exponential equation has non positive roots












1












$begingroup$



Find real values of $a$ for which the equation



$4^x-(a-3)cdot 2^x+(a+4)=0$
has non positive roots




Try: Let $2^x=yin (0,1].$ Then equation convert into



$y^2-(a-3)y+(a+4)=0$



For real roots its discriminant $geq 0$



So $$(a-3)^2-4(a+4)geq 0$$



$$a^2-10a-7geq 0$$



$$ain bigg(-infty,5-4sqrt{2}bigg]cup bigg[5+4sqrt{2},inftybigg).$$



but answer is different from that , i did not know where i



am missing. could some help me to solve it. thanks










share|cite|improve this question









$endgroup$












  • $begingroup$
    Maybe include the answer you are exspecting instead of only stating "but answer is different form" hence right now we do not no either where you made your mistake.
    $endgroup$
    – mrtaurho
    Dec 21 '18 at 15:20








  • 1




    $begingroup$
    So you have real roots for $y$. But are they non-positive?
    $endgroup$
    – Andrei
    Dec 21 '18 at 15:22






  • 2




    $begingroup$
    Does the discriminant $ge 0$ ensures $yin(0,1]$?
    $endgroup$
    – A.Γ.
    Dec 21 '18 at 15:23










  • $begingroup$
    @ A.Γ. how can i calculate it. please explain me. thanks
    $endgroup$
    – DXT
    Dec 21 '18 at 15:24
















1












$begingroup$



Find real values of $a$ for which the equation



$4^x-(a-3)cdot 2^x+(a+4)=0$
has non positive roots




Try: Let $2^x=yin (0,1].$ Then equation convert into



$y^2-(a-3)y+(a+4)=0$



For real roots its discriminant $geq 0$



So $$(a-3)^2-4(a+4)geq 0$$



$$a^2-10a-7geq 0$$



$$ain bigg(-infty,5-4sqrt{2}bigg]cup bigg[5+4sqrt{2},inftybigg).$$



but answer is different from that , i did not know where i



am missing. could some help me to solve it. thanks










share|cite|improve this question









$endgroup$












  • $begingroup$
    Maybe include the answer you are exspecting instead of only stating "but answer is different form" hence right now we do not no either where you made your mistake.
    $endgroup$
    – mrtaurho
    Dec 21 '18 at 15:20








  • 1




    $begingroup$
    So you have real roots for $y$. But are they non-positive?
    $endgroup$
    – Andrei
    Dec 21 '18 at 15:22






  • 2




    $begingroup$
    Does the discriminant $ge 0$ ensures $yin(0,1]$?
    $endgroup$
    – A.Γ.
    Dec 21 '18 at 15:23










  • $begingroup$
    @ A.Γ. how can i calculate it. please explain me. thanks
    $endgroup$
    – DXT
    Dec 21 '18 at 15:24














1












1








1


4



$begingroup$



Find real values of $a$ for which the equation



$4^x-(a-3)cdot 2^x+(a+4)=0$
has non positive roots




Try: Let $2^x=yin (0,1].$ Then equation convert into



$y^2-(a-3)y+(a+4)=0$



For real roots its discriminant $geq 0$



So $$(a-3)^2-4(a+4)geq 0$$



$$a^2-10a-7geq 0$$



$$ain bigg(-infty,5-4sqrt{2}bigg]cup bigg[5+4sqrt{2},inftybigg).$$



but answer is different from that , i did not know where i



am missing. could some help me to solve it. thanks










share|cite|improve this question









$endgroup$





Find real values of $a$ for which the equation



$4^x-(a-3)cdot 2^x+(a+4)=0$
has non positive roots




Try: Let $2^x=yin (0,1].$ Then equation convert into



$y^2-(a-3)y+(a+4)=0$



For real roots its discriminant $geq 0$



So $$(a-3)^2-4(a+4)geq 0$$



$$a^2-10a-7geq 0$$



$$ain bigg(-infty,5-4sqrt{2}bigg]cup bigg[5+4sqrt{2},inftybigg).$$



but answer is different from that , i did not know where i



am missing. could some help me to solve it. thanks







calculus






share|cite|improve this question













share|cite|improve this question











share|cite|improve this question




share|cite|improve this question










asked Dec 21 '18 at 15:15









DXTDXT

5,9222731




5,9222731












  • $begingroup$
    Maybe include the answer you are exspecting instead of only stating "but answer is different form" hence right now we do not no either where you made your mistake.
    $endgroup$
    – mrtaurho
    Dec 21 '18 at 15:20








  • 1




    $begingroup$
    So you have real roots for $y$. But are they non-positive?
    $endgroup$
    – Andrei
    Dec 21 '18 at 15:22






  • 2




    $begingroup$
    Does the discriminant $ge 0$ ensures $yin(0,1]$?
    $endgroup$
    – A.Γ.
    Dec 21 '18 at 15:23










  • $begingroup$
    @ A.Γ. how can i calculate it. please explain me. thanks
    $endgroup$
    – DXT
    Dec 21 '18 at 15:24


















  • $begingroup$
    Maybe include the answer you are exspecting instead of only stating "but answer is different form" hence right now we do not no either where you made your mistake.
    $endgroup$
    – mrtaurho
    Dec 21 '18 at 15:20








  • 1




    $begingroup$
    So you have real roots for $y$. But are they non-positive?
    $endgroup$
    – Andrei
    Dec 21 '18 at 15:22






  • 2




    $begingroup$
    Does the discriminant $ge 0$ ensures $yin(0,1]$?
    $endgroup$
    – A.Γ.
    Dec 21 '18 at 15:23










  • $begingroup$
    @ A.Γ. how can i calculate it. please explain me. thanks
    $endgroup$
    – DXT
    Dec 21 '18 at 15:24
















$begingroup$
Maybe include the answer you are exspecting instead of only stating "but answer is different form" hence right now we do not no either where you made your mistake.
$endgroup$
– mrtaurho
Dec 21 '18 at 15:20






$begingroup$
Maybe include the answer you are exspecting instead of only stating "but answer is different form" hence right now we do not no either where you made your mistake.
$endgroup$
– mrtaurho
Dec 21 '18 at 15:20






1




1




$begingroup$
So you have real roots for $y$. But are they non-positive?
$endgroup$
– Andrei
Dec 21 '18 at 15:22




$begingroup$
So you have real roots for $y$. But are they non-positive?
$endgroup$
– Andrei
Dec 21 '18 at 15:22




2




2




$begingroup$
Does the discriminant $ge 0$ ensures $yin(0,1]$?
$endgroup$
– A.Γ.
Dec 21 '18 at 15:23




$begingroup$
Does the discriminant $ge 0$ ensures $yin(0,1]$?
$endgroup$
– A.Γ.
Dec 21 '18 at 15:23












$begingroup$
@ A.Γ. how can i calculate it. please explain me. thanks
$endgroup$
– DXT
Dec 21 '18 at 15:24




$begingroup$
@ A.Γ. how can i calculate it. please explain me. thanks
$endgroup$
– DXT
Dec 21 '18 at 15:24










4 Answers
4






active

oldest

votes


















4












$begingroup$

Rewrite the equation as
$$
a=frac{4^x+3cdot 2^x+4}{2^x-1}
$$

and plot the function $a(x)$. From the plot you can see the values of $a$ that correspond to $x<0$.



You can change $y=2^x$ to simplify drawing, but then you will need to neglect negative $y$ as they do not correspond to real values of $x$.



Differentiate to get two critical points $y=1pm 2sqrt{2}$ among which only $1+2sqrt{2}$ is positive, then study intervals of monotonicity and asymptotics. The answer is $a<-4$.
enter image description here






share|cite|improve this answer











$endgroup$





















    5












    $begingroup$

    Hint:



    your equation has non positive roots if $0<2^x<1$, so, with your substitution, the condition becomes $0<y<1$, for the equation $y^2-(a-3)y+(a+4)=0$



    Can you do from this?





    If $y_1,y_2$are the solutions we have :



    $
    y_1+y_2=a-3 qquad ,qquad y_1y_2=a+4
    $



    and we want:
    $$
    begin{cases}
    0<a-3<2\
    0<a+4<1
    end{cases}
    $$

    but: $a+4<1 Rightarrow a<-3$ and $a-3>0 Rightarrow a>3$



    so it is impossible to have $0<y_1<1$ and $0<y_2<1$






    share|cite|improve this answer











    $endgroup$













    • $begingroup$
      From $a+4<1$ we have $a<-3$, but from $a-3>0$ we have also $a>3$, so.....
      $endgroup$
      – Emilio Novati
      Dec 21 '18 at 15:42










    • $begingroup$
      I add something to may answer. I hope it's useful :)
      $endgroup$
      – Emilio Novati
      Dec 21 '18 at 15:55










    • $begingroup$
      Non-positive roots requires $x le 0$, so $0 < 2^x le 1$.
      $endgroup$
      – Paul Sinclair
      Dec 21 '18 at 17:52



















    3












    $begingroup$

    You want $f(y) = y^2 - (a-3) y + (a+4)$ to have at least one root in $(0,1]$.
    Note that $f(0) = a+4$ and $f(1) = 8$, while the minimum value of $f(y)$, occurring at
    $y = (a-3)/2$, is $(-a^2 + 10 a + 7)/4$. There are several cases to consider.




    • If $a < -4$, $f(0) < 0 < f(1)$ so there is a root in $(0,1]$.

    • For $a = -4$, $f(y) = y^2 + 7 y$ so the roots $0$ and $-7$ are not in $(0,1]$.

    • For $a > -4$, $f(0) > 0$ and $f(1) > 0$ so the only way to have a root in $(0,1]$ would be if the minimum occurs between $0$ and $1$ and the minimum value $le 0$. The
      minimum is at $(a-3)/2$, so this requires $a in (3,5]$. But for $a$ in this interval,
      $-a^2 + 10 a + 7 > 0$.


    So the answer is $a < -4$.



    Alternative method:
    For given $y$, $f(y) = 0$ for $a = A(y) = 4 + y + 8/(y-1)$. Thus you want the set of values $A(y)$ for $0 < y < 1$ (of course $A(1)$ is undefined).
    $A'(y) = dfrac{y^2 - y - 7}{(y-1)^2} < 0$ in this interval, so $A$ is a decreasing function of $y$, with $A(y) to -infty$ as $y to 1-$. Thus the answer is $(-infty, A(0)) = (-infty, -4)$.






    share|cite|improve this answer











    $endgroup$





















      2












      $begingroup$

      Not only the equation in $y$ must have real roots, but these roots have to be $le 1$, since it's asked that the equation in $x$ has non-positive roots, so that $y=2^xle 2^0=1$.



      To test whether the roots are less than $1$, we can place $1$ w.r.t. the roots $y_1,y_2$ of $;p(y)=y^2-(a-3)y+a+4$. The standard method is to determine the sign of $p(1)=8>0$. Therefore $1$ does not separate the roots of $p(y)$, and $1$ is either less than or greater than both of them. Furthermore, the half-sum of the roots is $;frac{a-3}2$ by Vieta's relations, so that
      $$y_1, y_2 le 1iff frac{y_1+y_2}2=frac{a-3}2 le 1iff ale 5. $$
      So the solution is
      $$ain Bigl{Bigl(-infty,5-4sqrt{2}Bigr]cup Bigl[5+4sqrt{2},inftyBigr)Bigr}cap (-infty,5]=Bigl(-infty,5-4sqrt{2}Bigr].$$






      share|cite|improve this answer









      $endgroup$













      • $begingroup$
        There must be some error in your computations. The interval is $a<-4$.
        $endgroup$
        – egreg
        Dec 21 '18 at 18:07










      • $begingroup$
        @egreg: That's quite possible – I computed directly on screen. Further it's not clear to me whether the O.P. wants both roots non-positive or at least $1$. I'll check that.
        $endgroup$
        – Bernard
        Dec 21 '18 at 18:42











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      4 Answers
      4






      active

      oldest

      votes








      4 Answers
      4






      active

      oldest

      votes









      active

      oldest

      votes






      active

      oldest

      votes









      4












      $begingroup$

      Rewrite the equation as
      $$
      a=frac{4^x+3cdot 2^x+4}{2^x-1}
      $$

      and plot the function $a(x)$. From the plot you can see the values of $a$ that correspond to $x<0$.



      You can change $y=2^x$ to simplify drawing, but then you will need to neglect negative $y$ as they do not correspond to real values of $x$.



      Differentiate to get two critical points $y=1pm 2sqrt{2}$ among which only $1+2sqrt{2}$ is positive, then study intervals of monotonicity and asymptotics. The answer is $a<-4$.
      enter image description here






      share|cite|improve this answer











      $endgroup$


















        4












        $begingroup$

        Rewrite the equation as
        $$
        a=frac{4^x+3cdot 2^x+4}{2^x-1}
        $$

        and plot the function $a(x)$. From the plot you can see the values of $a$ that correspond to $x<0$.



        You can change $y=2^x$ to simplify drawing, but then you will need to neglect negative $y$ as they do not correspond to real values of $x$.



        Differentiate to get two critical points $y=1pm 2sqrt{2}$ among which only $1+2sqrt{2}$ is positive, then study intervals of monotonicity and asymptotics. The answer is $a<-4$.
        enter image description here






        share|cite|improve this answer











        $endgroup$
















          4












          4








          4





          $begingroup$

          Rewrite the equation as
          $$
          a=frac{4^x+3cdot 2^x+4}{2^x-1}
          $$

          and plot the function $a(x)$. From the plot you can see the values of $a$ that correspond to $x<0$.



          You can change $y=2^x$ to simplify drawing, but then you will need to neglect negative $y$ as they do not correspond to real values of $x$.



          Differentiate to get two critical points $y=1pm 2sqrt{2}$ among which only $1+2sqrt{2}$ is positive, then study intervals of monotonicity and asymptotics. The answer is $a<-4$.
          enter image description here






          share|cite|improve this answer











          $endgroup$



          Rewrite the equation as
          $$
          a=frac{4^x+3cdot 2^x+4}{2^x-1}
          $$

          and plot the function $a(x)$. From the plot you can see the values of $a$ that correspond to $x<0$.



          You can change $y=2^x$ to simplify drawing, but then you will need to neglect negative $y$ as they do not correspond to real values of $x$.



          Differentiate to get two critical points $y=1pm 2sqrt{2}$ among which only $1+2sqrt{2}$ is positive, then study intervals of monotonicity and asymptotics. The answer is $a<-4$.
          enter image description here







          share|cite|improve this answer














          share|cite|improve this answer



          share|cite|improve this answer








          edited Dec 21 '18 at 17:22

























          answered Dec 21 '18 at 15:30









          A.Γ.A.Γ.

          22.8k32656




          22.8k32656























              5












              $begingroup$

              Hint:



              your equation has non positive roots if $0<2^x<1$, so, with your substitution, the condition becomes $0<y<1$, for the equation $y^2-(a-3)y+(a+4)=0$



              Can you do from this?





              If $y_1,y_2$are the solutions we have :



              $
              y_1+y_2=a-3 qquad ,qquad y_1y_2=a+4
              $



              and we want:
              $$
              begin{cases}
              0<a-3<2\
              0<a+4<1
              end{cases}
              $$

              but: $a+4<1 Rightarrow a<-3$ and $a-3>0 Rightarrow a>3$



              so it is impossible to have $0<y_1<1$ and $0<y_2<1$






              share|cite|improve this answer











              $endgroup$













              • $begingroup$
                From $a+4<1$ we have $a<-3$, but from $a-3>0$ we have also $a>3$, so.....
                $endgroup$
                – Emilio Novati
                Dec 21 '18 at 15:42










              • $begingroup$
                I add something to may answer. I hope it's useful :)
                $endgroup$
                – Emilio Novati
                Dec 21 '18 at 15:55










              • $begingroup$
                Non-positive roots requires $x le 0$, so $0 < 2^x le 1$.
                $endgroup$
                – Paul Sinclair
                Dec 21 '18 at 17:52
















              5












              $begingroup$

              Hint:



              your equation has non positive roots if $0<2^x<1$, so, with your substitution, the condition becomes $0<y<1$, for the equation $y^2-(a-3)y+(a+4)=0$



              Can you do from this?





              If $y_1,y_2$are the solutions we have :



              $
              y_1+y_2=a-3 qquad ,qquad y_1y_2=a+4
              $



              and we want:
              $$
              begin{cases}
              0<a-3<2\
              0<a+4<1
              end{cases}
              $$

              but: $a+4<1 Rightarrow a<-3$ and $a-3>0 Rightarrow a>3$



              so it is impossible to have $0<y_1<1$ and $0<y_2<1$






              share|cite|improve this answer











              $endgroup$













              • $begingroup$
                From $a+4<1$ we have $a<-3$, but from $a-3>0$ we have also $a>3$, so.....
                $endgroup$
                – Emilio Novati
                Dec 21 '18 at 15:42










              • $begingroup$
                I add something to may answer. I hope it's useful :)
                $endgroup$
                – Emilio Novati
                Dec 21 '18 at 15:55










              • $begingroup$
                Non-positive roots requires $x le 0$, so $0 < 2^x le 1$.
                $endgroup$
                – Paul Sinclair
                Dec 21 '18 at 17:52














              5












              5








              5





              $begingroup$

              Hint:



              your equation has non positive roots if $0<2^x<1$, so, with your substitution, the condition becomes $0<y<1$, for the equation $y^2-(a-3)y+(a+4)=0$



              Can you do from this?





              If $y_1,y_2$are the solutions we have :



              $
              y_1+y_2=a-3 qquad ,qquad y_1y_2=a+4
              $



              and we want:
              $$
              begin{cases}
              0<a-3<2\
              0<a+4<1
              end{cases}
              $$

              but: $a+4<1 Rightarrow a<-3$ and $a-3>0 Rightarrow a>3$



              so it is impossible to have $0<y_1<1$ and $0<y_2<1$






              share|cite|improve this answer











              $endgroup$



              Hint:



              your equation has non positive roots if $0<2^x<1$, so, with your substitution, the condition becomes $0<y<1$, for the equation $y^2-(a-3)y+(a+4)=0$



              Can you do from this?





              If $y_1,y_2$are the solutions we have :



              $
              y_1+y_2=a-3 qquad ,qquad y_1y_2=a+4
              $



              and we want:
              $$
              begin{cases}
              0<a-3<2\
              0<a+4<1
              end{cases}
              $$

              but: $a+4<1 Rightarrow a<-3$ and $a-3>0 Rightarrow a>3$



              so it is impossible to have $0<y_1<1$ and $0<y_2<1$







              share|cite|improve this answer














              share|cite|improve this answer



              share|cite|improve this answer








              edited Dec 21 '18 at 16:03

























              answered Dec 21 '18 at 15:29









              Emilio NovatiEmilio Novati

              52.1k43474




              52.1k43474












              • $begingroup$
                From $a+4<1$ we have $a<-3$, but from $a-3>0$ we have also $a>3$, so.....
                $endgroup$
                – Emilio Novati
                Dec 21 '18 at 15:42










              • $begingroup$
                I add something to may answer. I hope it's useful :)
                $endgroup$
                – Emilio Novati
                Dec 21 '18 at 15:55










              • $begingroup$
                Non-positive roots requires $x le 0$, so $0 < 2^x le 1$.
                $endgroup$
                – Paul Sinclair
                Dec 21 '18 at 17:52


















              • $begingroup$
                From $a+4<1$ we have $a<-3$, but from $a-3>0$ we have also $a>3$, so.....
                $endgroup$
                – Emilio Novati
                Dec 21 '18 at 15:42










              • $begingroup$
                I add something to may answer. I hope it's useful :)
                $endgroup$
                – Emilio Novati
                Dec 21 '18 at 15:55










              • $begingroup$
                Non-positive roots requires $x le 0$, so $0 < 2^x le 1$.
                $endgroup$
                – Paul Sinclair
                Dec 21 '18 at 17:52
















              $begingroup$
              From $a+4<1$ we have $a<-3$, but from $a-3>0$ we have also $a>3$, so.....
              $endgroup$
              – Emilio Novati
              Dec 21 '18 at 15:42




              $begingroup$
              From $a+4<1$ we have $a<-3$, but from $a-3>0$ we have also $a>3$, so.....
              $endgroup$
              – Emilio Novati
              Dec 21 '18 at 15:42












              $begingroup$
              I add something to may answer. I hope it's useful :)
              $endgroup$
              – Emilio Novati
              Dec 21 '18 at 15:55




              $begingroup$
              I add something to may answer. I hope it's useful :)
              $endgroup$
              – Emilio Novati
              Dec 21 '18 at 15:55












              $begingroup$
              Non-positive roots requires $x le 0$, so $0 < 2^x le 1$.
              $endgroup$
              – Paul Sinclair
              Dec 21 '18 at 17:52




              $begingroup$
              Non-positive roots requires $x le 0$, so $0 < 2^x le 1$.
              $endgroup$
              – Paul Sinclair
              Dec 21 '18 at 17:52











              3












              $begingroup$

              You want $f(y) = y^2 - (a-3) y + (a+4)$ to have at least one root in $(0,1]$.
              Note that $f(0) = a+4$ and $f(1) = 8$, while the minimum value of $f(y)$, occurring at
              $y = (a-3)/2$, is $(-a^2 + 10 a + 7)/4$. There are several cases to consider.




              • If $a < -4$, $f(0) < 0 < f(1)$ so there is a root in $(0,1]$.

              • For $a = -4$, $f(y) = y^2 + 7 y$ so the roots $0$ and $-7$ are not in $(0,1]$.

              • For $a > -4$, $f(0) > 0$ and $f(1) > 0$ so the only way to have a root in $(0,1]$ would be if the minimum occurs between $0$ and $1$ and the minimum value $le 0$. The
                minimum is at $(a-3)/2$, so this requires $a in (3,5]$. But for $a$ in this interval,
                $-a^2 + 10 a + 7 > 0$.


              So the answer is $a < -4$.



              Alternative method:
              For given $y$, $f(y) = 0$ for $a = A(y) = 4 + y + 8/(y-1)$. Thus you want the set of values $A(y)$ for $0 < y < 1$ (of course $A(1)$ is undefined).
              $A'(y) = dfrac{y^2 - y - 7}{(y-1)^2} < 0$ in this interval, so $A$ is a decreasing function of $y$, with $A(y) to -infty$ as $y to 1-$. Thus the answer is $(-infty, A(0)) = (-infty, -4)$.






              share|cite|improve this answer











              $endgroup$


















                3












                $begingroup$

                You want $f(y) = y^2 - (a-3) y + (a+4)$ to have at least one root in $(0,1]$.
                Note that $f(0) = a+4$ and $f(1) = 8$, while the minimum value of $f(y)$, occurring at
                $y = (a-3)/2$, is $(-a^2 + 10 a + 7)/4$. There are several cases to consider.




                • If $a < -4$, $f(0) < 0 < f(1)$ so there is a root in $(0,1]$.

                • For $a = -4$, $f(y) = y^2 + 7 y$ so the roots $0$ and $-7$ are not in $(0,1]$.

                • For $a > -4$, $f(0) > 0$ and $f(1) > 0$ so the only way to have a root in $(0,1]$ would be if the minimum occurs between $0$ and $1$ and the minimum value $le 0$. The
                  minimum is at $(a-3)/2$, so this requires $a in (3,5]$. But for $a$ in this interval,
                  $-a^2 + 10 a + 7 > 0$.


                So the answer is $a < -4$.



                Alternative method:
                For given $y$, $f(y) = 0$ for $a = A(y) = 4 + y + 8/(y-1)$. Thus you want the set of values $A(y)$ for $0 < y < 1$ (of course $A(1)$ is undefined).
                $A'(y) = dfrac{y^2 - y - 7}{(y-1)^2} < 0$ in this interval, so $A$ is a decreasing function of $y$, with $A(y) to -infty$ as $y to 1-$. Thus the answer is $(-infty, A(0)) = (-infty, -4)$.






                share|cite|improve this answer











                $endgroup$
















                  3












                  3








                  3





                  $begingroup$

                  You want $f(y) = y^2 - (a-3) y + (a+4)$ to have at least one root in $(0,1]$.
                  Note that $f(0) = a+4$ and $f(1) = 8$, while the minimum value of $f(y)$, occurring at
                  $y = (a-3)/2$, is $(-a^2 + 10 a + 7)/4$. There are several cases to consider.




                  • If $a < -4$, $f(0) < 0 < f(1)$ so there is a root in $(0,1]$.

                  • For $a = -4$, $f(y) = y^2 + 7 y$ so the roots $0$ and $-7$ are not in $(0,1]$.

                  • For $a > -4$, $f(0) > 0$ and $f(1) > 0$ so the only way to have a root in $(0,1]$ would be if the minimum occurs between $0$ and $1$ and the minimum value $le 0$. The
                    minimum is at $(a-3)/2$, so this requires $a in (3,5]$. But for $a$ in this interval,
                    $-a^2 + 10 a + 7 > 0$.


                  So the answer is $a < -4$.



                  Alternative method:
                  For given $y$, $f(y) = 0$ for $a = A(y) = 4 + y + 8/(y-1)$. Thus you want the set of values $A(y)$ for $0 < y < 1$ (of course $A(1)$ is undefined).
                  $A'(y) = dfrac{y^2 - y - 7}{(y-1)^2} < 0$ in this interval, so $A$ is a decreasing function of $y$, with $A(y) to -infty$ as $y to 1-$. Thus the answer is $(-infty, A(0)) = (-infty, -4)$.






                  share|cite|improve this answer











                  $endgroup$



                  You want $f(y) = y^2 - (a-3) y + (a+4)$ to have at least one root in $(0,1]$.
                  Note that $f(0) = a+4$ and $f(1) = 8$, while the minimum value of $f(y)$, occurring at
                  $y = (a-3)/2$, is $(-a^2 + 10 a + 7)/4$. There are several cases to consider.




                  • If $a < -4$, $f(0) < 0 < f(1)$ so there is a root in $(0,1]$.

                  • For $a = -4$, $f(y) = y^2 + 7 y$ so the roots $0$ and $-7$ are not in $(0,1]$.

                  • For $a > -4$, $f(0) > 0$ and $f(1) > 0$ so the only way to have a root in $(0,1]$ would be if the minimum occurs between $0$ and $1$ and the minimum value $le 0$. The
                    minimum is at $(a-3)/2$, so this requires $a in (3,5]$. But for $a$ in this interval,
                    $-a^2 + 10 a + 7 > 0$.


                  So the answer is $a < -4$.



                  Alternative method:
                  For given $y$, $f(y) = 0$ for $a = A(y) = 4 + y + 8/(y-1)$. Thus you want the set of values $A(y)$ for $0 < y < 1$ (of course $A(1)$ is undefined).
                  $A'(y) = dfrac{y^2 - y - 7}{(y-1)^2} < 0$ in this interval, so $A$ is a decreasing function of $y$, with $A(y) to -infty$ as $y to 1-$. Thus the answer is $(-infty, A(0)) = (-infty, -4)$.







                  share|cite|improve this answer














                  share|cite|improve this answer



                  share|cite|improve this answer








                  edited Dec 21 '18 at 15:57

























                  answered Dec 21 '18 at 15:46









                  Robert IsraelRobert Israel

                  325k23215469




                  325k23215469























                      2












                      $begingroup$

                      Not only the equation in $y$ must have real roots, but these roots have to be $le 1$, since it's asked that the equation in $x$ has non-positive roots, so that $y=2^xle 2^0=1$.



                      To test whether the roots are less than $1$, we can place $1$ w.r.t. the roots $y_1,y_2$ of $;p(y)=y^2-(a-3)y+a+4$. The standard method is to determine the sign of $p(1)=8>0$. Therefore $1$ does not separate the roots of $p(y)$, and $1$ is either less than or greater than both of them. Furthermore, the half-sum of the roots is $;frac{a-3}2$ by Vieta's relations, so that
                      $$y_1, y_2 le 1iff frac{y_1+y_2}2=frac{a-3}2 le 1iff ale 5. $$
                      So the solution is
                      $$ain Bigl{Bigl(-infty,5-4sqrt{2}Bigr]cup Bigl[5+4sqrt{2},inftyBigr)Bigr}cap (-infty,5]=Bigl(-infty,5-4sqrt{2}Bigr].$$






                      share|cite|improve this answer









                      $endgroup$













                      • $begingroup$
                        There must be some error in your computations. The interval is $a<-4$.
                        $endgroup$
                        – egreg
                        Dec 21 '18 at 18:07










                      • $begingroup$
                        @egreg: That's quite possible – I computed directly on screen. Further it's not clear to me whether the O.P. wants both roots non-positive or at least $1$. I'll check that.
                        $endgroup$
                        – Bernard
                        Dec 21 '18 at 18:42
















                      2












                      $begingroup$

                      Not only the equation in $y$ must have real roots, but these roots have to be $le 1$, since it's asked that the equation in $x$ has non-positive roots, so that $y=2^xle 2^0=1$.



                      To test whether the roots are less than $1$, we can place $1$ w.r.t. the roots $y_1,y_2$ of $;p(y)=y^2-(a-3)y+a+4$. The standard method is to determine the sign of $p(1)=8>0$. Therefore $1$ does not separate the roots of $p(y)$, and $1$ is either less than or greater than both of them. Furthermore, the half-sum of the roots is $;frac{a-3}2$ by Vieta's relations, so that
                      $$y_1, y_2 le 1iff frac{y_1+y_2}2=frac{a-3}2 le 1iff ale 5. $$
                      So the solution is
                      $$ain Bigl{Bigl(-infty,5-4sqrt{2}Bigr]cup Bigl[5+4sqrt{2},inftyBigr)Bigr}cap (-infty,5]=Bigl(-infty,5-4sqrt{2}Bigr].$$






                      share|cite|improve this answer









                      $endgroup$













                      • $begingroup$
                        There must be some error in your computations. The interval is $a<-4$.
                        $endgroup$
                        – egreg
                        Dec 21 '18 at 18:07










                      • $begingroup$
                        @egreg: That's quite possible – I computed directly on screen. Further it's not clear to me whether the O.P. wants both roots non-positive or at least $1$. I'll check that.
                        $endgroup$
                        – Bernard
                        Dec 21 '18 at 18:42














                      2












                      2








                      2





                      $begingroup$

                      Not only the equation in $y$ must have real roots, but these roots have to be $le 1$, since it's asked that the equation in $x$ has non-positive roots, so that $y=2^xle 2^0=1$.



                      To test whether the roots are less than $1$, we can place $1$ w.r.t. the roots $y_1,y_2$ of $;p(y)=y^2-(a-3)y+a+4$. The standard method is to determine the sign of $p(1)=8>0$. Therefore $1$ does not separate the roots of $p(y)$, and $1$ is either less than or greater than both of them. Furthermore, the half-sum of the roots is $;frac{a-3}2$ by Vieta's relations, so that
                      $$y_1, y_2 le 1iff frac{y_1+y_2}2=frac{a-3}2 le 1iff ale 5. $$
                      So the solution is
                      $$ain Bigl{Bigl(-infty,5-4sqrt{2}Bigr]cup Bigl[5+4sqrt{2},inftyBigr)Bigr}cap (-infty,5]=Bigl(-infty,5-4sqrt{2}Bigr].$$






                      share|cite|improve this answer









                      $endgroup$



                      Not only the equation in $y$ must have real roots, but these roots have to be $le 1$, since it's asked that the equation in $x$ has non-positive roots, so that $y=2^xle 2^0=1$.



                      To test whether the roots are less than $1$, we can place $1$ w.r.t. the roots $y_1,y_2$ of $;p(y)=y^2-(a-3)y+a+4$. The standard method is to determine the sign of $p(1)=8>0$. Therefore $1$ does not separate the roots of $p(y)$, and $1$ is either less than or greater than both of them. Furthermore, the half-sum of the roots is $;frac{a-3}2$ by Vieta's relations, so that
                      $$y_1, y_2 le 1iff frac{y_1+y_2}2=frac{a-3}2 le 1iff ale 5. $$
                      So the solution is
                      $$ain Bigl{Bigl(-infty,5-4sqrt{2}Bigr]cup Bigl[5+4sqrt{2},inftyBigr)Bigr}cap (-infty,5]=Bigl(-infty,5-4sqrt{2}Bigr].$$







                      share|cite|improve this answer












                      share|cite|improve this answer



                      share|cite|improve this answer










                      answered Dec 21 '18 at 15:47









                      BernardBernard

                      122k740116




                      122k740116












                      • $begingroup$
                        There must be some error in your computations. The interval is $a<-4$.
                        $endgroup$
                        – egreg
                        Dec 21 '18 at 18:07










                      • $begingroup$
                        @egreg: That's quite possible – I computed directly on screen. Further it's not clear to me whether the O.P. wants both roots non-positive or at least $1$. I'll check that.
                        $endgroup$
                        – Bernard
                        Dec 21 '18 at 18:42


















                      • $begingroup$
                        There must be some error in your computations. The interval is $a<-4$.
                        $endgroup$
                        – egreg
                        Dec 21 '18 at 18:07










                      • $begingroup$
                        @egreg: That's quite possible – I computed directly on screen. Further it's not clear to me whether the O.P. wants both roots non-positive or at least $1$. I'll check that.
                        $endgroup$
                        – Bernard
                        Dec 21 '18 at 18:42
















                      $begingroup$
                      There must be some error in your computations. The interval is $a<-4$.
                      $endgroup$
                      – egreg
                      Dec 21 '18 at 18:07




                      $begingroup$
                      There must be some error in your computations. The interval is $a<-4$.
                      $endgroup$
                      – egreg
                      Dec 21 '18 at 18:07












                      $begingroup$
                      @egreg: That's quite possible – I computed directly on screen. Further it's not clear to me whether the O.P. wants both roots non-positive or at least $1$. I'll check that.
                      $endgroup$
                      – Bernard
                      Dec 21 '18 at 18:42




                      $begingroup$
                      @egreg: That's quite possible – I computed directly on screen. Further it's not clear to me whether the O.P. wants both roots non-positive or at least $1$. I'll check that.
                      $endgroup$
                      – Bernard
                      Dec 21 '18 at 18:42


















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