A Prime $mathcal P$-filter is contained in a unique $mathcal P$-ultrafilter?











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Some backround:



Let $mathcal P$ be a class of subsets of a topological space such that if $P_1$ and $P_2$ are sets from $mathcal P$ then $P_1cap P_2$ and $P_1cup P_2$ belong to $mathcal P$. A $mathcal P$-filter $mathcal F$ is a collection of nonempty elements of $mathcal P$ closed for finite intersections and such that for any $P_1in mathcal F$ and $P_1subseteq P_2in mathcal P$ we have $P_2in mathcal F$.



A $mathcal P$-filter $mathcal F$ is said to be prime if whenever $P_1$ and $P_2$ belong to $mathcal P$ and $P_1cup P_2in mathcal F$, then $P_1in mathcal F$ or $P_2in mathcal F$. A $mathcal P$-ultrafilter is just a maximal $mathcal P$-filter.



My question is, is every prime $mathcal P$-filter contained in a unique $mathcal P$-ultrafilter?; this is exercise 12E.6 of Willard's General Topology.



I have proved that if $mathcal F$ is a $mathcal P$-ultrafilter and $Pin mathcal P$ is such that $Pcap Fneq emptyset$ for all $Fin mathcal F$, then $Pin mathcal F$. I think this must be used in the proof but I don't know how.



All hints are appreciated.










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  • Have you proved that every ultrafilter is prime?
    – Asaf Karagila
    May 21 '13 at 2:53










  • yes, this follows easily from the condition at the end of my question.
    – Camilo Arosemena-Serrato
    May 21 '13 at 2:55










  • I know it does, I asked if you proved that. Did you also prove the slightly stronger proposition: If $cal F$ is a filter, and $P$ is such that for all $Fincal F$, $Pcap Fneqvarnothing$, then there exists $cal F'$ extending $cal F$ such that $Pincal F'$? (The statement about ultrafilters follows trivially form this.)
    – Asaf Karagila
    May 21 '13 at 4:09










  • yes, I did. I've also proved the question for when $mathcal P$ is the set of all zero-sets of the space. In there you have to use the following property: Given any two disjoint zero-sets $A,B$, there are zero-sets $C,D$ such that $Asubseteq C^c$, $Bsubseteq D^c$ and $C^ccap D^c=emptyset$. Perhaps the exercise is false, and we can come up with a counterexample with this.
    – Camilo Arosemena-Serrato
    May 21 '13 at 4:42










  • @CamiloArosemena This property of disjoint zero-sets is called (in papers I've seen) "screenability". It's used in the Wallman compactifications, IIRC.
    – Henno Brandsma
    May 21 '13 at 6:51















up vote
9
down vote

favorite
2












Some backround:



Let $mathcal P$ be a class of subsets of a topological space such that if $P_1$ and $P_2$ are sets from $mathcal P$ then $P_1cap P_2$ and $P_1cup P_2$ belong to $mathcal P$. A $mathcal P$-filter $mathcal F$ is a collection of nonempty elements of $mathcal P$ closed for finite intersections and such that for any $P_1in mathcal F$ and $P_1subseteq P_2in mathcal P$ we have $P_2in mathcal F$.



A $mathcal P$-filter $mathcal F$ is said to be prime if whenever $P_1$ and $P_2$ belong to $mathcal P$ and $P_1cup P_2in mathcal F$, then $P_1in mathcal F$ or $P_2in mathcal F$. A $mathcal P$-ultrafilter is just a maximal $mathcal P$-filter.



My question is, is every prime $mathcal P$-filter contained in a unique $mathcal P$-ultrafilter?; this is exercise 12E.6 of Willard's General Topology.



I have proved that if $mathcal F$ is a $mathcal P$-ultrafilter and $Pin mathcal P$ is such that $Pcap Fneq emptyset$ for all $Fin mathcal F$, then $Pin mathcal F$. I think this must be used in the proof but I don't know how.



All hints are appreciated.










share|cite|improve this question
























  • Have you proved that every ultrafilter is prime?
    – Asaf Karagila
    May 21 '13 at 2:53










  • yes, this follows easily from the condition at the end of my question.
    – Camilo Arosemena-Serrato
    May 21 '13 at 2:55










  • I know it does, I asked if you proved that. Did you also prove the slightly stronger proposition: If $cal F$ is a filter, and $P$ is such that for all $Fincal F$, $Pcap Fneqvarnothing$, then there exists $cal F'$ extending $cal F$ such that $Pincal F'$? (The statement about ultrafilters follows trivially form this.)
    – Asaf Karagila
    May 21 '13 at 4:09










  • yes, I did. I've also proved the question for when $mathcal P$ is the set of all zero-sets of the space. In there you have to use the following property: Given any two disjoint zero-sets $A,B$, there are zero-sets $C,D$ such that $Asubseteq C^c$, $Bsubseteq D^c$ and $C^ccap D^c=emptyset$. Perhaps the exercise is false, and we can come up with a counterexample with this.
    – Camilo Arosemena-Serrato
    May 21 '13 at 4:42










  • @CamiloArosemena This property of disjoint zero-sets is called (in papers I've seen) "screenability". It's used in the Wallman compactifications, IIRC.
    – Henno Brandsma
    May 21 '13 at 6:51













up vote
9
down vote

favorite
2









up vote
9
down vote

favorite
2






2





Some backround:



Let $mathcal P$ be a class of subsets of a topological space such that if $P_1$ and $P_2$ are sets from $mathcal P$ then $P_1cap P_2$ and $P_1cup P_2$ belong to $mathcal P$. A $mathcal P$-filter $mathcal F$ is a collection of nonempty elements of $mathcal P$ closed for finite intersections and such that for any $P_1in mathcal F$ and $P_1subseteq P_2in mathcal P$ we have $P_2in mathcal F$.



A $mathcal P$-filter $mathcal F$ is said to be prime if whenever $P_1$ and $P_2$ belong to $mathcal P$ and $P_1cup P_2in mathcal F$, then $P_1in mathcal F$ or $P_2in mathcal F$. A $mathcal P$-ultrafilter is just a maximal $mathcal P$-filter.



My question is, is every prime $mathcal P$-filter contained in a unique $mathcal P$-ultrafilter?; this is exercise 12E.6 of Willard's General Topology.



I have proved that if $mathcal F$ is a $mathcal P$-ultrafilter and $Pin mathcal P$ is such that $Pcap Fneq emptyset$ for all $Fin mathcal F$, then $Pin mathcal F$. I think this must be used in the proof but I don't know how.



All hints are appreciated.










share|cite|improve this question















Some backround:



Let $mathcal P$ be a class of subsets of a topological space such that if $P_1$ and $P_2$ are sets from $mathcal P$ then $P_1cap P_2$ and $P_1cup P_2$ belong to $mathcal P$. A $mathcal P$-filter $mathcal F$ is a collection of nonempty elements of $mathcal P$ closed for finite intersections and such that for any $P_1in mathcal F$ and $P_1subseteq P_2in mathcal P$ we have $P_2in mathcal F$.



A $mathcal P$-filter $mathcal F$ is said to be prime if whenever $P_1$ and $P_2$ belong to $mathcal P$ and $P_1cup P_2in mathcal F$, then $P_1in mathcal F$ or $P_2in mathcal F$. A $mathcal P$-ultrafilter is just a maximal $mathcal P$-filter.



My question is, is every prime $mathcal P$-filter contained in a unique $mathcal P$-ultrafilter?; this is exercise 12E.6 of Willard's General Topology.



I have proved that if $mathcal F$ is a $mathcal P$-ultrafilter and $Pin mathcal P$ is such that $Pcap Fneq emptyset$ for all $Fin mathcal F$, then $Pin mathcal F$. I think this must be used in the proof but I don't know how.



All hints are appreciated.







general-topology filters






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share|cite|improve this question













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share|cite|improve this question








edited May 21 '13 at 2:51

























asked May 20 '13 at 21:53









Camilo Arosemena-Serrato

5,62611848




5,62611848












  • Have you proved that every ultrafilter is prime?
    – Asaf Karagila
    May 21 '13 at 2:53










  • yes, this follows easily from the condition at the end of my question.
    – Camilo Arosemena-Serrato
    May 21 '13 at 2:55










  • I know it does, I asked if you proved that. Did you also prove the slightly stronger proposition: If $cal F$ is a filter, and $P$ is such that for all $Fincal F$, $Pcap Fneqvarnothing$, then there exists $cal F'$ extending $cal F$ such that $Pincal F'$? (The statement about ultrafilters follows trivially form this.)
    – Asaf Karagila
    May 21 '13 at 4:09










  • yes, I did. I've also proved the question for when $mathcal P$ is the set of all zero-sets of the space. In there you have to use the following property: Given any two disjoint zero-sets $A,B$, there are zero-sets $C,D$ such that $Asubseteq C^c$, $Bsubseteq D^c$ and $C^ccap D^c=emptyset$. Perhaps the exercise is false, and we can come up with a counterexample with this.
    – Camilo Arosemena-Serrato
    May 21 '13 at 4:42










  • @CamiloArosemena This property of disjoint zero-sets is called (in papers I've seen) "screenability". It's used in the Wallman compactifications, IIRC.
    – Henno Brandsma
    May 21 '13 at 6:51


















  • Have you proved that every ultrafilter is prime?
    – Asaf Karagila
    May 21 '13 at 2:53










  • yes, this follows easily from the condition at the end of my question.
    – Camilo Arosemena-Serrato
    May 21 '13 at 2:55










  • I know it does, I asked if you proved that. Did you also prove the slightly stronger proposition: If $cal F$ is a filter, and $P$ is such that for all $Fincal F$, $Pcap Fneqvarnothing$, then there exists $cal F'$ extending $cal F$ such that $Pincal F'$? (The statement about ultrafilters follows trivially form this.)
    – Asaf Karagila
    May 21 '13 at 4:09










  • yes, I did. I've also proved the question for when $mathcal P$ is the set of all zero-sets of the space. In there you have to use the following property: Given any two disjoint zero-sets $A,B$, there are zero-sets $C,D$ such that $Asubseteq C^c$, $Bsubseteq D^c$ and $C^ccap D^c=emptyset$. Perhaps the exercise is false, and we can come up with a counterexample with this.
    – Camilo Arosemena-Serrato
    May 21 '13 at 4:42










  • @CamiloArosemena This property of disjoint zero-sets is called (in papers I've seen) "screenability". It's used in the Wallman compactifications, IIRC.
    – Henno Brandsma
    May 21 '13 at 6:51
















Have you proved that every ultrafilter is prime?
– Asaf Karagila
May 21 '13 at 2:53




Have you proved that every ultrafilter is prime?
– Asaf Karagila
May 21 '13 at 2:53












yes, this follows easily from the condition at the end of my question.
– Camilo Arosemena-Serrato
May 21 '13 at 2:55




yes, this follows easily from the condition at the end of my question.
– Camilo Arosemena-Serrato
May 21 '13 at 2:55












I know it does, I asked if you proved that. Did you also prove the slightly stronger proposition: If $cal F$ is a filter, and $P$ is such that for all $Fincal F$, $Pcap Fneqvarnothing$, then there exists $cal F'$ extending $cal F$ such that $Pincal F'$? (The statement about ultrafilters follows trivially form this.)
– Asaf Karagila
May 21 '13 at 4:09




I know it does, I asked if you proved that. Did you also prove the slightly stronger proposition: If $cal F$ is a filter, and $P$ is such that for all $Fincal F$, $Pcap Fneqvarnothing$, then there exists $cal F'$ extending $cal F$ such that $Pincal F'$? (The statement about ultrafilters follows trivially form this.)
– Asaf Karagila
May 21 '13 at 4:09












yes, I did. I've also proved the question for when $mathcal P$ is the set of all zero-sets of the space. In there you have to use the following property: Given any two disjoint zero-sets $A,B$, there are zero-sets $C,D$ such that $Asubseteq C^c$, $Bsubseteq D^c$ and $C^ccap D^c=emptyset$. Perhaps the exercise is false, and we can come up with a counterexample with this.
– Camilo Arosemena-Serrato
May 21 '13 at 4:42




yes, I did. I've also proved the question for when $mathcal P$ is the set of all zero-sets of the space. In there you have to use the following property: Given any two disjoint zero-sets $A,B$, there are zero-sets $C,D$ such that $Asubseteq C^c$, $Bsubseteq D^c$ and $C^ccap D^c=emptyset$. Perhaps the exercise is false, and we can come up with a counterexample with this.
– Camilo Arosemena-Serrato
May 21 '13 at 4:42












@CamiloArosemena This property of disjoint zero-sets is called (in papers I've seen) "screenability". It's used in the Wallman compactifications, IIRC.
– Henno Brandsma
May 21 '13 at 6:51




@CamiloArosemena This property of disjoint zero-sets is called (in papers I've seen) "screenability". It's used in the Wallman compactifications, IIRC.
– Henno Brandsma
May 21 '13 at 6:51










2 Answers
2






active

oldest

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up vote
5
down vote



accepted










In general it's false, I think, even for finite collections.



The question is really about distributive lattices, as the commenters already said, and there are standard examples of distributive lattices such that a prime filter need no be extendible to a unique ultrafilter, I just have to instantiate
such an example as a collection of subsets of a topological space..:



Let $X = mathbb{R}$, say, and $mathcal{P} = {[0,9],[0,6],[3,9],[3,6],[3,5],[4,6],[4,5]}$ (the lattice diagram is a "double diamond").



Then $mathcal{F} = {[0,9], [3,9]}$ is a prime filter, but both $mathcal{U} = mathcal{P}setminus {[3,5],[4,5]}$ and $mathcal{U}' = mathcal{P} setminus {[4,6],[4,5]}$ are ultrafilters extending $mathcal{F}$.






share|cite|improve this answer




























    up vote
    0
    down vote













    It's false in general, and even for cases of interest to Williard.



    Let ${cal P}$ be the collection of open subsets of the real line. Let ${cal F}$ be the filter of open sets containing 0. This is clearly a prime filter.



    Now, every set of the form $(0,frac{1}{n})$ intersects every element of ${cal F}$, so there is an open ultrafilter ${cal F}_1$ containing ${cal F}$ and also every set of this form.



    But, in the same way, every set of the form $(-frac{1}{n},0)$ intersects every element of ${cal F}$, so there is an ultrafilter ${cal F}_2$ containing ${cal F}$ and all of these.



    Clearly, ${cal F}_1$ and ${cal F}_2$ are different and ${cal F}$ is contained in both.






    share|cite|improve this answer





















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      2 Answers
      2






      active

      oldest

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      2 Answers
      2






      active

      oldest

      votes









      active

      oldest

      votes






      active

      oldest

      votes








      up vote
      5
      down vote



      accepted










      In general it's false, I think, even for finite collections.



      The question is really about distributive lattices, as the commenters already said, and there are standard examples of distributive lattices such that a prime filter need no be extendible to a unique ultrafilter, I just have to instantiate
      such an example as a collection of subsets of a topological space..:



      Let $X = mathbb{R}$, say, and $mathcal{P} = {[0,9],[0,6],[3,9],[3,6],[3,5],[4,6],[4,5]}$ (the lattice diagram is a "double diamond").



      Then $mathcal{F} = {[0,9], [3,9]}$ is a prime filter, but both $mathcal{U} = mathcal{P}setminus {[3,5],[4,5]}$ and $mathcal{U}' = mathcal{P} setminus {[4,6],[4,5]}$ are ultrafilters extending $mathcal{F}$.






      share|cite|improve this answer

























        up vote
        5
        down vote



        accepted










        In general it's false, I think, even for finite collections.



        The question is really about distributive lattices, as the commenters already said, and there are standard examples of distributive lattices such that a prime filter need no be extendible to a unique ultrafilter, I just have to instantiate
        such an example as a collection of subsets of a topological space..:



        Let $X = mathbb{R}$, say, and $mathcal{P} = {[0,9],[0,6],[3,9],[3,6],[3,5],[4,6],[4,5]}$ (the lattice diagram is a "double diamond").



        Then $mathcal{F} = {[0,9], [3,9]}$ is a prime filter, but both $mathcal{U} = mathcal{P}setminus {[3,5],[4,5]}$ and $mathcal{U}' = mathcal{P} setminus {[4,6],[4,5]}$ are ultrafilters extending $mathcal{F}$.






        share|cite|improve this answer























          up vote
          5
          down vote



          accepted







          up vote
          5
          down vote



          accepted






          In general it's false, I think, even for finite collections.



          The question is really about distributive lattices, as the commenters already said, and there are standard examples of distributive lattices such that a prime filter need no be extendible to a unique ultrafilter, I just have to instantiate
          such an example as a collection of subsets of a topological space..:



          Let $X = mathbb{R}$, say, and $mathcal{P} = {[0,9],[0,6],[3,9],[3,6],[3,5],[4,6],[4,5]}$ (the lattice diagram is a "double diamond").



          Then $mathcal{F} = {[0,9], [3,9]}$ is a prime filter, but both $mathcal{U} = mathcal{P}setminus {[3,5],[4,5]}$ and $mathcal{U}' = mathcal{P} setminus {[4,6],[4,5]}$ are ultrafilters extending $mathcal{F}$.






          share|cite|improve this answer












          In general it's false, I think, even for finite collections.



          The question is really about distributive lattices, as the commenters already said, and there are standard examples of distributive lattices such that a prime filter need no be extendible to a unique ultrafilter, I just have to instantiate
          such an example as a collection of subsets of a topological space..:



          Let $X = mathbb{R}$, say, and $mathcal{P} = {[0,9],[0,6],[3,9],[3,6],[3,5],[4,6],[4,5]}$ (the lattice diagram is a "double diamond").



          Then $mathcal{F} = {[0,9], [3,9]}$ is a prime filter, but both $mathcal{U} = mathcal{P}setminus {[3,5],[4,5]}$ and $mathcal{U}' = mathcal{P} setminus {[4,6],[4,5]}$ are ultrafilters extending $mathcal{F}$.







          share|cite|improve this answer












          share|cite|improve this answer



          share|cite|improve this answer










          answered May 21 '13 at 6:59









          Henno Brandsma

          102k344107




          102k344107






















              up vote
              0
              down vote













              It's false in general, and even for cases of interest to Williard.



              Let ${cal P}$ be the collection of open subsets of the real line. Let ${cal F}$ be the filter of open sets containing 0. This is clearly a prime filter.



              Now, every set of the form $(0,frac{1}{n})$ intersects every element of ${cal F}$, so there is an open ultrafilter ${cal F}_1$ containing ${cal F}$ and also every set of this form.



              But, in the same way, every set of the form $(-frac{1}{n},0)$ intersects every element of ${cal F}$, so there is an ultrafilter ${cal F}_2$ containing ${cal F}$ and all of these.



              Clearly, ${cal F}_1$ and ${cal F}_2$ are different and ${cal F}$ is contained in both.






              share|cite|improve this answer

























                up vote
                0
                down vote













                It's false in general, and even for cases of interest to Williard.



                Let ${cal P}$ be the collection of open subsets of the real line. Let ${cal F}$ be the filter of open sets containing 0. This is clearly a prime filter.



                Now, every set of the form $(0,frac{1}{n})$ intersects every element of ${cal F}$, so there is an open ultrafilter ${cal F}_1$ containing ${cal F}$ and also every set of this form.



                But, in the same way, every set of the form $(-frac{1}{n},0)$ intersects every element of ${cal F}$, so there is an ultrafilter ${cal F}_2$ containing ${cal F}$ and all of these.



                Clearly, ${cal F}_1$ and ${cal F}_2$ are different and ${cal F}$ is contained in both.






                share|cite|improve this answer























                  up vote
                  0
                  down vote










                  up vote
                  0
                  down vote









                  It's false in general, and even for cases of interest to Williard.



                  Let ${cal P}$ be the collection of open subsets of the real line. Let ${cal F}$ be the filter of open sets containing 0. This is clearly a prime filter.



                  Now, every set of the form $(0,frac{1}{n})$ intersects every element of ${cal F}$, so there is an open ultrafilter ${cal F}_1$ containing ${cal F}$ and also every set of this form.



                  But, in the same way, every set of the form $(-frac{1}{n},0)$ intersects every element of ${cal F}$, so there is an ultrafilter ${cal F}_2$ containing ${cal F}$ and all of these.



                  Clearly, ${cal F}_1$ and ${cal F}_2$ are different and ${cal F}$ is contained in both.






                  share|cite|improve this answer












                  It's false in general, and even for cases of interest to Williard.



                  Let ${cal P}$ be the collection of open subsets of the real line. Let ${cal F}$ be the filter of open sets containing 0. This is clearly a prime filter.



                  Now, every set of the form $(0,frac{1}{n})$ intersects every element of ${cal F}$, so there is an open ultrafilter ${cal F}_1$ containing ${cal F}$ and also every set of this form.



                  But, in the same way, every set of the form $(-frac{1}{n},0)$ intersects every element of ${cal F}$, so there is an ultrafilter ${cal F}_2$ containing ${cal F}$ and all of these.



                  Clearly, ${cal F}_1$ and ${cal F}_2$ are different and ${cal F}$ is contained in both.







                  share|cite|improve this answer












                  share|cite|improve this answer



                  share|cite|improve this answer










                  answered Nov 20 at 19:05









                  polymath257

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