Why isn't the the galois group of a polynomial with n distinct roots isomorphic to Sn?
If we consider the polynomial $f(x)=x^3-3x-1 in mathbb{Q}[x]$ which has 3 real roots ${x_1,x_2,x_3}$. I read that its galois group is isomorphic to $A_3$ and not to $S_3$. I don't really understand this.
If I consider the map (Here $E$ is the splitting field of $f$ over $mathbb{Q})$:
begin{align*}
sigma colon E to E\
x_1 mapsto x_2\
x_3 mapsto x_3\
mathbb{Q} mapsto mathbb{Q}
end{align*}
This would correspond to a transposition $(12)$ which is not in the alternating group.
But isn't this a $mathbb{Q}$-automorphism? I actually don't really grasp why the Galois group isn't in general isomorphic to Sn (for n distinct roots).
galois-theory
add a comment |
If we consider the polynomial $f(x)=x^3-3x-1 in mathbb{Q}[x]$ which has 3 real roots ${x_1,x_2,x_3}$. I read that its galois group is isomorphic to $A_3$ and not to $S_3$. I don't really understand this.
If I consider the map (Here $E$ is the splitting field of $f$ over $mathbb{Q})$:
begin{align*}
sigma colon E to E\
x_1 mapsto x_2\
x_3 mapsto x_3\
mathbb{Q} mapsto mathbb{Q}
end{align*}
This would correspond to a transposition $(12)$ which is not in the alternating group.
But isn't this a $mathbb{Q}$-automorphism? I actually don't really grasp why the Galois group isn't in general isomorphic to Sn (for n distinct roots).
galois-theory
1
What do you mean by $E$?
– Servaes
Nov 29 at 15:24
$E$ is the splitting field of $f$ over $mathbb{Q}$. Thanks for the comment, I edited.
– roi_saumon
Nov 29 at 15:41
3
There may be hidden relations among the roots. Your cubic is a case in point. If $r=x_1$ is one of the zeros, then the other zeros are $x_2=2-r^2$ and $x_3=r^2-r-2$. So the splitting field is $Bbb{Q}(r)$. If you know $sigma(x_1)=sigma(r)$ then $$sigma(x_2)=sigma(2-r^2)=2-sigma(r)^2$$ is uniquely determined. In other words, you cannot choose $sigma(x_1)$ and $sigma(x_2)$ independently from each other in the case of this polynomial. Looking at the discriminant as in Servaes' answer is a more common constraint, I simply wanted to shed more light to this.
– Jyrki Lahtonen
Nov 30 at 4:10
@JyrkiLahtonen Oh, I see, but how did you find this hidden relation?
– roi_saumon
Nov 30 at 11:09
The polynomial is kinda "famous". The zeros are $x_1=-2cos(2pi/9)$, $x_2=-2cos(4pi/9)$ and $x_3=-2cos(8pi/9)$. The implication $r$ is a root $implies$ $2-r^2$ is a root, is simple the double angle cosine formula $cos2alpha=2cos^2alpha-1$ in disguise. More generally, adjoining a single zero $r$ may allow us to factor the polynomial more than just splitting off a factor $x-r$ of $f(x)$, and such factorizations reduce the extension degree of the splitting field (and hence also the number of automorphisms).
– Jyrki Lahtonen
Nov 30 at 11:36
add a comment |
If we consider the polynomial $f(x)=x^3-3x-1 in mathbb{Q}[x]$ which has 3 real roots ${x_1,x_2,x_3}$. I read that its galois group is isomorphic to $A_3$ and not to $S_3$. I don't really understand this.
If I consider the map (Here $E$ is the splitting field of $f$ over $mathbb{Q})$:
begin{align*}
sigma colon E to E\
x_1 mapsto x_2\
x_3 mapsto x_3\
mathbb{Q} mapsto mathbb{Q}
end{align*}
This would correspond to a transposition $(12)$ which is not in the alternating group.
But isn't this a $mathbb{Q}$-automorphism? I actually don't really grasp why the Galois group isn't in general isomorphic to Sn (for n distinct roots).
galois-theory
If we consider the polynomial $f(x)=x^3-3x-1 in mathbb{Q}[x]$ which has 3 real roots ${x_1,x_2,x_3}$. I read that its galois group is isomorphic to $A_3$ and not to $S_3$. I don't really understand this.
If I consider the map (Here $E$ is the splitting field of $f$ over $mathbb{Q})$:
begin{align*}
sigma colon E to E\
x_1 mapsto x_2\
x_3 mapsto x_3\
mathbb{Q} mapsto mathbb{Q}
end{align*}
This would correspond to a transposition $(12)$ which is not in the alternating group.
But isn't this a $mathbb{Q}$-automorphism? I actually don't really grasp why the Galois group isn't in general isomorphic to Sn (for n distinct roots).
galois-theory
galois-theory
edited Nov 29 at 15:40
asked Nov 29 at 15:21
roi_saumon
38517
38517
1
What do you mean by $E$?
– Servaes
Nov 29 at 15:24
$E$ is the splitting field of $f$ over $mathbb{Q}$. Thanks for the comment, I edited.
– roi_saumon
Nov 29 at 15:41
3
There may be hidden relations among the roots. Your cubic is a case in point. If $r=x_1$ is one of the zeros, then the other zeros are $x_2=2-r^2$ and $x_3=r^2-r-2$. So the splitting field is $Bbb{Q}(r)$. If you know $sigma(x_1)=sigma(r)$ then $$sigma(x_2)=sigma(2-r^2)=2-sigma(r)^2$$ is uniquely determined. In other words, you cannot choose $sigma(x_1)$ and $sigma(x_2)$ independently from each other in the case of this polynomial. Looking at the discriminant as in Servaes' answer is a more common constraint, I simply wanted to shed more light to this.
– Jyrki Lahtonen
Nov 30 at 4:10
@JyrkiLahtonen Oh, I see, but how did you find this hidden relation?
– roi_saumon
Nov 30 at 11:09
The polynomial is kinda "famous". The zeros are $x_1=-2cos(2pi/9)$, $x_2=-2cos(4pi/9)$ and $x_3=-2cos(8pi/9)$. The implication $r$ is a root $implies$ $2-r^2$ is a root, is simple the double angle cosine formula $cos2alpha=2cos^2alpha-1$ in disguise. More generally, adjoining a single zero $r$ may allow us to factor the polynomial more than just splitting off a factor $x-r$ of $f(x)$, and such factorizations reduce the extension degree of the splitting field (and hence also the number of automorphisms).
– Jyrki Lahtonen
Nov 30 at 11:36
add a comment |
1
What do you mean by $E$?
– Servaes
Nov 29 at 15:24
$E$ is the splitting field of $f$ over $mathbb{Q}$. Thanks for the comment, I edited.
– roi_saumon
Nov 29 at 15:41
3
There may be hidden relations among the roots. Your cubic is a case in point. If $r=x_1$ is one of the zeros, then the other zeros are $x_2=2-r^2$ and $x_3=r^2-r-2$. So the splitting field is $Bbb{Q}(r)$. If you know $sigma(x_1)=sigma(r)$ then $$sigma(x_2)=sigma(2-r^2)=2-sigma(r)^2$$ is uniquely determined. In other words, you cannot choose $sigma(x_1)$ and $sigma(x_2)$ independently from each other in the case of this polynomial. Looking at the discriminant as in Servaes' answer is a more common constraint, I simply wanted to shed more light to this.
– Jyrki Lahtonen
Nov 30 at 4:10
@JyrkiLahtonen Oh, I see, but how did you find this hidden relation?
– roi_saumon
Nov 30 at 11:09
The polynomial is kinda "famous". The zeros are $x_1=-2cos(2pi/9)$, $x_2=-2cos(4pi/9)$ and $x_3=-2cos(8pi/9)$. The implication $r$ is a root $implies$ $2-r^2$ is a root, is simple the double angle cosine formula $cos2alpha=2cos^2alpha-1$ in disguise. More generally, adjoining a single zero $r$ may allow us to factor the polynomial more than just splitting off a factor $x-r$ of $f(x)$, and such factorizations reduce the extension degree of the splitting field (and hence also the number of automorphisms).
– Jyrki Lahtonen
Nov 30 at 11:36
1
1
What do you mean by $E$?
– Servaes
Nov 29 at 15:24
What do you mean by $E$?
– Servaes
Nov 29 at 15:24
$E$ is the splitting field of $f$ over $mathbb{Q}$. Thanks for the comment, I edited.
– roi_saumon
Nov 29 at 15:41
$E$ is the splitting field of $f$ over $mathbb{Q}$. Thanks for the comment, I edited.
– roi_saumon
Nov 29 at 15:41
3
3
There may be hidden relations among the roots. Your cubic is a case in point. If $r=x_1$ is one of the zeros, then the other zeros are $x_2=2-r^2$ and $x_3=r^2-r-2$. So the splitting field is $Bbb{Q}(r)$. If you know $sigma(x_1)=sigma(r)$ then $$sigma(x_2)=sigma(2-r^2)=2-sigma(r)^2$$ is uniquely determined. In other words, you cannot choose $sigma(x_1)$ and $sigma(x_2)$ independently from each other in the case of this polynomial. Looking at the discriminant as in Servaes' answer is a more common constraint, I simply wanted to shed more light to this.
– Jyrki Lahtonen
Nov 30 at 4:10
There may be hidden relations among the roots. Your cubic is a case in point. If $r=x_1$ is one of the zeros, then the other zeros are $x_2=2-r^2$ and $x_3=r^2-r-2$. So the splitting field is $Bbb{Q}(r)$. If you know $sigma(x_1)=sigma(r)$ then $$sigma(x_2)=sigma(2-r^2)=2-sigma(r)^2$$ is uniquely determined. In other words, you cannot choose $sigma(x_1)$ and $sigma(x_2)$ independently from each other in the case of this polynomial. Looking at the discriminant as in Servaes' answer is a more common constraint, I simply wanted to shed more light to this.
– Jyrki Lahtonen
Nov 30 at 4:10
@JyrkiLahtonen Oh, I see, but how did you find this hidden relation?
– roi_saumon
Nov 30 at 11:09
@JyrkiLahtonen Oh, I see, but how did you find this hidden relation?
– roi_saumon
Nov 30 at 11:09
The polynomial is kinda "famous". The zeros are $x_1=-2cos(2pi/9)$, $x_2=-2cos(4pi/9)$ and $x_3=-2cos(8pi/9)$. The implication $r$ is a root $implies$ $2-r^2$ is a root, is simple the double angle cosine formula $cos2alpha=2cos^2alpha-1$ in disguise. More generally, adjoining a single zero $r$ may allow us to factor the polynomial more than just splitting off a factor $x-r$ of $f(x)$, and such factorizations reduce the extension degree of the splitting field (and hence also the number of automorphisms).
– Jyrki Lahtonen
Nov 30 at 11:36
The polynomial is kinda "famous". The zeros are $x_1=-2cos(2pi/9)$, $x_2=-2cos(4pi/9)$ and $x_3=-2cos(8pi/9)$. The implication $r$ is a root $implies$ $2-r^2$ is a root, is simple the double angle cosine formula $cos2alpha=2cos^2alpha-1$ in disguise. More generally, adjoining a single zero $r$ may allow us to factor the polynomial more than just splitting off a factor $x-r$ of $f(x)$, and such factorizations reduce the extension degree of the splitting field (and hence also the number of automorphisms).
– Jyrki Lahtonen
Nov 30 at 11:36
add a comment |
1 Answer
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TL;DR The element $(x_1-x_2)(x_1-x_3)(x_2-x_3)$ is contained in $Bbb{Q}$ but not fixed by $sigma$.
The following theorem tells us when the Galois group of a polynomial over $Bbb{Q}$ is contained in $A_n$:
Let $finBbb{Q}[x]$ be irreducible of degree $n$, and let $E$ be a splitting field of $f$. Identify $operatorname{Gal}(E/Bbb{Q})$ with a subgroup of $S_n$ by enumerating the roots of $f$ in $E$. If $Delta(f)inBbb{Q}$ is a square in $Bbb{Q}$ then $operatorname{Gal}(E/Bbb{Q})$ is contained in $A_n$.
The proof shows in particular why your map is not a field automorphism of $E$:
Let $x_1,ldots,x_nin E$ be the roots of $f$ and let $S_n$ act on $E$ by its action on the indices of the roots, i.e. $sigma(x_i):=x_{sigma(i)}$ for all $i$. Consider the element
$$delta:=prod_{1leq i<jleq n}(x_i-x_j)in E.$$
Note that for all $sigmain S_n$ we have $sigma(delta)=operatorname{sgn}(sigma)delta$ and that $delta^2=Delta(f)$.
If $Delta(f)$ is a square in $Bbb{Q}$ then it $deltainBbb{Q}$. It follows that $sigma(delta)=delta$ for all $sigmainoperatorname{Gal}(EBbb{Q})$ and hence that $operatorname{sgn}(sigma)=1$ for all $sigmainoperatorname{Gal}(EBbb{Q})$. This means precisely that $operatorname{Gal}(EBbb{Q})$ is contained in $A_n$.
In this particular case we see that $Delta(x^3-3x-1)=81$, so the element
$$delta=(x_1-x_2)(x_1-x_3)(x_2-x_3)=pm9,$$
is not fixed by your map $sigma$, so $sigma$ cannot be a field automorphism of $E$.
add a comment |
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TL;DR The element $(x_1-x_2)(x_1-x_3)(x_2-x_3)$ is contained in $Bbb{Q}$ but not fixed by $sigma$.
The following theorem tells us when the Galois group of a polynomial over $Bbb{Q}$ is contained in $A_n$:
Let $finBbb{Q}[x]$ be irreducible of degree $n$, and let $E$ be a splitting field of $f$. Identify $operatorname{Gal}(E/Bbb{Q})$ with a subgroup of $S_n$ by enumerating the roots of $f$ in $E$. If $Delta(f)inBbb{Q}$ is a square in $Bbb{Q}$ then $operatorname{Gal}(E/Bbb{Q})$ is contained in $A_n$.
The proof shows in particular why your map is not a field automorphism of $E$:
Let $x_1,ldots,x_nin E$ be the roots of $f$ and let $S_n$ act on $E$ by its action on the indices of the roots, i.e. $sigma(x_i):=x_{sigma(i)}$ for all $i$. Consider the element
$$delta:=prod_{1leq i<jleq n}(x_i-x_j)in E.$$
Note that for all $sigmain S_n$ we have $sigma(delta)=operatorname{sgn}(sigma)delta$ and that $delta^2=Delta(f)$.
If $Delta(f)$ is a square in $Bbb{Q}$ then it $deltainBbb{Q}$. It follows that $sigma(delta)=delta$ for all $sigmainoperatorname{Gal}(EBbb{Q})$ and hence that $operatorname{sgn}(sigma)=1$ for all $sigmainoperatorname{Gal}(EBbb{Q})$. This means precisely that $operatorname{Gal}(EBbb{Q})$ is contained in $A_n$.
In this particular case we see that $Delta(x^3-3x-1)=81$, so the element
$$delta=(x_1-x_2)(x_1-x_3)(x_2-x_3)=pm9,$$
is not fixed by your map $sigma$, so $sigma$ cannot be a field automorphism of $E$.
add a comment |
TL;DR The element $(x_1-x_2)(x_1-x_3)(x_2-x_3)$ is contained in $Bbb{Q}$ but not fixed by $sigma$.
The following theorem tells us when the Galois group of a polynomial over $Bbb{Q}$ is contained in $A_n$:
Let $finBbb{Q}[x]$ be irreducible of degree $n$, and let $E$ be a splitting field of $f$. Identify $operatorname{Gal}(E/Bbb{Q})$ with a subgroup of $S_n$ by enumerating the roots of $f$ in $E$. If $Delta(f)inBbb{Q}$ is a square in $Bbb{Q}$ then $operatorname{Gal}(E/Bbb{Q})$ is contained in $A_n$.
The proof shows in particular why your map is not a field automorphism of $E$:
Let $x_1,ldots,x_nin E$ be the roots of $f$ and let $S_n$ act on $E$ by its action on the indices of the roots, i.e. $sigma(x_i):=x_{sigma(i)}$ for all $i$. Consider the element
$$delta:=prod_{1leq i<jleq n}(x_i-x_j)in E.$$
Note that for all $sigmain S_n$ we have $sigma(delta)=operatorname{sgn}(sigma)delta$ and that $delta^2=Delta(f)$.
If $Delta(f)$ is a square in $Bbb{Q}$ then it $deltainBbb{Q}$. It follows that $sigma(delta)=delta$ for all $sigmainoperatorname{Gal}(EBbb{Q})$ and hence that $operatorname{sgn}(sigma)=1$ for all $sigmainoperatorname{Gal}(EBbb{Q})$. This means precisely that $operatorname{Gal}(EBbb{Q})$ is contained in $A_n$.
In this particular case we see that $Delta(x^3-3x-1)=81$, so the element
$$delta=(x_1-x_2)(x_1-x_3)(x_2-x_3)=pm9,$$
is not fixed by your map $sigma$, so $sigma$ cannot be a field automorphism of $E$.
add a comment |
TL;DR The element $(x_1-x_2)(x_1-x_3)(x_2-x_3)$ is contained in $Bbb{Q}$ but not fixed by $sigma$.
The following theorem tells us when the Galois group of a polynomial over $Bbb{Q}$ is contained in $A_n$:
Let $finBbb{Q}[x]$ be irreducible of degree $n$, and let $E$ be a splitting field of $f$. Identify $operatorname{Gal}(E/Bbb{Q})$ with a subgroup of $S_n$ by enumerating the roots of $f$ in $E$. If $Delta(f)inBbb{Q}$ is a square in $Bbb{Q}$ then $operatorname{Gal}(E/Bbb{Q})$ is contained in $A_n$.
The proof shows in particular why your map is not a field automorphism of $E$:
Let $x_1,ldots,x_nin E$ be the roots of $f$ and let $S_n$ act on $E$ by its action on the indices of the roots, i.e. $sigma(x_i):=x_{sigma(i)}$ for all $i$. Consider the element
$$delta:=prod_{1leq i<jleq n}(x_i-x_j)in E.$$
Note that for all $sigmain S_n$ we have $sigma(delta)=operatorname{sgn}(sigma)delta$ and that $delta^2=Delta(f)$.
If $Delta(f)$ is a square in $Bbb{Q}$ then it $deltainBbb{Q}$. It follows that $sigma(delta)=delta$ for all $sigmainoperatorname{Gal}(EBbb{Q})$ and hence that $operatorname{sgn}(sigma)=1$ for all $sigmainoperatorname{Gal}(EBbb{Q})$. This means precisely that $operatorname{Gal}(EBbb{Q})$ is contained in $A_n$.
In this particular case we see that $Delta(x^3-3x-1)=81$, so the element
$$delta=(x_1-x_2)(x_1-x_3)(x_2-x_3)=pm9,$$
is not fixed by your map $sigma$, so $sigma$ cannot be a field automorphism of $E$.
TL;DR The element $(x_1-x_2)(x_1-x_3)(x_2-x_3)$ is contained in $Bbb{Q}$ but not fixed by $sigma$.
The following theorem tells us when the Galois group of a polynomial over $Bbb{Q}$ is contained in $A_n$:
Let $finBbb{Q}[x]$ be irreducible of degree $n$, and let $E$ be a splitting field of $f$. Identify $operatorname{Gal}(E/Bbb{Q})$ with a subgroup of $S_n$ by enumerating the roots of $f$ in $E$. If $Delta(f)inBbb{Q}$ is a square in $Bbb{Q}$ then $operatorname{Gal}(E/Bbb{Q})$ is contained in $A_n$.
The proof shows in particular why your map is not a field automorphism of $E$:
Let $x_1,ldots,x_nin E$ be the roots of $f$ and let $S_n$ act on $E$ by its action on the indices of the roots, i.e. $sigma(x_i):=x_{sigma(i)}$ for all $i$. Consider the element
$$delta:=prod_{1leq i<jleq n}(x_i-x_j)in E.$$
Note that for all $sigmain S_n$ we have $sigma(delta)=operatorname{sgn}(sigma)delta$ and that $delta^2=Delta(f)$.
If $Delta(f)$ is a square in $Bbb{Q}$ then it $deltainBbb{Q}$. It follows that $sigma(delta)=delta$ for all $sigmainoperatorname{Gal}(EBbb{Q})$ and hence that $operatorname{sgn}(sigma)=1$ for all $sigmainoperatorname{Gal}(EBbb{Q})$. This means precisely that $operatorname{Gal}(EBbb{Q})$ is contained in $A_n$.
In this particular case we see that $Delta(x^3-3x-1)=81$, so the element
$$delta=(x_1-x_2)(x_1-x_3)(x_2-x_3)=pm9,$$
is not fixed by your map $sigma$, so $sigma$ cannot be a field automorphism of $E$.
edited Nov 29 at 16:17
answered Nov 29 at 15:56
Servaes
22.3k33793
22.3k33793
add a comment |
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What do you mean by $E$?
– Servaes
Nov 29 at 15:24
$E$ is the splitting field of $f$ over $mathbb{Q}$. Thanks for the comment, I edited.
– roi_saumon
Nov 29 at 15:41
3
There may be hidden relations among the roots. Your cubic is a case in point. If $r=x_1$ is one of the zeros, then the other zeros are $x_2=2-r^2$ and $x_3=r^2-r-2$. So the splitting field is $Bbb{Q}(r)$. If you know $sigma(x_1)=sigma(r)$ then $$sigma(x_2)=sigma(2-r^2)=2-sigma(r)^2$$ is uniquely determined. In other words, you cannot choose $sigma(x_1)$ and $sigma(x_2)$ independently from each other in the case of this polynomial. Looking at the discriminant as in Servaes' answer is a more common constraint, I simply wanted to shed more light to this.
– Jyrki Lahtonen
Nov 30 at 4:10
@JyrkiLahtonen Oh, I see, but how did you find this hidden relation?
– roi_saumon
Nov 30 at 11:09
The polynomial is kinda "famous". The zeros are $x_1=-2cos(2pi/9)$, $x_2=-2cos(4pi/9)$ and $x_3=-2cos(8pi/9)$. The implication $r$ is a root $implies$ $2-r^2$ is a root, is simple the double angle cosine formula $cos2alpha=2cos^2alpha-1$ in disguise. More generally, adjoining a single zero $r$ may allow us to factor the polynomial more than just splitting off a factor $x-r$ of $f(x)$, and such factorizations reduce the extension degree of the splitting field (and hence also the number of automorphisms).
– Jyrki Lahtonen
Nov 30 at 11:36