In how many ways can the letters of ENGRAVER be arranged if vowels need to be separated?












2














In how many ways can the letters of ENGRAVER be arranged if vowels need to be separated?



There are $6$ spots the AEE can go into to get separated.



And there are $5$ ways to arrange the N,G,R,V,R $to$ $5!/2!$.



For the AEE way, do I just do $6P3$ or $3!/2!$?










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    2














    In how many ways can the letters of ENGRAVER be arranged if vowels need to be separated?



    There are $6$ spots the AEE can go into to get separated.



    And there are $5$ ways to arrange the N,G,R,V,R $to$ $5!/2!$.



    For the AEE way, do I just do $6P3$ or $3!/2!$?










    share|cite|improve this question



























      2












      2








      2







      In how many ways can the letters of ENGRAVER be arranged if vowels need to be separated?



      There are $6$ spots the AEE can go into to get separated.



      And there are $5$ ways to arrange the N,G,R,V,R $to$ $5!/2!$.



      For the AEE way, do I just do $6P3$ or $3!/2!$?










      share|cite|improve this question















      In how many ways can the letters of ENGRAVER be arranged if vowels need to be separated?



      There are $6$ spots the AEE can go into to get separated.



      And there are $5$ ways to arrange the N,G,R,V,R $to$ $5!/2!$.



      For the AEE way, do I just do $6P3$ or $3!/2!$?







      combinatorics permutations






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      edited Nov 28 at 20:45









      N. F. Taussig

      43.5k93355




      43.5k93355










      asked Nov 28 at 17:22









      Erikien

      494




      494






















          3 Answers
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          1














          Consider ENGRAVIS instead, so the consonants and vowels are distinct.



          Now you can place four slots between the consonants and one at either side:
          $$rm
          _ C_1 _ C_2 _ C_3 _ C_4 _ C_5 _
          $$

          This can be done in $5!$ ways.



          You have to choose three out of the six slots to fill in the vowels, which can be done in $binom{6}{3}$ ways. Once the choice is made, we can choose among $3!$ ways to fill in the vowels.



          Now we take into account that S is actually R and I is actually E, so we have counted each placement four times, precisely $2!cdot2!$.



          Hence the total number is
          $$
          frac{1}{2!,2!}cdot5!cdotbinom{6}{3}cdot3!
          $$






          share|cite|improve this answer





























            0














            ${6choose3}frac {5!}{2!}frac {3!}{2!}$



            The first factor is the arrangement of vowels and consonants. The second is the arrangement of consonants, and the 3rd is the arrangement of vowels.






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              0














              First, we arrange the five consonants, then we insert the vowels.



              Arranging the five consonants: Choose two of the five positions for the $R$s, which can be done in $binom{5}{2}$ ways, then arrange the remaining three distinct consonants in the remaining three positions, which can be done in $3!$ ways. Hence, the consonants can be arranged in
              $$binom{5}{2}3!$$
              distinguishable ways.



              As you can verify, this is equal to your answer
              $$frac{5!}{2!}$$
              for the number of distinguishable arrangements of the consonants.



              This creates six spaces, four between successive consonants and two at the ends of the row. For instance,
              $$square R square N square G square R square V square$$



              Inserting the vowels: To separate the three vowels, we must place them in three of these six spaces. Choose two of the six spaces for the two $E$s and one of the remaining four spaces for the $A$. This can be done in
              $$binom{6}{2}binom{4}{1}$$
              distinguishable ways.



              Total: Since these choices can be made independently, the number of distinguishable arrangements of the letters of the word $ENGRAVER$ in which no two vowels are adjacent is
              $$binom{5}{2}3! cdot binom{6}{2}binom{4}{1}$$



              Why are your proposed answers for the number of arrangements of the vowels incorrect?



              The quantity $P(6, 3)$ is incorrect since the two $E$s are indistinguishable. Notice that dividing $P(6, 3)$ by the $2!$ ways we could permute the $E$s within an arrangement without producing an arrangement distinguishable from the given arrangement yields
              $$frac{P(6, 3)}{2!} = binom{6}{2}binom{4}{1}$$
              The quantity $frac{3!}{2!}$ is incorrect because you have not accounted for the $binom{6}{3}$ ways you could place the two vowels. Notice that
              $$binom{6}{3} cdot frac{3!}{2!} = binom{6}{2}binom{4}{1}$$






              share|cite|improve this answer























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                3 Answers
                3






                active

                oldest

                votes








                3 Answers
                3






                active

                oldest

                votes









                active

                oldest

                votes






                active

                oldest

                votes









                1














                Consider ENGRAVIS instead, so the consonants and vowels are distinct.



                Now you can place four slots between the consonants and one at either side:
                $$rm
                _ C_1 _ C_2 _ C_3 _ C_4 _ C_5 _
                $$

                This can be done in $5!$ ways.



                You have to choose three out of the six slots to fill in the vowels, which can be done in $binom{6}{3}$ ways. Once the choice is made, we can choose among $3!$ ways to fill in the vowels.



                Now we take into account that S is actually R and I is actually E, so we have counted each placement four times, precisely $2!cdot2!$.



                Hence the total number is
                $$
                frac{1}{2!,2!}cdot5!cdotbinom{6}{3}cdot3!
                $$






                share|cite|improve this answer


























                  1














                  Consider ENGRAVIS instead, so the consonants and vowels are distinct.



                  Now you can place four slots between the consonants and one at either side:
                  $$rm
                  _ C_1 _ C_2 _ C_3 _ C_4 _ C_5 _
                  $$

                  This can be done in $5!$ ways.



                  You have to choose three out of the six slots to fill in the vowels, which can be done in $binom{6}{3}$ ways. Once the choice is made, we can choose among $3!$ ways to fill in the vowels.



                  Now we take into account that S is actually R and I is actually E, so we have counted each placement four times, precisely $2!cdot2!$.



                  Hence the total number is
                  $$
                  frac{1}{2!,2!}cdot5!cdotbinom{6}{3}cdot3!
                  $$






                  share|cite|improve this answer
























                    1












                    1








                    1






                    Consider ENGRAVIS instead, so the consonants and vowels are distinct.



                    Now you can place four slots between the consonants and one at either side:
                    $$rm
                    _ C_1 _ C_2 _ C_3 _ C_4 _ C_5 _
                    $$

                    This can be done in $5!$ ways.



                    You have to choose three out of the six slots to fill in the vowels, which can be done in $binom{6}{3}$ ways. Once the choice is made, we can choose among $3!$ ways to fill in the vowels.



                    Now we take into account that S is actually R and I is actually E, so we have counted each placement four times, precisely $2!cdot2!$.



                    Hence the total number is
                    $$
                    frac{1}{2!,2!}cdot5!cdotbinom{6}{3}cdot3!
                    $$






                    share|cite|improve this answer












                    Consider ENGRAVIS instead, so the consonants and vowels are distinct.



                    Now you can place four slots between the consonants and one at either side:
                    $$rm
                    _ C_1 _ C_2 _ C_3 _ C_4 _ C_5 _
                    $$

                    This can be done in $5!$ ways.



                    You have to choose three out of the six slots to fill in the vowels, which can be done in $binom{6}{3}$ ways. Once the choice is made, we can choose among $3!$ ways to fill in the vowels.



                    Now we take into account that S is actually R and I is actually E, so we have counted each placement four times, precisely $2!cdot2!$.



                    Hence the total number is
                    $$
                    frac{1}{2!,2!}cdot5!cdotbinom{6}{3}cdot3!
                    $$







                    share|cite|improve this answer












                    share|cite|improve this answer



                    share|cite|improve this answer










                    answered Nov 28 at 21:08









                    egreg

                    177k1484198




                    177k1484198























                        0














                        ${6choose3}frac {5!}{2!}frac {3!}{2!}$



                        The first factor is the arrangement of vowels and consonants. The second is the arrangement of consonants, and the 3rd is the arrangement of vowels.






                        share|cite|improve this answer




























                          0














                          ${6choose3}frac {5!}{2!}frac {3!}{2!}$



                          The first factor is the arrangement of vowels and consonants. The second is the arrangement of consonants, and the 3rd is the arrangement of vowels.






                          share|cite|improve this answer


























                            0












                            0








                            0






                            ${6choose3}frac {5!}{2!}frac {3!}{2!}$



                            The first factor is the arrangement of vowels and consonants. The second is the arrangement of consonants, and the 3rd is the arrangement of vowels.






                            share|cite|improve this answer














                            ${6choose3}frac {5!}{2!}frac {3!}{2!}$



                            The first factor is the arrangement of vowels and consonants. The second is the arrangement of consonants, and the 3rd is the arrangement of vowels.







                            share|cite|improve this answer














                            share|cite|improve this answer



                            share|cite|improve this answer








                            edited Nov 28 at 21:15

























                            answered Nov 28 at 17:31









                            Doug M

                            43.9k31854




                            43.9k31854























                                0














                                First, we arrange the five consonants, then we insert the vowels.



                                Arranging the five consonants: Choose two of the five positions for the $R$s, which can be done in $binom{5}{2}$ ways, then arrange the remaining three distinct consonants in the remaining three positions, which can be done in $3!$ ways. Hence, the consonants can be arranged in
                                $$binom{5}{2}3!$$
                                distinguishable ways.



                                As you can verify, this is equal to your answer
                                $$frac{5!}{2!}$$
                                for the number of distinguishable arrangements of the consonants.



                                This creates six spaces, four between successive consonants and two at the ends of the row. For instance,
                                $$square R square N square G square R square V square$$



                                Inserting the vowels: To separate the three vowels, we must place them in three of these six spaces. Choose two of the six spaces for the two $E$s and one of the remaining four spaces for the $A$. This can be done in
                                $$binom{6}{2}binom{4}{1}$$
                                distinguishable ways.



                                Total: Since these choices can be made independently, the number of distinguishable arrangements of the letters of the word $ENGRAVER$ in which no two vowels are adjacent is
                                $$binom{5}{2}3! cdot binom{6}{2}binom{4}{1}$$



                                Why are your proposed answers for the number of arrangements of the vowels incorrect?



                                The quantity $P(6, 3)$ is incorrect since the two $E$s are indistinguishable. Notice that dividing $P(6, 3)$ by the $2!$ ways we could permute the $E$s within an arrangement without producing an arrangement distinguishable from the given arrangement yields
                                $$frac{P(6, 3)}{2!} = binom{6}{2}binom{4}{1}$$
                                The quantity $frac{3!}{2!}$ is incorrect because you have not accounted for the $binom{6}{3}$ ways you could place the two vowels. Notice that
                                $$binom{6}{3} cdot frac{3!}{2!} = binom{6}{2}binom{4}{1}$$






                                share|cite|improve this answer




























                                  0














                                  First, we arrange the five consonants, then we insert the vowels.



                                  Arranging the five consonants: Choose two of the five positions for the $R$s, which can be done in $binom{5}{2}$ ways, then arrange the remaining three distinct consonants in the remaining three positions, which can be done in $3!$ ways. Hence, the consonants can be arranged in
                                  $$binom{5}{2}3!$$
                                  distinguishable ways.



                                  As you can verify, this is equal to your answer
                                  $$frac{5!}{2!}$$
                                  for the number of distinguishable arrangements of the consonants.



                                  This creates six spaces, four between successive consonants and two at the ends of the row. For instance,
                                  $$square R square N square G square R square V square$$



                                  Inserting the vowels: To separate the three vowels, we must place them in three of these six spaces. Choose two of the six spaces for the two $E$s and one of the remaining four spaces for the $A$. This can be done in
                                  $$binom{6}{2}binom{4}{1}$$
                                  distinguishable ways.



                                  Total: Since these choices can be made independently, the number of distinguishable arrangements of the letters of the word $ENGRAVER$ in which no two vowels are adjacent is
                                  $$binom{5}{2}3! cdot binom{6}{2}binom{4}{1}$$



                                  Why are your proposed answers for the number of arrangements of the vowels incorrect?



                                  The quantity $P(6, 3)$ is incorrect since the two $E$s are indistinguishable. Notice that dividing $P(6, 3)$ by the $2!$ ways we could permute the $E$s within an arrangement without producing an arrangement distinguishable from the given arrangement yields
                                  $$frac{P(6, 3)}{2!} = binom{6}{2}binom{4}{1}$$
                                  The quantity $frac{3!}{2!}$ is incorrect because you have not accounted for the $binom{6}{3}$ ways you could place the two vowels. Notice that
                                  $$binom{6}{3} cdot frac{3!}{2!} = binom{6}{2}binom{4}{1}$$






                                  share|cite|improve this answer


























                                    0












                                    0








                                    0






                                    First, we arrange the five consonants, then we insert the vowels.



                                    Arranging the five consonants: Choose two of the five positions for the $R$s, which can be done in $binom{5}{2}$ ways, then arrange the remaining three distinct consonants in the remaining three positions, which can be done in $3!$ ways. Hence, the consonants can be arranged in
                                    $$binom{5}{2}3!$$
                                    distinguishable ways.



                                    As you can verify, this is equal to your answer
                                    $$frac{5!}{2!}$$
                                    for the number of distinguishable arrangements of the consonants.



                                    This creates six spaces, four between successive consonants and two at the ends of the row. For instance,
                                    $$square R square N square G square R square V square$$



                                    Inserting the vowels: To separate the three vowels, we must place them in three of these six spaces. Choose two of the six spaces for the two $E$s and one of the remaining four spaces for the $A$. This can be done in
                                    $$binom{6}{2}binom{4}{1}$$
                                    distinguishable ways.



                                    Total: Since these choices can be made independently, the number of distinguishable arrangements of the letters of the word $ENGRAVER$ in which no two vowels are adjacent is
                                    $$binom{5}{2}3! cdot binom{6}{2}binom{4}{1}$$



                                    Why are your proposed answers for the number of arrangements of the vowels incorrect?



                                    The quantity $P(6, 3)$ is incorrect since the two $E$s are indistinguishable. Notice that dividing $P(6, 3)$ by the $2!$ ways we could permute the $E$s within an arrangement without producing an arrangement distinguishable from the given arrangement yields
                                    $$frac{P(6, 3)}{2!} = binom{6}{2}binom{4}{1}$$
                                    The quantity $frac{3!}{2!}$ is incorrect because you have not accounted for the $binom{6}{3}$ ways you could place the two vowels. Notice that
                                    $$binom{6}{3} cdot frac{3!}{2!} = binom{6}{2}binom{4}{1}$$






                                    share|cite|improve this answer














                                    First, we arrange the five consonants, then we insert the vowels.



                                    Arranging the five consonants: Choose two of the five positions for the $R$s, which can be done in $binom{5}{2}$ ways, then arrange the remaining three distinct consonants in the remaining three positions, which can be done in $3!$ ways. Hence, the consonants can be arranged in
                                    $$binom{5}{2}3!$$
                                    distinguishable ways.



                                    As you can verify, this is equal to your answer
                                    $$frac{5!}{2!}$$
                                    for the number of distinguishable arrangements of the consonants.



                                    This creates six spaces, four between successive consonants and two at the ends of the row. For instance,
                                    $$square R square N square G square R square V square$$



                                    Inserting the vowels: To separate the three vowels, we must place them in three of these six spaces. Choose two of the six spaces for the two $E$s and one of the remaining four spaces for the $A$. This can be done in
                                    $$binom{6}{2}binom{4}{1}$$
                                    distinguishable ways.



                                    Total: Since these choices can be made independently, the number of distinguishable arrangements of the letters of the word $ENGRAVER$ in which no two vowels are adjacent is
                                    $$binom{5}{2}3! cdot binom{6}{2}binom{4}{1}$$



                                    Why are your proposed answers for the number of arrangements of the vowels incorrect?



                                    The quantity $P(6, 3)$ is incorrect since the two $E$s are indistinguishable. Notice that dividing $P(6, 3)$ by the $2!$ ways we could permute the $E$s within an arrangement without producing an arrangement distinguishable from the given arrangement yields
                                    $$frac{P(6, 3)}{2!} = binom{6}{2}binom{4}{1}$$
                                    The quantity $frac{3!}{2!}$ is incorrect because you have not accounted for the $binom{6}{3}$ ways you could place the two vowels. Notice that
                                    $$binom{6}{3} cdot frac{3!}{2!} = binom{6}{2}binom{4}{1}$$







                                    share|cite|improve this answer














                                    share|cite|improve this answer



                                    share|cite|improve this answer








                                    edited Nov 28 at 22:22

























                                    answered Nov 28 at 20:07









                                    N. F. Taussig

                                    43.5k93355




                                    43.5k93355






























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