Why is “Some men have brown hair” $exists x(M(x) wedge B(x))$ but “All men have brown hair” isn't...











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As the title says, I'm not sure why "Some men have with brown hair" is $exists x(M(x) wedge B(x))$, but "All men have brown hair" isn't $forall x(M(x) wedge B(x))$?



Doesn't $forall x(M(x) wedge B(x))$ read as "For every $x$, $x$ is a man and $x$ has brown hair?" In other words all men have brown hair.



I'm aware that the correct statement is $forall x(M(x) Rightarrow B(x))$, which reads as "For every $x$, if $x$ is a man, then $x$ has brown hair."



$M(x)$ means "$x$ is a man", and $B(x)$ means "$x$ has brown hair."










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    That depends on what your domain is. If your domain is the set of all people then the statement $forall xleft( M(x)wedge B(x)right)$ translates as "Every person is a male with brown hair." You have seemingly ignored the possibilities of females being present too.
    – JMoravitz
    Nov 26 at 6:14

















up vote
0
down vote

favorite












As the title says, I'm not sure why "Some men have with brown hair" is $exists x(M(x) wedge B(x))$, but "All men have brown hair" isn't $forall x(M(x) wedge B(x))$?



Doesn't $forall x(M(x) wedge B(x))$ read as "For every $x$, $x$ is a man and $x$ has brown hair?" In other words all men have brown hair.



I'm aware that the correct statement is $forall x(M(x) Rightarrow B(x))$, which reads as "For every $x$, if $x$ is a man, then $x$ has brown hair."



$M(x)$ means "$x$ is a man", and $B(x)$ means "$x$ has brown hair."










share|cite|improve this question




















  • 2




    That depends on what your domain is. If your domain is the set of all people then the statement $forall xleft( M(x)wedge B(x)right)$ translates as "Every person is a male with brown hair." You have seemingly ignored the possibilities of females being present too.
    – JMoravitz
    Nov 26 at 6:14















up vote
0
down vote

favorite









up vote
0
down vote

favorite











As the title says, I'm not sure why "Some men have with brown hair" is $exists x(M(x) wedge B(x))$, but "All men have brown hair" isn't $forall x(M(x) wedge B(x))$?



Doesn't $forall x(M(x) wedge B(x))$ read as "For every $x$, $x$ is a man and $x$ has brown hair?" In other words all men have brown hair.



I'm aware that the correct statement is $forall x(M(x) Rightarrow B(x))$, which reads as "For every $x$, if $x$ is a man, then $x$ has brown hair."



$M(x)$ means "$x$ is a man", and $B(x)$ means "$x$ has brown hair."










share|cite|improve this question















As the title says, I'm not sure why "Some men have with brown hair" is $exists x(M(x) wedge B(x))$, but "All men have brown hair" isn't $forall x(M(x) wedge B(x))$?



Doesn't $forall x(M(x) wedge B(x))$ read as "For every $x$, $x$ is a man and $x$ has brown hair?" In other words all men have brown hair.



I'm aware that the correct statement is $forall x(M(x) Rightarrow B(x))$, which reads as "For every $x$, if $x$ is a man, then $x$ has brown hair."



$M(x)$ means "$x$ is a man", and $B(x)$ means "$x$ has brown hair."







logic






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edited Nov 26 at 6:23









Eevee Trainer

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asked Nov 26 at 6:07









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  • 2




    That depends on what your domain is. If your domain is the set of all people then the statement $forall xleft( M(x)wedge B(x)right)$ translates as "Every person is a male with brown hair." You have seemingly ignored the possibilities of females being present too.
    – JMoravitz
    Nov 26 at 6:14
















  • 2




    That depends on what your domain is. If your domain is the set of all people then the statement $forall xleft( M(x)wedge B(x)right)$ translates as "Every person is a male with brown hair." You have seemingly ignored the possibilities of females being present too.
    – JMoravitz
    Nov 26 at 6:14










2




2




That depends on what your domain is. If your domain is the set of all people then the statement $forall xleft( M(x)wedge B(x)right)$ translates as "Every person is a male with brown hair." You have seemingly ignored the possibilities of females being present too.
– JMoravitz
Nov 26 at 6:14






That depends on what your domain is. If your domain is the set of all people then the statement $forall xleft( M(x)wedge B(x)right)$ translates as "Every person is a male with brown hair." You have seemingly ignored the possibilities of females being present too.
– JMoravitz
Nov 26 at 6:14












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It seems like you want to read $forall x (M(x)wedge B(x))$ as saying




For all men $x$, it is true that $x$ has brown hair.




Which is different from the following statement:




For all $x$, it is true that $x$ is a man and has brown hair.




The difference is that, in the first statement, $x$ is necessarily a man. In the second statement, we could take $x$ to be a rock*, and we would claim that it is a man with brown hair. The symbol "$forall x$" means that, no matter what we take $x$ to be, the following statement is true of it.



A common thing to write, however, to express the first statement is
$$forall xin M(B(x))$$
where $M$ is the set of all men; this means that we restrict the choice of $x$ to be within this set - although this is the same as
$$forall x(M(x)rightarrow B(x)).$$



(*Of course, when working in logic, there's generally a well-defined sense of what $x$ could be - but here, unless $M(x)$ is true of every $x$, the statements are not interchangeable - and, speaking informally, it's unlikely that $x$ is implicitly understood to be a man)






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    up vote
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    down vote













    It's ultimately a matter of what you're trying to imply.



    To say there are some men with brown hair means that both conditions hold true; there exists a person who is both male ($M(x)$) and has brown hair ($B(x)$).



    However, think about what it says to say "all men have brown hair." "All men have" is basically saying "$M(x) Rightarrow text{(something)}$". To say "all men have" something is making an ever-so-subtle assumption that being a man implies something.



    Another problem with the use of the "and" operator here is the subtle assumption that the $x$'s you're dealing with are people. To say "$forall x, M(x) wedge B(x)$" makes the implication that all people ($x$) are both male ($M(x)$) and have brown hair ($B(x)$). However, we know there are also women among the $x$'s, so that doesn't work out does it?



    It's not as overt as saying "$x$ implies $y$," and in the nuances of the English one would look at them as being logically equivalent; it took me a while to even notice myself the nuance. This is probably where your confusion comes from.






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      2 Answers
      2






      active

      oldest

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      2 Answers
      2






      active

      oldest

      votes









      active

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      active

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      up vote
      2
      down vote



      accepted










      It seems like you want to read $forall x (M(x)wedge B(x))$ as saying




      For all men $x$, it is true that $x$ has brown hair.




      Which is different from the following statement:




      For all $x$, it is true that $x$ is a man and has brown hair.




      The difference is that, in the first statement, $x$ is necessarily a man. In the second statement, we could take $x$ to be a rock*, and we would claim that it is a man with brown hair. The symbol "$forall x$" means that, no matter what we take $x$ to be, the following statement is true of it.



      A common thing to write, however, to express the first statement is
      $$forall xin M(B(x))$$
      where $M$ is the set of all men; this means that we restrict the choice of $x$ to be within this set - although this is the same as
      $$forall x(M(x)rightarrow B(x)).$$



      (*Of course, when working in logic, there's generally a well-defined sense of what $x$ could be - but here, unless $M(x)$ is true of every $x$, the statements are not interchangeable - and, speaking informally, it's unlikely that $x$ is implicitly understood to be a man)






      share|cite|improve this answer

























        up vote
        2
        down vote



        accepted










        It seems like you want to read $forall x (M(x)wedge B(x))$ as saying




        For all men $x$, it is true that $x$ has brown hair.




        Which is different from the following statement:




        For all $x$, it is true that $x$ is a man and has brown hair.




        The difference is that, in the first statement, $x$ is necessarily a man. In the second statement, we could take $x$ to be a rock*, and we would claim that it is a man with brown hair. The symbol "$forall x$" means that, no matter what we take $x$ to be, the following statement is true of it.



        A common thing to write, however, to express the first statement is
        $$forall xin M(B(x))$$
        where $M$ is the set of all men; this means that we restrict the choice of $x$ to be within this set - although this is the same as
        $$forall x(M(x)rightarrow B(x)).$$



        (*Of course, when working in logic, there's generally a well-defined sense of what $x$ could be - but here, unless $M(x)$ is true of every $x$, the statements are not interchangeable - and, speaking informally, it's unlikely that $x$ is implicitly understood to be a man)






        share|cite|improve this answer























          up vote
          2
          down vote



          accepted







          up vote
          2
          down vote



          accepted






          It seems like you want to read $forall x (M(x)wedge B(x))$ as saying




          For all men $x$, it is true that $x$ has brown hair.




          Which is different from the following statement:




          For all $x$, it is true that $x$ is a man and has brown hair.




          The difference is that, in the first statement, $x$ is necessarily a man. In the second statement, we could take $x$ to be a rock*, and we would claim that it is a man with brown hair. The symbol "$forall x$" means that, no matter what we take $x$ to be, the following statement is true of it.



          A common thing to write, however, to express the first statement is
          $$forall xin M(B(x))$$
          where $M$ is the set of all men; this means that we restrict the choice of $x$ to be within this set - although this is the same as
          $$forall x(M(x)rightarrow B(x)).$$



          (*Of course, when working in logic, there's generally a well-defined sense of what $x$ could be - but here, unless $M(x)$ is true of every $x$, the statements are not interchangeable - and, speaking informally, it's unlikely that $x$ is implicitly understood to be a man)






          share|cite|improve this answer












          It seems like you want to read $forall x (M(x)wedge B(x))$ as saying




          For all men $x$, it is true that $x$ has brown hair.




          Which is different from the following statement:




          For all $x$, it is true that $x$ is a man and has brown hair.




          The difference is that, in the first statement, $x$ is necessarily a man. In the second statement, we could take $x$ to be a rock*, and we would claim that it is a man with brown hair. The symbol "$forall x$" means that, no matter what we take $x$ to be, the following statement is true of it.



          A common thing to write, however, to express the first statement is
          $$forall xin M(B(x))$$
          where $M$ is the set of all men; this means that we restrict the choice of $x$ to be within this set - although this is the same as
          $$forall x(M(x)rightarrow B(x)).$$



          (*Of course, when working in logic, there's generally a well-defined sense of what $x$ could be - but here, unless $M(x)$ is true of every $x$, the statements are not interchangeable - and, speaking informally, it's unlikely that $x$ is implicitly understood to be a man)







          share|cite|improve this answer












          share|cite|improve this answer



          share|cite|improve this answer










          answered Nov 26 at 6:16









          Milo Brandt

          39k475137




          39k475137






















              up vote
              0
              down vote













              It's ultimately a matter of what you're trying to imply.



              To say there are some men with brown hair means that both conditions hold true; there exists a person who is both male ($M(x)$) and has brown hair ($B(x)$).



              However, think about what it says to say "all men have brown hair." "All men have" is basically saying "$M(x) Rightarrow text{(something)}$". To say "all men have" something is making an ever-so-subtle assumption that being a man implies something.



              Another problem with the use of the "and" operator here is the subtle assumption that the $x$'s you're dealing with are people. To say "$forall x, M(x) wedge B(x)$" makes the implication that all people ($x$) are both male ($M(x)$) and have brown hair ($B(x)$). However, we know there are also women among the $x$'s, so that doesn't work out does it?



              It's not as overt as saying "$x$ implies $y$," and in the nuances of the English one would look at them as being logically equivalent; it took me a while to even notice myself the nuance. This is probably where your confusion comes from.






              share|cite|improve this answer

























                up vote
                0
                down vote













                It's ultimately a matter of what you're trying to imply.



                To say there are some men with brown hair means that both conditions hold true; there exists a person who is both male ($M(x)$) and has brown hair ($B(x)$).



                However, think about what it says to say "all men have brown hair." "All men have" is basically saying "$M(x) Rightarrow text{(something)}$". To say "all men have" something is making an ever-so-subtle assumption that being a man implies something.



                Another problem with the use of the "and" operator here is the subtle assumption that the $x$'s you're dealing with are people. To say "$forall x, M(x) wedge B(x)$" makes the implication that all people ($x$) are both male ($M(x)$) and have brown hair ($B(x)$). However, we know there are also women among the $x$'s, so that doesn't work out does it?



                It's not as overt as saying "$x$ implies $y$," and in the nuances of the English one would look at them as being logically equivalent; it took me a while to even notice myself the nuance. This is probably where your confusion comes from.






                share|cite|improve this answer























                  up vote
                  0
                  down vote










                  up vote
                  0
                  down vote









                  It's ultimately a matter of what you're trying to imply.



                  To say there are some men with brown hair means that both conditions hold true; there exists a person who is both male ($M(x)$) and has brown hair ($B(x)$).



                  However, think about what it says to say "all men have brown hair." "All men have" is basically saying "$M(x) Rightarrow text{(something)}$". To say "all men have" something is making an ever-so-subtle assumption that being a man implies something.



                  Another problem with the use of the "and" operator here is the subtle assumption that the $x$'s you're dealing with are people. To say "$forall x, M(x) wedge B(x)$" makes the implication that all people ($x$) are both male ($M(x)$) and have brown hair ($B(x)$). However, we know there are also women among the $x$'s, so that doesn't work out does it?



                  It's not as overt as saying "$x$ implies $y$," and in the nuances of the English one would look at them as being logically equivalent; it took me a while to even notice myself the nuance. This is probably where your confusion comes from.






                  share|cite|improve this answer












                  It's ultimately a matter of what you're trying to imply.



                  To say there are some men with brown hair means that both conditions hold true; there exists a person who is both male ($M(x)$) and has brown hair ($B(x)$).



                  However, think about what it says to say "all men have brown hair." "All men have" is basically saying "$M(x) Rightarrow text{(something)}$". To say "all men have" something is making an ever-so-subtle assumption that being a man implies something.



                  Another problem with the use of the "and" operator here is the subtle assumption that the $x$'s you're dealing with are people. To say "$forall x, M(x) wedge B(x)$" makes the implication that all people ($x$) are both male ($M(x)$) and have brown hair ($B(x)$). However, we know there are also women among the $x$'s, so that doesn't work out does it?



                  It's not as overt as saying "$x$ implies $y$," and in the nuances of the English one would look at them as being logically equivalent; it took me a while to even notice myself the nuance. This is probably where your confusion comes from.







                  share|cite|improve this answer












                  share|cite|improve this answer



                  share|cite|improve this answer










                  answered Nov 26 at 6:17









                  Eevee Trainer

                  2,614221




                  2,614221






























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