Geometry sangaku puzzle, incribed circle circle/triangle/square











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Hello
I am trying to solve a geometry puzzle, its been 30 years since I was in school and I struggled with maths! I would love to get some help to find out what the radius of the bigger circle is if the radius of the smaller circle "乙" is 3.06. Are you clever enough to figure this one out? What formula do you need? What is the radius? Laura
enter image description here










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  • Welcome to MSE. Please give more details regarding the problem(measurements)...how did you get 3.06?
    – Of course it's not me
    Mar 7 at 17:25






  • 2




    @Ofcourseit'snotme It's in the picture " 三. O六" is 3.06 in kanji characters in japanese. (at least the 三 and 六 are).
    – achille hui
    Mar 7 at 18:07















up vote
4
down vote

favorite
1












enter image description here



Hello
I am trying to solve a geometry puzzle, its been 30 years since I was in school and I struggled with maths! I would love to get some help to find out what the radius of the bigger circle is if the radius of the smaller circle "乙" is 3.06. Are you clever enough to figure this one out? What formula do you need? What is the radius? Laura
enter image description here










share|cite|improve this question
























  • Welcome to MSE. Please give more details regarding the problem(measurements)...how did you get 3.06?
    – Of course it's not me
    Mar 7 at 17:25






  • 2




    @Ofcourseit'snotme It's in the picture " 三. O六" is 3.06 in kanji characters in japanese. (at least the 三 and 六 are).
    – achille hui
    Mar 7 at 18:07













up vote
4
down vote

favorite
1









up vote
4
down vote

favorite
1






1





enter image description here



Hello
I am trying to solve a geometry puzzle, its been 30 years since I was in school and I struggled with maths! I would love to get some help to find out what the radius of the bigger circle is if the radius of the smaller circle "乙" is 3.06. Are you clever enough to figure this one out? What formula do you need? What is the radius? Laura
enter image description here










share|cite|improve this question















enter image description here



Hello
I am trying to solve a geometry puzzle, its been 30 years since I was in school and I struggled with maths! I would love to get some help to find out what the radius of the bigger circle is if the radius of the smaller circle "乙" is 3.06. Are you clever enough to figure this one out? What formula do you need? What is the radius? Laura
enter image description here







geometry euclidean-geometry circle sangaku






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edited Nov 22 at 21:02









Jean-Claude Arbaut

14.6k63363




14.6k63363










asked Mar 7 at 17:20









Laura Ready

234




234












  • Welcome to MSE. Please give more details regarding the problem(measurements)...how did you get 3.06?
    – Of course it's not me
    Mar 7 at 17:25






  • 2




    @Ofcourseit'snotme It's in the picture " 三. O六" is 3.06 in kanji characters in japanese. (at least the 三 and 六 are).
    – achille hui
    Mar 7 at 18:07


















  • Welcome to MSE. Please give more details regarding the problem(measurements)...how did you get 3.06?
    – Of course it's not me
    Mar 7 at 17:25






  • 2




    @Ofcourseit'snotme It's in the picture " 三. O六" is 3.06 in kanji characters in japanese. (at least the 三 and 六 are).
    – achille hui
    Mar 7 at 18:07
















Welcome to MSE. Please give more details regarding the problem(measurements)...how did you get 3.06?
– Of course it's not me
Mar 7 at 17:25




Welcome to MSE. Please give more details regarding the problem(measurements)...how did you get 3.06?
– Of course it's not me
Mar 7 at 17:25




2




2




@Ofcourseit'snotme It's in the picture " 三. O六" is 3.06 in kanji characters in japanese. (at least the 三 and 六 are).
– achille hui
Mar 7 at 18:07




@Ofcourseit'snotme It's in the picture " 三. O六" is 3.06 in kanji characters in japanese. (at least the 三 and 六 are).
– achille hui
Mar 7 at 18:07










3 Answers
3






active

oldest

votes

















up vote
4
down vote



accepted










Better answer.



enter image description here
$$q = 2 p sqrt{2} qquadstackrel{p=3.06}{to}qquad q approx 8.65$$





Previous answer.



enter image description here



$$q = 2 r - r sqrt{2} = sqrt{2}left( sqrt{2} r - r right) = sqrt{2}cdot 2 p quadtoquad q = 2 p sqrt{2} quadstackrel{p=3.06}{to}quad q approx 8.65$$






share|cite|improve this answer



















  • 1




    Thanks so much for your help! Amazing stuff!
    – Laura Ready
    Mar 8 at 7:49












  • @LauraReady: I'm glad to help. By the way ... The way to say "Thank you" on this site is to upvote an answer. (Click the up arrow on the left.) This awards the answerer some reputation points. If/when a particular response has completely answered your question, you should also "accept" it. (Click the checkmark.) This awards the answerer even more points, but also marks the question as "answered" so that it doesn't get reposted by the system in the future.
    – Blue
    Mar 8 at 10:21


















up vote
0
down vote













Lets call the radius of the big circle $R.$



The diagonal of the green square is the diameter of the circle. $2R$



We can find the side length by the pythagorean theorem.



$s^2 + s^2 = (2R)^2\
2s^2 = 4r^2\
s = sqrt 2 R$



The distance from the center of the big circle then to the side is $frac 12$ the side length $frac {sqrt 2}{2} R$



The shortest distance from the center of the circle to the side of the green square (and the edge of circle Z) is $sqrt frac {1}{2} R$



And the diameter of the blue circle Z is the radius of the big circle less this distance to the edge of the square. $(1-frac {sqrt 2}{2}) R$



We are almost there.



$2Z = (1-frac {sqrt 2}{2})R\
R = frac {2}{1-frac {sqrt 2}{2}} Z$



We can do some prettying up first, or we can jam it through the calculator like it is. I am not sure I want to walk through the steps to do the simplification.



But you would get.



$R = (4 + 2sqrt 2) Z\
R = 6.83cdot 3.06 = 20.89$






share|cite|improve this answer





















  • WOW- amazing, thanks so much! Thats fantastic!
    – Laura Ready
    Mar 8 at 7:47


















up vote
0
down vote













If $x$ is the radius of the small blue circle and $y$ the radius of the bigger red circle, then $y = sqrt 8 cdot x$.



To see this, denote with $a$ and $d$ the side length and the length of the diagonal of the green square respectively. By Pythagoras theorem $$d = sqrt{2}a.$$



Note that $d$ is also the diameter of the biggest circle. Since this fits exactly two small circles of radius $2x$ next to the square we have
$$
4x+a=d
$$
and thus $$x=(d-a)/4 = (sqrt 2 -1 )/4 cdot a $$
Now consider five points $C$,$P$, $Q$ and $A$ and $B$ in the plane:




  • $C$ is the centre of the red circle


  • $P$ is the point where the red circle touches the diagonal of the green square


  • $Q$ is the point where the red circle touches the right side of the green square

  • $A$ is the upper right corner of the green square

  • $B$ is the lower right corner of the green square


The triangles $PCA$ and $QCA$ are similar because they share same angles, thus also their side lengths coincide, i.p.
$$d/2 =vert PAvert = vert QAvert$$
The triangle $CQB$ has a right angle at $Q$ and a $45$°-angle at $B$, thus it is isosceles, i.e
$$
y = vert QC vert=vert QB vert
$$

Moreover
$$ vert AQ vert + vert QB vert = a.$$
Combining the three last equations yields:
$$ y = a - d/2 = (1-1/sqrt 2)cdot a.$$
Compare the two equations for $x$ and $y$ to see that
$$
y = 4 cdot frac{1-1/sqrt{2}}{sqrt 2 -1} cdot x = sqrt 8 cdot x
$$






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  • Thanks so much for all that work
    – Laura Ready
    Mar 8 at 7:49











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3 Answers
3






active

oldest

votes








3 Answers
3






active

oldest

votes









active

oldest

votes






active

oldest

votes








up vote
4
down vote



accepted










Better answer.



enter image description here
$$q = 2 p sqrt{2} qquadstackrel{p=3.06}{to}qquad q approx 8.65$$





Previous answer.



enter image description here



$$q = 2 r - r sqrt{2} = sqrt{2}left( sqrt{2} r - r right) = sqrt{2}cdot 2 p quadtoquad q = 2 p sqrt{2} quadstackrel{p=3.06}{to}quad q approx 8.65$$






share|cite|improve this answer



















  • 1




    Thanks so much for your help! Amazing stuff!
    – Laura Ready
    Mar 8 at 7:49












  • @LauraReady: I'm glad to help. By the way ... The way to say "Thank you" on this site is to upvote an answer. (Click the up arrow on the left.) This awards the answerer some reputation points. If/when a particular response has completely answered your question, you should also "accept" it. (Click the checkmark.) This awards the answerer even more points, but also marks the question as "answered" so that it doesn't get reposted by the system in the future.
    – Blue
    Mar 8 at 10:21















up vote
4
down vote



accepted










Better answer.



enter image description here
$$q = 2 p sqrt{2} qquadstackrel{p=3.06}{to}qquad q approx 8.65$$





Previous answer.



enter image description here



$$q = 2 r - r sqrt{2} = sqrt{2}left( sqrt{2} r - r right) = sqrt{2}cdot 2 p quadtoquad q = 2 p sqrt{2} quadstackrel{p=3.06}{to}quad q approx 8.65$$






share|cite|improve this answer



















  • 1




    Thanks so much for your help! Amazing stuff!
    – Laura Ready
    Mar 8 at 7:49












  • @LauraReady: I'm glad to help. By the way ... The way to say "Thank you" on this site is to upvote an answer. (Click the up arrow on the left.) This awards the answerer some reputation points. If/when a particular response has completely answered your question, you should also "accept" it. (Click the checkmark.) This awards the answerer even more points, but also marks the question as "answered" so that it doesn't get reposted by the system in the future.
    – Blue
    Mar 8 at 10:21













up vote
4
down vote



accepted







up vote
4
down vote



accepted






Better answer.



enter image description here
$$q = 2 p sqrt{2} qquadstackrel{p=3.06}{to}qquad q approx 8.65$$





Previous answer.



enter image description here



$$q = 2 r - r sqrt{2} = sqrt{2}left( sqrt{2} r - r right) = sqrt{2}cdot 2 p quadtoquad q = 2 p sqrt{2} quadstackrel{p=3.06}{to}quad q approx 8.65$$






share|cite|improve this answer














Better answer.



enter image description here
$$q = 2 p sqrt{2} qquadstackrel{p=3.06}{to}qquad q approx 8.65$$





Previous answer.



enter image description here



$$q = 2 r - r sqrt{2} = sqrt{2}left( sqrt{2} r - r right) = sqrt{2}cdot 2 p quadtoquad q = 2 p sqrt{2} quadstackrel{p=3.06}{to}quad q approx 8.65$$







share|cite|improve this answer














share|cite|improve this answer



share|cite|improve this answer








edited Mar 8 at 4:35

























answered Mar 7 at 23:28









Blue

47k870148




47k870148








  • 1




    Thanks so much for your help! Amazing stuff!
    – Laura Ready
    Mar 8 at 7:49












  • @LauraReady: I'm glad to help. By the way ... The way to say "Thank you" on this site is to upvote an answer. (Click the up arrow on the left.) This awards the answerer some reputation points. If/when a particular response has completely answered your question, you should also "accept" it. (Click the checkmark.) This awards the answerer even more points, but also marks the question as "answered" so that it doesn't get reposted by the system in the future.
    – Blue
    Mar 8 at 10:21














  • 1




    Thanks so much for your help! Amazing stuff!
    – Laura Ready
    Mar 8 at 7:49












  • @LauraReady: I'm glad to help. By the way ... The way to say "Thank you" on this site is to upvote an answer. (Click the up arrow on the left.) This awards the answerer some reputation points. If/when a particular response has completely answered your question, you should also "accept" it. (Click the checkmark.) This awards the answerer even more points, but also marks the question as "answered" so that it doesn't get reposted by the system in the future.
    – Blue
    Mar 8 at 10:21








1




1




Thanks so much for your help! Amazing stuff!
– Laura Ready
Mar 8 at 7:49






Thanks so much for your help! Amazing stuff!
– Laura Ready
Mar 8 at 7:49














@LauraReady: I'm glad to help. By the way ... The way to say "Thank you" on this site is to upvote an answer. (Click the up arrow on the left.) This awards the answerer some reputation points. If/when a particular response has completely answered your question, you should also "accept" it. (Click the checkmark.) This awards the answerer even more points, but also marks the question as "answered" so that it doesn't get reposted by the system in the future.
– Blue
Mar 8 at 10:21




@LauraReady: I'm glad to help. By the way ... The way to say "Thank you" on this site is to upvote an answer. (Click the up arrow on the left.) This awards the answerer some reputation points. If/when a particular response has completely answered your question, you should also "accept" it. (Click the checkmark.) This awards the answerer even more points, but also marks the question as "answered" so that it doesn't get reposted by the system in the future.
– Blue
Mar 8 at 10:21










up vote
0
down vote













Lets call the radius of the big circle $R.$



The diagonal of the green square is the diameter of the circle. $2R$



We can find the side length by the pythagorean theorem.



$s^2 + s^2 = (2R)^2\
2s^2 = 4r^2\
s = sqrt 2 R$



The distance from the center of the big circle then to the side is $frac 12$ the side length $frac {sqrt 2}{2} R$



The shortest distance from the center of the circle to the side of the green square (and the edge of circle Z) is $sqrt frac {1}{2} R$



And the diameter of the blue circle Z is the radius of the big circle less this distance to the edge of the square. $(1-frac {sqrt 2}{2}) R$



We are almost there.



$2Z = (1-frac {sqrt 2}{2})R\
R = frac {2}{1-frac {sqrt 2}{2}} Z$



We can do some prettying up first, or we can jam it through the calculator like it is. I am not sure I want to walk through the steps to do the simplification.



But you would get.



$R = (4 + 2sqrt 2) Z\
R = 6.83cdot 3.06 = 20.89$






share|cite|improve this answer





















  • WOW- amazing, thanks so much! Thats fantastic!
    – Laura Ready
    Mar 8 at 7:47















up vote
0
down vote













Lets call the radius of the big circle $R.$



The diagonal of the green square is the diameter of the circle. $2R$



We can find the side length by the pythagorean theorem.



$s^2 + s^2 = (2R)^2\
2s^2 = 4r^2\
s = sqrt 2 R$



The distance from the center of the big circle then to the side is $frac 12$ the side length $frac {sqrt 2}{2} R$



The shortest distance from the center of the circle to the side of the green square (and the edge of circle Z) is $sqrt frac {1}{2} R$



And the diameter of the blue circle Z is the radius of the big circle less this distance to the edge of the square. $(1-frac {sqrt 2}{2}) R$



We are almost there.



$2Z = (1-frac {sqrt 2}{2})R\
R = frac {2}{1-frac {sqrt 2}{2}} Z$



We can do some prettying up first, or we can jam it through the calculator like it is. I am not sure I want to walk through the steps to do the simplification.



But you would get.



$R = (4 + 2sqrt 2) Z\
R = 6.83cdot 3.06 = 20.89$






share|cite|improve this answer





















  • WOW- amazing, thanks so much! Thats fantastic!
    – Laura Ready
    Mar 8 at 7:47













up vote
0
down vote










up vote
0
down vote









Lets call the radius of the big circle $R.$



The diagonal of the green square is the diameter of the circle. $2R$



We can find the side length by the pythagorean theorem.



$s^2 + s^2 = (2R)^2\
2s^2 = 4r^2\
s = sqrt 2 R$



The distance from the center of the big circle then to the side is $frac 12$ the side length $frac {sqrt 2}{2} R$



The shortest distance from the center of the circle to the side of the green square (and the edge of circle Z) is $sqrt frac {1}{2} R$



And the diameter of the blue circle Z is the radius of the big circle less this distance to the edge of the square. $(1-frac {sqrt 2}{2}) R$



We are almost there.



$2Z = (1-frac {sqrt 2}{2})R\
R = frac {2}{1-frac {sqrt 2}{2}} Z$



We can do some prettying up first, or we can jam it through the calculator like it is. I am not sure I want to walk through the steps to do the simplification.



But you would get.



$R = (4 + 2sqrt 2) Z\
R = 6.83cdot 3.06 = 20.89$






share|cite|improve this answer












Lets call the radius of the big circle $R.$



The diagonal of the green square is the diameter of the circle. $2R$



We can find the side length by the pythagorean theorem.



$s^2 + s^2 = (2R)^2\
2s^2 = 4r^2\
s = sqrt 2 R$



The distance from the center of the big circle then to the side is $frac 12$ the side length $frac {sqrt 2}{2} R$



The shortest distance from the center of the circle to the side of the green square (and the edge of circle Z) is $sqrt frac {1}{2} R$



And the diameter of the blue circle Z is the radius of the big circle less this distance to the edge of the square. $(1-frac {sqrt 2}{2}) R$



We are almost there.



$2Z = (1-frac {sqrt 2}{2})R\
R = frac {2}{1-frac {sqrt 2}{2}} Z$



We can do some prettying up first, or we can jam it through the calculator like it is. I am not sure I want to walk through the steps to do the simplification.



But you would get.



$R = (4 + 2sqrt 2) Z\
R = 6.83cdot 3.06 = 20.89$







share|cite|improve this answer












share|cite|improve this answer



share|cite|improve this answer










answered Mar 7 at 18:06









Doug M

43k31752




43k31752












  • WOW- amazing, thanks so much! Thats fantastic!
    – Laura Ready
    Mar 8 at 7:47


















  • WOW- amazing, thanks so much! Thats fantastic!
    – Laura Ready
    Mar 8 at 7:47
















WOW- amazing, thanks so much! Thats fantastic!
– Laura Ready
Mar 8 at 7:47




WOW- amazing, thanks so much! Thats fantastic!
– Laura Ready
Mar 8 at 7:47










up vote
0
down vote













If $x$ is the radius of the small blue circle and $y$ the radius of the bigger red circle, then $y = sqrt 8 cdot x$.



To see this, denote with $a$ and $d$ the side length and the length of the diagonal of the green square respectively. By Pythagoras theorem $$d = sqrt{2}a.$$



Note that $d$ is also the diameter of the biggest circle. Since this fits exactly two small circles of radius $2x$ next to the square we have
$$
4x+a=d
$$
and thus $$x=(d-a)/4 = (sqrt 2 -1 )/4 cdot a $$
Now consider five points $C$,$P$, $Q$ and $A$ and $B$ in the plane:




  • $C$ is the centre of the red circle


  • $P$ is the point where the red circle touches the diagonal of the green square


  • $Q$ is the point where the red circle touches the right side of the green square

  • $A$ is the upper right corner of the green square

  • $B$ is the lower right corner of the green square


The triangles $PCA$ and $QCA$ are similar because they share same angles, thus also their side lengths coincide, i.p.
$$d/2 =vert PAvert = vert QAvert$$
The triangle $CQB$ has a right angle at $Q$ and a $45$°-angle at $B$, thus it is isosceles, i.e
$$
y = vert QC vert=vert QB vert
$$

Moreover
$$ vert AQ vert + vert QB vert = a.$$
Combining the three last equations yields:
$$ y = a - d/2 = (1-1/sqrt 2)cdot a.$$
Compare the two equations for $x$ and $y$ to see that
$$
y = 4 cdot frac{1-1/sqrt{2}}{sqrt 2 -1} cdot x = sqrt 8 cdot x
$$






share|cite|improve this answer























  • Thanks so much for all that work
    – Laura Ready
    Mar 8 at 7:49















up vote
0
down vote













If $x$ is the radius of the small blue circle and $y$ the radius of the bigger red circle, then $y = sqrt 8 cdot x$.



To see this, denote with $a$ and $d$ the side length and the length of the diagonal of the green square respectively. By Pythagoras theorem $$d = sqrt{2}a.$$



Note that $d$ is also the diameter of the biggest circle. Since this fits exactly two small circles of radius $2x$ next to the square we have
$$
4x+a=d
$$
and thus $$x=(d-a)/4 = (sqrt 2 -1 )/4 cdot a $$
Now consider five points $C$,$P$, $Q$ and $A$ and $B$ in the plane:




  • $C$ is the centre of the red circle


  • $P$ is the point where the red circle touches the diagonal of the green square


  • $Q$ is the point where the red circle touches the right side of the green square

  • $A$ is the upper right corner of the green square

  • $B$ is the lower right corner of the green square


The triangles $PCA$ and $QCA$ are similar because they share same angles, thus also their side lengths coincide, i.p.
$$d/2 =vert PAvert = vert QAvert$$
The triangle $CQB$ has a right angle at $Q$ and a $45$°-angle at $B$, thus it is isosceles, i.e
$$
y = vert QC vert=vert QB vert
$$

Moreover
$$ vert AQ vert + vert QB vert = a.$$
Combining the three last equations yields:
$$ y = a - d/2 = (1-1/sqrt 2)cdot a.$$
Compare the two equations for $x$ and $y$ to see that
$$
y = 4 cdot frac{1-1/sqrt{2}}{sqrt 2 -1} cdot x = sqrt 8 cdot x
$$






share|cite|improve this answer























  • Thanks so much for all that work
    – Laura Ready
    Mar 8 at 7:49













up vote
0
down vote










up vote
0
down vote









If $x$ is the radius of the small blue circle and $y$ the radius of the bigger red circle, then $y = sqrt 8 cdot x$.



To see this, denote with $a$ and $d$ the side length and the length of the diagonal of the green square respectively. By Pythagoras theorem $$d = sqrt{2}a.$$



Note that $d$ is also the diameter of the biggest circle. Since this fits exactly two small circles of radius $2x$ next to the square we have
$$
4x+a=d
$$
and thus $$x=(d-a)/4 = (sqrt 2 -1 )/4 cdot a $$
Now consider five points $C$,$P$, $Q$ and $A$ and $B$ in the plane:




  • $C$ is the centre of the red circle


  • $P$ is the point where the red circle touches the diagonal of the green square


  • $Q$ is the point where the red circle touches the right side of the green square

  • $A$ is the upper right corner of the green square

  • $B$ is the lower right corner of the green square


The triangles $PCA$ and $QCA$ are similar because they share same angles, thus also their side lengths coincide, i.p.
$$d/2 =vert PAvert = vert QAvert$$
The triangle $CQB$ has a right angle at $Q$ and a $45$°-angle at $B$, thus it is isosceles, i.e
$$
y = vert QC vert=vert QB vert
$$

Moreover
$$ vert AQ vert + vert QB vert = a.$$
Combining the three last equations yields:
$$ y = a - d/2 = (1-1/sqrt 2)cdot a.$$
Compare the two equations for $x$ and $y$ to see that
$$
y = 4 cdot frac{1-1/sqrt{2}}{sqrt 2 -1} cdot x = sqrt 8 cdot x
$$






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If $x$ is the radius of the small blue circle and $y$ the radius of the bigger red circle, then $y = sqrt 8 cdot x$.



To see this, denote with $a$ and $d$ the side length and the length of the diagonal of the green square respectively. By Pythagoras theorem $$d = sqrt{2}a.$$



Note that $d$ is also the diameter of the biggest circle. Since this fits exactly two small circles of radius $2x$ next to the square we have
$$
4x+a=d
$$
and thus $$x=(d-a)/4 = (sqrt 2 -1 )/4 cdot a $$
Now consider five points $C$,$P$, $Q$ and $A$ and $B$ in the plane:




  • $C$ is the centre of the red circle


  • $P$ is the point where the red circle touches the diagonal of the green square


  • $Q$ is the point where the red circle touches the right side of the green square

  • $A$ is the upper right corner of the green square

  • $B$ is the lower right corner of the green square


The triangles $PCA$ and $QCA$ are similar because they share same angles, thus also their side lengths coincide, i.p.
$$d/2 =vert PAvert = vert QAvert$$
The triangle $CQB$ has a right angle at $Q$ and a $45$°-angle at $B$, thus it is isosceles, i.e
$$
y = vert QC vert=vert QB vert
$$

Moreover
$$ vert AQ vert + vert QB vert = a.$$
Combining the three last equations yields:
$$ y = a - d/2 = (1-1/sqrt 2)cdot a.$$
Compare the two equations for $x$ and $y$ to see that
$$
y = 4 cdot frac{1-1/sqrt{2}}{sqrt 2 -1} cdot x = sqrt 8 cdot x
$$







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edited Mar 7 at 21:04

























answered Mar 7 at 18:45









Jan Bohr

3,2291420




3,2291420












  • Thanks so much for all that work
    – Laura Ready
    Mar 8 at 7:49


















  • Thanks so much for all that work
    – Laura Ready
    Mar 8 at 7:49
















Thanks so much for all that work
– Laura Ready
Mar 8 at 7:49




Thanks so much for all that work
– Laura Ready
Mar 8 at 7:49


















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