If $int_0^x f dm$ is zero everywhere then $f$ is zero almost everywhere
I have been thinking on and off about a problem for some time now. It is inspired by an exam problem which I solved but I wanted to find an alternative solution. The object was to prove that some sequence of functions converges weakly to zero in $L^2$.
I managed to show (with some help) that the limit $f$ (of a subsequence) satisfies $int_0^x f dm=0$ for all $x>0 $. From this I want to conclude that $f=0$ a.e. I can do this with the fundamental theorem of calculus in its Lebesgue version but there ought to be a more elementary proof.
Can someone here help me out?
integration
add a comment |
I have been thinking on and off about a problem for some time now. It is inspired by an exam problem which I solved but I wanted to find an alternative solution. The object was to prove that some sequence of functions converges weakly to zero in $L^2$.
I managed to show (with some help) that the limit $f$ (of a subsequence) satisfies $int_0^x f dm=0$ for all $x>0 $. From this I want to conclude that $f=0$ a.e. I can do this with the fundamental theorem of calculus in its Lebesgue version but there ought to be a more elementary proof.
Can someone here help me out?
integration
add a comment |
I have been thinking on and off about a problem for some time now. It is inspired by an exam problem which I solved but I wanted to find an alternative solution. The object was to prove that some sequence of functions converges weakly to zero in $L^2$.
I managed to show (with some help) that the limit $f$ (of a subsequence) satisfies $int_0^x f dm=0$ for all $x>0 $. From this I want to conclude that $f=0$ a.e. I can do this with the fundamental theorem of calculus in its Lebesgue version but there ought to be a more elementary proof.
Can someone here help me out?
integration
I have been thinking on and off about a problem for some time now. It is inspired by an exam problem which I solved but I wanted to find an alternative solution. The object was to prove that some sequence of functions converges weakly to zero in $L^2$.
I managed to show (with some help) that the limit $f$ (of a subsequence) satisfies $int_0^x f dm=0$ for all $x>0 $. From this I want to conclude that $f=0$ a.e. I can do this with the fundamental theorem of calculus in its Lebesgue version but there ought to be a more elementary proof.
Can someone here help me out?
integration
integration
asked Jan 3 '11 at 16:22
Johan
1,2011821
1,2011821
add a comment |
add a comment |
5 Answers
5
active
oldest
votes
Indeed, as you expected, a simple proof of the result can be found; see Theorem 2.1 in this useful note on absolutely continuous functions.
EDIT: Since this is a quite important result, it is worth giving here the proof in detail. The proof below is essentially the one given in the link above, but somewhat shorter.
Theorem. If $f$ is integrable on $[a, b]$ and $int_a^x {f(t) dt} = 0$ $forall x in [a,b]$, then $f = 0$ a.e. on $[a, b]$.
Proof. An open subset $O$ of $[a,b]$ is a countable union of disjoint open intervals $(c_n, d_n)$; hence,
$$ int_O {f(t) dt} = sumlimits_{n = 1}^infty {int_{c_n }^{d_n } {f(t) dt} } = 0 $$.
If $K$ is a closed subset of $[a,b]$, then
$$ int_K {f(t) dt} = int_a^b f(t)dt - int_{(a, b) setminus K} f(t)dt = 0 - 0 = 0, $$
since $ (a, b) setminus K $ is open.
Next let $E_ + = { x in [a,b]:f(x) > 0}$ and $E_ - = { x in [a,b]:f(x) < 0}$. If $lambda(E_+) > 0$, then there exists some closed set $K subset E_+$ such that $lambda(K) > 0$. But $int_K {f(t){rm d}t} = 0$, hence $f=0$ a.e. on $K$. This contradiction shows that $lambda(E_+) = 0$. Similarly, $lambda(E_-) = 0$. The theorem is thus established.
2
$[a,b]setminus K$ is not necessarily open.
– nullUser
Oct 4 '12 at 1:47
add a comment |
It is sufficient to prove that $f$ is zero almost everywhere on any bounded interval.
(1) By additivity it is easy to see that $$int_a^bf(x)dx=int_0^bf(x)dx - int_0^af(x)dx$$ for all bounded intervals $(a,b)$ (and also for $[a,b)$, $(a,b]$ and $[a,b]$).
(2) Using (1) it is easy to see that $$int_Bf(x)dx=0$$ for any bounded Borel measurable set.
(3) Any Lebesgue measurable set $A$ is of the form $A=Bcup Z$ where $B$ is a Borel measurable set and $Z$ is a set of measure zero. Hence, by (2) we acheive
$$int_A f(x)dx= 0$$
for any bounded Lebesgue measurable set $A$.
(4) Now look at the sets $A_+(n)={x:f(x)>0}cap[-n,n]$ and $A_-(n)=[-n,n]setminus A_+(n)$. Assuming $f$ is measurable these sets are also measurable and by (3)
$$int_{A_pm(n)}f(x)dx=0$$
EDIT: and hence $f=0$ almost everywhere.
Please forgive me if I write $dx$ for the Lebesgue measure which I presume is what you refer to as $dm$.
Yes, that is what I mean by $dm$. Very nice argument.
– Johan
Jan 3 '11 at 23:00
How elementary is a proof of (3)?
– Aryabhata
Jan 4 '11 at 22:31
@Moron: Well, perhaps as elementary as the existence of the Lebesgue measure.
– AD.
Jan 5 '11 at 6:48
Never mind, I found a proof. It seems to be actually quite similar to my answer.
– Aryabhata
Jan 5 '11 at 7:16
1
@Moron: (2) is easier than that by (1) $int_I f dx=0$ for all bounded intervals $I$ and those intervals ($sigma-$)generates the bounded Borel sets.
– AD.
Jan 9 '11 at 7:44
|
show 2 more comments
I think you can use Dynkin's lemma (if you call this "more elementary").
Let D be all the measurable sets $Usubseteq I=[0,1]$ such that $intop_U f(t) = 0$ (the function $fmid_I$ is in $L_2$ so it is also in $L_1$, so I assume this from now). $Iin D$ and if $Asubseteq Bsubseteq I$ are in $D$ then $B-A in D$. If $A_i subseteq I$ is an increasing sequence in D then $bigcup A_i subseteq I$ is also in D (by the DCT). This shows that D is a Dynkin system.
Let P be all the open intervals in I (so $Psubseteq D$). P is not empty and an intersection of two open intervals are open, so P is closed under finite intersection, hence it is a pi system.
Dynkin's lemma says that if P is a pi system and D a dynkin system such that $Psubseteq D$ then $sigma(P)subseteq D$. The sigma algebra generated by P is the Borel algebra.
Now look on the set $A={xin I mid f(x)geq 0}$. This is a Lebesgue measurable set, so up to a zero measure set it is Borel measurable set $A'$. Since $intop_{A'} f(t) = 0$ and f is non negative there, then f is zero almost every where in A'. The same argument work for when f<0, so you get that f is zero almost everywhere in $I$. Now do this for all of $n+I,;nin mathbb{Z}$.
1
Very nice. The last step is unnecessary if $f$ is Borel measurable, and even if it is only Lebesgue measurable we could use the fact that a Lebesgue measurable function $f$ is a.e. equal to a Borel measurable function $tilde{f}$, and consider $tilde{f}$ instead.
– Nate Eldredge
Jan 3 '11 at 17:48
It was not obvious to me that the integral over a Borel set must be zero, I added a proof of that to my answer.
– Aryabhata
Jan 8 '11 at 23:10
add a comment |
I believe here is an elementary proof (if you are willing to call dominated convergence theorem as elementary).
First a lemma:
Lemma: let $displaystyle A$ be a bounded measurable set and let $displaystyle f in L(A)$. If $A_n subset A$ is a sequence of measurable sets such that
$$ A_1 supset A_2 supset A_3 supset dots$$
and $$lim_{n to infty} m(A_n) = 0$$
then
$$lim_{n to infty} int_{A_n} f text{dm} = 0$$
($displaystyle m(T)$ is the lebesgue measure of $displaystyle T$).
Proof:
It is well known (and has an elementary proof) that $displaystyle X = bigcap_{n=1}^{infty} A_n$ is measurable and $displaystyle m(X) = lim_{n to infty} m(A_n) = 0$.
Now define a sequence of (summable) functions
$displaystyle f_n(x) =
begin{cases} 2 f(x) & x in A_n \
f(x) & text{otherwise}
end{cases}$
Now $displaystyle |f_n(x)| le |2f(x)|$ and $f_n to f$ almost everywhere.
The set of points $displaystyle S$ where $f_n(x) to f(x)$ is not true, satisfies $displaystyle S subset X$ and hence is measurable and $displaystyle m(S) = 0$.
By the dominated convergence theorem we have that
$$lim_{n to infty} int_{A} f_n = int_{A} f$$
But we have that
$$int_{A} f_n = int_{A} f + int_{A_n} f$$
Thus
$$lim_{n to infty} int_{A_n} f = 0$$
$displaystyle circ$
Note that if $displaystyle f$ was bounded, then there is a much simpler proof of the above lemma, which does not make use of the dominated convergence theorem.
Now back to the original problem.
Let $displaystyle P_n = { x : f(x) ge frac{1}{n} }$.
If the set $displaystyle P = {x : f(x) gt 0} = bigcup P_n$ is of positive measure, then there is an $displaystyle n$ for which $displaystyle m(P_n) gt 0$. Now if $displaystyle P_n$ is unbounded, there is some $displaystyle M$ for which $displaystyle m(P_n cap [M, M+1]) gt 0$. Call that set $displaystyle A$.
Notice that $displaystyle int_{A} f ge frac{m(A)}{n} gt 0$.
Now give an integer $displaystyle k gt 0$, there is an open set $displaystyle G_k supset A$ such that $displaystyle m(G_k-A) lt frac{1}{k}$.
Note that we can choose the $displaystyle G_i$ such that $displaystyle G_1 supset G_2 supset G_3 supset dots$, by taking $displaystyle G'_k = bigcap_{i = 1}^{k} G_i$.
Now the sequence of sets $displaystyle A_k = G'_k -A$ satisfies the conditions of the above lemma,
we also have
$$int_{G'_k} f = int_{A} f + int_{A_k} f$$
Now since $displaystyle G'_{k}$ is a countable union of intervals, we have that $displaystyle int_{G'_k} f = 0$, since over every interval, the integral of $displaystyle f$ is $displaystyle 0$.
Thus
$$int_{A} f + int_{A_k} f = 0$$
Taking limits, and applying above lemma, we get
$$int_{A} f = 0$$
A contradiction. Similarly, we can show that negative set of $displaystyle f$ is of measure $displaystyle 0$ (or just consider $displaystyle -f$).
Hence $displaystyle f = 0 text{a.e}$
Note: Since this answer almost proves two claims made by other answers, I am including a sketch of proof of those here:
Claim 1) For any measurable set $displaystyle A$, there is a Borel Set $displaystyle B supset A$ such that $displaystyle m(B) = m(A)$.
For a proof of that, consider the $displaystyle G'_{k}$ above. $displaystyle B = bigcap_{k=1}^{infty} G'_{k}$ is a Borel set such that $displaystyle m(B) = m(A)$, as $displaystyle m(B) = lim_{k to infty} m(G'_{k}) = m(A)$.
Claim 2) For the $displaystyle f$ in the problem, for any Borel set $displaystyle B$, $displaystyle int_{B} f = 0$.
The proof above actually shows that for any measurable set $displaystyle E$, $displaystyle int_{E} f = 0$.
Nice!! But you forgot to mention (I think) how you make $P$ out of $P_n$.
– Jonas Teuwen
Jan 4 '11 at 19:21
@Jonas: Thanks! edited.
– Aryabhata
Jan 4 '11 at 19:58
Nice argument. But I do not understand your use of Lusin's theorem in the alternative solution. How do you conclude that $f$ must be continuous at some point? That the positive set has positive measure is not enough for general functions of course but I do not see how the fact that the function integrates to zero over intervals helps.
– Johan
Jan 5 '11 at 9:54
@Johan: I was mistaken, I missed the 'when restricted to" part of the theorem. In fact the characteristic function of rationals is a counterexample to what I had claimed. I have deleted that portion from the answer.
– Aryabhata
Jan 5 '11 at 19:18
add a comment |
If $F(x)=int_0^x f(t) dt=0$ everywhere, then $F'(x)=0$ for all $x$. Since $f$ is locally integrable, $F'(x)=f(x)$ almost everywhere. Hence $f(x)=0$ almost everywhere.
This uses the fundamental theorem of calculus, which the OP said he wanted to avoid.
– Pete L. Clark
Jan 3 '11 at 16:33
You are right; I did not read closely. Since the OP is working with $L^2$, Lebesgue integration is unavoidable; I don't see the point of trying to avoid this basic theorem in the theoy.
– TCL
Jan 3 '11 at 16:39
3
The only point is that the fundamental theorem of calculus for Lebesgue integrals is treated quite late in the expositions I have seen, after one has proven a great deal of other properties of the integral. But the statement I am seeking to prove seems so simple and intuitive that there ought to be a simple proof.
– Johan
Jan 3 '11 at 22:55
add a comment |
Your Answer
StackExchange.ifUsing("editor", function () {
return StackExchange.using("mathjaxEditing", function () {
StackExchange.MarkdownEditor.creationCallbacks.add(function (editor, postfix) {
StackExchange.mathjaxEditing.prepareWmdForMathJax(editor, postfix, [["$", "$"], ["\\(","\\)"]]);
});
});
}, "mathjax-editing");
StackExchange.ready(function() {
var channelOptions = {
tags: "".split(" "),
id: "69"
};
initTagRenderer("".split(" "), "".split(" "), channelOptions);
StackExchange.using("externalEditor", function() {
// Have to fire editor after snippets, if snippets enabled
if (StackExchange.settings.snippets.snippetsEnabled) {
StackExchange.using("snippets", function() {
createEditor();
});
}
else {
createEditor();
}
});
function createEditor() {
StackExchange.prepareEditor({
heartbeatType: 'answer',
autoActivateHeartbeat: false,
convertImagesToLinks: true,
noModals: true,
showLowRepImageUploadWarning: true,
reputationToPostImages: 10,
bindNavPrevention: true,
postfix: "",
imageUploader: {
brandingHtml: "Powered by u003ca class="icon-imgur-white" href="https://imgur.com/"u003eu003c/au003e",
contentPolicyHtml: "User contributions licensed under u003ca href="https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/"u003ecc by-sa 3.0 with attribution requiredu003c/au003e u003ca href="https://stackoverflow.com/legal/content-policy"u003e(content policy)u003c/au003e",
allowUrls: true
},
noCode: true, onDemand: true,
discardSelector: ".discard-answer"
,immediatelyShowMarkdownHelp:true
});
}
});
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
StackExchange.ready(
function () {
StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fmath.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f16244%2fif-int-0x-f-dm-is-zero-everywhere-then-f-is-zero-almost-everywhere%23new-answer', 'question_page');
}
);
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
5 Answers
5
active
oldest
votes
5 Answers
5
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
Indeed, as you expected, a simple proof of the result can be found; see Theorem 2.1 in this useful note on absolutely continuous functions.
EDIT: Since this is a quite important result, it is worth giving here the proof in detail. The proof below is essentially the one given in the link above, but somewhat shorter.
Theorem. If $f$ is integrable on $[a, b]$ and $int_a^x {f(t) dt} = 0$ $forall x in [a,b]$, then $f = 0$ a.e. on $[a, b]$.
Proof. An open subset $O$ of $[a,b]$ is a countable union of disjoint open intervals $(c_n, d_n)$; hence,
$$ int_O {f(t) dt} = sumlimits_{n = 1}^infty {int_{c_n }^{d_n } {f(t) dt} } = 0 $$.
If $K$ is a closed subset of $[a,b]$, then
$$ int_K {f(t) dt} = int_a^b f(t)dt - int_{(a, b) setminus K} f(t)dt = 0 - 0 = 0, $$
since $ (a, b) setminus K $ is open.
Next let $E_ + = { x in [a,b]:f(x) > 0}$ and $E_ - = { x in [a,b]:f(x) < 0}$. If $lambda(E_+) > 0$, then there exists some closed set $K subset E_+$ such that $lambda(K) > 0$. But $int_K {f(t){rm d}t} = 0$, hence $f=0$ a.e. on $K$. This contradiction shows that $lambda(E_+) = 0$. Similarly, $lambda(E_-) = 0$. The theorem is thus established.
2
$[a,b]setminus K$ is not necessarily open.
– nullUser
Oct 4 '12 at 1:47
add a comment |
Indeed, as you expected, a simple proof of the result can be found; see Theorem 2.1 in this useful note on absolutely continuous functions.
EDIT: Since this is a quite important result, it is worth giving here the proof in detail. The proof below is essentially the one given in the link above, but somewhat shorter.
Theorem. If $f$ is integrable on $[a, b]$ and $int_a^x {f(t) dt} = 0$ $forall x in [a,b]$, then $f = 0$ a.e. on $[a, b]$.
Proof. An open subset $O$ of $[a,b]$ is a countable union of disjoint open intervals $(c_n, d_n)$; hence,
$$ int_O {f(t) dt} = sumlimits_{n = 1}^infty {int_{c_n }^{d_n } {f(t) dt} } = 0 $$.
If $K$ is a closed subset of $[a,b]$, then
$$ int_K {f(t) dt} = int_a^b f(t)dt - int_{(a, b) setminus K} f(t)dt = 0 - 0 = 0, $$
since $ (a, b) setminus K $ is open.
Next let $E_ + = { x in [a,b]:f(x) > 0}$ and $E_ - = { x in [a,b]:f(x) < 0}$. If $lambda(E_+) > 0$, then there exists some closed set $K subset E_+$ such that $lambda(K) > 0$. But $int_K {f(t){rm d}t} = 0$, hence $f=0$ a.e. on $K$. This contradiction shows that $lambda(E_+) = 0$. Similarly, $lambda(E_-) = 0$. The theorem is thus established.
2
$[a,b]setminus K$ is not necessarily open.
– nullUser
Oct 4 '12 at 1:47
add a comment |
Indeed, as you expected, a simple proof of the result can be found; see Theorem 2.1 in this useful note on absolutely continuous functions.
EDIT: Since this is a quite important result, it is worth giving here the proof in detail. The proof below is essentially the one given in the link above, but somewhat shorter.
Theorem. If $f$ is integrable on $[a, b]$ and $int_a^x {f(t) dt} = 0$ $forall x in [a,b]$, then $f = 0$ a.e. on $[a, b]$.
Proof. An open subset $O$ of $[a,b]$ is a countable union of disjoint open intervals $(c_n, d_n)$; hence,
$$ int_O {f(t) dt} = sumlimits_{n = 1}^infty {int_{c_n }^{d_n } {f(t) dt} } = 0 $$.
If $K$ is a closed subset of $[a,b]$, then
$$ int_K {f(t) dt} = int_a^b f(t)dt - int_{(a, b) setminus K} f(t)dt = 0 - 0 = 0, $$
since $ (a, b) setminus K $ is open.
Next let $E_ + = { x in [a,b]:f(x) > 0}$ and $E_ - = { x in [a,b]:f(x) < 0}$. If $lambda(E_+) > 0$, then there exists some closed set $K subset E_+$ such that $lambda(K) > 0$. But $int_K {f(t){rm d}t} = 0$, hence $f=0$ a.e. on $K$. This contradiction shows that $lambda(E_+) = 0$. Similarly, $lambda(E_-) = 0$. The theorem is thus established.
Indeed, as you expected, a simple proof of the result can be found; see Theorem 2.1 in this useful note on absolutely continuous functions.
EDIT: Since this is a quite important result, it is worth giving here the proof in detail. The proof below is essentially the one given in the link above, but somewhat shorter.
Theorem. If $f$ is integrable on $[a, b]$ and $int_a^x {f(t) dt} = 0$ $forall x in [a,b]$, then $f = 0$ a.e. on $[a, b]$.
Proof. An open subset $O$ of $[a,b]$ is a countable union of disjoint open intervals $(c_n, d_n)$; hence,
$$ int_O {f(t) dt} = sumlimits_{n = 1}^infty {int_{c_n }^{d_n } {f(t) dt} } = 0 $$.
If $K$ is a closed subset of $[a,b]$, then
$$ int_K {f(t) dt} = int_a^b f(t)dt - int_{(a, b) setminus K} f(t)dt = 0 - 0 = 0, $$
since $ (a, b) setminus K $ is open.
Next let $E_ + = { x in [a,b]:f(x) > 0}$ and $E_ - = { x in [a,b]:f(x) < 0}$. If $lambda(E_+) > 0$, then there exists some closed set $K subset E_+$ such that $lambda(K) > 0$. But $int_K {f(t){rm d}t} = 0$, hence $f=0$ a.e. on $K$. This contradiction shows that $lambda(E_+) = 0$. Similarly, $lambda(E_-) = 0$. The theorem is thus established.
edited Nov 29 at 21:08
dasaphro
16512
16512
answered Jan 4 '11 at 6:09
Shai Covo
21.2k23053
21.2k23053
2
$[a,b]setminus K$ is not necessarily open.
– nullUser
Oct 4 '12 at 1:47
add a comment |
2
$[a,b]setminus K$ is not necessarily open.
– nullUser
Oct 4 '12 at 1:47
2
2
$[a,b]setminus K$ is not necessarily open.
– nullUser
Oct 4 '12 at 1:47
$[a,b]setminus K$ is not necessarily open.
– nullUser
Oct 4 '12 at 1:47
add a comment |
It is sufficient to prove that $f$ is zero almost everywhere on any bounded interval.
(1) By additivity it is easy to see that $$int_a^bf(x)dx=int_0^bf(x)dx - int_0^af(x)dx$$ for all bounded intervals $(a,b)$ (and also for $[a,b)$, $(a,b]$ and $[a,b]$).
(2) Using (1) it is easy to see that $$int_Bf(x)dx=0$$ for any bounded Borel measurable set.
(3) Any Lebesgue measurable set $A$ is of the form $A=Bcup Z$ where $B$ is a Borel measurable set and $Z$ is a set of measure zero. Hence, by (2) we acheive
$$int_A f(x)dx= 0$$
for any bounded Lebesgue measurable set $A$.
(4) Now look at the sets $A_+(n)={x:f(x)>0}cap[-n,n]$ and $A_-(n)=[-n,n]setminus A_+(n)$. Assuming $f$ is measurable these sets are also measurable and by (3)
$$int_{A_pm(n)}f(x)dx=0$$
EDIT: and hence $f=0$ almost everywhere.
Please forgive me if I write $dx$ for the Lebesgue measure which I presume is what you refer to as $dm$.
Yes, that is what I mean by $dm$. Very nice argument.
– Johan
Jan 3 '11 at 23:00
How elementary is a proof of (3)?
– Aryabhata
Jan 4 '11 at 22:31
@Moron: Well, perhaps as elementary as the existence of the Lebesgue measure.
– AD.
Jan 5 '11 at 6:48
Never mind, I found a proof. It seems to be actually quite similar to my answer.
– Aryabhata
Jan 5 '11 at 7:16
1
@Moron: (2) is easier than that by (1) $int_I f dx=0$ for all bounded intervals $I$ and those intervals ($sigma-$)generates the bounded Borel sets.
– AD.
Jan 9 '11 at 7:44
|
show 2 more comments
It is sufficient to prove that $f$ is zero almost everywhere on any bounded interval.
(1) By additivity it is easy to see that $$int_a^bf(x)dx=int_0^bf(x)dx - int_0^af(x)dx$$ for all bounded intervals $(a,b)$ (and also for $[a,b)$, $(a,b]$ and $[a,b]$).
(2) Using (1) it is easy to see that $$int_Bf(x)dx=0$$ for any bounded Borel measurable set.
(3) Any Lebesgue measurable set $A$ is of the form $A=Bcup Z$ where $B$ is a Borel measurable set and $Z$ is a set of measure zero. Hence, by (2) we acheive
$$int_A f(x)dx= 0$$
for any bounded Lebesgue measurable set $A$.
(4) Now look at the sets $A_+(n)={x:f(x)>0}cap[-n,n]$ and $A_-(n)=[-n,n]setminus A_+(n)$. Assuming $f$ is measurable these sets are also measurable and by (3)
$$int_{A_pm(n)}f(x)dx=0$$
EDIT: and hence $f=0$ almost everywhere.
Please forgive me if I write $dx$ for the Lebesgue measure which I presume is what you refer to as $dm$.
Yes, that is what I mean by $dm$. Very nice argument.
– Johan
Jan 3 '11 at 23:00
How elementary is a proof of (3)?
– Aryabhata
Jan 4 '11 at 22:31
@Moron: Well, perhaps as elementary as the existence of the Lebesgue measure.
– AD.
Jan 5 '11 at 6:48
Never mind, I found a proof. It seems to be actually quite similar to my answer.
– Aryabhata
Jan 5 '11 at 7:16
1
@Moron: (2) is easier than that by (1) $int_I f dx=0$ for all bounded intervals $I$ and those intervals ($sigma-$)generates the bounded Borel sets.
– AD.
Jan 9 '11 at 7:44
|
show 2 more comments
It is sufficient to prove that $f$ is zero almost everywhere on any bounded interval.
(1) By additivity it is easy to see that $$int_a^bf(x)dx=int_0^bf(x)dx - int_0^af(x)dx$$ for all bounded intervals $(a,b)$ (and also for $[a,b)$, $(a,b]$ and $[a,b]$).
(2) Using (1) it is easy to see that $$int_Bf(x)dx=0$$ for any bounded Borel measurable set.
(3) Any Lebesgue measurable set $A$ is of the form $A=Bcup Z$ where $B$ is a Borel measurable set and $Z$ is a set of measure zero. Hence, by (2) we acheive
$$int_A f(x)dx= 0$$
for any bounded Lebesgue measurable set $A$.
(4) Now look at the sets $A_+(n)={x:f(x)>0}cap[-n,n]$ and $A_-(n)=[-n,n]setminus A_+(n)$. Assuming $f$ is measurable these sets are also measurable and by (3)
$$int_{A_pm(n)}f(x)dx=0$$
EDIT: and hence $f=0$ almost everywhere.
Please forgive me if I write $dx$ for the Lebesgue measure which I presume is what you refer to as $dm$.
It is sufficient to prove that $f$ is zero almost everywhere on any bounded interval.
(1) By additivity it is easy to see that $$int_a^bf(x)dx=int_0^bf(x)dx - int_0^af(x)dx$$ for all bounded intervals $(a,b)$ (and also for $[a,b)$, $(a,b]$ and $[a,b]$).
(2) Using (1) it is easy to see that $$int_Bf(x)dx=0$$ for any bounded Borel measurable set.
(3) Any Lebesgue measurable set $A$ is of the form $A=Bcup Z$ where $B$ is a Borel measurable set and $Z$ is a set of measure zero. Hence, by (2) we acheive
$$int_A f(x)dx= 0$$
for any bounded Lebesgue measurable set $A$.
(4) Now look at the sets $A_+(n)={x:f(x)>0}cap[-n,n]$ and $A_-(n)=[-n,n]setminus A_+(n)$. Assuming $f$ is measurable these sets are also measurable and by (3)
$$int_{A_pm(n)}f(x)dx=0$$
EDIT: and hence $f=0$ almost everywhere.
Please forgive me if I write $dx$ for the Lebesgue measure which I presume is what you refer to as $dm$.
edited Jan 4 '11 at 14:09
answered Jan 3 '11 at 21:34
AD.
8,65383161
8,65383161
Yes, that is what I mean by $dm$. Very nice argument.
– Johan
Jan 3 '11 at 23:00
How elementary is a proof of (3)?
– Aryabhata
Jan 4 '11 at 22:31
@Moron: Well, perhaps as elementary as the existence of the Lebesgue measure.
– AD.
Jan 5 '11 at 6:48
Never mind, I found a proof. It seems to be actually quite similar to my answer.
– Aryabhata
Jan 5 '11 at 7:16
1
@Moron: (2) is easier than that by (1) $int_I f dx=0$ for all bounded intervals $I$ and those intervals ($sigma-$)generates the bounded Borel sets.
– AD.
Jan 9 '11 at 7:44
|
show 2 more comments
Yes, that is what I mean by $dm$. Very nice argument.
– Johan
Jan 3 '11 at 23:00
How elementary is a proof of (3)?
– Aryabhata
Jan 4 '11 at 22:31
@Moron: Well, perhaps as elementary as the existence of the Lebesgue measure.
– AD.
Jan 5 '11 at 6:48
Never mind, I found a proof. It seems to be actually quite similar to my answer.
– Aryabhata
Jan 5 '11 at 7:16
1
@Moron: (2) is easier than that by (1) $int_I f dx=0$ for all bounded intervals $I$ and those intervals ($sigma-$)generates the bounded Borel sets.
– AD.
Jan 9 '11 at 7:44
Yes, that is what I mean by $dm$. Very nice argument.
– Johan
Jan 3 '11 at 23:00
Yes, that is what I mean by $dm$. Very nice argument.
– Johan
Jan 3 '11 at 23:00
How elementary is a proof of (3)?
– Aryabhata
Jan 4 '11 at 22:31
How elementary is a proof of (3)?
– Aryabhata
Jan 4 '11 at 22:31
@Moron: Well, perhaps as elementary as the existence of the Lebesgue measure.
– AD.
Jan 5 '11 at 6:48
@Moron: Well, perhaps as elementary as the existence of the Lebesgue measure.
– AD.
Jan 5 '11 at 6:48
Never mind, I found a proof. It seems to be actually quite similar to my answer.
– Aryabhata
Jan 5 '11 at 7:16
Never mind, I found a proof. It seems to be actually quite similar to my answer.
– Aryabhata
Jan 5 '11 at 7:16
1
1
@Moron: (2) is easier than that by (1) $int_I f dx=0$ for all bounded intervals $I$ and those intervals ($sigma-$)generates the bounded Borel sets.
– AD.
Jan 9 '11 at 7:44
@Moron: (2) is easier than that by (1) $int_I f dx=0$ for all bounded intervals $I$ and those intervals ($sigma-$)generates the bounded Borel sets.
– AD.
Jan 9 '11 at 7:44
|
show 2 more comments
I think you can use Dynkin's lemma (if you call this "more elementary").
Let D be all the measurable sets $Usubseteq I=[0,1]$ such that $intop_U f(t) = 0$ (the function $fmid_I$ is in $L_2$ so it is also in $L_1$, so I assume this from now). $Iin D$ and if $Asubseteq Bsubseteq I$ are in $D$ then $B-A in D$. If $A_i subseteq I$ is an increasing sequence in D then $bigcup A_i subseteq I$ is also in D (by the DCT). This shows that D is a Dynkin system.
Let P be all the open intervals in I (so $Psubseteq D$). P is not empty and an intersection of two open intervals are open, so P is closed under finite intersection, hence it is a pi system.
Dynkin's lemma says that if P is a pi system and D a dynkin system such that $Psubseteq D$ then $sigma(P)subseteq D$. The sigma algebra generated by P is the Borel algebra.
Now look on the set $A={xin I mid f(x)geq 0}$. This is a Lebesgue measurable set, so up to a zero measure set it is Borel measurable set $A'$. Since $intop_{A'} f(t) = 0$ and f is non negative there, then f is zero almost every where in A'. The same argument work for when f<0, so you get that f is zero almost everywhere in $I$. Now do this for all of $n+I,;nin mathbb{Z}$.
1
Very nice. The last step is unnecessary if $f$ is Borel measurable, and even if it is only Lebesgue measurable we could use the fact that a Lebesgue measurable function $f$ is a.e. equal to a Borel measurable function $tilde{f}$, and consider $tilde{f}$ instead.
– Nate Eldredge
Jan 3 '11 at 17:48
It was not obvious to me that the integral over a Borel set must be zero, I added a proof of that to my answer.
– Aryabhata
Jan 8 '11 at 23:10
add a comment |
I think you can use Dynkin's lemma (if you call this "more elementary").
Let D be all the measurable sets $Usubseteq I=[0,1]$ such that $intop_U f(t) = 0$ (the function $fmid_I$ is in $L_2$ so it is also in $L_1$, so I assume this from now). $Iin D$ and if $Asubseteq Bsubseteq I$ are in $D$ then $B-A in D$. If $A_i subseteq I$ is an increasing sequence in D then $bigcup A_i subseteq I$ is also in D (by the DCT). This shows that D is a Dynkin system.
Let P be all the open intervals in I (so $Psubseteq D$). P is not empty and an intersection of two open intervals are open, so P is closed under finite intersection, hence it is a pi system.
Dynkin's lemma says that if P is a pi system and D a dynkin system such that $Psubseteq D$ then $sigma(P)subseteq D$. The sigma algebra generated by P is the Borel algebra.
Now look on the set $A={xin I mid f(x)geq 0}$. This is a Lebesgue measurable set, so up to a zero measure set it is Borel measurable set $A'$. Since $intop_{A'} f(t) = 0$ and f is non negative there, then f is zero almost every where in A'. The same argument work for when f<0, so you get that f is zero almost everywhere in $I$. Now do this for all of $n+I,;nin mathbb{Z}$.
1
Very nice. The last step is unnecessary if $f$ is Borel measurable, and even if it is only Lebesgue measurable we could use the fact that a Lebesgue measurable function $f$ is a.e. equal to a Borel measurable function $tilde{f}$, and consider $tilde{f}$ instead.
– Nate Eldredge
Jan 3 '11 at 17:48
It was not obvious to me that the integral over a Borel set must be zero, I added a proof of that to my answer.
– Aryabhata
Jan 8 '11 at 23:10
add a comment |
I think you can use Dynkin's lemma (if you call this "more elementary").
Let D be all the measurable sets $Usubseteq I=[0,1]$ such that $intop_U f(t) = 0$ (the function $fmid_I$ is in $L_2$ so it is also in $L_1$, so I assume this from now). $Iin D$ and if $Asubseteq Bsubseteq I$ are in $D$ then $B-A in D$. If $A_i subseteq I$ is an increasing sequence in D then $bigcup A_i subseteq I$ is also in D (by the DCT). This shows that D is a Dynkin system.
Let P be all the open intervals in I (so $Psubseteq D$). P is not empty and an intersection of two open intervals are open, so P is closed under finite intersection, hence it is a pi system.
Dynkin's lemma says that if P is a pi system and D a dynkin system such that $Psubseteq D$ then $sigma(P)subseteq D$. The sigma algebra generated by P is the Borel algebra.
Now look on the set $A={xin I mid f(x)geq 0}$. This is a Lebesgue measurable set, so up to a zero measure set it is Borel measurable set $A'$. Since $intop_{A'} f(t) = 0$ and f is non negative there, then f is zero almost every where in A'. The same argument work for when f<0, so you get that f is zero almost everywhere in $I$. Now do this for all of $n+I,;nin mathbb{Z}$.
I think you can use Dynkin's lemma (if you call this "more elementary").
Let D be all the measurable sets $Usubseteq I=[0,1]$ such that $intop_U f(t) = 0$ (the function $fmid_I$ is in $L_2$ so it is also in $L_1$, so I assume this from now). $Iin D$ and if $Asubseteq Bsubseteq I$ are in $D$ then $B-A in D$. If $A_i subseteq I$ is an increasing sequence in D then $bigcup A_i subseteq I$ is also in D (by the DCT). This shows that D is a Dynkin system.
Let P be all the open intervals in I (so $Psubseteq D$). P is not empty and an intersection of two open intervals are open, so P is closed under finite intersection, hence it is a pi system.
Dynkin's lemma says that if P is a pi system and D a dynkin system such that $Psubseteq D$ then $sigma(P)subseteq D$. The sigma algebra generated by P is the Borel algebra.
Now look on the set $A={xin I mid f(x)geq 0}$. This is a Lebesgue measurable set, so up to a zero measure set it is Borel measurable set $A'$. Since $intop_{A'} f(t) = 0$ and f is non negative there, then f is zero almost every where in A'. The same argument work for when f<0, so you get that f is zero almost everywhere in $I$. Now do this for all of $n+I,;nin mathbb{Z}$.
answered Jan 3 '11 at 17:30
Ofir
6,56012035
6,56012035
1
Very nice. The last step is unnecessary if $f$ is Borel measurable, and even if it is only Lebesgue measurable we could use the fact that a Lebesgue measurable function $f$ is a.e. equal to a Borel measurable function $tilde{f}$, and consider $tilde{f}$ instead.
– Nate Eldredge
Jan 3 '11 at 17:48
It was not obvious to me that the integral over a Borel set must be zero, I added a proof of that to my answer.
– Aryabhata
Jan 8 '11 at 23:10
add a comment |
1
Very nice. The last step is unnecessary if $f$ is Borel measurable, and even if it is only Lebesgue measurable we could use the fact that a Lebesgue measurable function $f$ is a.e. equal to a Borel measurable function $tilde{f}$, and consider $tilde{f}$ instead.
– Nate Eldredge
Jan 3 '11 at 17:48
It was not obvious to me that the integral over a Borel set must be zero, I added a proof of that to my answer.
– Aryabhata
Jan 8 '11 at 23:10
1
1
Very nice. The last step is unnecessary if $f$ is Borel measurable, and even if it is only Lebesgue measurable we could use the fact that a Lebesgue measurable function $f$ is a.e. equal to a Borel measurable function $tilde{f}$, and consider $tilde{f}$ instead.
– Nate Eldredge
Jan 3 '11 at 17:48
Very nice. The last step is unnecessary if $f$ is Borel measurable, and even if it is only Lebesgue measurable we could use the fact that a Lebesgue measurable function $f$ is a.e. equal to a Borel measurable function $tilde{f}$, and consider $tilde{f}$ instead.
– Nate Eldredge
Jan 3 '11 at 17:48
It was not obvious to me that the integral over a Borel set must be zero, I added a proof of that to my answer.
– Aryabhata
Jan 8 '11 at 23:10
It was not obvious to me that the integral over a Borel set must be zero, I added a proof of that to my answer.
– Aryabhata
Jan 8 '11 at 23:10
add a comment |
I believe here is an elementary proof (if you are willing to call dominated convergence theorem as elementary).
First a lemma:
Lemma: let $displaystyle A$ be a bounded measurable set and let $displaystyle f in L(A)$. If $A_n subset A$ is a sequence of measurable sets such that
$$ A_1 supset A_2 supset A_3 supset dots$$
and $$lim_{n to infty} m(A_n) = 0$$
then
$$lim_{n to infty} int_{A_n} f text{dm} = 0$$
($displaystyle m(T)$ is the lebesgue measure of $displaystyle T$).
Proof:
It is well known (and has an elementary proof) that $displaystyle X = bigcap_{n=1}^{infty} A_n$ is measurable and $displaystyle m(X) = lim_{n to infty} m(A_n) = 0$.
Now define a sequence of (summable) functions
$displaystyle f_n(x) =
begin{cases} 2 f(x) & x in A_n \
f(x) & text{otherwise}
end{cases}$
Now $displaystyle |f_n(x)| le |2f(x)|$ and $f_n to f$ almost everywhere.
The set of points $displaystyle S$ where $f_n(x) to f(x)$ is not true, satisfies $displaystyle S subset X$ and hence is measurable and $displaystyle m(S) = 0$.
By the dominated convergence theorem we have that
$$lim_{n to infty} int_{A} f_n = int_{A} f$$
But we have that
$$int_{A} f_n = int_{A} f + int_{A_n} f$$
Thus
$$lim_{n to infty} int_{A_n} f = 0$$
$displaystyle circ$
Note that if $displaystyle f$ was bounded, then there is a much simpler proof of the above lemma, which does not make use of the dominated convergence theorem.
Now back to the original problem.
Let $displaystyle P_n = { x : f(x) ge frac{1}{n} }$.
If the set $displaystyle P = {x : f(x) gt 0} = bigcup P_n$ is of positive measure, then there is an $displaystyle n$ for which $displaystyle m(P_n) gt 0$. Now if $displaystyle P_n$ is unbounded, there is some $displaystyle M$ for which $displaystyle m(P_n cap [M, M+1]) gt 0$. Call that set $displaystyle A$.
Notice that $displaystyle int_{A} f ge frac{m(A)}{n} gt 0$.
Now give an integer $displaystyle k gt 0$, there is an open set $displaystyle G_k supset A$ such that $displaystyle m(G_k-A) lt frac{1}{k}$.
Note that we can choose the $displaystyle G_i$ such that $displaystyle G_1 supset G_2 supset G_3 supset dots$, by taking $displaystyle G'_k = bigcap_{i = 1}^{k} G_i$.
Now the sequence of sets $displaystyle A_k = G'_k -A$ satisfies the conditions of the above lemma,
we also have
$$int_{G'_k} f = int_{A} f + int_{A_k} f$$
Now since $displaystyle G'_{k}$ is a countable union of intervals, we have that $displaystyle int_{G'_k} f = 0$, since over every interval, the integral of $displaystyle f$ is $displaystyle 0$.
Thus
$$int_{A} f + int_{A_k} f = 0$$
Taking limits, and applying above lemma, we get
$$int_{A} f = 0$$
A contradiction. Similarly, we can show that negative set of $displaystyle f$ is of measure $displaystyle 0$ (or just consider $displaystyle -f$).
Hence $displaystyle f = 0 text{a.e}$
Note: Since this answer almost proves two claims made by other answers, I am including a sketch of proof of those here:
Claim 1) For any measurable set $displaystyle A$, there is a Borel Set $displaystyle B supset A$ such that $displaystyle m(B) = m(A)$.
For a proof of that, consider the $displaystyle G'_{k}$ above. $displaystyle B = bigcap_{k=1}^{infty} G'_{k}$ is a Borel set such that $displaystyle m(B) = m(A)$, as $displaystyle m(B) = lim_{k to infty} m(G'_{k}) = m(A)$.
Claim 2) For the $displaystyle f$ in the problem, for any Borel set $displaystyle B$, $displaystyle int_{B} f = 0$.
The proof above actually shows that for any measurable set $displaystyle E$, $displaystyle int_{E} f = 0$.
Nice!! But you forgot to mention (I think) how you make $P$ out of $P_n$.
– Jonas Teuwen
Jan 4 '11 at 19:21
@Jonas: Thanks! edited.
– Aryabhata
Jan 4 '11 at 19:58
Nice argument. But I do not understand your use of Lusin's theorem in the alternative solution. How do you conclude that $f$ must be continuous at some point? That the positive set has positive measure is not enough for general functions of course but I do not see how the fact that the function integrates to zero over intervals helps.
– Johan
Jan 5 '11 at 9:54
@Johan: I was mistaken, I missed the 'when restricted to" part of the theorem. In fact the characteristic function of rationals is a counterexample to what I had claimed. I have deleted that portion from the answer.
– Aryabhata
Jan 5 '11 at 19:18
add a comment |
I believe here is an elementary proof (if you are willing to call dominated convergence theorem as elementary).
First a lemma:
Lemma: let $displaystyle A$ be a bounded measurable set and let $displaystyle f in L(A)$. If $A_n subset A$ is a sequence of measurable sets such that
$$ A_1 supset A_2 supset A_3 supset dots$$
and $$lim_{n to infty} m(A_n) = 0$$
then
$$lim_{n to infty} int_{A_n} f text{dm} = 0$$
($displaystyle m(T)$ is the lebesgue measure of $displaystyle T$).
Proof:
It is well known (and has an elementary proof) that $displaystyle X = bigcap_{n=1}^{infty} A_n$ is measurable and $displaystyle m(X) = lim_{n to infty} m(A_n) = 0$.
Now define a sequence of (summable) functions
$displaystyle f_n(x) =
begin{cases} 2 f(x) & x in A_n \
f(x) & text{otherwise}
end{cases}$
Now $displaystyle |f_n(x)| le |2f(x)|$ and $f_n to f$ almost everywhere.
The set of points $displaystyle S$ where $f_n(x) to f(x)$ is not true, satisfies $displaystyle S subset X$ and hence is measurable and $displaystyle m(S) = 0$.
By the dominated convergence theorem we have that
$$lim_{n to infty} int_{A} f_n = int_{A} f$$
But we have that
$$int_{A} f_n = int_{A} f + int_{A_n} f$$
Thus
$$lim_{n to infty} int_{A_n} f = 0$$
$displaystyle circ$
Note that if $displaystyle f$ was bounded, then there is a much simpler proof of the above lemma, which does not make use of the dominated convergence theorem.
Now back to the original problem.
Let $displaystyle P_n = { x : f(x) ge frac{1}{n} }$.
If the set $displaystyle P = {x : f(x) gt 0} = bigcup P_n$ is of positive measure, then there is an $displaystyle n$ for which $displaystyle m(P_n) gt 0$. Now if $displaystyle P_n$ is unbounded, there is some $displaystyle M$ for which $displaystyle m(P_n cap [M, M+1]) gt 0$. Call that set $displaystyle A$.
Notice that $displaystyle int_{A} f ge frac{m(A)}{n} gt 0$.
Now give an integer $displaystyle k gt 0$, there is an open set $displaystyle G_k supset A$ such that $displaystyle m(G_k-A) lt frac{1}{k}$.
Note that we can choose the $displaystyle G_i$ such that $displaystyle G_1 supset G_2 supset G_3 supset dots$, by taking $displaystyle G'_k = bigcap_{i = 1}^{k} G_i$.
Now the sequence of sets $displaystyle A_k = G'_k -A$ satisfies the conditions of the above lemma,
we also have
$$int_{G'_k} f = int_{A} f + int_{A_k} f$$
Now since $displaystyle G'_{k}$ is a countable union of intervals, we have that $displaystyle int_{G'_k} f = 0$, since over every interval, the integral of $displaystyle f$ is $displaystyle 0$.
Thus
$$int_{A} f + int_{A_k} f = 0$$
Taking limits, and applying above lemma, we get
$$int_{A} f = 0$$
A contradiction. Similarly, we can show that negative set of $displaystyle f$ is of measure $displaystyle 0$ (or just consider $displaystyle -f$).
Hence $displaystyle f = 0 text{a.e}$
Note: Since this answer almost proves two claims made by other answers, I am including a sketch of proof of those here:
Claim 1) For any measurable set $displaystyle A$, there is a Borel Set $displaystyle B supset A$ such that $displaystyle m(B) = m(A)$.
For a proof of that, consider the $displaystyle G'_{k}$ above. $displaystyle B = bigcap_{k=1}^{infty} G'_{k}$ is a Borel set such that $displaystyle m(B) = m(A)$, as $displaystyle m(B) = lim_{k to infty} m(G'_{k}) = m(A)$.
Claim 2) For the $displaystyle f$ in the problem, for any Borel set $displaystyle B$, $displaystyle int_{B} f = 0$.
The proof above actually shows that for any measurable set $displaystyle E$, $displaystyle int_{E} f = 0$.
Nice!! But you forgot to mention (I think) how you make $P$ out of $P_n$.
– Jonas Teuwen
Jan 4 '11 at 19:21
@Jonas: Thanks! edited.
– Aryabhata
Jan 4 '11 at 19:58
Nice argument. But I do not understand your use of Lusin's theorem in the alternative solution. How do you conclude that $f$ must be continuous at some point? That the positive set has positive measure is not enough for general functions of course but I do not see how the fact that the function integrates to zero over intervals helps.
– Johan
Jan 5 '11 at 9:54
@Johan: I was mistaken, I missed the 'when restricted to" part of the theorem. In fact the characteristic function of rationals is a counterexample to what I had claimed. I have deleted that portion from the answer.
– Aryabhata
Jan 5 '11 at 19:18
add a comment |
I believe here is an elementary proof (if you are willing to call dominated convergence theorem as elementary).
First a lemma:
Lemma: let $displaystyle A$ be a bounded measurable set and let $displaystyle f in L(A)$. If $A_n subset A$ is a sequence of measurable sets such that
$$ A_1 supset A_2 supset A_3 supset dots$$
and $$lim_{n to infty} m(A_n) = 0$$
then
$$lim_{n to infty} int_{A_n} f text{dm} = 0$$
($displaystyle m(T)$ is the lebesgue measure of $displaystyle T$).
Proof:
It is well known (and has an elementary proof) that $displaystyle X = bigcap_{n=1}^{infty} A_n$ is measurable and $displaystyle m(X) = lim_{n to infty} m(A_n) = 0$.
Now define a sequence of (summable) functions
$displaystyle f_n(x) =
begin{cases} 2 f(x) & x in A_n \
f(x) & text{otherwise}
end{cases}$
Now $displaystyle |f_n(x)| le |2f(x)|$ and $f_n to f$ almost everywhere.
The set of points $displaystyle S$ where $f_n(x) to f(x)$ is not true, satisfies $displaystyle S subset X$ and hence is measurable and $displaystyle m(S) = 0$.
By the dominated convergence theorem we have that
$$lim_{n to infty} int_{A} f_n = int_{A} f$$
But we have that
$$int_{A} f_n = int_{A} f + int_{A_n} f$$
Thus
$$lim_{n to infty} int_{A_n} f = 0$$
$displaystyle circ$
Note that if $displaystyle f$ was bounded, then there is a much simpler proof of the above lemma, which does not make use of the dominated convergence theorem.
Now back to the original problem.
Let $displaystyle P_n = { x : f(x) ge frac{1}{n} }$.
If the set $displaystyle P = {x : f(x) gt 0} = bigcup P_n$ is of positive measure, then there is an $displaystyle n$ for which $displaystyle m(P_n) gt 0$. Now if $displaystyle P_n$ is unbounded, there is some $displaystyle M$ for which $displaystyle m(P_n cap [M, M+1]) gt 0$. Call that set $displaystyle A$.
Notice that $displaystyle int_{A} f ge frac{m(A)}{n} gt 0$.
Now give an integer $displaystyle k gt 0$, there is an open set $displaystyle G_k supset A$ such that $displaystyle m(G_k-A) lt frac{1}{k}$.
Note that we can choose the $displaystyle G_i$ such that $displaystyle G_1 supset G_2 supset G_3 supset dots$, by taking $displaystyle G'_k = bigcap_{i = 1}^{k} G_i$.
Now the sequence of sets $displaystyle A_k = G'_k -A$ satisfies the conditions of the above lemma,
we also have
$$int_{G'_k} f = int_{A} f + int_{A_k} f$$
Now since $displaystyle G'_{k}$ is a countable union of intervals, we have that $displaystyle int_{G'_k} f = 0$, since over every interval, the integral of $displaystyle f$ is $displaystyle 0$.
Thus
$$int_{A} f + int_{A_k} f = 0$$
Taking limits, and applying above lemma, we get
$$int_{A} f = 0$$
A contradiction. Similarly, we can show that negative set of $displaystyle f$ is of measure $displaystyle 0$ (or just consider $displaystyle -f$).
Hence $displaystyle f = 0 text{a.e}$
Note: Since this answer almost proves two claims made by other answers, I am including a sketch of proof of those here:
Claim 1) For any measurable set $displaystyle A$, there is a Borel Set $displaystyle B supset A$ such that $displaystyle m(B) = m(A)$.
For a proof of that, consider the $displaystyle G'_{k}$ above. $displaystyle B = bigcap_{k=1}^{infty} G'_{k}$ is a Borel set such that $displaystyle m(B) = m(A)$, as $displaystyle m(B) = lim_{k to infty} m(G'_{k}) = m(A)$.
Claim 2) For the $displaystyle f$ in the problem, for any Borel set $displaystyle B$, $displaystyle int_{B} f = 0$.
The proof above actually shows that for any measurable set $displaystyle E$, $displaystyle int_{E} f = 0$.
I believe here is an elementary proof (if you are willing to call dominated convergence theorem as elementary).
First a lemma:
Lemma: let $displaystyle A$ be a bounded measurable set and let $displaystyle f in L(A)$. If $A_n subset A$ is a sequence of measurable sets such that
$$ A_1 supset A_2 supset A_3 supset dots$$
and $$lim_{n to infty} m(A_n) = 0$$
then
$$lim_{n to infty} int_{A_n} f text{dm} = 0$$
($displaystyle m(T)$ is the lebesgue measure of $displaystyle T$).
Proof:
It is well known (and has an elementary proof) that $displaystyle X = bigcap_{n=1}^{infty} A_n$ is measurable and $displaystyle m(X) = lim_{n to infty} m(A_n) = 0$.
Now define a sequence of (summable) functions
$displaystyle f_n(x) =
begin{cases} 2 f(x) & x in A_n \
f(x) & text{otherwise}
end{cases}$
Now $displaystyle |f_n(x)| le |2f(x)|$ and $f_n to f$ almost everywhere.
The set of points $displaystyle S$ where $f_n(x) to f(x)$ is not true, satisfies $displaystyle S subset X$ and hence is measurable and $displaystyle m(S) = 0$.
By the dominated convergence theorem we have that
$$lim_{n to infty} int_{A} f_n = int_{A} f$$
But we have that
$$int_{A} f_n = int_{A} f + int_{A_n} f$$
Thus
$$lim_{n to infty} int_{A_n} f = 0$$
$displaystyle circ$
Note that if $displaystyle f$ was bounded, then there is a much simpler proof of the above lemma, which does not make use of the dominated convergence theorem.
Now back to the original problem.
Let $displaystyle P_n = { x : f(x) ge frac{1}{n} }$.
If the set $displaystyle P = {x : f(x) gt 0} = bigcup P_n$ is of positive measure, then there is an $displaystyle n$ for which $displaystyle m(P_n) gt 0$. Now if $displaystyle P_n$ is unbounded, there is some $displaystyle M$ for which $displaystyle m(P_n cap [M, M+1]) gt 0$. Call that set $displaystyle A$.
Notice that $displaystyle int_{A} f ge frac{m(A)}{n} gt 0$.
Now give an integer $displaystyle k gt 0$, there is an open set $displaystyle G_k supset A$ such that $displaystyle m(G_k-A) lt frac{1}{k}$.
Note that we can choose the $displaystyle G_i$ such that $displaystyle G_1 supset G_2 supset G_3 supset dots$, by taking $displaystyle G'_k = bigcap_{i = 1}^{k} G_i$.
Now the sequence of sets $displaystyle A_k = G'_k -A$ satisfies the conditions of the above lemma,
we also have
$$int_{G'_k} f = int_{A} f + int_{A_k} f$$
Now since $displaystyle G'_{k}$ is a countable union of intervals, we have that $displaystyle int_{G'_k} f = 0$, since over every interval, the integral of $displaystyle f$ is $displaystyle 0$.
Thus
$$int_{A} f + int_{A_k} f = 0$$
Taking limits, and applying above lemma, we get
$$int_{A} f = 0$$
A contradiction. Similarly, we can show that negative set of $displaystyle f$ is of measure $displaystyle 0$ (or just consider $displaystyle -f$).
Hence $displaystyle f = 0 text{a.e}$
Note: Since this answer almost proves two claims made by other answers, I am including a sketch of proof of those here:
Claim 1) For any measurable set $displaystyle A$, there is a Borel Set $displaystyle B supset A$ such that $displaystyle m(B) = m(A)$.
For a proof of that, consider the $displaystyle G'_{k}$ above. $displaystyle B = bigcap_{k=1}^{infty} G'_{k}$ is a Borel set such that $displaystyle m(B) = m(A)$, as $displaystyle m(B) = lim_{k to infty} m(G'_{k}) = m(A)$.
Claim 2) For the $displaystyle f$ in the problem, for any Borel set $displaystyle B$, $displaystyle int_{B} f = 0$.
The proof above actually shows that for any measurable set $displaystyle E$, $displaystyle int_{E} f = 0$.
edited Jan 9 '11 at 12:38
answered Jan 4 '11 at 18:55
Aryabhata
70k6156246
70k6156246
Nice!! But you forgot to mention (I think) how you make $P$ out of $P_n$.
– Jonas Teuwen
Jan 4 '11 at 19:21
@Jonas: Thanks! edited.
– Aryabhata
Jan 4 '11 at 19:58
Nice argument. But I do not understand your use of Lusin's theorem in the alternative solution. How do you conclude that $f$ must be continuous at some point? That the positive set has positive measure is not enough for general functions of course but I do not see how the fact that the function integrates to zero over intervals helps.
– Johan
Jan 5 '11 at 9:54
@Johan: I was mistaken, I missed the 'when restricted to" part of the theorem. In fact the characteristic function of rationals is a counterexample to what I had claimed. I have deleted that portion from the answer.
– Aryabhata
Jan 5 '11 at 19:18
add a comment |
Nice!! But you forgot to mention (I think) how you make $P$ out of $P_n$.
– Jonas Teuwen
Jan 4 '11 at 19:21
@Jonas: Thanks! edited.
– Aryabhata
Jan 4 '11 at 19:58
Nice argument. But I do not understand your use of Lusin's theorem in the alternative solution. How do you conclude that $f$ must be continuous at some point? That the positive set has positive measure is not enough for general functions of course but I do not see how the fact that the function integrates to zero over intervals helps.
– Johan
Jan 5 '11 at 9:54
@Johan: I was mistaken, I missed the 'when restricted to" part of the theorem. In fact the characteristic function of rationals is a counterexample to what I had claimed. I have deleted that portion from the answer.
– Aryabhata
Jan 5 '11 at 19:18
Nice!! But you forgot to mention (I think) how you make $P$ out of $P_n$.
– Jonas Teuwen
Jan 4 '11 at 19:21
Nice!! But you forgot to mention (I think) how you make $P$ out of $P_n$.
– Jonas Teuwen
Jan 4 '11 at 19:21
@Jonas: Thanks! edited.
– Aryabhata
Jan 4 '11 at 19:58
@Jonas: Thanks! edited.
– Aryabhata
Jan 4 '11 at 19:58
Nice argument. But I do not understand your use of Lusin's theorem in the alternative solution. How do you conclude that $f$ must be continuous at some point? That the positive set has positive measure is not enough for general functions of course but I do not see how the fact that the function integrates to zero over intervals helps.
– Johan
Jan 5 '11 at 9:54
Nice argument. But I do not understand your use of Lusin's theorem in the alternative solution. How do you conclude that $f$ must be continuous at some point? That the positive set has positive measure is not enough for general functions of course but I do not see how the fact that the function integrates to zero over intervals helps.
– Johan
Jan 5 '11 at 9:54
@Johan: I was mistaken, I missed the 'when restricted to" part of the theorem. In fact the characteristic function of rationals is a counterexample to what I had claimed. I have deleted that portion from the answer.
– Aryabhata
Jan 5 '11 at 19:18
@Johan: I was mistaken, I missed the 'when restricted to" part of the theorem. In fact the characteristic function of rationals is a counterexample to what I had claimed. I have deleted that portion from the answer.
– Aryabhata
Jan 5 '11 at 19:18
add a comment |
If $F(x)=int_0^x f(t) dt=0$ everywhere, then $F'(x)=0$ for all $x$. Since $f$ is locally integrable, $F'(x)=f(x)$ almost everywhere. Hence $f(x)=0$ almost everywhere.
This uses the fundamental theorem of calculus, which the OP said he wanted to avoid.
– Pete L. Clark
Jan 3 '11 at 16:33
You are right; I did not read closely. Since the OP is working with $L^2$, Lebesgue integration is unavoidable; I don't see the point of trying to avoid this basic theorem in the theoy.
– TCL
Jan 3 '11 at 16:39
3
The only point is that the fundamental theorem of calculus for Lebesgue integrals is treated quite late in the expositions I have seen, after one has proven a great deal of other properties of the integral. But the statement I am seeking to prove seems so simple and intuitive that there ought to be a simple proof.
– Johan
Jan 3 '11 at 22:55
add a comment |
If $F(x)=int_0^x f(t) dt=0$ everywhere, then $F'(x)=0$ for all $x$. Since $f$ is locally integrable, $F'(x)=f(x)$ almost everywhere. Hence $f(x)=0$ almost everywhere.
This uses the fundamental theorem of calculus, which the OP said he wanted to avoid.
– Pete L. Clark
Jan 3 '11 at 16:33
You are right; I did not read closely. Since the OP is working with $L^2$, Lebesgue integration is unavoidable; I don't see the point of trying to avoid this basic theorem in the theoy.
– TCL
Jan 3 '11 at 16:39
3
The only point is that the fundamental theorem of calculus for Lebesgue integrals is treated quite late in the expositions I have seen, after one has proven a great deal of other properties of the integral. But the statement I am seeking to prove seems so simple and intuitive that there ought to be a simple proof.
– Johan
Jan 3 '11 at 22:55
add a comment |
If $F(x)=int_0^x f(t) dt=0$ everywhere, then $F'(x)=0$ for all $x$. Since $f$ is locally integrable, $F'(x)=f(x)$ almost everywhere. Hence $f(x)=0$ almost everywhere.
If $F(x)=int_0^x f(t) dt=0$ everywhere, then $F'(x)=0$ for all $x$. Since $f$ is locally integrable, $F'(x)=f(x)$ almost everywhere. Hence $f(x)=0$ almost everywhere.
answered Jan 3 '11 at 16:28
TCL
9,11952058
9,11952058
This uses the fundamental theorem of calculus, which the OP said he wanted to avoid.
– Pete L. Clark
Jan 3 '11 at 16:33
You are right; I did not read closely. Since the OP is working with $L^2$, Lebesgue integration is unavoidable; I don't see the point of trying to avoid this basic theorem in the theoy.
– TCL
Jan 3 '11 at 16:39
3
The only point is that the fundamental theorem of calculus for Lebesgue integrals is treated quite late in the expositions I have seen, after one has proven a great deal of other properties of the integral. But the statement I am seeking to prove seems so simple and intuitive that there ought to be a simple proof.
– Johan
Jan 3 '11 at 22:55
add a comment |
This uses the fundamental theorem of calculus, which the OP said he wanted to avoid.
– Pete L. Clark
Jan 3 '11 at 16:33
You are right; I did not read closely. Since the OP is working with $L^2$, Lebesgue integration is unavoidable; I don't see the point of trying to avoid this basic theorem in the theoy.
– TCL
Jan 3 '11 at 16:39
3
The only point is that the fundamental theorem of calculus for Lebesgue integrals is treated quite late in the expositions I have seen, after one has proven a great deal of other properties of the integral. But the statement I am seeking to prove seems so simple and intuitive that there ought to be a simple proof.
– Johan
Jan 3 '11 at 22:55
This uses the fundamental theorem of calculus, which the OP said he wanted to avoid.
– Pete L. Clark
Jan 3 '11 at 16:33
This uses the fundamental theorem of calculus, which the OP said he wanted to avoid.
– Pete L. Clark
Jan 3 '11 at 16:33
You are right; I did not read closely. Since the OP is working with $L^2$, Lebesgue integration is unavoidable; I don't see the point of trying to avoid this basic theorem in the theoy.
– TCL
Jan 3 '11 at 16:39
You are right; I did not read closely. Since the OP is working with $L^2$, Lebesgue integration is unavoidable; I don't see the point of trying to avoid this basic theorem in the theoy.
– TCL
Jan 3 '11 at 16:39
3
3
The only point is that the fundamental theorem of calculus for Lebesgue integrals is treated quite late in the expositions I have seen, after one has proven a great deal of other properties of the integral. But the statement I am seeking to prove seems so simple and intuitive that there ought to be a simple proof.
– Johan
Jan 3 '11 at 22:55
The only point is that the fundamental theorem of calculus for Lebesgue integrals is treated quite late in the expositions I have seen, after one has proven a great deal of other properties of the integral. But the statement I am seeking to prove seems so simple and intuitive that there ought to be a simple proof.
– Johan
Jan 3 '11 at 22:55
add a comment |
Thanks for contributing an answer to Mathematics Stack Exchange!
- Please be sure to answer the question. Provide details and share your research!
But avoid …
- Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers.
- Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience.
Use MathJax to format equations. MathJax reference.
To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers.
Some of your past answers have not been well-received, and you're in danger of being blocked from answering.
Please pay close attention to the following guidance:
- Please be sure to answer the question. Provide details and share your research!
But avoid …
- Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers.
- Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience.
To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers.
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
StackExchange.ready(
function () {
StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fmath.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f16244%2fif-int-0x-f-dm-is-zero-everywhere-then-f-is-zero-almost-everywhere%23new-answer', 'question_page');
}
);
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown