Order properties of the empty relation on the empty set, and a related question
$begingroup$
Context / Disclosure on the Origins of the Question:
My question is motivated by an MSE question posted earlier today which ultimately was closed. I was thinking about it when it was posted, just for its own sake: I never contended with relations on the empty set in my coursework, and vacuous logic was always something I felt I had a tenuous understanding of at best. So I wanted to make sure my own personal understanding of the question was okay, plus it also made me think of a related question which I ask here.
While I understand that usually reposting previously-closed questions is frowned upon, I feel like in the spirit of this post on Meta, my elaborations and attempts might make me reposting this question worthwhile, and useful for people who come by in the future.
Below, I employ a more proper formulation of the question (that being which of the four properties the empty relation has), and ask a question based on some of the results I saw.
Formulation of the Question:
Since the empty set is a subset of every set, i.e. $emptyset subseteq emptyset$, we can consider the empty relation on the empty set. In studying relations, there are four particular properties we're interested in.
Definitions: Let $R$ be a relation on a set $S$, i.e. $R subseteq S times S:$. Then we define four properties of $R$ by the following:
Reflexivity: $forall x in S, (x,x) in R$
Transitivity: $forall x,y,z in S, (x,y), (y,z) in R implies (x,z) in R$
Symmetry: $forall x,y in S, (x,y) in R iff (y,x) in R$
Anti-Symmetry: $forall x,y in S, (x,y), (y,x) in R iff x=y$
With that in mind, we want to see which of these properties the empty relation on the empty set has.
My Attempts:
For ease in notation, we let $R$ be the empty relation on $emptyset$, i.e. $R subseteq emptyset times emptyset = emptyset$.
Each proof follows through vacuous logic. To my understanding, we can look at each definition from before as an "if this then that" statement - symbolically, $P implies Q$. If $P$ is always false, then the overall statement is always true, and thus the definition satisfied. So we investigate each property in that light:
Reflexivity: Since there exists no $x in emptyset$, there is no element $x$ such that $(x,x) not in R$. Thus, vacuously, $R$ is reflexive.
Transitivity: Similarly, there exists no $(x,y), (y,z) in R$, so for all such pairs $(x,z) in R$. Thus, vacuously, $R$ is transitive.
Symmetry: For every $(x,y) in R$, none of which exist, we cannot say there is no $(y,x) in R$. Therefore, vacuously, $R$ is symmetric.
Anti-Symmetric: There are no $(x,y), (y,x) in R$, and therefore, for all such pairs, vacuously $x=y$ and $R$ is anti-symmetric.
My Questions:
Are the above proofs, if not fully formal, at least in the right line of thinking? Are there any particular errors?
I noticed that, if so, the empty relation is both symmetric and anti-symmetric. Intuitively, I feel like this is almost self-contradicting (but that's probably an issue in the terminology). Is this a particularly common property for relations that don't involve the empty set and aren't artificially constructed to be this way? I know that per Alessandro Codenotti's answer to this related question the equality relation is both antisymmetric and symmetric. A post on Physics Forums indicates that the only relations which are both symmetric and antisymmetric where $S$ is nonempty are relations
$$R = {(x,x) | x in S } subseteq S times S$$
This would suggest such relations $R$ are very rare, and not entirely interesting or useful (aside from the aforementioned equality relation). Is this really the case? Do no other such relations exist for nonempty $S$? If so, how would one show that? (Showing this $R$ is indeed both is trivial. Showing no other such $R$ exist ... I'm not sure how to do that.)
discrete-mathematics proof-verification elementary-set-theory relations
$endgroup$
|
show 2 more comments
$begingroup$
Context / Disclosure on the Origins of the Question:
My question is motivated by an MSE question posted earlier today which ultimately was closed. I was thinking about it when it was posted, just for its own sake: I never contended with relations on the empty set in my coursework, and vacuous logic was always something I felt I had a tenuous understanding of at best. So I wanted to make sure my own personal understanding of the question was okay, plus it also made me think of a related question which I ask here.
While I understand that usually reposting previously-closed questions is frowned upon, I feel like in the spirit of this post on Meta, my elaborations and attempts might make me reposting this question worthwhile, and useful for people who come by in the future.
Below, I employ a more proper formulation of the question (that being which of the four properties the empty relation has), and ask a question based on some of the results I saw.
Formulation of the Question:
Since the empty set is a subset of every set, i.e. $emptyset subseteq emptyset$, we can consider the empty relation on the empty set. In studying relations, there are four particular properties we're interested in.
Definitions: Let $R$ be a relation on a set $S$, i.e. $R subseteq S times S:$. Then we define four properties of $R$ by the following:
Reflexivity: $forall x in S, (x,x) in R$
Transitivity: $forall x,y,z in S, (x,y), (y,z) in R implies (x,z) in R$
Symmetry: $forall x,y in S, (x,y) in R iff (y,x) in R$
Anti-Symmetry: $forall x,y in S, (x,y), (y,x) in R iff x=y$
With that in mind, we want to see which of these properties the empty relation on the empty set has.
My Attempts:
For ease in notation, we let $R$ be the empty relation on $emptyset$, i.e. $R subseteq emptyset times emptyset = emptyset$.
Each proof follows through vacuous logic. To my understanding, we can look at each definition from before as an "if this then that" statement - symbolically, $P implies Q$. If $P$ is always false, then the overall statement is always true, and thus the definition satisfied. So we investigate each property in that light:
Reflexivity: Since there exists no $x in emptyset$, there is no element $x$ such that $(x,x) not in R$. Thus, vacuously, $R$ is reflexive.
Transitivity: Similarly, there exists no $(x,y), (y,z) in R$, so for all such pairs $(x,z) in R$. Thus, vacuously, $R$ is transitive.
Symmetry: For every $(x,y) in R$, none of which exist, we cannot say there is no $(y,x) in R$. Therefore, vacuously, $R$ is symmetric.
Anti-Symmetric: There are no $(x,y), (y,x) in R$, and therefore, for all such pairs, vacuously $x=y$ and $R$ is anti-symmetric.
My Questions:
Are the above proofs, if not fully formal, at least in the right line of thinking? Are there any particular errors?
I noticed that, if so, the empty relation is both symmetric and anti-symmetric. Intuitively, I feel like this is almost self-contradicting (but that's probably an issue in the terminology). Is this a particularly common property for relations that don't involve the empty set and aren't artificially constructed to be this way? I know that per Alessandro Codenotti's answer to this related question the equality relation is both antisymmetric and symmetric. A post on Physics Forums indicates that the only relations which are both symmetric and antisymmetric where $S$ is nonempty are relations
$$R = {(x,x) | x in S } subseteq S times S$$
This would suggest such relations $R$ are very rare, and not entirely interesting or useful (aside from the aforementioned equality relation). Is this really the case? Do no other such relations exist for nonempty $S$? If so, how would one show that? (Showing this $R$ is indeed both is trivial. Showing no other such $R$ exist ... I'm not sure how to do that.)
discrete-mathematics proof-verification elementary-set-theory relations
$endgroup$
1
$begingroup$
I would argue that the relation = is extremely interesting and useful
$endgroup$
– Holo
Jan 2 at 8:07
1
$begingroup$
in the second question, do you search for symmetry and anti-symmetry relation, or a relation that satisfy all of the properties?(mainly talking about reflexivity)
$endgroup$
– Holo
Jan 2 at 8:14
1
$begingroup$
Why aren't people upvoting this question?
$endgroup$
– Git Gud
Jan 2 at 8:48
1
$begingroup$
"I noticed that, if so, the empty relation is both symmetric and anti-symmetric. Intuitively, I feel like this is almost self-contradicting (but that's probably an issue in the terminology)". You correctly gauged that this is just terminology. For another example and an advice, see this.
$endgroup$
– Git Gud
Jan 2 at 8:52
1
$begingroup$
To add to @GitGud , it is possible for a set to be both closed and open together (clopen)
$endgroup$
– Holo
Jan 2 at 9:11
|
show 2 more comments
$begingroup$
Context / Disclosure on the Origins of the Question:
My question is motivated by an MSE question posted earlier today which ultimately was closed. I was thinking about it when it was posted, just for its own sake: I never contended with relations on the empty set in my coursework, and vacuous logic was always something I felt I had a tenuous understanding of at best. So I wanted to make sure my own personal understanding of the question was okay, plus it also made me think of a related question which I ask here.
While I understand that usually reposting previously-closed questions is frowned upon, I feel like in the spirit of this post on Meta, my elaborations and attempts might make me reposting this question worthwhile, and useful for people who come by in the future.
Below, I employ a more proper formulation of the question (that being which of the four properties the empty relation has), and ask a question based on some of the results I saw.
Formulation of the Question:
Since the empty set is a subset of every set, i.e. $emptyset subseteq emptyset$, we can consider the empty relation on the empty set. In studying relations, there are four particular properties we're interested in.
Definitions: Let $R$ be a relation on a set $S$, i.e. $R subseteq S times S:$. Then we define four properties of $R$ by the following:
Reflexivity: $forall x in S, (x,x) in R$
Transitivity: $forall x,y,z in S, (x,y), (y,z) in R implies (x,z) in R$
Symmetry: $forall x,y in S, (x,y) in R iff (y,x) in R$
Anti-Symmetry: $forall x,y in S, (x,y), (y,x) in R iff x=y$
With that in mind, we want to see which of these properties the empty relation on the empty set has.
My Attempts:
For ease in notation, we let $R$ be the empty relation on $emptyset$, i.e. $R subseteq emptyset times emptyset = emptyset$.
Each proof follows through vacuous logic. To my understanding, we can look at each definition from before as an "if this then that" statement - symbolically, $P implies Q$. If $P$ is always false, then the overall statement is always true, and thus the definition satisfied. So we investigate each property in that light:
Reflexivity: Since there exists no $x in emptyset$, there is no element $x$ such that $(x,x) not in R$. Thus, vacuously, $R$ is reflexive.
Transitivity: Similarly, there exists no $(x,y), (y,z) in R$, so for all such pairs $(x,z) in R$. Thus, vacuously, $R$ is transitive.
Symmetry: For every $(x,y) in R$, none of which exist, we cannot say there is no $(y,x) in R$. Therefore, vacuously, $R$ is symmetric.
Anti-Symmetric: There are no $(x,y), (y,x) in R$, and therefore, for all such pairs, vacuously $x=y$ and $R$ is anti-symmetric.
My Questions:
Are the above proofs, if not fully formal, at least in the right line of thinking? Are there any particular errors?
I noticed that, if so, the empty relation is both symmetric and anti-symmetric. Intuitively, I feel like this is almost self-contradicting (but that's probably an issue in the terminology). Is this a particularly common property for relations that don't involve the empty set and aren't artificially constructed to be this way? I know that per Alessandro Codenotti's answer to this related question the equality relation is both antisymmetric and symmetric. A post on Physics Forums indicates that the only relations which are both symmetric and antisymmetric where $S$ is nonempty are relations
$$R = {(x,x) | x in S } subseteq S times S$$
This would suggest such relations $R$ are very rare, and not entirely interesting or useful (aside from the aforementioned equality relation). Is this really the case? Do no other such relations exist for nonempty $S$? If so, how would one show that? (Showing this $R$ is indeed both is trivial. Showing no other such $R$ exist ... I'm not sure how to do that.)
discrete-mathematics proof-verification elementary-set-theory relations
$endgroup$
Context / Disclosure on the Origins of the Question:
My question is motivated by an MSE question posted earlier today which ultimately was closed. I was thinking about it when it was posted, just for its own sake: I never contended with relations on the empty set in my coursework, and vacuous logic was always something I felt I had a tenuous understanding of at best. So I wanted to make sure my own personal understanding of the question was okay, plus it also made me think of a related question which I ask here.
While I understand that usually reposting previously-closed questions is frowned upon, I feel like in the spirit of this post on Meta, my elaborations and attempts might make me reposting this question worthwhile, and useful for people who come by in the future.
Below, I employ a more proper formulation of the question (that being which of the four properties the empty relation has), and ask a question based on some of the results I saw.
Formulation of the Question:
Since the empty set is a subset of every set, i.e. $emptyset subseteq emptyset$, we can consider the empty relation on the empty set. In studying relations, there are four particular properties we're interested in.
Definitions: Let $R$ be a relation on a set $S$, i.e. $R subseteq S times S:$. Then we define four properties of $R$ by the following:
Reflexivity: $forall x in S, (x,x) in R$
Transitivity: $forall x,y,z in S, (x,y), (y,z) in R implies (x,z) in R$
Symmetry: $forall x,y in S, (x,y) in R iff (y,x) in R$
Anti-Symmetry: $forall x,y in S, (x,y), (y,x) in R iff x=y$
With that in mind, we want to see which of these properties the empty relation on the empty set has.
My Attempts:
For ease in notation, we let $R$ be the empty relation on $emptyset$, i.e. $R subseteq emptyset times emptyset = emptyset$.
Each proof follows through vacuous logic. To my understanding, we can look at each definition from before as an "if this then that" statement - symbolically, $P implies Q$. If $P$ is always false, then the overall statement is always true, and thus the definition satisfied. So we investigate each property in that light:
Reflexivity: Since there exists no $x in emptyset$, there is no element $x$ such that $(x,x) not in R$. Thus, vacuously, $R$ is reflexive.
Transitivity: Similarly, there exists no $(x,y), (y,z) in R$, so for all such pairs $(x,z) in R$. Thus, vacuously, $R$ is transitive.
Symmetry: For every $(x,y) in R$, none of which exist, we cannot say there is no $(y,x) in R$. Therefore, vacuously, $R$ is symmetric.
Anti-Symmetric: There are no $(x,y), (y,x) in R$, and therefore, for all such pairs, vacuously $x=y$ and $R$ is anti-symmetric.
My Questions:
Are the above proofs, if not fully formal, at least in the right line of thinking? Are there any particular errors?
I noticed that, if so, the empty relation is both symmetric and anti-symmetric. Intuitively, I feel like this is almost self-contradicting (but that's probably an issue in the terminology). Is this a particularly common property for relations that don't involve the empty set and aren't artificially constructed to be this way? I know that per Alessandro Codenotti's answer to this related question the equality relation is both antisymmetric and symmetric. A post on Physics Forums indicates that the only relations which are both symmetric and antisymmetric where $S$ is nonempty are relations
$$R = {(x,x) | x in S } subseteq S times S$$
This would suggest such relations $R$ are very rare, and not entirely interesting or useful (aside from the aforementioned equality relation). Is this really the case? Do no other such relations exist for nonempty $S$? If so, how would one show that? (Showing this $R$ is indeed both is trivial. Showing no other such $R$ exist ... I'm not sure how to do that.)
discrete-mathematics proof-verification elementary-set-theory relations
discrete-mathematics proof-verification elementary-set-theory relations
edited Jan 2 at 8:12
Eevee Trainer
asked Jan 2 at 7:37
Eevee TrainerEevee Trainer
8,88231640
8,88231640
1
$begingroup$
I would argue that the relation = is extremely interesting and useful
$endgroup$
– Holo
Jan 2 at 8:07
1
$begingroup$
in the second question, do you search for symmetry and anti-symmetry relation, or a relation that satisfy all of the properties?(mainly talking about reflexivity)
$endgroup$
– Holo
Jan 2 at 8:14
1
$begingroup$
Why aren't people upvoting this question?
$endgroup$
– Git Gud
Jan 2 at 8:48
1
$begingroup$
"I noticed that, if so, the empty relation is both symmetric and anti-symmetric. Intuitively, I feel like this is almost self-contradicting (but that's probably an issue in the terminology)". You correctly gauged that this is just terminology. For another example and an advice, see this.
$endgroup$
– Git Gud
Jan 2 at 8:52
1
$begingroup$
To add to @GitGud , it is possible for a set to be both closed and open together (clopen)
$endgroup$
– Holo
Jan 2 at 9:11
|
show 2 more comments
1
$begingroup$
I would argue that the relation = is extremely interesting and useful
$endgroup$
– Holo
Jan 2 at 8:07
1
$begingroup$
in the second question, do you search for symmetry and anti-symmetry relation, or a relation that satisfy all of the properties?(mainly talking about reflexivity)
$endgroup$
– Holo
Jan 2 at 8:14
1
$begingroup$
Why aren't people upvoting this question?
$endgroup$
– Git Gud
Jan 2 at 8:48
1
$begingroup$
"I noticed that, if so, the empty relation is both symmetric and anti-symmetric. Intuitively, I feel like this is almost self-contradicting (but that's probably an issue in the terminology)". You correctly gauged that this is just terminology. For another example and an advice, see this.
$endgroup$
– Git Gud
Jan 2 at 8:52
1
$begingroup$
To add to @GitGud , it is possible for a set to be both closed and open together (clopen)
$endgroup$
– Holo
Jan 2 at 9:11
1
1
$begingroup$
I would argue that the relation = is extremely interesting and useful
$endgroup$
– Holo
Jan 2 at 8:07
$begingroup$
I would argue that the relation = is extremely interesting and useful
$endgroup$
– Holo
Jan 2 at 8:07
1
1
$begingroup$
in the second question, do you search for symmetry and anti-symmetry relation, or a relation that satisfy all of the properties?(mainly talking about reflexivity)
$endgroup$
– Holo
Jan 2 at 8:14
$begingroup$
in the second question, do you search for symmetry and anti-symmetry relation, or a relation that satisfy all of the properties?(mainly talking about reflexivity)
$endgroup$
– Holo
Jan 2 at 8:14
1
1
$begingroup$
Why aren't people upvoting this question?
$endgroup$
– Git Gud
Jan 2 at 8:48
$begingroup$
Why aren't people upvoting this question?
$endgroup$
– Git Gud
Jan 2 at 8:48
1
1
$begingroup$
"I noticed that, if so, the empty relation is both symmetric and anti-symmetric. Intuitively, I feel like this is almost self-contradicting (but that's probably an issue in the terminology)". You correctly gauged that this is just terminology. For another example and an advice, see this.
$endgroup$
– Git Gud
Jan 2 at 8:52
$begingroup$
"I noticed that, if so, the empty relation is both symmetric and anti-symmetric. Intuitively, I feel like this is almost self-contradicting (but that's probably an issue in the terminology)". You correctly gauged that this is just terminology. For another example and an advice, see this.
$endgroup$
– Git Gud
Jan 2 at 8:52
1
1
$begingroup$
To add to @GitGud , it is possible for a set to be both closed and open together (clopen)
$endgroup$
– Holo
Jan 2 at 9:11
$begingroup$
To add to @GitGud , it is possible for a set to be both closed and open together (clopen)
$endgroup$
– Holo
Jan 2 at 9:11
|
show 2 more comments
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
$begingroup$
In general, when you consider an all-quantified property like $forall xin S [ P(x)]$, where $P$ is a predicate in $x$, the assertion is defined as
$$forall x(xin SRightarrow P(x)).$$
The truth-table for the implication, $Rightarrow$, says that if the premise is false (such as $xinemptyset$), then the whole statement is true. That's the thing behind your reasoning.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
First, anti-symmetry relation means $(a,b),(b,a)in Rimplies a=b$, it is not if and only if there.
There are more relations that are symmetry and anti-symmetry (exercise, prove that if a relation is both of those, it is also transitive)
For example, let $R$ be relation on $Bbb N$ such that $(a,b)in Riff a=b=0$.
That being said, if $R$ on $A$ relation that satisfy those 2 properties, then $(a,b)in Rimplies a=b$, because $(a,b)in Rimplies (b,a)in Rimplies a=b$.
This way you can also see that adding reflexivity than the only relation is $=$.
Because $(a,a)in R$ for all $ain A$, so $=subseteq R$, but also $(a,b)in Rimplies a=b$, so $Rsubseteq =$, thus they are one and the same.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
Your Answer
StackExchange.ifUsing("editor", function () {
return StackExchange.using("mathjaxEditing", function () {
StackExchange.MarkdownEditor.creationCallbacks.add(function (editor, postfix) {
StackExchange.mathjaxEditing.prepareWmdForMathJax(editor, postfix, [["$", "$"], ["\\(","\\)"]]);
});
});
}, "mathjax-editing");
StackExchange.ready(function() {
var channelOptions = {
tags: "".split(" "),
id: "69"
};
initTagRenderer("".split(" "), "".split(" "), channelOptions);
StackExchange.using("externalEditor", function() {
// Have to fire editor after snippets, if snippets enabled
if (StackExchange.settings.snippets.snippetsEnabled) {
StackExchange.using("snippets", function() {
createEditor();
});
}
else {
createEditor();
}
});
function createEditor() {
StackExchange.prepareEditor({
heartbeatType: 'answer',
autoActivateHeartbeat: false,
convertImagesToLinks: true,
noModals: true,
showLowRepImageUploadWarning: true,
reputationToPostImages: 10,
bindNavPrevention: true,
postfix: "",
imageUploader: {
brandingHtml: "Powered by u003ca class="icon-imgur-white" href="https://imgur.com/"u003eu003c/au003e",
contentPolicyHtml: "User contributions licensed under u003ca href="https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/"u003ecc by-sa 3.0 with attribution requiredu003c/au003e u003ca href="https://stackoverflow.com/legal/content-policy"u003e(content policy)u003c/au003e",
allowUrls: true
},
noCode: true, onDemand: true,
discardSelector: ".discard-answer"
,immediatelyShowMarkdownHelp:true
});
}
});
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
StackExchange.ready(
function () {
StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fmath.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f3059220%2forder-properties-of-the-empty-relation-on-the-empty-set-and-a-related-question%23new-answer', 'question_page');
}
);
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
$begingroup$
In general, when you consider an all-quantified property like $forall xin S [ P(x)]$, where $P$ is a predicate in $x$, the assertion is defined as
$$forall x(xin SRightarrow P(x)).$$
The truth-table for the implication, $Rightarrow$, says that if the premise is false (such as $xinemptyset$), then the whole statement is true. That's the thing behind your reasoning.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
In general, when you consider an all-quantified property like $forall xin S [ P(x)]$, where $P$ is a predicate in $x$, the assertion is defined as
$$forall x(xin SRightarrow P(x)).$$
The truth-table for the implication, $Rightarrow$, says that if the premise is false (such as $xinemptyset$), then the whole statement is true. That's the thing behind your reasoning.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
In general, when you consider an all-quantified property like $forall xin S [ P(x)]$, where $P$ is a predicate in $x$, the assertion is defined as
$$forall x(xin SRightarrow P(x)).$$
The truth-table for the implication, $Rightarrow$, says that if the premise is false (such as $xinemptyset$), then the whole statement is true. That's the thing behind your reasoning.
$endgroup$
In general, when you consider an all-quantified property like $forall xin S [ P(x)]$, where $P$ is a predicate in $x$, the assertion is defined as
$$forall x(xin SRightarrow P(x)).$$
The truth-table for the implication, $Rightarrow$, says that if the premise is false (such as $xinemptyset$), then the whole statement is true. That's the thing behind your reasoning.
edited Jan 2 at 8:08
answered Jan 2 at 8:02
WuestenfuxWuestenfux
5,3231513
5,3231513
add a comment |
add a comment |
$begingroup$
First, anti-symmetry relation means $(a,b),(b,a)in Rimplies a=b$, it is not if and only if there.
There are more relations that are symmetry and anti-symmetry (exercise, prove that if a relation is both of those, it is also transitive)
For example, let $R$ be relation on $Bbb N$ such that $(a,b)in Riff a=b=0$.
That being said, if $R$ on $A$ relation that satisfy those 2 properties, then $(a,b)in Rimplies a=b$, because $(a,b)in Rimplies (b,a)in Rimplies a=b$.
This way you can also see that adding reflexivity than the only relation is $=$.
Because $(a,a)in R$ for all $ain A$, so $=subseteq R$, but also $(a,b)in Rimplies a=b$, so $Rsubseteq =$, thus they are one and the same.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
First, anti-symmetry relation means $(a,b),(b,a)in Rimplies a=b$, it is not if and only if there.
There are more relations that are symmetry and anti-symmetry (exercise, prove that if a relation is both of those, it is also transitive)
For example, let $R$ be relation on $Bbb N$ such that $(a,b)in Riff a=b=0$.
That being said, if $R$ on $A$ relation that satisfy those 2 properties, then $(a,b)in Rimplies a=b$, because $(a,b)in Rimplies (b,a)in Rimplies a=b$.
This way you can also see that adding reflexivity than the only relation is $=$.
Because $(a,a)in R$ for all $ain A$, so $=subseteq R$, but also $(a,b)in Rimplies a=b$, so $Rsubseteq =$, thus they are one and the same.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
First, anti-symmetry relation means $(a,b),(b,a)in Rimplies a=b$, it is not if and only if there.
There are more relations that are symmetry and anti-symmetry (exercise, prove that if a relation is both of those, it is also transitive)
For example, let $R$ be relation on $Bbb N$ such that $(a,b)in Riff a=b=0$.
That being said, if $R$ on $A$ relation that satisfy those 2 properties, then $(a,b)in Rimplies a=b$, because $(a,b)in Rimplies (b,a)in Rimplies a=b$.
This way you can also see that adding reflexivity than the only relation is $=$.
Because $(a,a)in R$ for all $ain A$, so $=subseteq R$, but also $(a,b)in Rimplies a=b$, so $Rsubseteq =$, thus they are one and the same.
$endgroup$
First, anti-symmetry relation means $(a,b),(b,a)in Rimplies a=b$, it is not if and only if there.
There are more relations that are symmetry and anti-symmetry (exercise, prove that if a relation is both of those, it is also transitive)
For example, let $R$ be relation on $Bbb N$ such that $(a,b)in Riff a=b=0$.
That being said, if $R$ on $A$ relation that satisfy those 2 properties, then $(a,b)in Rimplies a=b$, because $(a,b)in Rimplies (b,a)in Rimplies a=b$.
This way you can also see that adding reflexivity than the only relation is $=$.
Because $(a,a)in R$ for all $ain A$, so $=subseteq R$, but also $(a,b)in Rimplies a=b$, so $Rsubseteq =$, thus they are one and the same.
answered Jan 2 at 8:40
HoloHolo
6,08321131
6,08321131
add a comment |
add a comment |
Thanks for contributing an answer to Mathematics Stack Exchange!
- Please be sure to answer the question. Provide details and share your research!
But avoid …
- Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers.
- Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience.
Use MathJax to format equations. MathJax reference.
To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers.
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
StackExchange.ready(
function () {
StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fmath.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f3059220%2forder-properties-of-the-empty-relation-on-the-empty-set-and-a-related-question%23new-answer', 'question_page');
}
);
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
1
$begingroup$
I would argue that the relation = is extremely interesting and useful
$endgroup$
– Holo
Jan 2 at 8:07
1
$begingroup$
in the second question, do you search for symmetry and anti-symmetry relation, or a relation that satisfy all of the properties?(mainly talking about reflexivity)
$endgroup$
– Holo
Jan 2 at 8:14
1
$begingroup$
Why aren't people upvoting this question?
$endgroup$
– Git Gud
Jan 2 at 8:48
1
$begingroup$
"I noticed that, if so, the empty relation is both symmetric and anti-symmetric. Intuitively, I feel like this is almost self-contradicting (but that's probably an issue in the terminology)". You correctly gauged that this is just terminology. For another example and an advice, see this.
$endgroup$
– Git Gud
Jan 2 at 8:52
1
$begingroup$
To add to @GitGud , it is possible for a set to be both closed and open together (clopen)
$endgroup$
– Holo
Jan 2 at 9:11