Can two different distributions have the same value of mean, variance, skewness, and kurtosis?





.everyoneloves__top-leaderboard:empty,.everyoneloves__mid-leaderboard:empty,.everyoneloves__bot-mid-leaderboard:empty{ margin-bottom:0;
}







6












$begingroup$


Assuming that you have two discrete population distributions.



Can they have identical values of mean ,variance, skewness and kurtosis while being different in shape visually ?



Do these four values act like a fingerprint of any distribution?










share|cite|improve this question











$endgroup$








  • 6




    $begingroup$
    Yes. In fact, one can construct two different discrete distributions with all moments equal, yet do not agree in distribution. Also check out this question: Two random variables with same moments.
    $endgroup$
    – Francis
    Jan 5 at 8:22












  • $begingroup$
    You may already know this but when in such a situation where you have some statistics which reduce the space of possible distributions but do not identify a single distribution then you should generally choose the probability distribution with the maximum entropy.
    $endgroup$
    – Pace
    Jan 5 at 20:36


















6












$begingroup$


Assuming that you have two discrete population distributions.



Can they have identical values of mean ,variance, skewness and kurtosis while being different in shape visually ?



Do these four values act like a fingerprint of any distribution?










share|cite|improve this question











$endgroup$








  • 6




    $begingroup$
    Yes. In fact, one can construct two different discrete distributions with all moments equal, yet do not agree in distribution. Also check out this question: Two random variables with same moments.
    $endgroup$
    – Francis
    Jan 5 at 8:22












  • $begingroup$
    You may already know this but when in such a situation where you have some statistics which reduce the space of possible distributions but do not identify a single distribution then you should generally choose the probability distribution with the maximum entropy.
    $endgroup$
    – Pace
    Jan 5 at 20:36














6












6








6


3



$begingroup$


Assuming that you have two discrete population distributions.



Can they have identical values of mean ,variance, skewness and kurtosis while being different in shape visually ?



Do these four values act like a fingerprint of any distribution?










share|cite|improve this question











$endgroup$




Assuming that you have two discrete population distributions.



Can they have identical values of mean ,variance, skewness and kurtosis while being different in shape visually ?



Do these four values act like a fingerprint of any distribution?







descriptive-statistics skewness kurtosis






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share|cite|improve this question













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edited Jan 5 at 10:30









kjetil b halvorsen

32k985237




32k985237










asked Jan 5 at 7:44









Adurthi Ashwin SwarupAdurthi Ashwin Swarup

1336




1336








  • 6




    $begingroup$
    Yes. In fact, one can construct two different discrete distributions with all moments equal, yet do not agree in distribution. Also check out this question: Two random variables with same moments.
    $endgroup$
    – Francis
    Jan 5 at 8:22












  • $begingroup$
    You may already know this but when in such a situation where you have some statistics which reduce the space of possible distributions but do not identify a single distribution then you should generally choose the probability distribution with the maximum entropy.
    $endgroup$
    – Pace
    Jan 5 at 20:36














  • 6




    $begingroup$
    Yes. In fact, one can construct two different discrete distributions with all moments equal, yet do not agree in distribution. Also check out this question: Two random variables with same moments.
    $endgroup$
    – Francis
    Jan 5 at 8:22












  • $begingroup$
    You may already know this but when in such a situation where you have some statistics which reduce the space of possible distributions but do not identify a single distribution then you should generally choose the probability distribution with the maximum entropy.
    $endgroup$
    – Pace
    Jan 5 at 20:36








6




6




$begingroup$
Yes. In fact, one can construct two different discrete distributions with all moments equal, yet do not agree in distribution. Also check out this question: Two random variables with same moments.
$endgroup$
– Francis
Jan 5 at 8:22






$begingroup$
Yes. In fact, one can construct two different discrete distributions with all moments equal, yet do not agree in distribution. Also check out this question: Two random variables with same moments.
$endgroup$
– Francis
Jan 5 at 8:22














$begingroup$
You may already know this but when in such a situation where you have some statistics which reduce the space of possible distributions but do not identify a single distribution then you should generally choose the probability distribution with the maximum entropy.
$endgroup$
– Pace
Jan 5 at 20:36




$begingroup$
You may already know this but when in such a situation where you have some statistics which reduce the space of possible distributions but do not identify a single distribution then you should generally choose the probability distribution with the maximum entropy.
$endgroup$
– Pace
Jan 5 at 20:36










2 Answers
2






active

oldest

votes


















8












$begingroup$

Xi'an's answer proved (or at least hinted a proof) that there are different distributions with the same mean, variance, skewness and kurtosis. I just want to show an example of three visually distinct discrete distributions with the same moments (mean=skewness=0, variance=1 and kurtosis=2):



Three discrete samples with the same moments



The code to generate them is:



library(moments)

n <- 1e6

x <- c(-sqrt(2), 0, +sqrt(2))
p <- c(1,2,1)
mostra1 <- sample(x, size=n, prob=p, replace=TRUE)

x <- c(-1.4629338416371, -0.350630832572269, 0.350630832573386, 1.46293384163564)
p <- c(1, 1.3, 1.3, 1)
mostra2 <- sample(x, size=n, prob=p, replace=TRUE)

x <- c(-1.5049621442915, -0.457635862316285, 0.457635862316022, 1.50496214429192)
p <- c(1, 1.6, 1.6, 1)
mostra3 <- sample(x, size=n, prob=p, replace=TRUE)

mostra <- rbind(data.frame(x=mostra1, grup="a"),
data.frame(x=mostra2, grup="b"),
data.frame(x=mostra3, grup="c"))
aggregate(x~grup, data=mostra, mean)
aggregate(x~grup, data=mostra, var)
aggregate(x~grup, data=mostra, skewness)
aggregate(x~grup, data=mostra, kurtosis)

library(ggplot2)
ggplot(mostra)+
geom_histogram(aes(x, fill=grup), bins=100)





share|cite|improve this answer









$endgroup$













  • $begingroup$
    This is really good mate. The question I wanted to is that are the shapes significantly different ? can you plot the shape of the distributions well ?
    $endgroup$
    – Adurthi Ashwin Swarup
    Jan 10 at 8:47










  • $begingroup$
    I did. These are discrete distributions and the bar diagram above shows the shape of the three distributions (one different color each). Probability is zero for all values except for those where a bar is. The same exercise could be done with a continuous distribution - for example, plotting a case of Xi'an's answer.
    $endgroup$
    – Pere
    Jan 10 at 8:54



















11












$begingroup$

Take a mixture of two Normal distributions with density
$$f(x|mu_1,mu_2,sigma_1,sigma_2,omega)=
frac{omega}{sqrt{2pi}sigma_1}exp{-(x-mu_1)^2/2sigma_1^2}+
frac{1-omega}{sqrt{2pi}sigma_2}exp{-(x-mu_2)^2/2sigma_2^2}$$

This distribution has five parameters constrained by four equations
begin{align*}
mathbb{E}[X]&=omegamu_1+(1-omega)mu_2\
text{var}(X)&=omegasigma_1^2+(1-omega)sigma_2^2+omega(mu_1-mathbb{E}[X])^2+(1-omega)(mu_2-mathbb{E}[X])^2\
mathbb{E}[X^3]&=ldots\
mathbb{E}[X^4]&=ldots
end{align*}

Assuming these equations are compatible, there is therefore an infinite number of solutions $(mu_1,mu_2,sigma_1,sigma_2,omega)$.






share|cite|improve this answer











$endgroup$













  • $begingroup$
    How come 4 equations ? Wont there be 4 equations to be solved for each distribution ? Assuming 4 eq for mean , variance , skewness and kurtosis - And is this applicable to discrete distributions as well ?
    $endgroup$
    – Adurthi Ashwin Swarup
    Jan 5 at 14:02












  • $begingroup$
    You can use a discrete version of this mixture distribution, with no difference in the conclusion.
    $endgroup$
    – Xi'an
    Jan 5 at 14:14












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2 Answers
2






active

oldest

votes








2 Answers
2






active

oldest

votes









active

oldest

votes






active

oldest

votes









8












$begingroup$

Xi'an's answer proved (or at least hinted a proof) that there are different distributions with the same mean, variance, skewness and kurtosis. I just want to show an example of three visually distinct discrete distributions with the same moments (mean=skewness=0, variance=1 and kurtosis=2):



Three discrete samples with the same moments



The code to generate them is:



library(moments)

n <- 1e6

x <- c(-sqrt(2), 0, +sqrt(2))
p <- c(1,2,1)
mostra1 <- sample(x, size=n, prob=p, replace=TRUE)

x <- c(-1.4629338416371, -0.350630832572269, 0.350630832573386, 1.46293384163564)
p <- c(1, 1.3, 1.3, 1)
mostra2 <- sample(x, size=n, prob=p, replace=TRUE)

x <- c(-1.5049621442915, -0.457635862316285, 0.457635862316022, 1.50496214429192)
p <- c(1, 1.6, 1.6, 1)
mostra3 <- sample(x, size=n, prob=p, replace=TRUE)

mostra <- rbind(data.frame(x=mostra1, grup="a"),
data.frame(x=mostra2, grup="b"),
data.frame(x=mostra3, grup="c"))
aggregate(x~grup, data=mostra, mean)
aggregate(x~grup, data=mostra, var)
aggregate(x~grup, data=mostra, skewness)
aggregate(x~grup, data=mostra, kurtosis)

library(ggplot2)
ggplot(mostra)+
geom_histogram(aes(x, fill=grup), bins=100)





share|cite|improve this answer









$endgroup$













  • $begingroup$
    This is really good mate. The question I wanted to is that are the shapes significantly different ? can you plot the shape of the distributions well ?
    $endgroup$
    – Adurthi Ashwin Swarup
    Jan 10 at 8:47










  • $begingroup$
    I did. These are discrete distributions and the bar diagram above shows the shape of the three distributions (one different color each). Probability is zero for all values except for those where a bar is. The same exercise could be done with a continuous distribution - for example, plotting a case of Xi'an's answer.
    $endgroup$
    – Pere
    Jan 10 at 8:54
















8












$begingroup$

Xi'an's answer proved (or at least hinted a proof) that there are different distributions with the same mean, variance, skewness and kurtosis. I just want to show an example of three visually distinct discrete distributions with the same moments (mean=skewness=0, variance=1 and kurtosis=2):



Three discrete samples with the same moments



The code to generate them is:



library(moments)

n <- 1e6

x <- c(-sqrt(2), 0, +sqrt(2))
p <- c(1,2,1)
mostra1 <- sample(x, size=n, prob=p, replace=TRUE)

x <- c(-1.4629338416371, -0.350630832572269, 0.350630832573386, 1.46293384163564)
p <- c(1, 1.3, 1.3, 1)
mostra2 <- sample(x, size=n, prob=p, replace=TRUE)

x <- c(-1.5049621442915, -0.457635862316285, 0.457635862316022, 1.50496214429192)
p <- c(1, 1.6, 1.6, 1)
mostra3 <- sample(x, size=n, prob=p, replace=TRUE)

mostra <- rbind(data.frame(x=mostra1, grup="a"),
data.frame(x=mostra2, grup="b"),
data.frame(x=mostra3, grup="c"))
aggregate(x~grup, data=mostra, mean)
aggregate(x~grup, data=mostra, var)
aggregate(x~grup, data=mostra, skewness)
aggregate(x~grup, data=mostra, kurtosis)

library(ggplot2)
ggplot(mostra)+
geom_histogram(aes(x, fill=grup), bins=100)





share|cite|improve this answer









$endgroup$













  • $begingroup$
    This is really good mate. The question I wanted to is that are the shapes significantly different ? can you plot the shape of the distributions well ?
    $endgroup$
    – Adurthi Ashwin Swarup
    Jan 10 at 8:47










  • $begingroup$
    I did. These are discrete distributions and the bar diagram above shows the shape of the three distributions (one different color each). Probability is zero for all values except for those where a bar is. The same exercise could be done with a continuous distribution - for example, plotting a case of Xi'an's answer.
    $endgroup$
    – Pere
    Jan 10 at 8:54














8












8








8





$begingroup$

Xi'an's answer proved (or at least hinted a proof) that there are different distributions with the same mean, variance, skewness and kurtosis. I just want to show an example of three visually distinct discrete distributions with the same moments (mean=skewness=0, variance=1 and kurtosis=2):



Three discrete samples with the same moments



The code to generate them is:



library(moments)

n <- 1e6

x <- c(-sqrt(2), 0, +sqrt(2))
p <- c(1,2,1)
mostra1 <- sample(x, size=n, prob=p, replace=TRUE)

x <- c(-1.4629338416371, -0.350630832572269, 0.350630832573386, 1.46293384163564)
p <- c(1, 1.3, 1.3, 1)
mostra2 <- sample(x, size=n, prob=p, replace=TRUE)

x <- c(-1.5049621442915, -0.457635862316285, 0.457635862316022, 1.50496214429192)
p <- c(1, 1.6, 1.6, 1)
mostra3 <- sample(x, size=n, prob=p, replace=TRUE)

mostra <- rbind(data.frame(x=mostra1, grup="a"),
data.frame(x=mostra2, grup="b"),
data.frame(x=mostra3, grup="c"))
aggregate(x~grup, data=mostra, mean)
aggregate(x~grup, data=mostra, var)
aggregate(x~grup, data=mostra, skewness)
aggregate(x~grup, data=mostra, kurtosis)

library(ggplot2)
ggplot(mostra)+
geom_histogram(aes(x, fill=grup), bins=100)





share|cite|improve this answer









$endgroup$



Xi'an's answer proved (or at least hinted a proof) that there are different distributions with the same mean, variance, skewness and kurtosis. I just want to show an example of three visually distinct discrete distributions with the same moments (mean=skewness=0, variance=1 and kurtosis=2):



Three discrete samples with the same moments



The code to generate them is:



library(moments)

n <- 1e6

x <- c(-sqrt(2), 0, +sqrt(2))
p <- c(1,2,1)
mostra1 <- sample(x, size=n, prob=p, replace=TRUE)

x <- c(-1.4629338416371, -0.350630832572269, 0.350630832573386, 1.46293384163564)
p <- c(1, 1.3, 1.3, 1)
mostra2 <- sample(x, size=n, prob=p, replace=TRUE)

x <- c(-1.5049621442915, -0.457635862316285, 0.457635862316022, 1.50496214429192)
p <- c(1, 1.6, 1.6, 1)
mostra3 <- sample(x, size=n, prob=p, replace=TRUE)

mostra <- rbind(data.frame(x=mostra1, grup="a"),
data.frame(x=mostra2, grup="b"),
data.frame(x=mostra3, grup="c"))
aggregate(x~grup, data=mostra, mean)
aggregate(x~grup, data=mostra, var)
aggregate(x~grup, data=mostra, skewness)
aggregate(x~grup, data=mostra, kurtosis)

library(ggplot2)
ggplot(mostra)+
geom_histogram(aes(x, fill=grup), bins=100)






share|cite|improve this answer












share|cite|improve this answer



share|cite|improve this answer










answered Jan 5 at 18:04









PerePere

4,6831820




4,6831820












  • $begingroup$
    This is really good mate. The question I wanted to is that are the shapes significantly different ? can you plot the shape of the distributions well ?
    $endgroup$
    – Adurthi Ashwin Swarup
    Jan 10 at 8:47










  • $begingroup$
    I did. These are discrete distributions and the bar diagram above shows the shape of the three distributions (one different color each). Probability is zero for all values except for those where a bar is. The same exercise could be done with a continuous distribution - for example, plotting a case of Xi'an's answer.
    $endgroup$
    – Pere
    Jan 10 at 8:54


















  • $begingroup$
    This is really good mate. The question I wanted to is that are the shapes significantly different ? can you plot the shape of the distributions well ?
    $endgroup$
    – Adurthi Ashwin Swarup
    Jan 10 at 8:47










  • $begingroup$
    I did. These are discrete distributions and the bar diagram above shows the shape of the three distributions (one different color each). Probability is zero for all values except for those where a bar is. The same exercise could be done with a continuous distribution - for example, plotting a case of Xi'an's answer.
    $endgroup$
    – Pere
    Jan 10 at 8:54
















$begingroup$
This is really good mate. The question I wanted to is that are the shapes significantly different ? can you plot the shape of the distributions well ?
$endgroup$
– Adurthi Ashwin Swarup
Jan 10 at 8:47




$begingroup$
This is really good mate. The question I wanted to is that are the shapes significantly different ? can you plot the shape of the distributions well ?
$endgroup$
– Adurthi Ashwin Swarup
Jan 10 at 8:47












$begingroup$
I did. These are discrete distributions and the bar diagram above shows the shape of the three distributions (one different color each). Probability is zero for all values except for those where a bar is. The same exercise could be done with a continuous distribution - for example, plotting a case of Xi'an's answer.
$endgroup$
– Pere
Jan 10 at 8:54




$begingroup$
I did. These are discrete distributions and the bar diagram above shows the shape of the three distributions (one different color each). Probability is zero for all values except for those where a bar is. The same exercise could be done with a continuous distribution - for example, plotting a case of Xi'an's answer.
$endgroup$
– Pere
Jan 10 at 8:54













11












$begingroup$

Take a mixture of two Normal distributions with density
$$f(x|mu_1,mu_2,sigma_1,sigma_2,omega)=
frac{omega}{sqrt{2pi}sigma_1}exp{-(x-mu_1)^2/2sigma_1^2}+
frac{1-omega}{sqrt{2pi}sigma_2}exp{-(x-mu_2)^2/2sigma_2^2}$$

This distribution has five parameters constrained by four equations
begin{align*}
mathbb{E}[X]&=omegamu_1+(1-omega)mu_2\
text{var}(X)&=omegasigma_1^2+(1-omega)sigma_2^2+omega(mu_1-mathbb{E}[X])^2+(1-omega)(mu_2-mathbb{E}[X])^2\
mathbb{E}[X^3]&=ldots\
mathbb{E}[X^4]&=ldots
end{align*}

Assuming these equations are compatible, there is therefore an infinite number of solutions $(mu_1,mu_2,sigma_1,sigma_2,omega)$.






share|cite|improve this answer











$endgroup$













  • $begingroup$
    How come 4 equations ? Wont there be 4 equations to be solved for each distribution ? Assuming 4 eq for mean , variance , skewness and kurtosis - And is this applicable to discrete distributions as well ?
    $endgroup$
    – Adurthi Ashwin Swarup
    Jan 5 at 14:02












  • $begingroup$
    You can use a discrete version of this mixture distribution, with no difference in the conclusion.
    $endgroup$
    – Xi'an
    Jan 5 at 14:14
















11












$begingroup$

Take a mixture of two Normal distributions with density
$$f(x|mu_1,mu_2,sigma_1,sigma_2,omega)=
frac{omega}{sqrt{2pi}sigma_1}exp{-(x-mu_1)^2/2sigma_1^2}+
frac{1-omega}{sqrt{2pi}sigma_2}exp{-(x-mu_2)^2/2sigma_2^2}$$

This distribution has five parameters constrained by four equations
begin{align*}
mathbb{E}[X]&=omegamu_1+(1-omega)mu_2\
text{var}(X)&=omegasigma_1^2+(1-omega)sigma_2^2+omega(mu_1-mathbb{E}[X])^2+(1-omega)(mu_2-mathbb{E}[X])^2\
mathbb{E}[X^3]&=ldots\
mathbb{E}[X^4]&=ldots
end{align*}

Assuming these equations are compatible, there is therefore an infinite number of solutions $(mu_1,mu_2,sigma_1,sigma_2,omega)$.






share|cite|improve this answer











$endgroup$













  • $begingroup$
    How come 4 equations ? Wont there be 4 equations to be solved for each distribution ? Assuming 4 eq for mean , variance , skewness and kurtosis - And is this applicable to discrete distributions as well ?
    $endgroup$
    – Adurthi Ashwin Swarup
    Jan 5 at 14:02












  • $begingroup$
    You can use a discrete version of this mixture distribution, with no difference in the conclusion.
    $endgroup$
    – Xi'an
    Jan 5 at 14:14














11












11








11





$begingroup$

Take a mixture of two Normal distributions with density
$$f(x|mu_1,mu_2,sigma_1,sigma_2,omega)=
frac{omega}{sqrt{2pi}sigma_1}exp{-(x-mu_1)^2/2sigma_1^2}+
frac{1-omega}{sqrt{2pi}sigma_2}exp{-(x-mu_2)^2/2sigma_2^2}$$

This distribution has five parameters constrained by four equations
begin{align*}
mathbb{E}[X]&=omegamu_1+(1-omega)mu_2\
text{var}(X)&=omegasigma_1^2+(1-omega)sigma_2^2+omega(mu_1-mathbb{E}[X])^2+(1-omega)(mu_2-mathbb{E}[X])^2\
mathbb{E}[X^3]&=ldots\
mathbb{E}[X^4]&=ldots
end{align*}

Assuming these equations are compatible, there is therefore an infinite number of solutions $(mu_1,mu_2,sigma_1,sigma_2,omega)$.






share|cite|improve this answer











$endgroup$



Take a mixture of two Normal distributions with density
$$f(x|mu_1,mu_2,sigma_1,sigma_2,omega)=
frac{omega}{sqrt{2pi}sigma_1}exp{-(x-mu_1)^2/2sigma_1^2}+
frac{1-omega}{sqrt{2pi}sigma_2}exp{-(x-mu_2)^2/2sigma_2^2}$$

This distribution has five parameters constrained by four equations
begin{align*}
mathbb{E}[X]&=omegamu_1+(1-omega)mu_2\
text{var}(X)&=omegasigma_1^2+(1-omega)sigma_2^2+omega(mu_1-mathbb{E}[X])^2+(1-omega)(mu_2-mathbb{E}[X])^2\
mathbb{E}[X^3]&=ldots\
mathbb{E}[X^4]&=ldots
end{align*}

Assuming these equations are compatible, there is therefore an infinite number of solutions $(mu_1,mu_2,sigma_1,sigma_2,omega)$.







share|cite|improve this answer














share|cite|improve this answer



share|cite|improve this answer








edited Jan 5 at 14:12

























answered Jan 5 at 10:22









Xi'anXi'an

59.2k897366




59.2k897366












  • $begingroup$
    How come 4 equations ? Wont there be 4 equations to be solved for each distribution ? Assuming 4 eq for mean , variance , skewness and kurtosis - And is this applicable to discrete distributions as well ?
    $endgroup$
    – Adurthi Ashwin Swarup
    Jan 5 at 14:02












  • $begingroup$
    You can use a discrete version of this mixture distribution, with no difference in the conclusion.
    $endgroup$
    – Xi'an
    Jan 5 at 14:14


















  • $begingroup$
    How come 4 equations ? Wont there be 4 equations to be solved for each distribution ? Assuming 4 eq for mean , variance , skewness and kurtosis - And is this applicable to discrete distributions as well ?
    $endgroup$
    – Adurthi Ashwin Swarup
    Jan 5 at 14:02












  • $begingroup$
    You can use a discrete version of this mixture distribution, with no difference in the conclusion.
    $endgroup$
    – Xi'an
    Jan 5 at 14:14
















$begingroup$
How come 4 equations ? Wont there be 4 equations to be solved for each distribution ? Assuming 4 eq for mean , variance , skewness and kurtosis - And is this applicable to discrete distributions as well ?
$endgroup$
– Adurthi Ashwin Swarup
Jan 5 at 14:02






$begingroup$
How come 4 equations ? Wont there be 4 equations to be solved for each distribution ? Assuming 4 eq for mean , variance , skewness and kurtosis - And is this applicable to discrete distributions as well ?
$endgroup$
– Adurthi Ashwin Swarup
Jan 5 at 14:02














$begingroup$
You can use a discrete version of this mixture distribution, with no difference in the conclusion.
$endgroup$
– Xi'an
Jan 5 at 14:14




$begingroup$
You can use a discrete version of this mixture distribution, with no difference in the conclusion.
$endgroup$
– Xi'an
Jan 5 at 14:14


















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