Can a Lightning channel's initial BTC value be updated?
When an LN channel is created, it is funded with an initial BTC amount by at least one one peer. But given that most of the whole idea of LN is the existence of long running channels, I wonder if this means that it's possible for a channel to be "emptied", thus making "long running" a bit of a misnomer. Is it therefore possible for the channel's creator to "top up" the channel?
lightning-network payment
asked Jan 6 at 21:19
therusstheruss
1156
add a comment |
When an LN channel is created, it is funded with an initial BTC amount by at least one one peer. But given that most of the whole idea of LN is the existence of long running channels, I wonder if this means that it's possible for a channel to be "emptied", thus making "long running" a bit of a misnomer. Is it therefore possible for the channel's creator to "top up" the channel?
lightning-network payment
asked Jan 6 at 21:19
therusstheruss
1156
There is some work being done here with splicing, where the channel partipants agree to spend the output of the opening TX together with additional inputs to a new multisig output from which to create commitment txs, thereby increasing channel capacity.
– James C.
Jan 6 at 21:39
Splicing in and splicing out, as funds could also be reduced. However both results in a new tx confirmed on chain, which is the cost of adjusting the channel capacity after it has been opened.
– James C.
Jan 6 at 21:41
add a comment |
When an LN channel is created, it is funded with an initial BTC amount by at least one one peer. But given that most of the whole idea of LN is the existence of long running channels, I wonder if this means that it's possible for a channel to be "emptied", thus making "long running" a bit of a misnomer. Is it therefore possible for the channel's creator to "top up" the channel?
lightning-network payment
asked Jan 6 at 21:19
therusstheruss
1156
When an LN channel is created, it is funded with an initial BTC amount by at least one one peer. But given that most of the whole idea of LN is the existence of long running channels, I wonder if this means that it's possible for a channel to be "emptied", thus making "long running" a bit of a misnomer. Is it therefore possible for the channel's creator to "top up" the channel?
lightning-network payment
lightning-network payment
asked Jan 6 at 21:19
therusstheruss
1156
asked Jan 6 at 21:19
therusstheruss
1156
asked Jan 6 at 21:19
therusstheruss
1156
asked Jan 6 at 21:19
therusstheruss
1156
asked Jan 6 at 21:19
therusstheruss
1156
1156
There is some work being done here with splicing, where the channel partipants agree to spend the output of the opening TX together with additional inputs to a new multisig output from which to create commitment txs, thereby increasing channel capacity.
– James C.
Jan 6 at 21:39
Splicing in and splicing out, as funds could also be reduced. However both results in a new tx confirmed on chain, which is the cost of adjusting the channel capacity after it has been opened.
– James C.
Jan 6 at 21:41
add a comment |
There is some work being done here with splicing, where the channel partipants agree to spend the output of the opening TX together with additional inputs to a new multisig output from which to create commitment txs, thereby increasing channel capacity.
– James C.
Jan 6 at 21:39
Splicing in and splicing out, as funds could also be reduced. However both results in a new tx confirmed on chain, which is the cost of adjusting the channel capacity after it has been opened.
– James C.
Jan 6 at 21:41
There is some work being done here with splicing, where the channel partipants agree to spend the output of the opening TX together with additional inputs to a new multisig output from which to create commitment txs, thereby increasing channel capacity.
– James C.
Jan 6 at 21:39
There is some work being done here with splicing, where the channel partipants agree to spend the output of the opening TX together with additional inputs to a new multisig output from which to create commitment txs, thereby increasing channel capacity.
– James C.
Jan 6 at 21:39
Splicing in and splicing out, as funds could also be reduced. However both results in a new tx confirmed on chain, which is the cost of adjusting the channel capacity after it has been opened.
– James C.
Jan 6 at 21:41
Splicing in and splicing out, as funds could also be reduced. However both results in a new tx confirmed on chain, which is the cost of adjusting the channel capacity after it has been opened.
– James C.
Jan 6 at 21:41
add a comment |
2 Answers
2
active
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votes
No. The amount of money in a channel cannot be changed once the channel exists. Channels cannot be topped up nor can they be "cashed out". Any change to the channel balance would require using new outputs and funding transactions. If it were the same channel (so the channel state is not committed to the blockchain), then fraud could occur where an old commitment transaction is broadcast that was from before new funds were added to the channel.
However, there is work on splicing, but that's more like closing a channel and jointly opening a new one.
answered Jan 6 at 21:44
Andrew Chow♦Andrew Chow
33.5k42462
Thanks both of you for your time. Very helpful.
– theruss
Jan 6 at 21:56
though it is not quite clear which of the splicing proposals will be used so I would say it is only one way to splice a channel to close and jointly open a new one. Technically splicing should run asynchronously in the sense that the channel stays operationally during the splicing operation
– Rene Pickhardt
Jan 6 at 22:00
add a comment |
Currently the capacity of a channel stays the same. However on the Lightning Developer Summit in Australia in November 2018 it was agreed that Splicing should be added to lightning. With splicing you can increase or decrease the capacity of a channel (and your balance)
If you don't care about capacity but just about the balance and you want to refill the channel of your channel there are four things you can do:
- You can receive a lightning payment by selling some good (:
- If you just fund to fill up capacity you could use a submarine swap which works by sending bitcoin in order to pay for a lightning invoice.
- You can also use exchange services like zigzag.io in order to send money from your channel to a bitcoin address.
- You can route a payment to yourself in order to rebalance 2 of your channels.
answered Jan 6 at 21:58
Rene PickhardtRene Pickhardt
2,578117
add a comment |
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2 Answers
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active
oldest
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2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
No. The amount of money in a channel cannot be changed once the channel exists. Channels cannot be topped up nor can they be "cashed out". Any change to the channel balance would require using new outputs and funding transactions. If it were the same channel (so the channel state is not committed to the blockchain), then fraud could occur where an old commitment transaction is broadcast that was from before new funds were added to the channel.
However, there is work on splicing, but that's more like closing a channel and jointly opening a new one.
answered Jan 6 at 21:44
Andrew Chow♦Andrew Chow
33.5k42462
Thanks both of you for your time. Very helpful.
– theruss
Jan 6 at 21:56
though it is not quite clear which of the splicing proposals will be used so I would say it is only one way to splice a channel to close and jointly open a new one. Technically splicing should run asynchronously in the sense that the channel stays operationally during the splicing operation
– Rene Pickhardt
Jan 6 at 22:00
add a comment |
No. The amount of money in a channel cannot be changed once the channel exists. Channels cannot be topped up nor can they be "cashed out". Any change to the channel balance would require using new outputs and funding transactions. If it were the same channel (so the channel state is not committed to the blockchain), then fraud could occur where an old commitment transaction is broadcast that was from before new funds were added to the channel.
However, there is work on splicing, but that's more like closing a channel and jointly opening a new one.
answered Jan 6 at 21:44
Andrew Chow♦Andrew Chow
33.5k42462
Thanks both of you for your time. Very helpful.
– theruss
Jan 6 at 21:56
though it is not quite clear which of the splicing proposals will be used so I would say it is only one way to splice a channel to close and jointly open a new one. Technically splicing should run asynchronously in the sense that the channel stays operationally during the splicing operation
– Rene Pickhardt
Jan 6 at 22:00
add a comment |
No. The amount of money in a channel cannot be changed once the channel exists. Channels cannot be topped up nor can they be "cashed out". Any change to the channel balance would require using new outputs and funding transactions. If it were the same channel (so the channel state is not committed to the blockchain), then fraud could occur where an old commitment transaction is broadcast that was from before new funds were added to the channel.
However, there is work on splicing, but that's more like closing a channel and jointly opening a new one.
answered Jan 6 at 21:44
Andrew Chow♦Andrew Chow
33.5k42462
No. The amount of money in a channel cannot be changed once the channel exists. Channels cannot be topped up nor can they be "cashed out". Any change to the channel balance would require using new outputs and funding transactions. If it were the same channel (so the channel state is not committed to the blockchain), then fraud could occur where an old commitment transaction is broadcast that was from before new funds were added to the channel.
However, there is work on splicing, but that's more like closing a channel and jointly opening a new one.
answered Jan 6 at 21:44
Andrew Chow♦Andrew Chow
33.5k42462
answered Jan 6 at 21:44
Andrew Chow♦Andrew Chow
33.5k42462
answered Jan 6 at 21:44
Andrew Chow♦Andrew Chow
33.5k42462
answered Jan 6 at 21:44
Andrew Chow♦Andrew Chow
33.5k42462
33.5k42462
Thanks both of you for your time. Very helpful.
– theruss
Jan 6 at 21:56
though it is not quite clear which of the splicing proposals will be used so I would say it is only one way to splice a channel to close and jointly open a new one. Technically splicing should run asynchronously in the sense that the channel stays operationally during the splicing operation
– Rene Pickhardt
Jan 6 at 22:00
add a comment |
Thanks both of you for your time. Very helpful.
– theruss
Jan 6 at 21:56
though it is not quite clear which of the splicing proposals will be used so I would say it is only one way to splice a channel to close and jointly open a new one. Technically splicing should run asynchronously in the sense that the channel stays operationally during the splicing operation
– Rene Pickhardt
Jan 6 at 22:00
Thanks both of you for your time. Very helpful.
– theruss
Jan 6 at 21:56
Thanks both of you for your time. Very helpful.
– theruss
Jan 6 at 21:56
though it is not quite clear which of the splicing proposals will be used so I would say it is only one way to splice a channel to close and jointly open a new one. Technically splicing should run asynchronously in the sense that the channel stays operationally during the splicing operation
– Rene Pickhardt
Jan 6 at 22:00
though it is not quite clear which of the splicing proposals will be used so I would say it is only one way to splice a channel to close and jointly open a new one. Technically splicing should run asynchronously in the sense that the channel stays operationally during the splicing operation
– Rene Pickhardt
Jan 6 at 22:00
add a comment |
Currently the capacity of a channel stays the same. However on the Lightning Developer Summit in Australia in November 2018 it was agreed that Splicing should be added to lightning. With splicing you can increase or decrease the capacity of a channel (and your balance)
If you don't care about capacity but just about the balance and you want to refill the channel of your channel there are four things you can do:
- You can receive a lightning payment by selling some good (:
- If you just fund to fill up capacity you could use a submarine swap which works by sending bitcoin in order to pay for a lightning invoice.
- You can also use exchange services like zigzag.io in order to send money from your channel to a bitcoin address.
- You can route a payment to yourself in order to rebalance 2 of your channels.
answered Jan 6 at 21:58
Rene PickhardtRene Pickhardt
2,578117
add a comment |
Currently the capacity of a channel stays the same. However on the Lightning Developer Summit in Australia in November 2018 it was agreed that Splicing should be added to lightning. With splicing you can increase or decrease the capacity of a channel (and your balance)
If you don't care about capacity but just about the balance and you want to refill the channel of your channel there are four things you can do:
- You can receive a lightning payment by selling some good (:
- If you just fund to fill up capacity you could use a submarine swap which works by sending bitcoin in order to pay for a lightning invoice.
- You can also use exchange services like zigzag.io in order to send money from your channel to a bitcoin address.
- You can route a payment to yourself in order to rebalance 2 of your channels.
answered Jan 6 at 21:58
Rene PickhardtRene Pickhardt
2,578117
add a comment |
Currently the capacity of a channel stays the same. However on the Lightning Developer Summit in Australia in November 2018 it was agreed that Splicing should be added to lightning. With splicing you can increase or decrease the capacity of a channel (and your balance)
If you don't care about capacity but just about the balance and you want to refill the channel of your channel there are four things you can do:
- You can receive a lightning payment by selling some good (:
- If you just fund to fill up capacity you could use a submarine swap which works by sending bitcoin in order to pay for a lightning invoice.
- You can also use exchange services like zigzag.io in order to send money from your channel to a bitcoin address.
- You can route a payment to yourself in order to rebalance 2 of your channels.
answered Jan 6 at 21:58
Rene PickhardtRene Pickhardt
2,578117
Currently the capacity of a channel stays the same. However on the Lightning Developer Summit in Australia in November 2018 it was agreed that Splicing should be added to lightning. With splicing you can increase or decrease the capacity of a channel (and your balance)
If you don't care about capacity but just about the balance and you want to refill the channel of your channel there are four things you can do:
- You can receive a lightning payment by selling some good (:
- If you just fund to fill up capacity you could use a submarine swap which works by sending bitcoin in order to pay for a lightning invoice.
- You can also use exchange services like zigzag.io in order to send money from your channel to a bitcoin address.
- You can route a payment to yourself in order to rebalance 2 of your channels.
answered Jan 6 at 21:58
Rene PickhardtRene Pickhardt
2,578117
answered Jan 6 at 21:58
Rene PickhardtRene Pickhardt
2,578117
answered Jan 6 at 21:58
Rene PickhardtRene Pickhardt
2,578117
answered Jan 6 at 21:58
Rene PickhardtRene Pickhardt
2,578117
2,578117
add a comment |
add a comment |
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There is some work being done here with splicing, where the channel partipants agree to spend the output of the opening TX together with additional inputs to a new multisig output from which to create commitment txs, thereby increasing channel capacity.
– James C.
Jan 6 at 21:39
Splicing in and splicing out, as funds could also be reduced. However both results in a new tx confirmed on chain, which is the cost of adjusting the channel capacity after it has been opened.
– James C.
Jan 6 at 21:41