but nowhere in my proof did I use the hypothesis that $V(F)$ was infinite. So I was wondering if my proof is valid, or if I made some wrong assumption along the way. Also this proof would work for $k[x_1,...,x_n]$, and the problem only asks for $k[x,y]$, so I'm extra dubious about its correctness.
algebraic-geometry
algebraic-geometry
edited Dec 23 '18 at 10:55
K. Takeuchi
asked Dec 23 '18 at 10:37
K. TakeuchiK. Takeuchi
10618
10618
add a comment |
add a comment |
2 Answers
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$begingroup$
Your proof is correct. In fact, one doesn't need to assume that $V(F)$ is infinite. One can prove it from the other assumptions. Thus you shouldn't need to use it in your proof.
Claim: If $k$ is algebraically closed, and $fin k[x_1,ldots,x_n]$, with $nge 2$ is a nonunit, then $V(f)$ is infinite.
Proof of claim
First note that since $k$ is algebraically closed, it is infinite. Let $fin k[x_1,ldots,x_n]$, where $nge 2$. If $f$ is zero, $V(f)$ is clearly infinite, so assume $fne 0$. Then $f$ has positive degree in some variable, which we can assume without loss of generality is $x_1$. Let $d$ be the degree of $f$ with respect to $x_1$. Now write
$$f=sum_{i=0}^d g_i(x_2,ldots,x_n)x_1^i,$$
for some polynomials $g_iin k[x_2,ldots,x_n]$, with $g_dne 0$. Then for every choice of $a_2,ldots,a_n$ with $g_d(a_2,ldots,a_n)ne 0$, there exists $a_1$ such that $f(a_1,a_2,ldots,a_n)=0$ since $k$ is algebraically closed.
Thus we just need to show that there are infinitely many choices of $a_2,ldots,a_n$ with $g_d(a_2,ldots,a_n)ne 0$. However, this is much easier. Since $g_dne 0$, there is some point $ain Bbb{A}_k^{n-1}$ with $g_d(a)ne 0$. Then choose any line $L$ through $a$. $g_d|_L$ will be a nonzero polynomial on an affine line, and therefore $g_d$ will only have finitely many roots on this line. Hence by infiniteness of $k$, $g_d$ will have infinitely many nonroots on that line.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
I’ve just worked through this problem myself, and as posed Perrin doesn’t specify that the field is algebraically closed. In fact it doesn’t need to be, and this is where the condition that $V(F)$ is infinite is used.
There is a lemma (proved in Section 1.1 of Shafarevich’s Basic Algebraic Geometry 1) which states:
For an arbitrary field $k$, let $F,Gin k[X,Y]$ with $F$ irreducible. If $Fnmid G$ then the system of equations $F(x,y)=G(x,y)=0$ has only finitely many solutions.
Now, clearly $(F)subseteq I(V(F))$. Since $k[X,Y]$ is Noetherian we can write $I(V(F))=(G_1,ldots, G_n)$ for some $G_iin k[X,Y]$. We then have $$V(F)=V(I(V(F)))=V(G_1,ldots,G_n)$$
Then each point $(x,y)in V(F)$ satisfies $F(x,y)=G_i(x,y)=0$. Since $V(F)$ is infinite, then by the lemma we have $Fmid G_i$ and so $G_i=H_iF$ for some $H_iin k[X,Y]$. This yields $$I(V(F))=(G_1,ldots,G_n)=(H_1F,ldots,H_nF)subseteq(F)$$
So $I(V(F))=(F)$ and we are done.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
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$begingroup$
Your proof is correct. In fact, one doesn't need to assume that $V(F)$ is infinite. One can prove it from the other assumptions. Thus you shouldn't need to use it in your proof.
Claim: If $k$ is algebraically closed, and $fin k[x_1,ldots,x_n]$, with $nge 2$ is a nonunit, then $V(f)$ is infinite.
Proof of claim
First note that since $k$ is algebraically closed, it is infinite. Let $fin k[x_1,ldots,x_n]$, where $nge 2$. If $f$ is zero, $V(f)$ is clearly infinite, so assume $fne 0$. Then $f$ has positive degree in some variable, which we can assume without loss of generality is $x_1$. Let $d$ be the degree of $f$ with respect to $x_1$. Now write
$$f=sum_{i=0}^d g_i(x_2,ldots,x_n)x_1^i,$$
for some polynomials $g_iin k[x_2,ldots,x_n]$, with $g_dne 0$. Then for every choice of $a_2,ldots,a_n$ with $g_d(a_2,ldots,a_n)ne 0$, there exists $a_1$ such that $f(a_1,a_2,ldots,a_n)=0$ since $k$ is algebraically closed.
Thus we just need to show that there are infinitely many choices of $a_2,ldots,a_n$ with $g_d(a_2,ldots,a_n)ne 0$. However, this is much easier. Since $g_dne 0$, there is some point $ain Bbb{A}_k^{n-1}$ with $g_d(a)ne 0$. Then choose any line $L$ through $a$. $g_d|_L$ will be a nonzero polynomial on an affine line, and therefore $g_d$ will only have finitely many roots on this line. Hence by infiniteness of $k$, $g_d$ will have infinitely many nonroots on that line.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Your proof is correct. In fact, one doesn't need to assume that $V(F)$ is infinite. One can prove it from the other assumptions. Thus you shouldn't need to use it in your proof.
Claim: If $k$ is algebraically closed, and $fin k[x_1,ldots,x_n]$, with $nge 2$ is a nonunit, then $V(f)$ is infinite.
Proof of claim
First note that since $k$ is algebraically closed, it is infinite. Let $fin k[x_1,ldots,x_n]$, where $nge 2$. If $f$ is zero, $V(f)$ is clearly infinite, so assume $fne 0$. Then $f$ has positive degree in some variable, which we can assume without loss of generality is $x_1$. Let $d$ be the degree of $f$ with respect to $x_1$. Now write
$$f=sum_{i=0}^d g_i(x_2,ldots,x_n)x_1^i,$$
for some polynomials $g_iin k[x_2,ldots,x_n]$, with $g_dne 0$. Then for every choice of $a_2,ldots,a_n$ with $g_d(a_2,ldots,a_n)ne 0$, there exists $a_1$ such that $f(a_1,a_2,ldots,a_n)=0$ since $k$ is algebraically closed.
Thus we just need to show that there are infinitely many choices of $a_2,ldots,a_n$ with $g_d(a_2,ldots,a_n)ne 0$. However, this is much easier. Since $g_dne 0$, there is some point $ain Bbb{A}_k^{n-1}$ with $g_d(a)ne 0$. Then choose any line $L$ through $a$. $g_d|_L$ will be a nonzero polynomial on an affine line, and therefore $g_d$ will only have finitely many roots on this line. Hence by infiniteness of $k$, $g_d$ will have infinitely many nonroots on that line.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Your proof is correct. In fact, one doesn't need to assume that $V(F)$ is infinite. One can prove it from the other assumptions. Thus you shouldn't need to use it in your proof.
Claim: If $k$ is algebraically closed, and $fin k[x_1,ldots,x_n]$, with $nge 2$ is a nonunit, then $V(f)$ is infinite.
Proof of claim
First note that since $k$ is algebraically closed, it is infinite. Let $fin k[x_1,ldots,x_n]$, where $nge 2$. If $f$ is zero, $V(f)$ is clearly infinite, so assume $fne 0$. Then $f$ has positive degree in some variable, which we can assume without loss of generality is $x_1$. Let $d$ be the degree of $f$ with respect to $x_1$. Now write
$$f=sum_{i=0}^d g_i(x_2,ldots,x_n)x_1^i,$$
for some polynomials $g_iin k[x_2,ldots,x_n]$, with $g_dne 0$. Then for every choice of $a_2,ldots,a_n$ with $g_d(a_2,ldots,a_n)ne 0$, there exists $a_1$ such that $f(a_1,a_2,ldots,a_n)=0$ since $k$ is algebraically closed.
Thus we just need to show that there are infinitely many choices of $a_2,ldots,a_n$ with $g_d(a_2,ldots,a_n)ne 0$. However, this is much easier. Since $g_dne 0$, there is some point $ain Bbb{A}_k^{n-1}$ with $g_d(a)ne 0$. Then choose any line $L$ through $a$. $g_d|_L$ will be a nonzero polynomial on an affine line, and therefore $g_d$ will only have finitely many roots on this line. Hence by infiniteness of $k$, $g_d$ will have infinitely many nonroots on that line.
$endgroup$
Your proof is correct. In fact, one doesn't need to assume that $V(F)$ is infinite. One can prove it from the other assumptions. Thus you shouldn't need to use it in your proof.
Claim: If $k$ is algebraically closed, and $fin k[x_1,ldots,x_n]$, with $nge 2$ is a nonunit, then $V(f)$ is infinite.
Proof of claim
First note that since $k$ is algebraically closed, it is infinite. Let $fin k[x_1,ldots,x_n]$, where $nge 2$. If $f$ is zero, $V(f)$ is clearly infinite, so assume $fne 0$. Then $f$ has positive degree in some variable, which we can assume without loss of generality is $x_1$. Let $d$ be the degree of $f$ with respect to $x_1$. Now write
$$f=sum_{i=0}^d g_i(x_2,ldots,x_n)x_1^i,$$
for some polynomials $g_iin k[x_2,ldots,x_n]$, with $g_dne 0$. Then for every choice of $a_2,ldots,a_n$ with $g_d(a_2,ldots,a_n)ne 0$, there exists $a_1$ such that $f(a_1,a_2,ldots,a_n)=0$ since $k$ is algebraically closed.
Thus we just need to show that there are infinitely many choices of $a_2,ldots,a_n$ with $g_d(a_2,ldots,a_n)ne 0$. However, this is much easier. Since $g_dne 0$, there is some point $ain Bbb{A}_k^{n-1}$ with $g_d(a)ne 0$. Then choose any line $L$ through $a$. $g_d|_L$ will be a nonzero polynomial on an affine line, and therefore $g_d$ will only have finitely many roots on this line. Hence by infiniteness of $k$, $g_d$ will have infinitely many nonroots on that line.
answered Dec 23 '18 at 15:11
jgonjgon
14.9k32042
14.9k32042
add a comment |
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$begingroup$
I’ve just worked through this problem myself, and as posed Perrin doesn’t specify that the field is algebraically closed. In fact it doesn’t need to be, and this is where the condition that $V(F)$ is infinite is used.
There is a lemma (proved in Section 1.1 of Shafarevich’s Basic Algebraic Geometry 1) which states:
For an arbitrary field $k$, let $F,Gin k[X,Y]$ with $F$ irreducible. If $Fnmid G$ then the system of equations $F(x,y)=G(x,y)=0$ has only finitely many solutions.
Now, clearly $(F)subseteq I(V(F))$. Since $k[X,Y]$ is Noetherian we can write $I(V(F))=(G_1,ldots, G_n)$ for some $G_iin k[X,Y]$. We then have $$V(F)=V(I(V(F)))=V(G_1,ldots,G_n)$$
Then each point $(x,y)in V(F)$ satisfies $F(x,y)=G_i(x,y)=0$. Since $V(F)$ is infinite, then by the lemma we have $Fmid G_i$ and so $G_i=H_iF$ for some $H_iin k[X,Y]$. This yields $$I(V(F))=(G_1,ldots,G_n)=(H_1F,ldots,H_nF)subseteq(F)$$
So $I(V(F))=(F)$ and we are done.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
I’ve just worked through this problem myself, and as posed Perrin doesn’t specify that the field is algebraically closed. In fact it doesn’t need to be, and this is where the condition that $V(F)$ is infinite is used.
There is a lemma (proved in Section 1.1 of Shafarevich’s Basic Algebraic Geometry 1) which states:
For an arbitrary field $k$, let $F,Gin k[X,Y]$ with $F$ irreducible. If $Fnmid G$ then the system of equations $F(x,y)=G(x,y)=0$ has only finitely many solutions.
Now, clearly $(F)subseteq I(V(F))$. Since $k[X,Y]$ is Noetherian we can write $I(V(F))=(G_1,ldots, G_n)$ for some $G_iin k[X,Y]$. We then have $$V(F)=V(I(V(F)))=V(G_1,ldots,G_n)$$
Then each point $(x,y)in V(F)$ satisfies $F(x,y)=G_i(x,y)=0$. Since $V(F)$ is infinite, then by the lemma we have $Fmid G_i$ and so $G_i=H_iF$ for some $H_iin k[X,Y]$. This yields $$I(V(F))=(G_1,ldots,G_n)=(H_1F,ldots,H_nF)subseteq(F)$$
So $I(V(F))=(F)$ and we are done.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
I’ve just worked through this problem myself, and as posed Perrin doesn’t specify that the field is algebraically closed. In fact it doesn’t need to be, and this is where the condition that $V(F)$ is infinite is used.
There is a lemma (proved in Section 1.1 of Shafarevich’s Basic Algebraic Geometry 1) which states:
For an arbitrary field $k$, let $F,Gin k[X,Y]$ with $F$ irreducible. If $Fnmid G$ then the system of equations $F(x,y)=G(x,y)=0$ has only finitely many solutions.
Now, clearly $(F)subseteq I(V(F))$. Since $k[X,Y]$ is Noetherian we can write $I(V(F))=(G_1,ldots, G_n)$ for some $G_iin k[X,Y]$. We then have $$V(F)=V(I(V(F)))=V(G_1,ldots,G_n)$$
Then each point $(x,y)in V(F)$ satisfies $F(x,y)=G_i(x,y)=0$. Since $V(F)$ is infinite, then by the lemma we have $Fmid G_i$ and so $G_i=H_iF$ for some $H_iin k[X,Y]$. This yields $$I(V(F))=(G_1,ldots,G_n)=(H_1F,ldots,H_nF)subseteq(F)$$
So $I(V(F))=(F)$ and we are done.
$endgroup$
I’ve just worked through this problem myself, and as posed Perrin doesn’t specify that the field is algebraically closed. In fact it doesn’t need to be, and this is where the condition that $V(F)$ is infinite is used.
There is a lemma (proved in Section 1.1 of Shafarevich’s Basic Algebraic Geometry 1) which states:
For an arbitrary field $k$, let $F,Gin k[X,Y]$ with $F$ irreducible. If $Fnmid G$ then the system of equations $F(x,y)=G(x,y)=0$ has only finitely many solutions.
Now, clearly $(F)subseteq I(V(F))$. Since $k[X,Y]$ is Noetherian we can write $I(V(F))=(G_1,ldots, G_n)$ for some $G_iin k[X,Y]$. We then have $$V(F)=V(I(V(F)))=V(G_1,ldots,G_n)$$
Then each point $(x,y)in V(F)$ satisfies $F(x,y)=G_i(x,y)=0$. Since $V(F)$ is infinite, then by the lemma we have $Fmid G_i$ and so $G_i=H_iF$ for some $H_iin k[X,Y]$. This yields $$I(V(F))=(G_1,ldots,G_n)=(H_1F,ldots,H_nF)subseteq(F)$$
So $I(V(F))=(F)$ and we are done.
edited Feb 8 at 17:43
answered Feb 8 at 17:21
DaveDave
426
426
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