A mole of Cheerios
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If I have $1$ mol of Cheerios, and I dump them on Earth, and they form even layers, how thick are all the layers (if there are any) after all are done? The height/thickness of each Cheerio is $.8$ cm, it’s radius is $1.27$ cm, the Earth’s radius is $6.371 times 10^6$ m. Assume each Cheerio has the same dimensions as listed above, and that the Earth is a perfect sphere (no bumps or grooves).
First thing I did was find the surface area of Earth, which is $5101times10^{14} m^2$. Then, assuming the base of the Cheerio is a circle, I found the area of the smallest box it could fit in, which is $6.45times10^{-14} m^2$. After that, I divided the surface area of the Earth by the area of the base of each Cheerio to see how many I need to layer it once. That number is $7.91times10^{20}$ Cheerios. To find how many layers I can have before I have $0$ Cheerios I set up the equation $(6.022times10^{23})-(7.91times10^{20}x)=0$, where $x$ is how many layers I can have. Because this has to be an integer, I get $761$ layers, meaning $6.09 m$ is the thickness of the layers.
geometry
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up vote
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If I have $1$ mol of Cheerios, and I dump them on Earth, and they form even layers, how thick are all the layers (if there are any) after all are done? The height/thickness of each Cheerio is $.8$ cm, it’s radius is $1.27$ cm, the Earth’s radius is $6.371 times 10^6$ m. Assume each Cheerio has the same dimensions as listed above, and that the Earth is a perfect sphere (no bumps or grooves).
First thing I did was find the surface area of Earth, which is $5101times10^{14} m^2$. Then, assuming the base of the Cheerio is a circle, I found the area of the smallest box it could fit in, which is $6.45times10^{-14} m^2$. After that, I divided the surface area of the Earth by the area of the base of each Cheerio to see how many I need to layer it once. That number is $7.91times10^{20}$ Cheerios. To find how many layers I can have before I have $0$ Cheerios I set up the equation $(6.022times10^{23})-(7.91times10^{20}x)=0$, where $x$ is how many layers I can have. Because this has to be an integer, I get $761$ layers, meaning $6.09 m$ is the thickness of the layers.
geometry
Welcome to MSE, you're most likely to get appropriate answers if you fully explain your question, and explain what you have already tried. Try editing your question to show this
– MRobinson
Nov 21 at 12:34
Are you familiar with hexagonal packing of circular disks? Because of the curvature of the Earth, it is not possible to maintain any such pattern perfectly, but you can assume it is approximately achieved over large patches of ground to get a few percent more Cheerios in each layer.
– David K
Nov 21 at 12:50
I’m not, but I can look into it. How would that make my estimate more accurate?
– Jon due
Nov 21 at 12:51
It depends on what you're trying to model. Are we randomly dumping the Cheerios? If so, you probably have larger gaps between your "squares" and you will have overestimated the number of Cheerios per layer. Or are we laying the Cheerios in semi-regular patterns to get as many as we can in each layer? If so, you want to choose an arrangement that puts as many Cheerios as you can in each square meter. Lining them up along a square grid gives you some number of Cheerios, but if you shift every other row 1.27 cm to the right you can put the rows closer together and fit a few more rows.
– David K
Nov 21 at 13:08
Maybe you can make a program to simulate this? I can help if you think that's a good idea.
– Levi Lesches
Nov 23 at 2:56
|
show 1 more comment
up vote
2
down vote
favorite
up vote
2
down vote
favorite
If I have $1$ mol of Cheerios, and I dump them on Earth, and they form even layers, how thick are all the layers (if there are any) after all are done? The height/thickness of each Cheerio is $.8$ cm, it’s radius is $1.27$ cm, the Earth’s radius is $6.371 times 10^6$ m. Assume each Cheerio has the same dimensions as listed above, and that the Earth is a perfect sphere (no bumps or grooves).
First thing I did was find the surface area of Earth, which is $5101times10^{14} m^2$. Then, assuming the base of the Cheerio is a circle, I found the area of the smallest box it could fit in, which is $6.45times10^{-14} m^2$. After that, I divided the surface area of the Earth by the area of the base of each Cheerio to see how many I need to layer it once. That number is $7.91times10^{20}$ Cheerios. To find how many layers I can have before I have $0$ Cheerios I set up the equation $(6.022times10^{23})-(7.91times10^{20}x)=0$, where $x$ is how many layers I can have. Because this has to be an integer, I get $761$ layers, meaning $6.09 m$ is the thickness of the layers.
geometry
If I have $1$ mol of Cheerios, and I dump them on Earth, and they form even layers, how thick are all the layers (if there are any) after all are done? The height/thickness of each Cheerio is $.8$ cm, it’s radius is $1.27$ cm, the Earth’s radius is $6.371 times 10^6$ m. Assume each Cheerio has the same dimensions as listed above, and that the Earth is a perfect sphere (no bumps or grooves).
First thing I did was find the surface area of Earth, which is $5101times10^{14} m^2$. Then, assuming the base of the Cheerio is a circle, I found the area of the smallest box it could fit in, which is $6.45times10^{-14} m^2$. After that, I divided the surface area of the Earth by the area of the base of each Cheerio to see how many I need to layer it once. That number is $7.91times10^{20}$ Cheerios. To find how many layers I can have before I have $0$ Cheerios I set up the equation $(6.022times10^{23})-(7.91times10^{20}x)=0$, where $x$ is how many layers I can have. Because this has to be an integer, I get $761$ layers, meaning $6.09 m$ is the thickness of the layers.
geometry
geometry
edited Nov 21 at 13:17
Jean-Claude Arbaut
14.8k63362
14.8k63362
asked Nov 21 at 12:27
Jon due
598
598
Welcome to MSE, you're most likely to get appropriate answers if you fully explain your question, and explain what you have already tried. Try editing your question to show this
– MRobinson
Nov 21 at 12:34
Are you familiar with hexagonal packing of circular disks? Because of the curvature of the Earth, it is not possible to maintain any such pattern perfectly, but you can assume it is approximately achieved over large patches of ground to get a few percent more Cheerios in each layer.
– David K
Nov 21 at 12:50
I’m not, but I can look into it. How would that make my estimate more accurate?
– Jon due
Nov 21 at 12:51
It depends on what you're trying to model. Are we randomly dumping the Cheerios? If so, you probably have larger gaps between your "squares" and you will have overestimated the number of Cheerios per layer. Or are we laying the Cheerios in semi-regular patterns to get as many as we can in each layer? If so, you want to choose an arrangement that puts as many Cheerios as you can in each square meter. Lining them up along a square grid gives you some number of Cheerios, but if you shift every other row 1.27 cm to the right you can put the rows closer together and fit a few more rows.
– David K
Nov 21 at 13:08
Maybe you can make a program to simulate this? I can help if you think that's a good idea.
– Levi Lesches
Nov 23 at 2:56
|
show 1 more comment
Welcome to MSE, you're most likely to get appropriate answers if you fully explain your question, and explain what you have already tried. Try editing your question to show this
– MRobinson
Nov 21 at 12:34
Are you familiar with hexagonal packing of circular disks? Because of the curvature of the Earth, it is not possible to maintain any such pattern perfectly, but you can assume it is approximately achieved over large patches of ground to get a few percent more Cheerios in each layer.
– David K
Nov 21 at 12:50
I’m not, but I can look into it. How would that make my estimate more accurate?
– Jon due
Nov 21 at 12:51
It depends on what you're trying to model. Are we randomly dumping the Cheerios? If so, you probably have larger gaps between your "squares" and you will have overestimated the number of Cheerios per layer. Or are we laying the Cheerios in semi-regular patterns to get as many as we can in each layer? If so, you want to choose an arrangement that puts as many Cheerios as you can in each square meter. Lining them up along a square grid gives you some number of Cheerios, but if you shift every other row 1.27 cm to the right you can put the rows closer together and fit a few more rows.
– David K
Nov 21 at 13:08
Maybe you can make a program to simulate this? I can help if you think that's a good idea.
– Levi Lesches
Nov 23 at 2:56
Welcome to MSE, you're most likely to get appropriate answers if you fully explain your question, and explain what you have already tried. Try editing your question to show this
– MRobinson
Nov 21 at 12:34
Welcome to MSE, you're most likely to get appropriate answers if you fully explain your question, and explain what you have already tried. Try editing your question to show this
– MRobinson
Nov 21 at 12:34
Are you familiar with hexagonal packing of circular disks? Because of the curvature of the Earth, it is not possible to maintain any such pattern perfectly, but you can assume it is approximately achieved over large patches of ground to get a few percent more Cheerios in each layer.
– David K
Nov 21 at 12:50
Are you familiar with hexagonal packing of circular disks? Because of the curvature of the Earth, it is not possible to maintain any such pattern perfectly, but you can assume it is approximately achieved over large patches of ground to get a few percent more Cheerios in each layer.
– David K
Nov 21 at 12:50
I’m not, but I can look into it. How would that make my estimate more accurate?
– Jon due
Nov 21 at 12:51
I’m not, but I can look into it. How would that make my estimate more accurate?
– Jon due
Nov 21 at 12:51
It depends on what you're trying to model. Are we randomly dumping the Cheerios? If so, you probably have larger gaps between your "squares" and you will have overestimated the number of Cheerios per layer. Or are we laying the Cheerios in semi-regular patterns to get as many as we can in each layer? If so, you want to choose an arrangement that puts as many Cheerios as you can in each square meter. Lining them up along a square grid gives you some number of Cheerios, but if you shift every other row 1.27 cm to the right you can put the rows closer together and fit a few more rows.
– David K
Nov 21 at 13:08
It depends on what you're trying to model. Are we randomly dumping the Cheerios? If so, you probably have larger gaps between your "squares" and you will have overestimated the number of Cheerios per layer. Or are we laying the Cheerios in semi-regular patterns to get as many as we can in each layer? If so, you want to choose an arrangement that puts as many Cheerios as you can in each square meter. Lining them up along a square grid gives you some number of Cheerios, but if you shift every other row 1.27 cm to the right you can put the rows closer together and fit a few more rows.
– David K
Nov 21 at 13:08
Maybe you can make a program to simulate this? I can help if you think that's a good idea.
– Levi Lesches
Nov 23 at 2:56
Maybe you can make a program to simulate this? I can help if you think that's a good idea.
– Levi Lesches
Nov 23 at 2:56
|
show 1 more comment
3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
up vote
1
down vote
accepted
I get the surface are of the Earth to be $4pi times 6.371 times 10 ^{6} = 5.101 times 10 ^{14}$. Then to simplify the fitting together of Cheerios, treat them as squares of side $1.27 times 2 = 2.54cm.$ The surface area of one Cheerio is therefore $(2.54 cm)^2 = 6.45cm^2 = 6.45 times 10 ^{-4} m^2$.
You can then fit $5.101 times 10 ^{14} div 6.45 times 10 ^{-4} = 7.91 times 10 ^{17}$ Cheerios in one layer. Notice that this is a factor of $10^3$ away from your estimation at this point. Then do the final calculation to arrive at a slightly adjusted answer.
It is worth noting that circles can be packed more efficiently than assuming them to be squares, and it may be worth considering this.
add a comment |
up vote
1
down vote
You can have lots of fun with a problem like this, depending on how you want to model it.
First of all, these are ridiculously large Cheerios. The real ones are about half that size, maybe a little less. But let's just use the original data.
Are we randomly dumping the Cheerios? If so, you probably have larger gaps between your "squares" and you will have overestimated the number of Cheerios per layer.
You could use probability to estimate the gaps and get a higher pile of Cheerios in the end.
Or maybe then try to model what happens if we shake the Earth gently in order to ensure that its "contents" will "settle in shipping". That could get complicated.
Or are we laying the Cheerios in semi-regular patterns to get as many as we can in each layer? If so, you want to choose an arrangement that puts as many Cheerios as you can in each square meter. Lining them up along a square grid gives you some number of Cheerios, but if you shift every other row $1.27 mathrm{cm}$ to the right you can put the rows closer together and fit a few more rows in the same square meter.
You can fit about $15.5%$ more Cheerios onto a single square meter this way.
In the following, however, I assume the square grid you assumed.
It appears that you omitted the decimal point when you wrote the area of the Earth as
$5101times10^{14} mathrm m^2.$
It should be approximately $5.101times10^{14} mathrm m^2$ instead.
And then you gave the area of the square as $6.45times10^{-14} mathrm m^2,$
whereas it's actually about $6.45times10^{-4} mathrm m^2.$
I'm guessing you used the correct value for the square but the wrong value for the sphere in your calculation, because
$$frac{5101times10^{14}}{6.45times10^{-4}} approx 7.91times 10^{20},$$
just as you wrote. But if you write the numerator correctly as $5.101times10^{14},$
the result is only $7.91times 10^{17}.$
Assuming all layers are the same, we get about $761000$ layers
(the quotient comes out to $761315$ rounded up to an integer, but it makes no sense to get $6$ significant digits when we dropped everything after the third digit in the input to this last calculation).
So now we have a thickness $6090 mathrm m.$
At this thickness you almost have to start worrying about the fact that the outer shell has a larger area than the inner shell and can fit more Cheerios.
But even better, let's consider the weight of a pile of Cheerios more than six kilometers deep.
I would expect all the Cheerios in most of the lower layers to be crushed to dust by the weight of the layers above. Once they're crushed, the layers get a lot thinner because the Cheerios dust can fill in all the gaps. (There's also a lot of extra volume inside the uncrushed Cheerios themselves.)
So now if you want to be a bit more realistic you can do some research into the material strength of Cheerios and the density of crushed and uncrushed Cheerios.
I'm sure General Mills has done this research, but they might not be sharing the results.
I wouldn't expect the Cheerios to resist, say a $10 m$ column above them, and when crushed, the height should reduce by a factor $10$ or so. This could be estimated from the weight and density of each item (inflated and crushed). That leaves several hundred meters, and the crucial parameter will be a crushing factor (to a lesser extent, the crushing height).
– Yves Daoust
Nov 21 at 13:48
add a comment |
up vote
1
down vote
My result:
The surface of the Cheerios being $pi r^2$, and the surface of the Earth $pi d^2$, assuming a filling factor $f$ (ratio of filled surface over total surface), one layer counts
$$ffrac{d^2}{r^2}$$ of them.
The total height is given by
$$mathcal Nhfrac{r^2}{fd^2}=6.02cdot 10^{23} 0.008 frac{0.0127^2}{dfrac{pisqrt3}6left(dfrac{4cdot10^7}{pi}right)^2}=5283,m.$$
IMO this is not large enough to justify a correction for the Earth curvature, given the uncertainty on the dimensions and the filling factor.
You'll probably need reinforced Cheerios to avoid slight crushing in the lower layers...
The Earth diameter should be $4cdot10^7/pi$, not $2pi$. Then, not taking $f$ into account, I would get $4786, mathrm{m}$.
– Jean-Claude Arbaut
Nov 21 at 13:30
1
@Jean-ClaudeArbaut: thanks for spotting the mistake (I was sure there would be one :-)). With the filling correction, our answers now match.
– Yves Daoust
Nov 21 at 13:37
add a comment |
3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
up vote
1
down vote
accepted
I get the surface are of the Earth to be $4pi times 6.371 times 10 ^{6} = 5.101 times 10 ^{14}$. Then to simplify the fitting together of Cheerios, treat them as squares of side $1.27 times 2 = 2.54cm.$ The surface area of one Cheerio is therefore $(2.54 cm)^2 = 6.45cm^2 = 6.45 times 10 ^{-4} m^2$.
You can then fit $5.101 times 10 ^{14} div 6.45 times 10 ^{-4} = 7.91 times 10 ^{17}$ Cheerios in one layer. Notice that this is a factor of $10^3$ away from your estimation at this point. Then do the final calculation to arrive at a slightly adjusted answer.
It is worth noting that circles can be packed more efficiently than assuming them to be squares, and it may be worth considering this.
add a comment |
up vote
1
down vote
accepted
I get the surface are of the Earth to be $4pi times 6.371 times 10 ^{6} = 5.101 times 10 ^{14}$. Then to simplify the fitting together of Cheerios, treat them as squares of side $1.27 times 2 = 2.54cm.$ The surface area of one Cheerio is therefore $(2.54 cm)^2 = 6.45cm^2 = 6.45 times 10 ^{-4} m^2$.
You can then fit $5.101 times 10 ^{14} div 6.45 times 10 ^{-4} = 7.91 times 10 ^{17}$ Cheerios in one layer. Notice that this is a factor of $10^3$ away from your estimation at this point. Then do the final calculation to arrive at a slightly adjusted answer.
It is worth noting that circles can be packed more efficiently than assuming them to be squares, and it may be worth considering this.
add a comment |
up vote
1
down vote
accepted
up vote
1
down vote
accepted
I get the surface are of the Earth to be $4pi times 6.371 times 10 ^{6} = 5.101 times 10 ^{14}$. Then to simplify the fitting together of Cheerios, treat them as squares of side $1.27 times 2 = 2.54cm.$ The surface area of one Cheerio is therefore $(2.54 cm)^2 = 6.45cm^2 = 6.45 times 10 ^{-4} m^2$.
You can then fit $5.101 times 10 ^{14} div 6.45 times 10 ^{-4} = 7.91 times 10 ^{17}$ Cheerios in one layer. Notice that this is a factor of $10^3$ away from your estimation at this point. Then do the final calculation to arrive at a slightly adjusted answer.
It is worth noting that circles can be packed more efficiently than assuming them to be squares, and it may be worth considering this.
I get the surface are of the Earth to be $4pi times 6.371 times 10 ^{6} = 5.101 times 10 ^{14}$. Then to simplify the fitting together of Cheerios, treat them as squares of side $1.27 times 2 = 2.54cm.$ The surface area of one Cheerio is therefore $(2.54 cm)^2 = 6.45cm^2 = 6.45 times 10 ^{-4} m^2$.
You can then fit $5.101 times 10 ^{14} div 6.45 times 10 ^{-4} = 7.91 times 10 ^{17}$ Cheerios in one layer. Notice that this is a factor of $10^3$ away from your estimation at this point. Then do the final calculation to arrive at a slightly adjusted answer.
It is worth noting that circles can be packed more efficiently than assuming them to be squares, and it may be worth considering this.
answered Nov 21 at 12:53
MRobinson
1,785319
1,785319
add a comment |
add a comment |
up vote
1
down vote
You can have lots of fun with a problem like this, depending on how you want to model it.
First of all, these are ridiculously large Cheerios. The real ones are about half that size, maybe a little less. But let's just use the original data.
Are we randomly dumping the Cheerios? If so, you probably have larger gaps between your "squares" and you will have overestimated the number of Cheerios per layer.
You could use probability to estimate the gaps and get a higher pile of Cheerios in the end.
Or maybe then try to model what happens if we shake the Earth gently in order to ensure that its "contents" will "settle in shipping". That could get complicated.
Or are we laying the Cheerios in semi-regular patterns to get as many as we can in each layer? If so, you want to choose an arrangement that puts as many Cheerios as you can in each square meter. Lining them up along a square grid gives you some number of Cheerios, but if you shift every other row $1.27 mathrm{cm}$ to the right you can put the rows closer together and fit a few more rows in the same square meter.
You can fit about $15.5%$ more Cheerios onto a single square meter this way.
In the following, however, I assume the square grid you assumed.
It appears that you omitted the decimal point when you wrote the area of the Earth as
$5101times10^{14} mathrm m^2.$
It should be approximately $5.101times10^{14} mathrm m^2$ instead.
And then you gave the area of the square as $6.45times10^{-14} mathrm m^2,$
whereas it's actually about $6.45times10^{-4} mathrm m^2.$
I'm guessing you used the correct value for the square but the wrong value for the sphere in your calculation, because
$$frac{5101times10^{14}}{6.45times10^{-4}} approx 7.91times 10^{20},$$
just as you wrote. But if you write the numerator correctly as $5.101times10^{14},$
the result is only $7.91times 10^{17}.$
Assuming all layers are the same, we get about $761000$ layers
(the quotient comes out to $761315$ rounded up to an integer, but it makes no sense to get $6$ significant digits when we dropped everything after the third digit in the input to this last calculation).
So now we have a thickness $6090 mathrm m.$
At this thickness you almost have to start worrying about the fact that the outer shell has a larger area than the inner shell and can fit more Cheerios.
But even better, let's consider the weight of a pile of Cheerios more than six kilometers deep.
I would expect all the Cheerios in most of the lower layers to be crushed to dust by the weight of the layers above. Once they're crushed, the layers get a lot thinner because the Cheerios dust can fill in all the gaps. (There's also a lot of extra volume inside the uncrushed Cheerios themselves.)
So now if you want to be a bit more realistic you can do some research into the material strength of Cheerios and the density of crushed and uncrushed Cheerios.
I'm sure General Mills has done this research, but they might not be sharing the results.
I wouldn't expect the Cheerios to resist, say a $10 m$ column above them, and when crushed, the height should reduce by a factor $10$ or so. This could be estimated from the weight and density of each item (inflated and crushed). That leaves several hundred meters, and the crucial parameter will be a crushing factor (to a lesser extent, the crushing height).
– Yves Daoust
Nov 21 at 13:48
add a comment |
up vote
1
down vote
You can have lots of fun with a problem like this, depending on how you want to model it.
First of all, these are ridiculously large Cheerios. The real ones are about half that size, maybe a little less. But let's just use the original data.
Are we randomly dumping the Cheerios? If so, you probably have larger gaps between your "squares" and you will have overestimated the number of Cheerios per layer.
You could use probability to estimate the gaps and get a higher pile of Cheerios in the end.
Or maybe then try to model what happens if we shake the Earth gently in order to ensure that its "contents" will "settle in shipping". That could get complicated.
Or are we laying the Cheerios in semi-regular patterns to get as many as we can in each layer? If so, you want to choose an arrangement that puts as many Cheerios as you can in each square meter. Lining them up along a square grid gives you some number of Cheerios, but if you shift every other row $1.27 mathrm{cm}$ to the right you can put the rows closer together and fit a few more rows in the same square meter.
You can fit about $15.5%$ more Cheerios onto a single square meter this way.
In the following, however, I assume the square grid you assumed.
It appears that you omitted the decimal point when you wrote the area of the Earth as
$5101times10^{14} mathrm m^2.$
It should be approximately $5.101times10^{14} mathrm m^2$ instead.
And then you gave the area of the square as $6.45times10^{-14} mathrm m^2,$
whereas it's actually about $6.45times10^{-4} mathrm m^2.$
I'm guessing you used the correct value for the square but the wrong value for the sphere in your calculation, because
$$frac{5101times10^{14}}{6.45times10^{-4}} approx 7.91times 10^{20},$$
just as you wrote. But if you write the numerator correctly as $5.101times10^{14},$
the result is only $7.91times 10^{17}.$
Assuming all layers are the same, we get about $761000$ layers
(the quotient comes out to $761315$ rounded up to an integer, but it makes no sense to get $6$ significant digits when we dropped everything after the third digit in the input to this last calculation).
So now we have a thickness $6090 mathrm m.$
At this thickness you almost have to start worrying about the fact that the outer shell has a larger area than the inner shell and can fit more Cheerios.
But even better, let's consider the weight of a pile of Cheerios more than six kilometers deep.
I would expect all the Cheerios in most of the lower layers to be crushed to dust by the weight of the layers above. Once they're crushed, the layers get a lot thinner because the Cheerios dust can fill in all the gaps. (There's also a lot of extra volume inside the uncrushed Cheerios themselves.)
So now if you want to be a bit more realistic you can do some research into the material strength of Cheerios and the density of crushed and uncrushed Cheerios.
I'm sure General Mills has done this research, but they might not be sharing the results.
I wouldn't expect the Cheerios to resist, say a $10 m$ column above them, and when crushed, the height should reduce by a factor $10$ or so. This could be estimated from the weight and density of each item (inflated and crushed). That leaves several hundred meters, and the crucial parameter will be a crushing factor (to a lesser extent, the crushing height).
– Yves Daoust
Nov 21 at 13:48
add a comment |
up vote
1
down vote
up vote
1
down vote
You can have lots of fun with a problem like this, depending on how you want to model it.
First of all, these are ridiculously large Cheerios. The real ones are about half that size, maybe a little less. But let's just use the original data.
Are we randomly dumping the Cheerios? If so, you probably have larger gaps between your "squares" and you will have overestimated the number of Cheerios per layer.
You could use probability to estimate the gaps and get a higher pile of Cheerios in the end.
Or maybe then try to model what happens if we shake the Earth gently in order to ensure that its "contents" will "settle in shipping". That could get complicated.
Or are we laying the Cheerios in semi-regular patterns to get as many as we can in each layer? If so, you want to choose an arrangement that puts as many Cheerios as you can in each square meter. Lining them up along a square grid gives you some number of Cheerios, but if you shift every other row $1.27 mathrm{cm}$ to the right you can put the rows closer together and fit a few more rows in the same square meter.
You can fit about $15.5%$ more Cheerios onto a single square meter this way.
In the following, however, I assume the square grid you assumed.
It appears that you omitted the decimal point when you wrote the area of the Earth as
$5101times10^{14} mathrm m^2.$
It should be approximately $5.101times10^{14} mathrm m^2$ instead.
And then you gave the area of the square as $6.45times10^{-14} mathrm m^2,$
whereas it's actually about $6.45times10^{-4} mathrm m^2.$
I'm guessing you used the correct value for the square but the wrong value for the sphere in your calculation, because
$$frac{5101times10^{14}}{6.45times10^{-4}} approx 7.91times 10^{20},$$
just as you wrote. But if you write the numerator correctly as $5.101times10^{14},$
the result is only $7.91times 10^{17}.$
Assuming all layers are the same, we get about $761000$ layers
(the quotient comes out to $761315$ rounded up to an integer, but it makes no sense to get $6$ significant digits when we dropped everything after the third digit in the input to this last calculation).
So now we have a thickness $6090 mathrm m.$
At this thickness you almost have to start worrying about the fact that the outer shell has a larger area than the inner shell and can fit more Cheerios.
But even better, let's consider the weight of a pile of Cheerios more than six kilometers deep.
I would expect all the Cheerios in most of the lower layers to be crushed to dust by the weight of the layers above. Once they're crushed, the layers get a lot thinner because the Cheerios dust can fill in all the gaps. (There's also a lot of extra volume inside the uncrushed Cheerios themselves.)
So now if you want to be a bit more realistic you can do some research into the material strength of Cheerios and the density of crushed and uncrushed Cheerios.
I'm sure General Mills has done this research, but they might not be sharing the results.
You can have lots of fun with a problem like this, depending on how you want to model it.
First of all, these are ridiculously large Cheerios. The real ones are about half that size, maybe a little less. But let's just use the original data.
Are we randomly dumping the Cheerios? If so, you probably have larger gaps between your "squares" and you will have overestimated the number of Cheerios per layer.
You could use probability to estimate the gaps and get a higher pile of Cheerios in the end.
Or maybe then try to model what happens if we shake the Earth gently in order to ensure that its "contents" will "settle in shipping". That could get complicated.
Or are we laying the Cheerios in semi-regular patterns to get as many as we can in each layer? If so, you want to choose an arrangement that puts as many Cheerios as you can in each square meter. Lining them up along a square grid gives you some number of Cheerios, but if you shift every other row $1.27 mathrm{cm}$ to the right you can put the rows closer together and fit a few more rows in the same square meter.
You can fit about $15.5%$ more Cheerios onto a single square meter this way.
In the following, however, I assume the square grid you assumed.
It appears that you omitted the decimal point when you wrote the area of the Earth as
$5101times10^{14} mathrm m^2.$
It should be approximately $5.101times10^{14} mathrm m^2$ instead.
And then you gave the area of the square as $6.45times10^{-14} mathrm m^2,$
whereas it's actually about $6.45times10^{-4} mathrm m^2.$
I'm guessing you used the correct value for the square but the wrong value for the sphere in your calculation, because
$$frac{5101times10^{14}}{6.45times10^{-4}} approx 7.91times 10^{20},$$
just as you wrote. But if you write the numerator correctly as $5.101times10^{14},$
the result is only $7.91times 10^{17}.$
Assuming all layers are the same, we get about $761000$ layers
(the quotient comes out to $761315$ rounded up to an integer, but it makes no sense to get $6$ significant digits when we dropped everything after the third digit in the input to this last calculation).
So now we have a thickness $6090 mathrm m.$
At this thickness you almost have to start worrying about the fact that the outer shell has a larger area than the inner shell and can fit more Cheerios.
But even better, let's consider the weight of a pile of Cheerios more than six kilometers deep.
I would expect all the Cheerios in most of the lower layers to be crushed to dust by the weight of the layers above. Once they're crushed, the layers get a lot thinner because the Cheerios dust can fill in all the gaps. (There's also a lot of extra volume inside the uncrushed Cheerios themselves.)
So now if you want to be a bit more realistic you can do some research into the material strength of Cheerios and the density of crushed and uncrushed Cheerios.
I'm sure General Mills has done this research, but they might not be sharing the results.
answered Nov 21 at 13:40
David K
51.3k340113
51.3k340113
I wouldn't expect the Cheerios to resist, say a $10 m$ column above them, and when crushed, the height should reduce by a factor $10$ or so. This could be estimated from the weight and density of each item (inflated and crushed). That leaves several hundred meters, and the crucial parameter will be a crushing factor (to a lesser extent, the crushing height).
– Yves Daoust
Nov 21 at 13:48
add a comment |
I wouldn't expect the Cheerios to resist, say a $10 m$ column above them, and when crushed, the height should reduce by a factor $10$ or so. This could be estimated from the weight and density of each item (inflated and crushed). That leaves several hundred meters, and the crucial parameter will be a crushing factor (to a lesser extent, the crushing height).
– Yves Daoust
Nov 21 at 13:48
I wouldn't expect the Cheerios to resist, say a $10 m$ column above them, and when crushed, the height should reduce by a factor $10$ or so. This could be estimated from the weight and density of each item (inflated and crushed). That leaves several hundred meters, and the crucial parameter will be a crushing factor (to a lesser extent, the crushing height).
– Yves Daoust
Nov 21 at 13:48
I wouldn't expect the Cheerios to resist, say a $10 m$ column above them, and when crushed, the height should reduce by a factor $10$ or so. This could be estimated from the weight and density of each item (inflated and crushed). That leaves several hundred meters, and the crucial parameter will be a crushing factor (to a lesser extent, the crushing height).
– Yves Daoust
Nov 21 at 13:48
add a comment |
up vote
1
down vote
My result:
The surface of the Cheerios being $pi r^2$, and the surface of the Earth $pi d^2$, assuming a filling factor $f$ (ratio of filled surface over total surface), one layer counts
$$ffrac{d^2}{r^2}$$ of them.
The total height is given by
$$mathcal Nhfrac{r^2}{fd^2}=6.02cdot 10^{23} 0.008 frac{0.0127^2}{dfrac{pisqrt3}6left(dfrac{4cdot10^7}{pi}right)^2}=5283,m.$$
IMO this is not large enough to justify a correction for the Earth curvature, given the uncertainty on the dimensions and the filling factor.
You'll probably need reinforced Cheerios to avoid slight crushing in the lower layers...
The Earth diameter should be $4cdot10^7/pi$, not $2pi$. Then, not taking $f$ into account, I would get $4786, mathrm{m}$.
– Jean-Claude Arbaut
Nov 21 at 13:30
1
@Jean-ClaudeArbaut: thanks for spotting the mistake (I was sure there would be one :-)). With the filling correction, our answers now match.
– Yves Daoust
Nov 21 at 13:37
add a comment |
up vote
1
down vote
My result:
The surface of the Cheerios being $pi r^2$, and the surface of the Earth $pi d^2$, assuming a filling factor $f$ (ratio of filled surface over total surface), one layer counts
$$ffrac{d^2}{r^2}$$ of them.
The total height is given by
$$mathcal Nhfrac{r^2}{fd^2}=6.02cdot 10^{23} 0.008 frac{0.0127^2}{dfrac{pisqrt3}6left(dfrac{4cdot10^7}{pi}right)^2}=5283,m.$$
IMO this is not large enough to justify a correction for the Earth curvature, given the uncertainty on the dimensions and the filling factor.
You'll probably need reinforced Cheerios to avoid slight crushing in the lower layers...
The Earth diameter should be $4cdot10^7/pi$, not $2pi$. Then, not taking $f$ into account, I would get $4786, mathrm{m}$.
– Jean-Claude Arbaut
Nov 21 at 13:30
1
@Jean-ClaudeArbaut: thanks for spotting the mistake (I was sure there would be one :-)). With the filling correction, our answers now match.
– Yves Daoust
Nov 21 at 13:37
add a comment |
up vote
1
down vote
up vote
1
down vote
My result:
The surface of the Cheerios being $pi r^2$, and the surface of the Earth $pi d^2$, assuming a filling factor $f$ (ratio of filled surface over total surface), one layer counts
$$ffrac{d^2}{r^2}$$ of them.
The total height is given by
$$mathcal Nhfrac{r^2}{fd^2}=6.02cdot 10^{23} 0.008 frac{0.0127^2}{dfrac{pisqrt3}6left(dfrac{4cdot10^7}{pi}right)^2}=5283,m.$$
IMO this is not large enough to justify a correction for the Earth curvature, given the uncertainty on the dimensions and the filling factor.
You'll probably need reinforced Cheerios to avoid slight crushing in the lower layers...
My result:
The surface of the Cheerios being $pi r^2$, and the surface of the Earth $pi d^2$, assuming a filling factor $f$ (ratio of filled surface over total surface), one layer counts
$$ffrac{d^2}{r^2}$$ of them.
The total height is given by
$$mathcal Nhfrac{r^2}{fd^2}=6.02cdot 10^{23} 0.008 frac{0.0127^2}{dfrac{pisqrt3}6left(dfrac{4cdot10^7}{pi}right)^2}=5283,m.$$
IMO this is not large enough to justify a correction for the Earth curvature, given the uncertainty on the dimensions and the filling factor.
You'll probably need reinforced Cheerios to avoid slight crushing in the lower layers...
edited Nov 21 at 13:42
answered Nov 21 at 13:24
Yves Daoust
122k668217
122k668217
The Earth diameter should be $4cdot10^7/pi$, not $2pi$. Then, not taking $f$ into account, I would get $4786, mathrm{m}$.
– Jean-Claude Arbaut
Nov 21 at 13:30
1
@Jean-ClaudeArbaut: thanks for spotting the mistake (I was sure there would be one :-)). With the filling correction, our answers now match.
– Yves Daoust
Nov 21 at 13:37
add a comment |
The Earth diameter should be $4cdot10^7/pi$, not $2pi$. Then, not taking $f$ into account, I would get $4786, mathrm{m}$.
– Jean-Claude Arbaut
Nov 21 at 13:30
1
@Jean-ClaudeArbaut: thanks for spotting the mistake (I was sure there would be one :-)). With the filling correction, our answers now match.
– Yves Daoust
Nov 21 at 13:37
The Earth diameter should be $4cdot10^7/pi$, not $2pi$. Then, not taking $f$ into account, I would get $4786, mathrm{m}$.
– Jean-Claude Arbaut
Nov 21 at 13:30
The Earth diameter should be $4cdot10^7/pi$, not $2pi$. Then, not taking $f$ into account, I would get $4786, mathrm{m}$.
– Jean-Claude Arbaut
Nov 21 at 13:30
1
1
@Jean-ClaudeArbaut: thanks for spotting the mistake (I was sure there would be one :-)). With the filling correction, our answers now match.
– Yves Daoust
Nov 21 at 13:37
@Jean-ClaudeArbaut: thanks for spotting the mistake (I was sure there would be one :-)). With the filling correction, our answers now match.
– Yves Daoust
Nov 21 at 13:37
add a comment |
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– MRobinson
Nov 21 at 12:34
Are you familiar with hexagonal packing of circular disks? Because of the curvature of the Earth, it is not possible to maintain any such pattern perfectly, but you can assume it is approximately achieved over large patches of ground to get a few percent more Cheerios in each layer.
– David K
Nov 21 at 12:50
I’m not, but I can look into it. How would that make my estimate more accurate?
– Jon due
Nov 21 at 12:51
It depends on what you're trying to model. Are we randomly dumping the Cheerios? If so, you probably have larger gaps between your "squares" and you will have overestimated the number of Cheerios per layer. Or are we laying the Cheerios in semi-regular patterns to get as many as we can in each layer? If so, you want to choose an arrangement that puts as many Cheerios as you can in each square meter. Lining them up along a square grid gives you some number of Cheerios, but if you shift every other row 1.27 cm to the right you can put the rows closer together and fit a few more rows.
– David K
Nov 21 at 13:08
Maybe you can make a program to simulate this? I can help if you think that's a good idea.
– Levi Lesches
Nov 23 at 2:56