Show $I(V(f))=(f)$ when $f$ is irreducible.












2












$begingroup$


This is a question from Perrin's text, and it goes like this: Let $k$ be algebraically closed. Let $Fin k[x,y]$ be an irreducible polynomial. Assume that $V(F)$ is infinite. Prove that $I(V(F))=(F)$.

Here, $V(f)$ is the set of zeroes of the polynomial, and $I(V(F))$ is the ideal $(V(F))$.



Proof:
Since $k$ is a field, $k[x,y]$ is a unique factorization domain. So if $F$ is an irreducible polynomial in $k[x,y]$ that's the same as being a prime element. So $F$ generates a prime ideal. Next, we have that $textbf{rad}(F)=(F)$, since $(F)$ is a prime ideal. So by the Nullstellensatz, $(F)=I(V(F))$.



That is my proof for the problem, but nowhere in my proof did I use the hypothesis that $V(F)$ was infinite. So I was wondering if my proof is valid, or if I made some wrong assumption along the way. Also this proof would work for $k[x_1,...,x_n]$, and the problem only asks for $k[x,y]$, so I'm extra dubious about its correctness.










share|cite|improve this question











$endgroup$

















    2












    $begingroup$


    This is a question from Perrin's text, and it goes like this: Let $k$ be algebraically closed. Let $Fin k[x,y]$ be an irreducible polynomial. Assume that $V(F)$ is infinite. Prove that $I(V(F))=(F)$.

    Here, $V(f)$ is the set of zeroes of the polynomial, and $I(V(F))$ is the ideal $(V(F))$.



    Proof:
    Since $k$ is a field, $k[x,y]$ is a unique factorization domain. So if $F$ is an irreducible polynomial in $k[x,y]$ that's the same as being a prime element. So $F$ generates a prime ideal. Next, we have that $textbf{rad}(F)=(F)$, since $(F)$ is a prime ideal. So by the Nullstellensatz, $(F)=I(V(F))$.



    That is my proof for the problem, but nowhere in my proof did I use the hypothesis that $V(F)$ was infinite. So I was wondering if my proof is valid, or if I made some wrong assumption along the way. Also this proof would work for $k[x_1,...,x_n]$, and the problem only asks for $k[x,y]$, so I'm extra dubious about its correctness.










    share|cite|improve this question











    $endgroup$















      2












      2








      2





      $begingroup$


      This is a question from Perrin's text, and it goes like this: Let $k$ be algebraically closed. Let $Fin k[x,y]$ be an irreducible polynomial. Assume that $V(F)$ is infinite. Prove that $I(V(F))=(F)$.

      Here, $V(f)$ is the set of zeroes of the polynomial, and $I(V(F))$ is the ideal $(V(F))$.



      Proof:
      Since $k$ is a field, $k[x,y]$ is a unique factorization domain. So if $F$ is an irreducible polynomial in $k[x,y]$ that's the same as being a prime element. So $F$ generates a prime ideal. Next, we have that $textbf{rad}(F)=(F)$, since $(F)$ is a prime ideal. So by the Nullstellensatz, $(F)=I(V(F))$.



      That is my proof for the problem, but nowhere in my proof did I use the hypothesis that $V(F)$ was infinite. So I was wondering if my proof is valid, or if I made some wrong assumption along the way. Also this proof would work for $k[x_1,...,x_n]$, and the problem only asks for $k[x,y]$, so I'm extra dubious about its correctness.










      share|cite|improve this question











      $endgroup$




      This is a question from Perrin's text, and it goes like this: Let $k$ be algebraically closed. Let $Fin k[x,y]$ be an irreducible polynomial. Assume that $V(F)$ is infinite. Prove that $I(V(F))=(F)$.

      Here, $V(f)$ is the set of zeroes of the polynomial, and $I(V(F))$ is the ideal $(V(F))$.



      Proof:
      Since $k$ is a field, $k[x,y]$ is a unique factorization domain. So if $F$ is an irreducible polynomial in $k[x,y]$ that's the same as being a prime element. So $F$ generates a prime ideal. Next, we have that $textbf{rad}(F)=(F)$, since $(F)$ is a prime ideal. So by the Nullstellensatz, $(F)=I(V(F))$.



      That is my proof for the problem, but nowhere in my proof did I use the hypothesis that $V(F)$ was infinite. So I was wondering if my proof is valid, or if I made some wrong assumption along the way. Also this proof would work for $k[x_1,...,x_n]$, and the problem only asks for $k[x,y]$, so I'm extra dubious about its correctness.







      algebraic-geometry






      share|cite|improve this question















      share|cite|improve this question













      share|cite|improve this question




      share|cite|improve this question








      edited Dec 23 '18 at 10:55







      K. Takeuchi

















      asked Dec 23 '18 at 10:37









      K. TakeuchiK. Takeuchi

      10618




      10618






















          2 Answers
          2






          active

          oldest

          votes


















          4












          $begingroup$

          Your proof is correct. In fact, one doesn't need to assume that $V(F)$ is infinite. One can prove it from the other assumptions. Thus you shouldn't need to use it in your proof.




          Claim: If $k$ is algebraically closed, and $fin k[x_1,ldots,x_n]$, with $nge 2$ is a nonunit, then $V(f)$ is infinite.




          Proof of claim



          First note that since $k$ is algebraically closed, it is infinite. Let $fin k[x_1,ldots,x_n]$, where $nge 2$. If $f$ is zero, $V(f)$ is clearly infinite, so assume $fne 0$. Then $f$ has positive degree in some variable, which we can assume without loss of generality is $x_1$. Let $d$ be the degree of $f$ with respect to $x_1$. Now write
          $$f=sum_{i=0}^d g_i(x_2,ldots,x_n)x_1^i,$$
          for some polynomials $g_iin k[x_2,ldots,x_n]$, with $g_dne 0$. Then for every choice of $a_2,ldots,a_n$ with $g_d(a_2,ldots,a_n)ne 0$, there exists $a_1$ such that $f(a_1,a_2,ldots,a_n)=0$ since $k$ is algebraically closed.



          Thus we just need to show that there are infinitely many choices of $a_2,ldots,a_n$ with $g_d(a_2,ldots,a_n)ne 0$. However, this is much easier. Since $g_dne 0$, there is some point $ain Bbb{A}_k^{n-1}$ with $g_d(a)ne 0$. Then choose any line $L$ through $a$. $g_d|_L$ will be a nonzero polynomial on an affine line, and therefore $g_d$ will only have finitely many roots on this line. Hence by infiniteness of $k$, $g_d$ will have infinitely many nonroots on that line.






          share|cite|improve this answer









          $endgroup$





















            1












            $begingroup$

            I’ve just worked through this problem myself, and as posed Perrin doesn’t specify that the field is algebraically closed. In fact it doesn’t need to be, and this is where the condition that $V(F)$ is infinite is used.



            There is a lemma (proved in Section 1.1 of Shafarevich’s Basic Algebraic Geometry 1) which states:




            For an arbitrary field $k$, let $F,Gin k[X,Y]$ with $F$ irreducible. If $Fnmid G$ then the system of equations $F(x,y)=G(x,y)=0$ has only finitely many solutions.




            Now, clearly $(F)subseteq I(V(F))$. Since $k[X,Y]$ is Noetherian we can write $I(V(F))=(G_1,ldots, G_n)$ for some $G_iin k[X,Y]$. We then have $$V(F)=V(I(V(F)))=V(G_1,ldots,G_n)$$



            Then each point $(x,y)in V(F)$ satisfies $F(x,y)=G_i(x,y)=0$. Since $V(F)$ is infinite, then by the lemma we have $Fmid G_i$ and so $G_i=H_iF$ for some $H_iin k[X,Y]$. This yields $$I(V(F))=(G_1,ldots,G_n)=(H_1F,ldots,H_nF)subseteq(F)$$



            So $I(V(F))=(F)$ and we are done.






            share|cite|improve this answer











            $endgroup$













              Your Answer





              StackExchange.ifUsing("editor", function () {
              return StackExchange.using("mathjaxEditing", function () {
              StackExchange.MarkdownEditor.creationCallbacks.add(function (editor, postfix) {
              StackExchange.mathjaxEditing.prepareWmdForMathJax(editor, postfix, [["$", "$"], ["\\(","\\)"]]);
              });
              });
              }, "mathjax-editing");

              StackExchange.ready(function() {
              var channelOptions = {
              tags: "".split(" "),
              id: "69"
              };
              initTagRenderer("".split(" "), "".split(" "), channelOptions);

              StackExchange.using("externalEditor", function() {
              // Have to fire editor after snippets, if snippets enabled
              if (StackExchange.settings.snippets.snippetsEnabled) {
              StackExchange.using("snippets", function() {
              createEditor();
              });
              }
              else {
              createEditor();
              }
              });

              function createEditor() {
              StackExchange.prepareEditor({
              heartbeatType: 'answer',
              autoActivateHeartbeat: false,
              convertImagesToLinks: true,
              noModals: true,
              showLowRepImageUploadWarning: true,
              reputationToPostImages: 10,
              bindNavPrevention: true,
              postfix: "",
              imageUploader: {
              brandingHtml: "Powered by u003ca class="icon-imgur-white" href="https://imgur.com/"u003eu003c/au003e",
              contentPolicyHtml: "User contributions licensed under u003ca href="https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/"u003ecc by-sa 3.0 with attribution requiredu003c/au003e u003ca href="https://stackoverflow.com/legal/content-policy"u003e(content policy)u003c/au003e",
              allowUrls: true
              },
              noCode: true, onDemand: true,
              discardSelector: ".discard-answer"
              ,immediatelyShowMarkdownHelp:true
              });


              }
              });














              draft saved

              draft discarded


















              StackExchange.ready(
              function () {
              StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fmath.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f3050230%2fshow-ivf-f-when-f-is-irreducible%23new-answer', 'question_page');
              }
              );

              Post as a guest















              Required, but never shown

























              2 Answers
              2






              active

              oldest

              votes








              2 Answers
              2






              active

              oldest

              votes









              active

              oldest

              votes






              active

              oldest

              votes









              4












              $begingroup$

              Your proof is correct. In fact, one doesn't need to assume that $V(F)$ is infinite. One can prove it from the other assumptions. Thus you shouldn't need to use it in your proof.




              Claim: If $k$ is algebraically closed, and $fin k[x_1,ldots,x_n]$, with $nge 2$ is a nonunit, then $V(f)$ is infinite.




              Proof of claim



              First note that since $k$ is algebraically closed, it is infinite. Let $fin k[x_1,ldots,x_n]$, where $nge 2$. If $f$ is zero, $V(f)$ is clearly infinite, so assume $fne 0$. Then $f$ has positive degree in some variable, which we can assume without loss of generality is $x_1$. Let $d$ be the degree of $f$ with respect to $x_1$. Now write
              $$f=sum_{i=0}^d g_i(x_2,ldots,x_n)x_1^i,$$
              for some polynomials $g_iin k[x_2,ldots,x_n]$, with $g_dne 0$. Then for every choice of $a_2,ldots,a_n$ with $g_d(a_2,ldots,a_n)ne 0$, there exists $a_1$ such that $f(a_1,a_2,ldots,a_n)=0$ since $k$ is algebraically closed.



              Thus we just need to show that there are infinitely many choices of $a_2,ldots,a_n$ with $g_d(a_2,ldots,a_n)ne 0$. However, this is much easier. Since $g_dne 0$, there is some point $ain Bbb{A}_k^{n-1}$ with $g_d(a)ne 0$. Then choose any line $L$ through $a$. $g_d|_L$ will be a nonzero polynomial on an affine line, and therefore $g_d$ will only have finitely many roots on this line. Hence by infiniteness of $k$, $g_d$ will have infinitely many nonroots on that line.






              share|cite|improve this answer









              $endgroup$


















                4












                $begingroup$

                Your proof is correct. In fact, one doesn't need to assume that $V(F)$ is infinite. One can prove it from the other assumptions. Thus you shouldn't need to use it in your proof.




                Claim: If $k$ is algebraically closed, and $fin k[x_1,ldots,x_n]$, with $nge 2$ is a nonunit, then $V(f)$ is infinite.




                Proof of claim



                First note that since $k$ is algebraically closed, it is infinite. Let $fin k[x_1,ldots,x_n]$, where $nge 2$. If $f$ is zero, $V(f)$ is clearly infinite, so assume $fne 0$. Then $f$ has positive degree in some variable, which we can assume without loss of generality is $x_1$. Let $d$ be the degree of $f$ with respect to $x_1$. Now write
                $$f=sum_{i=0}^d g_i(x_2,ldots,x_n)x_1^i,$$
                for some polynomials $g_iin k[x_2,ldots,x_n]$, with $g_dne 0$. Then for every choice of $a_2,ldots,a_n$ with $g_d(a_2,ldots,a_n)ne 0$, there exists $a_1$ such that $f(a_1,a_2,ldots,a_n)=0$ since $k$ is algebraically closed.



                Thus we just need to show that there are infinitely many choices of $a_2,ldots,a_n$ with $g_d(a_2,ldots,a_n)ne 0$. However, this is much easier. Since $g_dne 0$, there is some point $ain Bbb{A}_k^{n-1}$ with $g_d(a)ne 0$. Then choose any line $L$ through $a$. $g_d|_L$ will be a nonzero polynomial on an affine line, and therefore $g_d$ will only have finitely many roots on this line. Hence by infiniteness of $k$, $g_d$ will have infinitely many nonroots on that line.






                share|cite|improve this answer









                $endgroup$
















                  4












                  4








                  4





                  $begingroup$

                  Your proof is correct. In fact, one doesn't need to assume that $V(F)$ is infinite. One can prove it from the other assumptions. Thus you shouldn't need to use it in your proof.




                  Claim: If $k$ is algebraically closed, and $fin k[x_1,ldots,x_n]$, with $nge 2$ is a nonunit, then $V(f)$ is infinite.




                  Proof of claim



                  First note that since $k$ is algebraically closed, it is infinite. Let $fin k[x_1,ldots,x_n]$, where $nge 2$. If $f$ is zero, $V(f)$ is clearly infinite, so assume $fne 0$. Then $f$ has positive degree in some variable, which we can assume without loss of generality is $x_1$. Let $d$ be the degree of $f$ with respect to $x_1$. Now write
                  $$f=sum_{i=0}^d g_i(x_2,ldots,x_n)x_1^i,$$
                  for some polynomials $g_iin k[x_2,ldots,x_n]$, with $g_dne 0$. Then for every choice of $a_2,ldots,a_n$ with $g_d(a_2,ldots,a_n)ne 0$, there exists $a_1$ such that $f(a_1,a_2,ldots,a_n)=0$ since $k$ is algebraically closed.



                  Thus we just need to show that there are infinitely many choices of $a_2,ldots,a_n$ with $g_d(a_2,ldots,a_n)ne 0$. However, this is much easier. Since $g_dne 0$, there is some point $ain Bbb{A}_k^{n-1}$ with $g_d(a)ne 0$. Then choose any line $L$ through $a$. $g_d|_L$ will be a nonzero polynomial on an affine line, and therefore $g_d$ will only have finitely many roots on this line. Hence by infiniteness of $k$, $g_d$ will have infinitely many nonroots on that line.






                  share|cite|improve this answer









                  $endgroup$



                  Your proof is correct. In fact, one doesn't need to assume that $V(F)$ is infinite. One can prove it from the other assumptions. Thus you shouldn't need to use it in your proof.




                  Claim: If $k$ is algebraically closed, and $fin k[x_1,ldots,x_n]$, with $nge 2$ is a nonunit, then $V(f)$ is infinite.




                  Proof of claim



                  First note that since $k$ is algebraically closed, it is infinite. Let $fin k[x_1,ldots,x_n]$, where $nge 2$. If $f$ is zero, $V(f)$ is clearly infinite, so assume $fne 0$. Then $f$ has positive degree in some variable, which we can assume without loss of generality is $x_1$. Let $d$ be the degree of $f$ with respect to $x_1$. Now write
                  $$f=sum_{i=0}^d g_i(x_2,ldots,x_n)x_1^i,$$
                  for some polynomials $g_iin k[x_2,ldots,x_n]$, with $g_dne 0$. Then for every choice of $a_2,ldots,a_n$ with $g_d(a_2,ldots,a_n)ne 0$, there exists $a_1$ such that $f(a_1,a_2,ldots,a_n)=0$ since $k$ is algebraically closed.



                  Thus we just need to show that there are infinitely many choices of $a_2,ldots,a_n$ with $g_d(a_2,ldots,a_n)ne 0$. However, this is much easier. Since $g_dne 0$, there is some point $ain Bbb{A}_k^{n-1}$ with $g_d(a)ne 0$. Then choose any line $L$ through $a$. $g_d|_L$ will be a nonzero polynomial on an affine line, and therefore $g_d$ will only have finitely many roots on this line. Hence by infiniteness of $k$, $g_d$ will have infinitely many nonroots on that line.







                  share|cite|improve this answer












                  share|cite|improve this answer



                  share|cite|improve this answer










                  answered Dec 23 '18 at 15:11









                  jgonjgon

                  14.9k32042




                  14.9k32042























                      1












                      $begingroup$

                      I’ve just worked through this problem myself, and as posed Perrin doesn’t specify that the field is algebraically closed. In fact it doesn’t need to be, and this is where the condition that $V(F)$ is infinite is used.



                      There is a lemma (proved in Section 1.1 of Shafarevich’s Basic Algebraic Geometry 1) which states:




                      For an arbitrary field $k$, let $F,Gin k[X,Y]$ with $F$ irreducible. If $Fnmid G$ then the system of equations $F(x,y)=G(x,y)=0$ has only finitely many solutions.




                      Now, clearly $(F)subseteq I(V(F))$. Since $k[X,Y]$ is Noetherian we can write $I(V(F))=(G_1,ldots, G_n)$ for some $G_iin k[X,Y]$. We then have $$V(F)=V(I(V(F)))=V(G_1,ldots,G_n)$$



                      Then each point $(x,y)in V(F)$ satisfies $F(x,y)=G_i(x,y)=0$. Since $V(F)$ is infinite, then by the lemma we have $Fmid G_i$ and so $G_i=H_iF$ for some $H_iin k[X,Y]$. This yields $$I(V(F))=(G_1,ldots,G_n)=(H_1F,ldots,H_nF)subseteq(F)$$



                      So $I(V(F))=(F)$ and we are done.






                      share|cite|improve this answer











                      $endgroup$


















                        1












                        $begingroup$

                        I’ve just worked through this problem myself, and as posed Perrin doesn’t specify that the field is algebraically closed. In fact it doesn’t need to be, and this is where the condition that $V(F)$ is infinite is used.



                        There is a lemma (proved in Section 1.1 of Shafarevich’s Basic Algebraic Geometry 1) which states:




                        For an arbitrary field $k$, let $F,Gin k[X,Y]$ with $F$ irreducible. If $Fnmid G$ then the system of equations $F(x,y)=G(x,y)=0$ has only finitely many solutions.




                        Now, clearly $(F)subseteq I(V(F))$. Since $k[X,Y]$ is Noetherian we can write $I(V(F))=(G_1,ldots, G_n)$ for some $G_iin k[X,Y]$. We then have $$V(F)=V(I(V(F)))=V(G_1,ldots,G_n)$$



                        Then each point $(x,y)in V(F)$ satisfies $F(x,y)=G_i(x,y)=0$. Since $V(F)$ is infinite, then by the lemma we have $Fmid G_i$ and so $G_i=H_iF$ for some $H_iin k[X,Y]$. This yields $$I(V(F))=(G_1,ldots,G_n)=(H_1F,ldots,H_nF)subseteq(F)$$



                        So $I(V(F))=(F)$ and we are done.






                        share|cite|improve this answer











                        $endgroup$
















                          1












                          1








                          1





                          $begingroup$

                          I’ve just worked through this problem myself, and as posed Perrin doesn’t specify that the field is algebraically closed. In fact it doesn’t need to be, and this is where the condition that $V(F)$ is infinite is used.



                          There is a lemma (proved in Section 1.1 of Shafarevich’s Basic Algebraic Geometry 1) which states:




                          For an arbitrary field $k$, let $F,Gin k[X,Y]$ with $F$ irreducible. If $Fnmid G$ then the system of equations $F(x,y)=G(x,y)=0$ has only finitely many solutions.




                          Now, clearly $(F)subseteq I(V(F))$. Since $k[X,Y]$ is Noetherian we can write $I(V(F))=(G_1,ldots, G_n)$ for some $G_iin k[X,Y]$. We then have $$V(F)=V(I(V(F)))=V(G_1,ldots,G_n)$$



                          Then each point $(x,y)in V(F)$ satisfies $F(x,y)=G_i(x,y)=0$. Since $V(F)$ is infinite, then by the lemma we have $Fmid G_i$ and so $G_i=H_iF$ for some $H_iin k[X,Y]$. This yields $$I(V(F))=(G_1,ldots,G_n)=(H_1F,ldots,H_nF)subseteq(F)$$



                          So $I(V(F))=(F)$ and we are done.






                          share|cite|improve this answer











                          $endgroup$



                          I’ve just worked through this problem myself, and as posed Perrin doesn’t specify that the field is algebraically closed. In fact it doesn’t need to be, and this is where the condition that $V(F)$ is infinite is used.



                          There is a lemma (proved in Section 1.1 of Shafarevich’s Basic Algebraic Geometry 1) which states:




                          For an arbitrary field $k$, let $F,Gin k[X,Y]$ with $F$ irreducible. If $Fnmid G$ then the system of equations $F(x,y)=G(x,y)=0$ has only finitely many solutions.




                          Now, clearly $(F)subseteq I(V(F))$. Since $k[X,Y]$ is Noetherian we can write $I(V(F))=(G_1,ldots, G_n)$ for some $G_iin k[X,Y]$. We then have $$V(F)=V(I(V(F)))=V(G_1,ldots,G_n)$$



                          Then each point $(x,y)in V(F)$ satisfies $F(x,y)=G_i(x,y)=0$. Since $V(F)$ is infinite, then by the lemma we have $Fmid G_i$ and so $G_i=H_iF$ for some $H_iin k[X,Y]$. This yields $$I(V(F))=(G_1,ldots,G_n)=(H_1F,ldots,H_nF)subseteq(F)$$



                          So $I(V(F))=(F)$ and we are done.







                          share|cite|improve this answer














                          share|cite|improve this answer



                          share|cite|improve this answer








                          edited Feb 8 at 17:43

























                          answered Feb 8 at 17:21









                          DaveDave

                          426




                          426






























                              draft saved

                              draft discarded




















































                              Thanks for contributing an answer to Mathematics Stack Exchange!


                              • Please be sure to answer the question. Provide details and share your research!

                              But avoid



                              • Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers.

                              • Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience.


                              Use MathJax to format equations. MathJax reference.


                              To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers.




                              draft saved


                              draft discarded














                              StackExchange.ready(
                              function () {
                              StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fmath.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f3050230%2fshow-ivf-f-when-f-is-irreducible%23new-answer', 'question_page');
                              }
                              );

                              Post as a guest















                              Required, but never shown





















































                              Required, but never shown














                              Required, but never shown












                              Required, but never shown







                              Required, but never shown

































                              Required, but never shown














                              Required, but never shown












                              Required, but never shown







                              Required, but never shown







                              Popular posts from this blog

                              To store a contact into the json file from server.js file using a class in NodeJS

                              Redirect URL with Chrome Remote Debugging Android Devices

                              Dieringhausen