how to prove supremum and infimum












0












$begingroup$


I started to learn this subject, and I have understood what It's mean, but I cant find out how to find and to prove it.
for example :



let $X$ be the set of all rational number in form $m/n$ so $ 0<m<n $
prove that $inf X = 0$ and $sup X =1$, and prove that $max X$ and $min X$ does not exist.



how can I solve this?
can you please explain it step by step so I would understand










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  • $begingroup$
    $sup X = 0$? 1/2 sits in $X$.
    $endgroup$
    – Gibbs
    Nov 26 '17 at 16:48
















0












$begingroup$


I started to learn this subject, and I have understood what It's mean, but I cant find out how to find and to prove it.
for example :



let $X$ be the set of all rational number in form $m/n$ so $ 0<m<n $
prove that $inf X = 0$ and $sup X =1$, and prove that $max X$ and $min X$ does not exist.



how can I solve this?
can you please explain it step by step so I would understand










share|cite|improve this question











$endgroup$












  • $begingroup$
    $sup X = 0$? 1/2 sits in $X$.
    $endgroup$
    – Gibbs
    Nov 26 '17 at 16:48














0












0








0





$begingroup$


I started to learn this subject, and I have understood what It's mean, but I cant find out how to find and to prove it.
for example :



let $X$ be the set of all rational number in form $m/n$ so $ 0<m<n $
prove that $inf X = 0$ and $sup X =1$, and prove that $max X$ and $min X$ does not exist.



how can I solve this?
can you please explain it step by step so I would understand










share|cite|improve this question











$endgroup$




I started to learn this subject, and I have understood what It's mean, but I cant find out how to find and to prove it.
for example :



let $X$ be the set of all rational number in form $m/n$ so $ 0<m<n $
prove that $inf X = 0$ and $sup X =1$, and prove that $max X$ and $min X$ does not exist.



how can I solve this?
can you please explain it step by step so I would understand







supremum-and-infimum






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share|cite|improve this question








edited Nov 26 '17 at 16:53









AJY

4,14521128




4,14521128










asked Nov 26 '17 at 16:46









Moran TailuMoran Tailu

92




92












  • $begingroup$
    $sup X = 0$? 1/2 sits in $X$.
    $endgroup$
    – Gibbs
    Nov 26 '17 at 16:48


















  • $begingroup$
    $sup X = 0$? 1/2 sits in $X$.
    $endgroup$
    – Gibbs
    Nov 26 '17 at 16:48
















$begingroup$
$sup X = 0$? 1/2 sits in $X$.
$endgroup$
– Gibbs
Nov 26 '17 at 16:48




$begingroup$
$sup X = 0$? 1/2 sits in $X$.
$endgroup$
– Gibbs
Nov 26 '17 at 16:48










3 Answers
3






active

oldest

votes


















0












$begingroup$

Here the supremum case: For any positive integers $m,n$ with $m<n$, then $m/n<1$, so we get immediately $sup Xleq 1$. Now we claim that $sup X=1$. Given $epsilon>0$, by Archimedean property, we can find some positive integer $N$ such that $1/N<epsilon$, then $(N-1)/Nin X$ and satisfies $(N-1)/N=1-1/N>1-epsilon$, so $sup X>1-epsilon$. Since this is true for all $epsilon>0$, then $sup Xgeq 1$, so we get $sup X=1$.



Similar argument using Archimedian property will show that $inf X=0$.






share|cite|improve this answer









$endgroup$





















    0












    $begingroup$

    So your set is
    $$X = bigg{frac{n}{m}: n, m in mathbb{N} mbox{ and } 0 < m < nbigg}.$$
    Claim: $inf X = 0$ and $sup X = 1$. You can easily see that both of them do not sit in $X$ as $m$ cannot be $0$ and $m$ cannot be equal to $n$. So in case we prove our claim, we can say that $0$ and $1$ are not minimum and maximum of $X$. This is because maxima and minima are required to be in your set in general.
    To check that $0$ is the infimum you can check two properties: that $0$ is smaller than every element of your set, and that if you pick $varepsilon > 0$ you can always find an element of your set between $0$ and $0+varepsilon$.



    Clearly $0 < frac{m}{n}$ as $m,n > 0$. So let us find $frac{m}{n} < varepsilon$. Let us fix $l in mathbb{N}, l > 1$ large enough so that $lvarepsilon > 1$. Such an $l$ exists by the Archimedean property of the real numbers. So $frac{1}{l} < varepsilon$. This proves your first claim, $inf X = 0$.



    You can do a similar proof for $sup X = 1$. It is enough to prove that $1$ is greater than all the elements in $X$, and that once you fix $varepsilon > 0$ you can always find an element of $X$ between $1-varepsilon$ and $1$.






    share|cite|improve this answer









    $endgroup$





















      0












      $begingroup$

      First, we show the infimum and supernumerary are as you say. Clearly $0$ is a lower bound, and $1$ an upper bound, but we must show they are, respectively, the greatest lower bound and least upper bound. I claim that (i) if $a > 0$ is a rational number, then there exists $x in X$ such that $x < a$, and (ii) if $b < 1$ is a rational number, then there exists $y in X$ such that $y > b$.



      For (i), let $a = m / n$, where $0 < m < n$. We wanna find a number between $0$ and $a$, so we can make the easy choice and pick the midpoint between them, namely $x = frac{m}{2n}$. Thus if $a$ was



      For (ii), let $b = p / q, 0 < p < q$, and then let $ y = frac{2p + 1}{2 q}$. Again, we choose a point between $b$ and $1$ to show $b$ wasn't an upper bound.



      So now we've determined that $inf X = 0, sup X = 1$. But neither $0$ nor $1$ is contained in $X$, so they can't be the minimum or maximum, respectively.






      share|cite|improve this answer









      $endgroup$













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        3 Answers
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        3 Answers
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        0












        $begingroup$

        Here the supremum case: For any positive integers $m,n$ with $m<n$, then $m/n<1$, so we get immediately $sup Xleq 1$. Now we claim that $sup X=1$. Given $epsilon>0$, by Archimedean property, we can find some positive integer $N$ such that $1/N<epsilon$, then $(N-1)/Nin X$ and satisfies $(N-1)/N=1-1/N>1-epsilon$, so $sup X>1-epsilon$. Since this is true for all $epsilon>0$, then $sup Xgeq 1$, so we get $sup X=1$.



        Similar argument using Archimedian property will show that $inf X=0$.






        share|cite|improve this answer









        $endgroup$


















          0












          $begingroup$

          Here the supremum case: For any positive integers $m,n$ with $m<n$, then $m/n<1$, so we get immediately $sup Xleq 1$. Now we claim that $sup X=1$. Given $epsilon>0$, by Archimedean property, we can find some positive integer $N$ such that $1/N<epsilon$, then $(N-1)/Nin X$ and satisfies $(N-1)/N=1-1/N>1-epsilon$, so $sup X>1-epsilon$. Since this is true for all $epsilon>0$, then $sup Xgeq 1$, so we get $sup X=1$.



          Similar argument using Archimedian property will show that $inf X=0$.






          share|cite|improve this answer









          $endgroup$
















            0












            0








            0





            $begingroup$

            Here the supremum case: For any positive integers $m,n$ with $m<n$, then $m/n<1$, so we get immediately $sup Xleq 1$. Now we claim that $sup X=1$. Given $epsilon>0$, by Archimedean property, we can find some positive integer $N$ such that $1/N<epsilon$, then $(N-1)/Nin X$ and satisfies $(N-1)/N=1-1/N>1-epsilon$, so $sup X>1-epsilon$. Since this is true for all $epsilon>0$, then $sup Xgeq 1$, so we get $sup X=1$.



            Similar argument using Archimedian property will show that $inf X=0$.






            share|cite|improve this answer









            $endgroup$



            Here the supremum case: For any positive integers $m,n$ with $m<n$, then $m/n<1$, so we get immediately $sup Xleq 1$. Now we claim that $sup X=1$. Given $epsilon>0$, by Archimedean property, we can find some positive integer $N$ such that $1/N<epsilon$, then $(N-1)/Nin X$ and satisfies $(N-1)/N=1-1/N>1-epsilon$, so $sup X>1-epsilon$. Since this is true for all $epsilon>0$, then $sup Xgeq 1$, so we get $sup X=1$.



            Similar argument using Archimedian property will show that $inf X=0$.







            share|cite|improve this answer












            share|cite|improve this answer



            share|cite|improve this answer










            answered Nov 26 '17 at 17:05









            user284331user284331

            35.3k31646




            35.3k31646























                0












                $begingroup$

                So your set is
                $$X = bigg{frac{n}{m}: n, m in mathbb{N} mbox{ and } 0 < m < nbigg}.$$
                Claim: $inf X = 0$ and $sup X = 1$. You can easily see that both of them do not sit in $X$ as $m$ cannot be $0$ and $m$ cannot be equal to $n$. So in case we prove our claim, we can say that $0$ and $1$ are not minimum and maximum of $X$. This is because maxima and minima are required to be in your set in general.
                To check that $0$ is the infimum you can check two properties: that $0$ is smaller than every element of your set, and that if you pick $varepsilon > 0$ you can always find an element of your set between $0$ and $0+varepsilon$.



                Clearly $0 < frac{m}{n}$ as $m,n > 0$. So let us find $frac{m}{n} < varepsilon$. Let us fix $l in mathbb{N}, l > 1$ large enough so that $lvarepsilon > 1$. Such an $l$ exists by the Archimedean property of the real numbers. So $frac{1}{l} < varepsilon$. This proves your first claim, $inf X = 0$.



                You can do a similar proof for $sup X = 1$. It is enough to prove that $1$ is greater than all the elements in $X$, and that once you fix $varepsilon > 0$ you can always find an element of $X$ between $1-varepsilon$ and $1$.






                share|cite|improve this answer









                $endgroup$


















                  0












                  $begingroup$

                  So your set is
                  $$X = bigg{frac{n}{m}: n, m in mathbb{N} mbox{ and } 0 < m < nbigg}.$$
                  Claim: $inf X = 0$ and $sup X = 1$. You can easily see that both of them do not sit in $X$ as $m$ cannot be $0$ and $m$ cannot be equal to $n$. So in case we prove our claim, we can say that $0$ and $1$ are not minimum and maximum of $X$. This is because maxima and minima are required to be in your set in general.
                  To check that $0$ is the infimum you can check two properties: that $0$ is smaller than every element of your set, and that if you pick $varepsilon > 0$ you can always find an element of your set between $0$ and $0+varepsilon$.



                  Clearly $0 < frac{m}{n}$ as $m,n > 0$. So let us find $frac{m}{n} < varepsilon$. Let us fix $l in mathbb{N}, l > 1$ large enough so that $lvarepsilon > 1$. Such an $l$ exists by the Archimedean property of the real numbers. So $frac{1}{l} < varepsilon$. This proves your first claim, $inf X = 0$.



                  You can do a similar proof for $sup X = 1$. It is enough to prove that $1$ is greater than all the elements in $X$, and that once you fix $varepsilon > 0$ you can always find an element of $X$ between $1-varepsilon$ and $1$.






                  share|cite|improve this answer









                  $endgroup$
















                    0












                    0








                    0





                    $begingroup$

                    So your set is
                    $$X = bigg{frac{n}{m}: n, m in mathbb{N} mbox{ and } 0 < m < nbigg}.$$
                    Claim: $inf X = 0$ and $sup X = 1$. You can easily see that both of them do not sit in $X$ as $m$ cannot be $0$ and $m$ cannot be equal to $n$. So in case we prove our claim, we can say that $0$ and $1$ are not minimum and maximum of $X$. This is because maxima and minima are required to be in your set in general.
                    To check that $0$ is the infimum you can check two properties: that $0$ is smaller than every element of your set, and that if you pick $varepsilon > 0$ you can always find an element of your set between $0$ and $0+varepsilon$.



                    Clearly $0 < frac{m}{n}$ as $m,n > 0$. So let us find $frac{m}{n} < varepsilon$. Let us fix $l in mathbb{N}, l > 1$ large enough so that $lvarepsilon > 1$. Such an $l$ exists by the Archimedean property of the real numbers. So $frac{1}{l} < varepsilon$. This proves your first claim, $inf X = 0$.



                    You can do a similar proof for $sup X = 1$. It is enough to prove that $1$ is greater than all the elements in $X$, and that once you fix $varepsilon > 0$ you can always find an element of $X$ between $1-varepsilon$ and $1$.






                    share|cite|improve this answer









                    $endgroup$



                    So your set is
                    $$X = bigg{frac{n}{m}: n, m in mathbb{N} mbox{ and } 0 < m < nbigg}.$$
                    Claim: $inf X = 0$ and $sup X = 1$. You can easily see that both of them do not sit in $X$ as $m$ cannot be $0$ and $m$ cannot be equal to $n$. So in case we prove our claim, we can say that $0$ and $1$ are not minimum and maximum of $X$. This is because maxima and minima are required to be in your set in general.
                    To check that $0$ is the infimum you can check two properties: that $0$ is smaller than every element of your set, and that if you pick $varepsilon > 0$ you can always find an element of your set between $0$ and $0+varepsilon$.



                    Clearly $0 < frac{m}{n}$ as $m,n > 0$. So let us find $frac{m}{n} < varepsilon$. Let us fix $l in mathbb{N}, l > 1$ large enough so that $lvarepsilon > 1$. Such an $l$ exists by the Archimedean property of the real numbers. So $frac{1}{l} < varepsilon$. This proves your first claim, $inf X = 0$.



                    You can do a similar proof for $sup X = 1$. It is enough to prove that $1$ is greater than all the elements in $X$, and that once you fix $varepsilon > 0$ you can always find an element of $X$ between $1-varepsilon$ and $1$.







                    share|cite|improve this answer












                    share|cite|improve this answer



                    share|cite|improve this answer










                    answered Nov 26 '17 at 17:07









                    GibbsGibbs

                    4,9123826




                    4,9123826























                        0












                        $begingroup$

                        First, we show the infimum and supernumerary are as you say. Clearly $0$ is a lower bound, and $1$ an upper bound, but we must show they are, respectively, the greatest lower bound and least upper bound. I claim that (i) if $a > 0$ is a rational number, then there exists $x in X$ such that $x < a$, and (ii) if $b < 1$ is a rational number, then there exists $y in X$ such that $y > b$.



                        For (i), let $a = m / n$, where $0 < m < n$. We wanna find a number between $0$ and $a$, so we can make the easy choice and pick the midpoint between them, namely $x = frac{m}{2n}$. Thus if $a$ was



                        For (ii), let $b = p / q, 0 < p < q$, and then let $ y = frac{2p + 1}{2 q}$. Again, we choose a point between $b$ and $1$ to show $b$ wasn't an upper bound.



                        So now we've determined that $inf X = 0, sup X = 1$. But neither $0$ nor $1$ is contained in $X$, so they can't be the minimum or maximum, respectively.






                        share|cite|improve this answer









                        $endgroup$


















                          0












                          $begingroup$

                          First, we show the infimum and supernumerary are as you say. Clearly $0$ is a lower bound, and $1$ an upper bound, but we must show they are, respectively, the greatest lower bound and least upper bound. I claim that (i) if $a > 0$ is a rational number, then there exists $x in X$ such that $x < a$, and (ii) if $b < 1$ is a rational number, then there exists $y in X$ such that $y > b$.



                          For (i), let $a = m / n$, where $0 < m < n$. We wanna find a number between $0$ and $a$, so we can make the easy choice and pick the midpoint between them, namely $x = frac{m}{2n}$. Thus if $a$ was



                          For (ii), let $b = p / q, 0 < p < q$, and then let $ y = frac{2p + 1}{2 q}$. Again, we choose a point between $b$ and $1$ to show $b$ wasn't an upper bound.



                          So now we've determined that $inf X = 0, sup X = 1$. But neither $0$ nor $1$ is contained in $X$, so they can't be the minimum or maximum, respectively.






                          share|cite|improve this answer









                          $endgroup$
















                            0












                            0








                            0





                            $begingroup$

                            First, we show the infimum and supernumerary are as you say. Clearly $0$ is a lower bound, and $1$ an upper bound, but we must show they are, respectively, the greatest lower bound and least upper bound. I claim that (i) if $a > 0$ is a rational number, then there exists $x in X$ such that $x < a$, and (ii) if $b < 1$ is a rational number, then there exists $y in X$ such that $y > b$.



                            For (i), let $a = m / n$, where $0 < m < n$. We wanna find a number between $0$ and $a$, so we can make the easy choice and pick the midpoint between them, namely $x = frac{m}{2n}$. Thus if $a$ was



                            For (ii), let $b = p / q, 0 < p < q$, and then let $ y = frac{2p + 1}{2 q}$. Again, we choose a point between $b$ and $1$ to show $b$ wasn't an upper bound.



                            So now we've determined that $inf X = 0, sup X = 1$. But neither $0$ nor $1$ is contained in $X$, so they can't be the minimum or maximum, respectively.






                            share|cite|improve this answer









                            $endgroup$



                            First, we show the infimum and supernumerary are as you say. Clearly $0$ is a lower bound, and $1$ an upper bound, but we must show they are, respectively, the greatest lower bound and least upper bound. I claim that (i) if $a > 0$ is a rational number, then there exists $x in X$ such that $x < a$, and (ii) if $b < 1$ is a rational number, then there exists $y in X$ such that $y > b$.



                            For (i), let $a = m / n$, where $0 < m < n$. We wanna find a number between $0$ and $a$, so we can make the easy choice and pick the midpoint between them, namely $x = frac{m}{2n}$. Thus if $a$ was



                            For (ii), let $b = p / q, 0 < p < q$, and then let $ y = frac{2p + 1}{2 q}$. Again, we choose a point between $b$ and $1$ to show $b$ wasn't an upper bound.



                            So now we've determined that $inf X = 0, sup X = 1$. But neither $0$ nor $1$ is contained in $X$, so they can't be the minimum or maximum, respectively.







                            share|cite|improve this answer












                            share|cite|improve this answer



                            share|cite|improve this answer










                            answered Nov 27 '17 at 3:19









                            AJYAJY

                            4,14521128




                            4,14521128






























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