An example of neither open nor closed set
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18
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I need a very simple example of a set of real numbers (if there is any) that is neither closed nor open, along with an explanation of why it is so.
general-topology
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up vote
18
down vote
favorite
I need a very simple example of a set of real numbers (if there is any) that is neither closed nor open, along with an explanation of why it is so.
general-topology
add a comment |
up vote
18
down vote
favorite
up vote
18
down vote
favorite
I need a very simple example of a set of real numbers (if there is any) that is neither closed nor open, along with an explanation of why it is so.
general-topology
I need a very simple example of a set of real numbers (if there is any) that is neither closed nor open, along with an explanation of why it is so.
general-topology
general-topology
edited Sep 2 at 9:39
Gaurang Tandon
3,50022147
3,50022147
asked Aug 24 '12 at 0:27
Monkey D. Luffy
7322822
7322822
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6 Answers
6
active
oldest
votes
up vote
32
down vote
accepted
$[0,1)$
It is not open because there is no $epsilon > 0$ such that $(0-epsilon,0+epsilon) subseteq [0,1)$.
It is not closed because $1$ is a limit point of the set which is not contained in it.
One last Question, does the set has be connected? for example:- [1,2]U[3,4] ... what can we say about this set?
– Monkey D. Luffy
Aug 24 '12 at 0:36
2
@MonkeyD.Luffy A finite union of closed sets is closed, an arbitrary intersection of closed sets is closed. DeMorgan's Law gives you the analogous statements for open sets.
– Eugene Shvarts
Aug 24 '12 at 0:37
add a comment |
up vote
19
down vote
For a slightly more exotic example, the rationals, $mathbb{Q}$.
They are not open because any interval about a rational point $r$, $(r-epsilon,r+epsilon)$, contains an irrational point.
They are not closed because every irrational point is the limit of a sequence of rational points. If $s$ is irrational, consider the sequence $left{ dfrac{lfloor10^n srfloor}{10^n} right}.$
$mathbb Q$ is exotic?
– celtschk
Sep 2 at 10:28
add a comment |
up vote
13
down vote
Let $A = {frac{1}{n} : n in mathbb{N}}$.
$A$ is not closed since $0$ is a limit point of $A$, but $0 notin A$.
$A$ is not open since every ball around any point contains a point in $mathbb{R} - A$.
add a comment |
up vote
5
down vote
Take $mathbb{R}$ with the finite complement topology - that is, the open sets are exactly those with finite complement. Then $[0,1]$ is neither open nor closed. It is not open since $mathbb{R}setminus [0,1]=(-infty,0) cup (1,infty)$ is not finite, and it is not closed since its complement, $(-infty,0) cup (1,infty)$, is not open, as just demonstrated.
add a comment |
up vote
2
down vote
The interval $left ( 0,1 right )$ as a subset of $mathbb{R}^{2}$, that is $left { left ( x,0 right ) in mathbb{R}^{2}: x in left ( 0,1 right )right }$ is neither open nor closed because none of its points are interior points and $left ( 1,0 right )$ is a limit point not in the set.
add a comment |
up vote
0
down vote
The rational numbers $mathbb{Q}$ are neither open nor closed. Recall a subset S of a metric space X space is open if every point x in S has an $epsilon$-neighborhood $N_{epsilon}(x)$ that is a proper subset of S. And a set is closed if(and only if) its complement is open. So $forall (q in mathbb{Q},r in [mathbb{R} setminus mathbb{Q}], epsilon > 0, lambda > 0)$ , $N_{epsilon}(q) cap [mathbb{R} setminusmathbb{Q}]neq emptyset$ and $N_{lambda}(r) cap mathbb{Q} neq emptyset$. So $mathbb{Q}$ is not open since every $epsilon$-neighborhood or a rational number contains irrationals. But its complement $ [mathbb{R} setminusmathbb{Q}]$, the set of irrational numbers, is also not open since no $epsilon$-neighborhoods or irrationals contain exclusively irrationals. But the complement of the rationals is not open, so $mathbb{Q}$ cannot be closed either. Therefore, the set of rationals is neither open nor closed.
Might I add: most of the previous examples are of sets that are both open and closed(like the half-open intervals of the real line [0,1) for example).
add a comment |
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6 Answers
6
active
oldest
votes
6 Answers
6
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
up vote
32
down vote
accepted
$[0,1)$
It is not open because there is no $epsilon > 0$ such that $(0-epsilon,0+epsilon) subseteq [0,1)$.
It is not closed because $1$ is a limit point of the set which is not contained in it.
One last Question, does the set has be connected? for example:- [1,2]U[3,4] ... what can we say about this set?
– Monkey D. Luffy
Aug 24 '12 at 0:36
2
@MonkeyD.Luffy A finite union of closed sets is closed, an arbitrary intersection of closed sets is closed. DeMorgan's Law gives you the analogous statements for open sets.
– Eugene Shvarts
Aug 24 '12 at 0:37
add a comment |
up vote
32
down vote
accepted
$[0,1)$
It is not open because there is no $epsilon > 0$ such that $(0-epsilon,0+epsilon) subseteq [0,1)$.
It is not closed because $1$ is a limit point of the set which is not contained in it.
One last Question, does the set has be connected? for example:- [1,2]U[3,4] ... what can we say about this set?
– Monkey D. Luffy
Aug 24 '12 at 0:36
2
@MonkeyD.Luffy A finite union of closed sets is closed, an arbitrary intersection of closed sets is closed. DeMorgan's Law gives you the analogous statements for open sets.
– Eugene Shvarts
Aug 24 '12 at 0:37
add a comment |
up vote
32
down vote
accepted
up vote
32
down vote
accepted
$[0,1)$
It is not open because there is no $epsilon > 0$ such that $(0-epsilon,0+epsilon) subseteq [0,1)$.
It is not closed because $1$ is a limit point of the set which is not contained in it.
$[0,1)$
It is not open because there is no $epsilon > 0$ such that $(0-epsilon,0+epsilon) subseteq [0,1)$.
It is not closed because $1$ is a limit point of the set which is not contained in it.
answered Aug 24 '12 at 0:28
user642796
44.4k558115
44.4k558115
One last Question, does the set has be connected? for example:- [1,2]U[3,4] ... what can we say about this set?
– Monkey D. Luffy
Aug 24 '12 at 0:36
2
@MonkeyD.Luffy A finite union of closed sets is closed, an arbitrary intersection of closed sets is closed. DeMorgan's Law gives you the analogous statements for open sets.
– Eugene Shvarts
Aug 24 '12 at 0:37
add a comment |
One last Question, does the set has be connected? for example:- [1,2]U[3,4] ... what can we say about this set?
– Monkey D. Luffy
Aug 24 '12 at 0:36
2
@MonkeyD.Luffy A finite union of closed sets is closed, an arbitrary intersection of closed sets is closed. DeMorgan's Law gives you the analogous statements for open sets.
– Eugene Shvarts
Aug 24 '12 at 0:37
One last Question, does the set has be connected? for example:- [1,2]U[3,4] ... what can we say about this set?
– Monkey D. Luffy
Aug 24 '12 at 0:36
One last Question, does the set has be connected? for example:- [1,2]U[3,4] ... what can we say about this set?
– Monkey D. Luffy
Aug 24 '12 at 0:36
2
2
@MonkeyD.Luffy A finite union of closed sets is closed, an arbitrary intersection of closed sets is closed. DeMorgan's Law gives you the analogous statements for open sets.
– Eugene Shvarts
Aug 24 '12 at 0:37
@MonkeyD.Luffy A finite union of closed sets is closed, an arbitrary intersection of closed sets is closed. DeMorgan's Law gives you the analogous statements for open sets.
– Eugene Shvarts
Aug 24 '12 at 0:37
add a comment |
up vote
19
down vote
For a slightly more exotic example, the rationals, $mathbb{Q}$.
They are not open because any interval about a rational point $r$, $(r-epsilon,r+epsilon)$, contains an irrational point.
They are not closed because every irrational point is the limit of a sequence of rational points. If $s$ is irrational, consider the sequence $left{ dfrac{lfloor10^n srfloor}{10^n} right}.$
$mathbb Q$ is exotic?
– celtschk
Sep 2 at 10:28
add a comment |
up vote
19
down vote
For a slightly more exotic example, the rationals, $mathbb{Q}$.
They are not open because any interval about a rational point $r$, $(r-epsilon,r+epsilon)$, contains an irrational point.
They are not closed because every irrational point is the limit of a sequence of rational points. If $s$ is irrational, consider the sequence $left{ dfrac{lfloor10^n srfloor}{10^n} right}.$
$mathbb Q$ is exotic?
– celtschk
Sep 2 at 10:28
add a comment |
up vote
19
down vote
up vote
19
down vote
For a slightly more exotic example, the rationals, $mathbb{Q}$.
They are not open because any interval about a rational point $r$, $(r-epsilon,r+epsilon)$, contains an irrational point.
They are not closed because every irrational point is the limit of a sequence of rational points. If $s$ is irrational, consider the sequence $left{ dfrac{lfloor10^n srfloor}{10^n} right}.$
For a slightly more exotic example, the rationals, $mathbb{Q}$.
They are not open because any interval about a rational point $r$, $(r-epsilon,r+epsilon)$, contains an irrational point.
They are not closed because every irrational point is the limit of a sequence of rational points. If $s$ is irrational, consider the sequence $left{ dfrac{lfloor10^n srfloor}{10^n} right}.$
answered Aug 24 '12 at 0:32
Eugene Shvarts
1,2371014
1,2371014
$mathbb Q$ is exotic?
– celtschk
Sep 2 at 10:28
add a comment |
$mathbb Q$ is exotic?
– celtschk
Sep 2 at 10:28
$mathbb Q$ is exotic?
– celtschk
Sep 2 at 10:28
$mathbb Q$ is exotic?
– celtschk
Sep 2 at 10:28
add a comment |
up vote
13
down vote
Let $A = {frac{1}{n} : n in mathbb{N}}$.
$A$ is not closed since $0$ is a limit point of $A$, but $0 notin A$.
$A$ is not open since every ball around any point contains a point in $mathbb{R} - A$.
add a comment |
up vote
13
down vote
Let $A = {frac{1}{n} : n in mathbb{N}}$.
$A$ is not closed since $0$ is a limit point of $A$, but $0 notin A$.
$A$ is not open since every ball around any point contains a point in $mathbb{R} - A$.
add a comment |
up vote
13
down vote
up vote
13
down vote
Let $A = {frac{1}{n} : n in mathbb{N}}$.
$A$ is not closed since $0$ is a limit point of $A$, but $0 notin A$.
$A$ is not open since every ball around any point contains a point in $mathbb{R} - A$.
Let $A = {frac{1}{n} : n in mathbb{N}}$.
$A$ is not closed since $0$ is a limit point of $A$, but $0 notin A$.
$A$ is not open since every ball around any point contains a point in $mathbb{R} - A$.
answered Aug 24 '12 at 0:38
user898033
44128
44128
add a comment |
add a comment |
up vote
5
down vote
Take $mathbb{R}$ with the finite complement topology - that is, the open sets are exactly those with finite complement. Then $[0,1]$ is neither open nor closed. It is not open since $mathbb{R}setminus [0,1]=(-infty,0) cup (1,infty)$ is not finite, and it is not closed since its complement, $(-infty,0) cup (1,infty)$, is not open, as just demonstrated.
add a comment |
up vote
5
down vote
Take $mathbb{R}$ with the finite complement topology - that is, the open sets are exactly those with finite complement. Then $[0,1]$ is neither open nor closed. It is not open since $mathbb{R}setminus [0,1]=(-infty,0) cup (1,infty)$ is not finite, and it is not closed since its complement, $(-infty,0) cup (1,infty)$, is not open, as just demonstrated.
add a comment |
up vote
5
down vote
up vote
5
down vote
Take $mathbb{R}$ with the finite complement topology - that is, the open sets are exactly those with finite complement. Then $[0,1]$ is neither open nor closed. It is not open since $mathbb{R}setminus [0,1]=(-infty,0) cup (1,infty)$ is not finite, and it is not closed since its complement, $(-infty,0) cup (1,infty)$, is not open, as just demonstrated.
Take $mathbb{R}$ with the finite complement topology - that is, the open sets are exactly those with finite complement. Then $[0,1]$ is neither open nor closed. It is not open since $mathbb{R}setminus [0,1]=(-infty,0) cup (1,infty)$ is not finite, and it is not closed since its complement, $(-infty,0) cup (1,infty)$, is not open, as just demonstrated.
answered Aug 24 '12 at 0:33
Alex Petzke
3,95923569
3,95923569
add a comment |
add a comment |
up vote
2
down vote
The interval $left ( 0,1 right )$ as a subset of $mathbb{R}^{2}$, that is $left { left ( x,0 right ) in mathbb{R}^{2}: x in left ( 0,1 right )right }$ is neither open nor closed because none of its points are interior points and $left ( 1,0 right )$ is a limit point not in the set.
add a comment |
up vote
2
down vote
The interval $left ( 0,1 right )$ as a subset of $mathbb{R}^{2}$, that is $left { left ( x,0 right ) in mathbb{R}^{2}: x in left ( 0,1 right )right }$ is neither open nor closed because none of its points are interior points and $left ( 1,0 right )$ is a limit point not in the set.
add a comment |
up vote
2
down vote
up vote
2
down vote
The interval $left ( 0,1 right )$ as a subset of $mathbb{R}^{2}$, that is $left { left ( x,0 right ) in mathbb{R}^{2}: x in left ( 0,1 right )right }$ is neither open nor closed because none of its points are interior points and $left ( 1,0 right )$ is a limit point not in the set.
The interval $left ( 0,1 right )$ as a subset of $mathbb{R}^{2}$, that is $left { left ( x,0 right ) in mathbb{R}^{2}: x in left ( 0,1 right )right }$ is neither open nor closed because none of its points are interior points and $left ( 1,0 right )$ is a limit point not in the set.
edited Aug 3 '15 at 13:21
answered Aug 3 '15 at 9:19
OGC
1,41921228
1,41921228
add a comment |
add a comment |
up vote
0
down vote
The rational numbers $mathbb{Q}$ are neither open nor closed. Recall a subset S of a metric space X space is open if every point x in S has an $epsilon$-neighborhood $N_{epsilon}(x)$ that is a proper subset of S. And a set is closed if(and only if) its complement is open. So $forall (q in mathbb{Q},r in [mathbb{R} setminus mathbb{Q}], epsilon > 0, lambda > 0)$ , $N_{epsilon}(q) cap [mathbb{R} setminusmathbb{Q}]neq emptyset$ and $N_{lambda}(r) cap mathbb{Q} neq emptyset$. So $mathbb{Q}$ is not open since every $epsilon$-neighborhood or a rational number contains irrationals. But its complement $ [mathbb{R} setminusmathbb{Q}]$, the set of irrational numbers, is also not open since no $epsilon$-neighborhoods or irrationals contain exclusively irrationals. But the complement of the rationals is not open, so $mathbb{Q}$ cannot be closed either. Therefore, the set of rationals is neither open nor closed.
Might I add: most of the previous examples are of sets that are both open and closed(like the half-open intervals of the real line [0,1) for example).
add a comment |
up vote
0
down vote
The rational numbers $mathbb{Q}$ are neither open nor closed. Recall a subset S of a metric space X space is open if every point x in S has an $epsilon$-neighborhood $N_{epsilon}(x)$ that is a proper subset of S. And a set is closed if(and only if) its complement is open. So $forall (q in mathbb{Q},r in [mathbb{R} setminus mathbb{Q}], epsilon > 0, lambda > 0)$ , $N_{epsilon}(q) cap [mathbb{R} setminusmathbb{Q}]neq emptyset$ and $N_{lambda}(r) cap mathbb{Q} neq emptyset$. So $mathbb{Q}$ is not open since every $epsilon$-neighborhood or a rational number contains irrationals. But its complement $ [mathbb{R} setminusmathbb{Q}]$, the set of irrational numbers, is also not open since no $epsilon$-neighborhoods or irrationals contain exclusively irrationals. But the complement of the rationals is not open, so $mathbb{Q}$ cannot be closed either. Therefore, the set of rationals is neither open nor closed.
Might I add: most of the previous examples are of sets that are both open and closed(like the half-open intervals of the real line [0,1) for example).
add a comment |
up vote
0
down vote
up vote
0
down vote
The rational numbers $mathbb{Q}$ are neither open nor closed. Recall a subset S of a metric space X space is open if every point x in S has an $epsilon$-neighborhood $N_{epsilon}(x)$ that is a proper subset of S. And a set is closed if(and only if) its complement is open. So $forall (q in mathbb{Q},r in [mathbb{R} setminus mathbb{Q}], epsilon > 0, lambda > 0)$ , $N_{epsilon}(q) cap [mathbb{R} setminusmathbb{Q}]neq emptyset$ and $N_{lambda}(r) cap mathbb{Q} neq emptyset$. So $mathbb{Q}$ is not open since every $epsilon$-neighborhood or a rational number contains irrationals. But its complement $ [mathbb{R} setminusmathbb{Q}]$, the set of irrational numbers, is also not open since no $epsilon$-neighborhoods or irrationals contain exclusively irrationals. But the complement of the rationals is not open, so $mathbb{Q}$ cannot be closed either. Therefore, the set of rationals is neither open nor closed.
Might I add: most of the previous examples are of sets that are both open and closed(like the half-open intervals of the real line [0,1) for example).
The rational numbers $mathbb{Q}$ are neither open nor closed. Recall a subset S of a metric space X space is open if every point x in S has an $epsilon$-neighborhood $N_{epsilon}(x)$ that is a proper subset of S. And a set is closed if(and only if) its complement is open. So $forall (q in mathbb{Q},r in [mathbb{R} setminus mathbb{Q}], epsilon > 0, lambda > 0)$ , $N_{epsilon}(q) cap [mathbb{R} setminusmathbb{Q}]neq emptyset$ and $N_{lambda}(r) cap mathbb{Q} neq emptyset$. So $mathbb{Q}$ is not open since every $epsilon$-neighborhood or a rational number contains irrationals. But its complement $ [mathbb{R} setminusmathbb{Q}]$, the set of irrational numbers, is also not open since no $epsilon$-neighborhoods or irrationals contain exclusively irrationals. But the complement of the rationals is not open, so $mathbb{Q}$ cannot be closed either. Therefore, the set of rationals is neither open nor closed.
Might I add: most of the previous examples are of sets that are both open and closed(like the half-open intervals of the real line [0,1) for example).
edited Nov 27 at 4:55
answered Nov 26 at 21:46
Mr X
19311
19311
add a comment |
add a comment |
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