How can story points be “non linear” in relative size












9















I've read in several places that story points are not necessarily linear.



i.e., an "8 point" task is not the same as two 4 point tasks and so on.



I totally get the argument about these being an indication of complexity rather than time taken.



But if they're not a linear scale, then how can you do arithmetic on them? If an 8 story point takes, say, 3 times longer than 2 x 4 story points, then how do burndown charts work from an arithmetic point of view?



If our velocity is, say, 30 a sprint then this means we could do 30 x 1 story point features. But these might be, 30 half an hour jobs. Equally if it was 2 x 15 story point features, these are probably monster tasks which seems equally unlikely.



Perhaps I am wrong in my assertion that they are non-linear?



Or can anyone explain this to me?



Thanks!










share|improve this question




















  • 1





    I would recommend that you read Mike Cohn's book on User Stories: mountaingoatsoftware.com/books/user-stories-applied this will give you a good understanding of what user stories and story points represent.

    – user32613
    Dec 10 '18 at 11:30













  • You mean «"8 point" story».

    – tiagoperes
    Dec 10 '18 at 19:20
















9















I've read in several places that story points are not necessarily linear.



i.e., an "8 point" task is not the same as two 4 point tasks and so on.



I totally get the argument about these being an indication of complexity rather than time taken.



But if they're not a linear scale, then how can you do arithmetic on them? If an 8 story point takes, say, 3 times longer than 2 x 4 story points, then how do burndown charts work from an arithmetic point of view?



If our velocity is, say, 30 a sprint then this means we could do 30 x 1 story point features. But these might be, 30 half an hour jobs. Equally if it was 2 x 15 story point features, these are probably monster tasks which seems equally unlikely.



Perhaps I am wrong in my assertion that they are non-linear?



Or can anyone explain this to me?



Thanks!










share|improve this question




















  • 1





    I would recommend that you read Mike Cohn's book on User Stories: mountaingoatsoftware.com/books/user-stories-applied this will give you a good understanding of what user stories and story points represent.

    – user32613
    Dec 10 '18 at 11:30













  • You mean «"8 point" story».

    – tiagoperes
    Dec 10 '18 at 19:20














9












9








9


1






I've read in several places that story points are not necessarily linear.



i.e., an "8 point" task is not the same as two 4 point tasks and so on.



I totally get the argument about these being an indication of complexity rather than time taken.



But if they're not a linear scale, then how can you do arithmetic on them? If an 8 story point takes, say, 3 times longer than 2 x 4 story points, then how do burndown charts work from an arithmetic point of view?



If our velocity is, say, 30 a sprint then this means we could do 30 x 1 story point features. But these might be, 30 half an hour jobs. Equally if it was 2 x 15 story point features, these are probably monster tasks which seems equally unlikely.



Perhaps I am wrong in my assertion that they are non-linear?



Or can anyone explain this to me?



Thanks!










share|improve this question
















I've read in several places that story points are not necessarily linear.



i.e., an "8 point" task is not the same as two 4 point tasks and so on.



I totally get the argument about these being an indication of complexity rather than time taken.



But if they're not a linear scale, then how can you do arithmetic on them? If an 8 story point takes, say, 3 times longer than 2 x 4 story points, then how do burndown charts work from an arithmetic point of view?



If our velocity is, say, 30 a sprint then this means we could do 30 x 1 story point features. But these might be, 30 half an hour jobs. Equally if it was 2 x 15 story point features, these are probably monster tasks which seems equally unlikely.



Perhaps I am wrong in my assertion that they are non-linear?



Or can anyone explain this to me?



Thanks!







scrum agile sprint story-points






share|improve this question















share|improve this question













share|improve this question




share|improve this question








edited Dec 10 '18 at 14:06









tiagoperes

472418




472418










asked Dec 10 '18 at 9:28









JohnJohn

1463




1463








  • 1





    I would recommend that you read Mike Cohn's book on User Stories: mountaingoatsoftware.com/books/user-stories-applied this will give you a good understanding of what user stories and story points represent.

    – user32613
    Dec 10 '18 at 11:30













  • You mean «"8 point" story».

    – tiagoperes
    Dec 10 '18 at 19:20














  • 1





    I would recommend that you read Mike Cohn's book on User Stories: mountaingoatsoftware.com/books/user-stories-applied this will give you a good understanding of what user stories and story points represent.

    – user32613
    Dec 10 '18 at 11:30













  • You mean «"8 point" story».

    – tiagoperes
    Dec 10 '18 at 19:20








1




1





I would recommend that you read Mike Cohn's book on User Stories: mountaingoatsoftware.com/books/user-stories-applied this will give you a good understanding of what user stories and story points represent.

– user32613
Dec 10 '18 at 11:30







I would recommend that you read Mike Cohn's book on User Stories: mountaingoatsoftware.com/books/user-stories-applied this will give you a good understanding of what user stories and story points represent.

– user32613
Dec 10 '18 at 11:30















You mean «"8 point" story».

– tiagoperes
Dec 10 '18 at 19:20





You mean «"8 point" story».

– tiagoperes
Dec 10 '18 at 19:20










3 Answers
3






active

oldest

votes


















11














Perhaps a more accurate way to put it would be that story point estimates are imprecise. If you have a 5 and a 3, that may or may not be the same size as an 8.



To make this less confusing, let's start with a non-numeric scale like T-Shirt sizes. XS, S, M, L, XL and so on. We can agree pretty easily that a small and a medium t-shirt do not get you a large t-shirt. Yet, a large is bigger than a medium and a lot bigger than a small, and generally smaller than an XL. Not always, of course. We all know that one company that we have to buy a different size in. User stories are the same way. It's possible I have a M that is actually bigger than some L, but this is the exception, so I can normally assume that a L is one step bigger than an M.



OK, now let's do this: XS-1, S-3, M-5, L-8, XL-13. Now, all of the same rules apply. It is possible in some edge cases that a 5 is actually bigger than some 8, but generally speaking an 8 is one step bigger than a 5.



Then there is the topic of velocity. Because the relationship between the sizes is generally consistent, we can add the sizes together and if we work at a consistent pace we will have a fairly consistent total. It won't be perfect - maybe 45 - 52, but that is consistent enough to be useful for planning. If you have 35 points in the sprint, it is probably too little in this case and 60 is almost certainly too much. This is also why most forecasts are a range, not a precise measurement.






share|improve this answer



















  • 1





    OK. I think I understand. But in our mental-models we should be aiming for linear scale right? I mean, we know things are imprecise, but in an ideal world they would be perfectly linear? It would be wrong for a team to say "We believe that an 8 is 3 times larger than a 5" for example?

    – John
    Dec 10 '18 at 11:52













  • Think of it the other direction. Think of it like a non-numeric scale. S-M-L are not strictly linear. It is more like that. The only reason to use numbers at all is that with enough data points it becomes consistent enough to be able to track velocity. Your team should think an 8 is two steps bigger than a 3, one step bigger than a 5. you can't divide them into each other.

    – Daniel
    Dec 10 '18 at 13:01











  • I get it. I just don't understand how you can do things like burn downs, or measure velocity if they're not linear AND assignable to a number. Let's say that last sprint I did "5 x L, 3 x M and 6 x S". How can I estimate my velocity when I'm doing the next sprint which consists of "15 x M". It's comparing apples and oranges, right?

    – John
    Dec 10 '18 at 16:58






  • 1





    @John it's always going to be comparing apples and oranges because (generally speaking) no two tasks are going to be the same. The idea behind the numbers is to get to a quick "gut check". Daniel mentions it at the end - "consistent enough to be useful for planning". You're not trying to make a precise statement "We will definitely do 15 x M next sprint", you're trying to put some science and proof behind the statement "We can do 15 x M next sprint" ie "The team is setting an attainable milestone"

    – Vlad274
    Dec 10 '18 at 21:45













  • This is one of the things that #noestimates is all about. Once your team is experienced enough, you can move to just using shirt sizes (which only serve as a guide to see if a story needs breaking down, i.e. everything over a medium needs splitting). This excellent presentation from Allen Holub illustrates the point nicely, it's well worth the watch youtube.com/watch?v=QVBlnCTu9Ms

    – Doctor Jones
    Dec 11 '18 at 11:19



















6














TL;DR



Some story point systems do use linear values, but such systems are rarely used by experienced agile practitioners as the numbers are usually misleading. Non-linear systems deliberately expose the imprecision of the estimation process, and rely on smoothing functions to arrive at reasonable planning values for team capacity.



Understanding Relative-Effort Values



In common usage, linear means “sequential.” (NB: there are mathematical and scientific definitions that are more complex.) However, most story-pointing systems are not sequential.



The most common story-pointing system is arguably Mike Cohn’s modified Fibonacci sequence, where each value is a non-linear function of preceding values. The core idea is to have a reference story equal to one or two story points, and then to size all stories relative to the reference story.



Central to story pointing is:




  1. The notion that they represent effort or complexity, not time.

  2. An acknowledgment that estimation becomes less precise as stories get larger.


An 8-point story is therefore somewhere between 4..8 times the effort of the reference story, and roughly falls between 5..13 on the point scale. Any attempt to treat one 8-point story as exactly equivalent to eight one-point stories misses a core principle of the system, which is that estimates are imprecise by nature and get more so as the size (and therefore the cone of uncertainty) of a story increases.



Story point metrics like velocity can provide a range of values for expected team capacity during Sprint Planning, especially when using a smoothing function like a trailing average. Attempting to wring high precision out of the velocity metric, or treating story points as linear time values, would be a misuse of the methodology. This is a common anti-pattern, so just don’t do it.






share|improve this answer

































    4














    I have never heard of this. Story points are linear (otherwise it would be impossible to use them as a measure of velocity). However the scale is non-linear, to stop people arguing over whether something is a "5 or a 6" - by using a psuedo-fibonacci sequence, you automatically account for the vagueness of estimation.






    share|improve this answer



















    • 1





      This makes more sense to me. I think that maybe people have conflated the non-linear choice of numbers (the Fibonacci system) with having the numbers themselves be non linear

      – John
      Dec 10 '18 at 11:48













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    3 Answers
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    3 Answers
    3






    active

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    active

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    active

    oldest

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    11














    Perhaps a more accurate way to put it would be that story point estimates are imprecise. If you have a 5 and a 3, that may or may not be the same size as an 8.



    To make this less confusing, let's start with a non-numeric scale like T-Shirt sizes. XS, S, M, L, XL and so on. We can agree pretty easily that a small and a medium t-shirt do not get you a large t-shirt. Yet, a large is bigger than a medium and a lot bigger than a small, and generally smaller than an XL. Not always, of course. We all know that one company that we have to buy a different size in. User stories are the same way. It's possible I have a M that is actually bigger than some L, but this is the exception, so I can normally assume that a L is one step bigger than an M.



    OK, now let's do this: XS-1, S-3, M-5, L-8, XL-13. Now, all of the same rules apply. It is possible in some edge cases that a 5 is actually bigger than some 8, but generally speaking an 8 is one step bigger than a 5.



    Then there is the topic of velocity. Because the relationship between the sizes is generally consistent, we can add the sizes together and if we work at a consistent pace we will have a fairly consistent total. It won't be perfect - maybe 45 - 52, but that is consistent enough to be useful for planning. If you have 35 points in the sprint, it is probably too little in this case and 60 is almost certainly too much. This is also why most forecasts are a range, not a precise measurement.






    share|improve this answer



















    • 1





      OK. I think I understand. But in our mental-models we should be aiming for linear scale right? I mean, we know things are imprecise, but in an ideal world they would be perfectly linear? It would be wrong for a team to say "We believe that an 8 is 3 times larger than a 5" for example?

      – John
      Dec 10 '18 at 11:52













    • Think of it the other direction. Think of it like a non-numeric scale. S-M-L are not strictly linear. It is more like that. The only reason to use numbers at all is that with enough data points it becomes consistent enough to be able to track velocity. Your team should think an 8 is two steps bigger than a 3, one step bigger than a 5. you can't divide them into each other.

      – Daniel
      Dec 10 '18 at 13:01











    • I get it. I just don't understand how you can do things like burn downs, or measure velocity if they're not linear AND assignable to a number. Let's say that last sprint I did "5 x L, 3 x M and 6 x S". How can I estimate my velocity when I'm doing the next sprint which consists of "15 x M". It's comparing apples and oranges, right?

      – John
      Dec 10 '18 at 16:58






    • 1





      @John it's always going to be comparing apples and oranges because (generally speaking) no two tasks are going to be the same. The idea behind the numbers is to get to a quick "gut check". Daniel mentions it at the end - "consistent enough to be useful for planning". You're not trying to make a precise statement "We will definitely do 15 x M next sprint", you're trying to put some science and proof behind the statement "We can do 15 x M next sprint" ie "The team is setting an attainable milestone"

      – Vlad274
      Dec 10 '18 at 21:45













    • This is one of the things that #noestimates is all about. Once your team is experienced enough, you can move to just using shirt sizes (which only serve as a guide to see if a story needs breaking down, i.e. everything over a medium needs splitting). This excellent presentation from Allen Holub illustrates the point nicely, it's well worth the watch youtube.com/watch?v=QVBlnCTu9Ms

      – Doctor Jones
      Dec 11 '18 at 11:19
















    11














    Perhaps a more accurate way to put it would be that story point estimates are imprecise. If you have a 5 and a 3, that may or may not be the same size as an 8.



    To make this less confusing, let's start with a non-numeric scale like T-Shirt sizes. XS, S, M, L, XL and so on. We can agree pretty easily that a small and a medium t-shirt do not get you a large t-shirt. Yet, a large is bigger than a medium and a lot bigger than a small, and generally smaller than an XL. Not always, of course. We all know that one company that we have to buy a different size in. User stories are the same way. It's possible I have a M that is actually bigger than some L, but this is the exception, so I can normally assume that a L is one step bigger than an M.



    OK, now let's do this: XS-1, S-3, M-5, L-8, XL-13. Now, all of the same rules apply. It is possible in some edge cases that a 5 is actually bigger than some 8, but generally speaking an 8 is one step bigger than a 5.



    Then there is the topic of velocity. Because the relationship between the sizes is generally consistent, we can add the sizes together and if we work at a consistent pace we will have a fairly consistent total. It won't be perfect - maybe 45 - 52, but that is consistent enough to be useful for planning. If you have 35 points in the sprint, it is probably too little in this case and 60 is almost certainly too much. This is also why most forecasts are a range, not a precise measurement.






    share|improve this answer



















    • 1





      OK. I think I understand. But in our mental-models we should be aiming for linear scale right? I mean, we know things are imprecise, but in an ideal world they would be perfectly linear? It would be wrong for a team to say "We believe that an 8 is 3 times larger than a 5" for example?

      – John
      Dec 10 '18 at 11:52













    • Think of it the other direction. Think of it like a non-numeric scale. S-M-L are not strictly linear. It is more like that. The only reason to use numbers at all is that with enough data points it becomes consistent enough to be able to track velocity. Your team should think an 8 is two steps bigger than a 3, one step bigger than a 5. you can't divide them into each other.

      – Daniel
      Dec 10 '18 at 13:01











    • I get it. I just don't understand how you can do things like burn downs, or measure velocity if they're not linear AND assignable to a number. Let's say that last sprint I did "5 x L, 3 x M and 6 x S". How can I estimate my velocity when I'm doing the next sprint which consists of "15 x M". It's comparing apples and oranges, right?

      – John
      Dec 10 '18 at 16:58






    • 1





      @John it's always going to be comparing apples and oranges because (generally speaking) no two tasks are going to be the same. The idea behind the numbers is to get to a quick "gut check". Daniel mentions it at the end - "consistent enough to be useful for planning". You're not trying to make a precise statement "We will definitely do 15 x M next sprint", you're trying to put some science and proof behind the statement "We can do 15 x M next sprint" ie "The team is setting an attainable milestone"

      – Vlad274
      Dec 10 '18 at 21:45













    • This is one of the things that #noestimates is all about. Once your team is experienced enough, you can move to just using shirt sizes (which only serve as a guide to see if a story needs breaking down, i.e. everything over a medium needs splitting). This excellent presentation from Allen Holub illustrates the point nicely, it's well worth the watch youtube.com/watch?v=QVBlnCTu9Ms

      – Doctor Jones
      Dec 11 '18 at 11:19














    11












    11








    11







    Perhaps a more accurate way to put it would be that story point estimates are imprecise. If you have a 5 and a 3, that may or may not be the same size as an 8.



    To make this less confusing, let's start with a non-numeric scale like T-Shirt sizes. XS, S, M, L, XL and so on. We can agree pretty easily that a small and a medium t-shirt do not get you a large t-shirt. Yet, a large is bigger than a medium and a lot bigger than a small, and generally smaller than an XL. Not always, of course. We all know that one company that we have to buy a different size in. User stories are the same way. It's possible I have a M that is actually bigger than some L, but this is the exception, so I can normally assume that a L is one step bigger than an M.



    OK, now let's do this: XS-1, S-3, M-5, L-8, XL-13. Now, all of the same rules apply. It is possible in some edge cases that a 5 is actually bigger than some 8, but generally speaking an 8 is one step bigger than a 5.



    Then there is the topic of velocity. Because the relationship between the sizes is generally consistent, we can add the sizes together and if we work at a consistent pace we will have a fairly consistent total. It won't be perfect - maybe 45 - 52, but that is consistent enough to be useful for planning. If you have 35 points in the sprint, it is probably too little in this case and 60 is almost certainly too much. This is also why most forecasts are a range, not a precise measurement.






    share|improve this answer













    Perhaps a more accurate way to put it would be that story point estimates are imprecise. If you have a 5 and a 3, that may or may not be the same size as an 8.



    To make this less confusing, let's start with a non-numeric scale like T-Shirt sizes. XS, S, M, L, XL and so on. We can agree pretty easily that a small and a medium t-shirt do not get you a large t-shirt. Yet, a large is bigger than a medium and a lot bigger than a small, and generally smaller than an XL. Not always, of course. We all know that one company that we have to buy a different size in. User stories are the same way. It's possible I have a M that is actually bigger than some L, but this is the exception, so I can normally assume that a L is one step bigger than an M.



    OK, now let's do this: XS-1, S-3, M-5, L-8, XL-13. Now, all of the same rules apply. It is possible in some edge cases that a 5 is actually bigger than some 8, but generally speaking an 8 is one step bigger than a 5.



    Then there is the topic of velocity. Because the relationship between the sizes is generally consistent, we can add the sizes together and if we work at a consistent pace we will have a fairly consistent total. It won't be perfect - maybe 45 - 52, but that is consistent enough to be useful for planning. If you have 35 points in the sprint, it is probably too little in this case and 60 is almost certainly too much. This is also why most forecasts are a range, not a precise measurement.







    share|improve this answer












    share|improve this answer



    share|improve this answer










    answered Dec 10 '18 at 11:12









    DanielDaniel

    8,22021024




    8,22021024








    • 1





      OK. I think I understand. But in our mental-models we should be aiming for linear scale right? I mean, we know things are imprecise, but in an ideal world they would be perfectly linear? It would be wrong for a team to say "We believe that an 8 is 3 times larger than a 5" for example?

      – John
      Dec 10 '18 at 11:52













    • Think of it the other direction. Think of it like a non-numeric scale. S-M-L are not strictly linear. It is more like that. The only reason to use numbers at all is that with enough data points it becomes consistent enough to be able to track velocity. Your team should think an 8 is two steps bigger than a 3, one step bigger than a 5. you can't divide them into each other.

      – Daniel
      Dec 10 '18 at 13:01











    • I get it. I just don't understand how you can do things like burn downs, or measure velocity if they're not linear AND assignable to a number. Let's say that last sprint I did "5 x L, 3 x M and 6 x S". How can I estimate my velocity when I'm doing the next sprint which consists of "15 x M". It's comparing apples and oranges, right?

      – John
      Dec 10 '18 at 16:58






    • 1





      @John it's always going to be comparing apples and oranges because (generally speaking) no two tasks are going to be the same. The idea behind the numbers is to get to a quick "gut check". Daniel mentions it at the end - "consistent enough to be useful for planning". You're not trying to make a precise statement "We will definitely do 15 x M next sprint", you're trying to put some science and proof behind the statement "We can do 15 x M next sprint" ie "The team is setting an attainable milestone"

      – Vlad274
      Dec 10 '18 at 21:45













    • This is one of the things that #noestimates is all about. Once your team is experienced enough, you can move to just using shirt sizes (which only serve as a guide to see if a story needs breaking down, i.e. everything over a medium needs splitting). This excellent presentation from Allen Holub illustrates the point nicely, it's well worth the watch youtube.com/watch?v=QVBlnCTu9Ms

      – Doctor Jones
      Dec 11 '18 at 11:19














    • 1





      OK. I think I understand. But in our mental-models we should be aiming for linear scale right? I mean, we know things are imprecise, but in an ideal world they would be perfectly linear? It would be wrong for a team to say "We believe that an 8 is 3 times larger than a 5" for example?

      – John
      Dec 10 '18 at 11:52













    • Think of it the other direction. Think of it like a non-numeric scale. S-M-L are not strictly linear. It is more like that. The only reason to use numbers at all is that with enough data points it becomes consistent enough to be able to track velocity. Your team should think an 8 is two steps bigger than a 3, one step bigger than a 5. you can't divide them into each other.

      – Daniel
      Dec 10 '18 at 13:01











    • I get it. I just don't understand how you can do things like burn downs, or measure velocity if they're not linear AND assignable to a number. Let's say that last sprint I did "5 x L, 3 x M and 6 x S". How can I estimate my velocity when I'm doing the next sprint which consists of "15 x M". It's comparing apples and oranges, right?

      – John
      Dec 10 '18 at 16:58






    • 1





      @John it's always going to be comparing apples and oranges because (generally speaking) no two tasks are going to be the same. The idea behind the numbers is to get to a quick "gut check". Daniel mentions it at the end - "consistent enough to be useful for planning". You're not trying to make a precise statement "We will definitely do 15 x M next sprint", you're trying to put some science and proof behind the statement "We can do 15 x M next sprint" ie "The team is setting an attainable milestone"

      – Vlad274
      Dec 10 '18 at 21:45













    • This is one of the things that #noestimates is all about. Once your team is experienced enough, you can move to just using shirt sizes (which only serve as a guide to see if a story needs breaking down, i.e. everything over a medium needs splitting). This excellent presentation from Allen Holub illustrates the point nicely, it's well worth the watch youtube.com/watch?v=QVBlnCTu9Ms

      – Doctor Jones
      Dec 11 '18 at 11:19








    1




    1





    OK. I think I understand. But in our mental-models we should be aiming for linear scale right? I mean, we know things are imprecise, but in an ideal world they would be perfectly linear? It would be wrong for a team to say "We believe that an 8 is 3 times larger than a 5" for example?

    – John
    Dec 10 '18 at 11:52







    OK. I think I understand. But in our mental-models we should be aiming for linear scale right? I mean, we know things are imprecise, but in an ideal world they would be perfectly linear? It would be wrong for a team to say "We believe that an 8 is 3 times larger than a 5" for example?

    – John
    Dec 10 '18 at 11:52















    Think of it the other direction. Think of it like a non-numeric scale. S-M-L are not strictly linear. It is more like that. The only reason to use numbers at all is that with enough data points it becomes consistent enough to be able to track velocity. Your team should think an 8 is two steps bigger than a 3, one step bigger than a 5. you can't divide them into each other.

    – Daniel
    Dec 10 '18 at 13:01





    Think of it the other direction. Think of it like a non-numeric scale. S-M-L are not strictly linear. It is more like that. The only reason to use numbers at all is that with enough data points it becomes consistent enough to be able to track velocity. Your team should think an 8 is two steps bigger than a 3, one step bigger than a 5. you can't divide them into each other.

    – Daniel
    Dec 10 '18 at 13:01













    I get it. I just don't understand how you can do things like burn downs, or measure velocity if they're not linear AND assignable to a number. Let's say that last sprint I did "5 x L, 3 x M and 6 x S". How can I estimate my velocity when I'm doing the next sprint which consists of "15 x M". It's comparing apples and oranges, right?

    – John
    Dec 10 '18 at 16:58





    I get it. I just don't understand how you can do things like burn downs, or measure velocity if they're not linear AND assignable to a number. Let's say that last sprint I did "5 x L, 3 x M and 6 x S". How can I estimate my velocity when I'm doing the next sprint which consists of "15 x M". It's comparing apples and oranges, right?

    – John
    Dec 10 '18 at 16:58




    1




    1





    @John it's always going to be comparing apples and oranges because (generally speaking) no two tasks are going to be the same. The idea behind the numbers is to get to a quick "gut check". Daniel mentions it at the end - "consistent enough to be useful for planning". You're not trying to make a precise statement "We will definitely do 15 x M next sprint", you're trying to put some science and proof behind the statement "We can do 15 x M next sprint" ie "The team is setting an attainable milestone"

    – Vlad274
    Dec 10 '18 at 21:45







    @John it's always going to be comparing apples and oranges because (generally speaking) no two tasks are going to be the same. The idea behind the numbers is to get to a quick "gut check". Daniel mentions it at the end - "consistent enough to be useful for planning". You're not trying to make a precise statement "We will definitely do 15 x M next sprint", you're trying to put some science and proof behind the statement "We can do 15 x M next sprint" ie "The team is setting an attainable milestone"

    – Vlad274
    Dec 10 '18 at 21:45















    This is one of the things that #noestimates is all about. Once your team is experienced enough, you can move to just using shirt sizes (which only serve as a guide to see if a story needs breaking down, i.e. everything over a medium needs splitting). This excellent presentation from Allen Holub illustrates the point nicely, it's well worth the watch youtube.com/watch?v=QVBlnCTu9Ms

    – Doctor Jones
    Dec 11 '18 at 11:19





    This is one of the things that #noestimates is all about. Once your team is experienced enough, you can move to just using shirt sizes (which only serve as a guide to see if a story needs breaking down, i.e. everything over a medium needs splitting). This excellent presentation from Allen Holub illustrates the point nicely, it's well worth the watch youtube.com/watch?v=QVBlnCTu9Ms

    – Doctor Jones
    Dec 11 '18 at 11:19











    6














    TL;DR



    Some story point systems do use linear values, but such systems are rarely used by experienced agile practitioners as the numbers are usually misleading. Non-linear systems deliberately expose the imprecision of the estimation process, and rely on smoothing functions to arrive at reasonable planning values for team capacity.



    Understanding Relative-Effort Values



    In common usage, linear means “sequential.” (NB: there are mathematical and scientific definitions that are more complex.) However, most story-pointing systems are not sequential.



    The most common story-pointing system is arguably Mike Cohn’s modified Fibonacci sequence, where each value is a non-linear function of preceding values. The core idea is to have a reference story equal to one or two story points, and then to size all stories relative to the reference story.



    Central to story pointing is:




    1. The notion that they represent effort or complexity, not time.

    2. An acknowledgment that estimation becomes less precise as stories get larger.


    An 8-point story is therefore somewhere between 4..8 times the effort of the reference story, and roughly falls between 5..13 on the point scale. Any attempt to treat one 8-point story as exactly equivalent to eight one-point stories misses a core principle of the system, which is that estimates are imprecise by nature and get more so as the size (and therefore the cone of uncertainty) of a story increases.



    Story point metrics like velocity can provide a range of values for expected team capacity during Sprint Planning, especially when using a smoothing function like a trailing average. Attempting to wring high precision out of the velocity metric, or treating story points as linear time values, would be a misuse of the methodology. This is a common anti-pattern, so just don’t do it.






    share|improve this answer






























      6














      TL;DR



      Some story point systems do use linear values, but such systems are rarely used by experienced agile practitioners as the numbers are usually misleading. Non-linear systems deliberately expose the imprecision of the estimation process, and rely on smoothing functions to arrive at reasonable planning values for team capacity.



      Understanding Relative-Effort Values



      In common usage, linear means “sequential.” (NB: there are mathematical and scientific definitions that are more complex.) However, most story-pointing systems are not sequential.



      The most common story-pointing system is arguably Mike Cohn’s modified Fibonacci sequence, where each value is a non-linear function of preceding values. The core idea is to have a reference story equal to one or two story points, and then to size all stories relative to the reference story.



      Central to story pointing is:




      1. The notion that they represent effort or complexity, not time.

      2. An acknowledgment that estimation becomes less precise as stories get larger.


      An 8-point story is therefore somewhere between 4..8 times the effort of the reference story, and roughly falls between 5..13 on the point scale. Any attempt to treat one 8-point story as exactly equivalent to eight one-point stories misses a core principle of the system, which is that estimates are imprecise by nature and get more so as the size (and therefore the cone of uncertainty) of a story increases.



      Story point metrics like velocity can provide a range of values for expected team capacity during Sprint Planning, especially when using a smoothing function like a trailing average. Attempting to wring high precision out of the velocity metric, or treating story points as linear time values, would be a misuse of the methodology. This is a common anti-pattern, so just don’t do it.






      share|improve this answer




























        6












        6








        6







        TL;DR



        Some story point systems do use linear values, but such systems are rarely used by experienced agile practitioners as the numbers are usually misleading. Non-linear systems deliberately expose the imprecision of the estimation process, and rely on smoothing functions to arrive at reasonable planning values for team capacity.



        Understanding Relative-Effort Values



        In common usage, linear means “sequential.” (NB: there are mathematical and scientific definitions that are more complex.) However, most story-pointing systems are not sequential.



        The most common story-pointing system is arguably Mike Cohn’s modified Fibonacci sequence, where each value is a non-linear function of preceding values. The core idea is to have a reference story equal to one or two story points, and then to size all stories relative to the reference story.



        Central to story pointing is:




        1. The notion that they represent effort or complexity, not time.

        2. An acknowledgment that estimation becomes less precise as stories get larger.


        An 8-point story is therefore somewhere between 4..8 times the effort of the reference story, and roughly falls between 5..13 on the point scale. Any attempt to treat one 8-point story as exactly equivalent to eight one-point stories misses a core principle of the system, which is that estimates are imprecise by nature and get more so as the size (and therefore the cone of uncertainty) of a story increases.



        Story point metrics like velocity can provide a range of values for expected team capacity during Sprint Planning, especially when using a smoothing function like a trailing average. Attempting to wring high precision out of the velocity metric, or treating story points as linear time values, would be a misuse of the methodology. This is a common anti-pattern, so just don’t do it.






        share|improve this answer















        TL;DR



        Some story point systems do use linear values, but such systems are rarely used by experienced agile practitioners as the numbers are usually misleading. Non-linear systems deliberately expose the imprecision of the estimation process, and rely on smoothing functions to arrive at reasonable planning values for team capacity.



        Understanding Relative-Effort Values



        In common usage, linear means “sequential.” (NB: there are mathematical and scientific definitions that are more complex.) However, most story-pointing systems are not sequential.



        The most common story-pointing system is arguably Mike Cohn’s modified Fibonacci sequence, where each value is a non-linear function of preceding values. The core idea is to have a reference story equal to one or two story points, and then to size all stories relative to the reference story.



        Central to story pointing is:




        1. The notion that they represent effort or complexity, not time.

        2. An acknowledgment that estimation becomes less precise as stories get larger.


        An 8-point story is therefore somewhere between 4..8 times the effort of the reference story, and roughly falls between 5..13 on the point scale. Any attempt to treat one 8-point story as exactly equivalent to eight one-point stories misses a core principle of the system, which is that estimates are imprecise by nature and get more so as the size (and therefore the cone of uncertainty) of a story increases.



        Story point metrics like velocity can provide a range of values for expected team capacity during Sprint Planning, especially when using a smoothing function like a trailing average. Attempting to wring high precision out of the velocity metric, or treating story points as linear time values, would be a misuse of the methodology. This is a common anti-pattern, so just don’t do it.







        share|improve this answer














        share|improve this answer



        share|improve this answer








        edited Dec 11 '18 at 7:45

























        answered Dec 10 '18 at 16:29









        Todd A. JacobsTodd A. Jacobs

        32.5k332117




        32.5k332117























            4














            I have never heard of this. Story points are linear (otherwise it would be impossible to use them as a measure of velocity). However the scale is non-linear, to stop people arguing over whether something is a "5 or a 6" - by using a psuedo-fibonacci sequence, you automatically account for the vagueness of estimation.






            share|improve this answer



















            • 1





              This makes more sense to me. I think that maybe people have conflated the non-linear choice of numbers (the Fibonacci system) with having the numbers themselves be non linear

              – John
              Dec 10 '18 at 11:48


















            4














            I have never heard of this. Story points are linear (otherwise it would be impossible to use them as a measure of velocity). However the scale is non-linear, to stop people arguing over whether something is a "5 or a 6" - by using a psuedo-fibonacci sequence, you automatically account for the vagueness of estimation.






            share|improve this answer



















            • 1





              This makes more sense to me. I think that maybe people have conflated the non-linear choice of numbers (the Fibonacci system) with having the numbers themselves be non linear

              – John
              Dec 10 '18 at 11:48
















            4












            4








            4







            I have never heard of this. Story points are linear (otherwise it would be impossible to use them as a measure of velocity). However the scale is non-linear, to stop people arguing over whether something is a "5 or a 6" - by using a psuedo-fibonacci sequence, you automatically account for the vagueness of estimation.






            share|improve this answer













            I have never heard of this. Story points are linear (otherwise it would be impossible to use them as a measure of velocity). However the scale is non-linear, to stop people arguing over whether something is a "5 or a 6" - by using a psuedo-fibonacci sequence, you automatically account for the vagueness of estimation.







            share|improve this answer












            share|improve this answer



            share|improve this answer










            answered Dec 10 '18 at 10:53









            BaracusBaracus

            27515




            27515








            • 1





              This makes more sense to me. I think that maybe people have conflated the non-linear choice of numbers (the Fibonacci system) with having the numbers themselves be non linear

              – John
              Dec 10 '18 at 11:48
















            • 1





              This makes more sense to me. I think that maybe people have conflated the non-linear choice of numbers (the Fibonacci system) with having the numbers themselves be non linear

              – John
              Dec 10 '18 at 11:48










            1




            1





            This makes more sense to me. I think that maybe people have conflated the non-linear choice of numbers (the Fibonacci system) with having the numbers themselves be non linear

            – John
            Dec 10 '18 at 11:48







            This makes more sense to me. I think that maybe people have conflated the non-linear choice of numbers (the Fibonacci system) with having the numbers themselves be non linear

            – John
            Dec 10 '18 at 11:48




















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