Change from labialized velar to labial
5
Is there a specific auditory reason for which a labiovelar such as "kʷ" becomes a "p" sound?This could also be applied to the change in Latin from "duellum" to "bellum"
phonology phonetics
asked Dec 30 '18 at 11:59
X30MarcoX30Marco
4067
add a comment |
5
Is there a specific auditory reason for which a labiovelar such as "kʷ" becomes a "p" sound?This could also be applied to the change in Latin from "duellum" to "bellum"
phonology phonetics
asked Dec 30 '18 at 11:59
X30MarcoX30Marco
4067
1
The title sounded like the development from [w] to [β̞] to me, because [w] is equally labial and velar. [kʷ] has velar closure but only labial approximation.
– tobiornottobi
Dec 30 '18 at 12:40
@tobiornottobi You're right,I fixed it
– X30Marco
Dec 30 '18 at 12:45
add a comment |
5
5
5
Is there a specific auditory reason for which a labiovelar such as "kʷ" becomes a "p" sound?This could also be applied to the change in Latin from "duellum" to "bellum"
phonology phonetics
asked Dec 30 '18 at 11:59
X30MarcoX30Marco
4067
Is there a specific auditory reason for which a labiovelar such as "kʷ" becomes a "p" sound?This could also be applied to the change in Latin from "duellum" to "bellum"
phonology phonetics
phonology phonetics
asked Dec 30 '18 at 11:59
X30MarcoX30Marco
4067
asked Dec 30 '18 at 11:59
X30MarcoX30Marco
4067
edited Dec 30 '18 at 12:44
X30Marco
asked Dec 30 '18 at 11:59
X30MarcoX30Marco
4067
asked Dec 30 '18 at 11:59
X30MarcoX30Marco
4067
asked Dec 30 '18 at 11:59
X30MarcoX30Marco
4067
4067
1
The title sounded like the development from [w] to [β̞] to me, because [w] is equally labial and velar. [kʷ] has velar closure but only labial approximation.
– tobiornottobi
Dec 30 '18 at 12:40
@tobiornottobi You're right,I fixed it
– X30Marco
Dec 30 '18 at 12:45
add a comment |
1
The title sounded like the development from [w] to [β̞] to me, because [w] is equally labial and velar. [kʷ] has velar closure but only labial approximation.
– tobiornottobi
Dec 30 '18 at 12:40
@tobiornottobi You're right,I fixed it
– X30Marco
Dec 30 '18 at 12:45
1
1
The title sounded like the development from [w] to [β̞] to me, because [w] is equally labial and velar. [kʷ] has velar closure but only labial approximation.
– tobiornottobi
Dec 30 '18 at 12:40
The title sounded like the development from [w] to [β̞] to me, because [w] is equally labial and velar. [kʷ] has velar closure but only labial approximation.
– tobiornottobi
Dec 30 '18 at 12:40
@tobiornottobi You're right,I fixed it
– X30Marco
Dec 30 '18 at 12:45
@tobiornottobi You're right,I fixed it
– X30Marco
Dec 30 '18 at 12:45
add a comment |
1 Answer
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5
I would say you hear the labialization (I think a lower F2) and you hear the plosion. These features are shared with [b] and [p]. The lack of voicing of [k] is further shared with [p] and the voicing of [d] is shared with [b].
answered Dec 30 '18 at 12:35
tobiornottobitobiornottobi
5288
Low F2 is only observed with rounded labial. This can only be explained with an articulatory analysis, where some distinctive features are lost because of the principle of least effort.
– amegnunsen
Dec 30 '18 at 17:43
@amegnunsen As far as I know, lip rounding also lowers the F2 of front vowels etc.
– tobiornottobi
Dec 30 '18 at 18:27
1
Yes, I am saying the same thing. You are talking about [p] and [b], but these consonants don't have rounded lips.
– amegnunsen
Dec 30 '18 at 18:51
1
@amegnunsen Ah, okay. That's a good point. They don't have rounded lips but closed lips. And you are saying, closing the lips fully does not lead to a lowered F2. What I assumed was that lip rounding (especially compressed) and lip closure had similar acoustic properties and that after breaking the closure the lips are likely to not be spread. I could be wrong, though.
– tobiornottobi
Dec 30 '18 at 19:05
Perceptually, I don't think so. pʷ/bʷ are common sounds, so kʷ will become one of them instead of p/b.
– amegnunsen
Dec 30 '18 at 19:30
|
show 2 more comments
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1 Answer
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5
I would say you hear the labialization (I think a lower F2) and you hear the plosion. These features are shared with [b] and [p]. The lack of voicing of [k] is further shared with [p] and the voicing of [d] is shared with [b].
answered Dec 30 '18 at 12:35
tobiornottobitobiornottobi
5288
Low F2 is only observed with rounded labial. This can only be explained with an articulatory analysis, where some distinctive features are lost because of the principle of least effort.
– amegnunsen
Dec 30 '18 at 17:43
@amegnunsen As far as I know, lip rounding also lowers the F2 of front vowels etc.
– tobiornottobi
Dec 30 '18 at 18:27
1
Yes, I am saying the same thing. You are talking about [p] and [b], but these consonants don't have rounded lips.
– amegnunsen
Dec 30 '18 at 18:51
1
@amegnunsen Ah, okay. That's a good point. They don't have rounded lips but closed lips. And you are saying, closing the lips fully does not lead to a lowered F2. What I assumed was that lip rounding (especially compressed) and lip closure had similar acoustic properties and that after breaking the closure the lips are likely to not be spread. I could be wrong, though.
– tobiornottobi
Dec 30 '18 at 19:05
Perceptually, I don't think so. pʷ/bʷ are common sounds, so kʷ will become one of them instead of p/b.
– amegnunsen
Dec 30 '18 at 19:30
|
show 2 more comments
5
I would say you hear the labialization (I think a lower F2) and you hear the plosion. These features are shared with [b] and [p]. The lack of voicing of [k] is further shared with [p] and the voicing of [d] is shared with [b].
answered Dec 30 '18 at 12:35
tobiornottobitobiornottobi
5288
Low F2 is only observed with rounded labial. This can only be explained with an articulatory analysis, where some distinctive features are lost because of the principle of least effort.
– amegnunsen
Dec 30 '18 at 17:43
@amegnunsen As far as I know, lip rounding also lowers the F2 of front vowels etc.
– tobiornottobi
Dec 30 '18 at 18:27
1
Yes, I am saying the same thing. You are talking about [p] and [b], but these consonants don't have rounded lips.
– amegnunsen
Dec 30 '18 at 18:51
1
@amegnunsen Ah, okay. That's a good point. They don't have rounded lips but closed lips. And you are saying, closing the lips fully does not lead to a lowered F2. What I assumed was that lip rounding (especially compressed) and lip closure had similar acoustic properties and that after breaking the closure the lips are likely to not be spread. I could be wrong, though.
– tobiornottobi
Dec 30 '18 at 19:05
Perceptually, I don't think so. pʷ/bʷ are common sounds, so kʷ will become one of them instead of p/b.
– amegnunsen
Dec 30 '18 at 19:30
|
show 2 more comments
5
5
5
I would say you hear the labialization (I think a lower F2) and you hear the plosion. These features are shared with [b] and [p]. The lack of voicing of [k] is further shared with [p] and the voicing of [d] is shared with [b].
answered Dec 30 '18 at 12:35
tobiornottobitobiornottobi
5288
I would say you hear the labialization (I think a lower F2) and you hear the plosion. These features are shared with [b] and [p]. The lack of voicing of [k] is further shared with [p] and the voicing of [d] is shared with [b].
answered Dec 30 '18 at 12:35
tobiornottobitobiornottobi
5288
answered Dec 30 '18 at 12:35
tobiornottobitobiornottobi
5288
answered Dec 30 '18 at 12:35
tobiornottobitobiornottobi
5288
answered Dec 30 '18 at 12:35
tobiornottobitobiornottobi
5288
5288
Low F2 is only observed with rounded labial. This can only be explained with an articulatory analysis, where some distinctive features are lost because of the principle of least effort.
– amegnunsen
Dec 30 '18 at 17:43
@amegnunsen As far as I know, lip rounding also lowers the F2 of front vowels etc.
– tobiornottobi
Dec 30 '18 at 18:27
1
Yes, I am saying the same thing. You are talking about [p] and [b], but these consonants don't have rounded lips.
– amegnunsen
Dec 30 '18 at 18:51
1
@amegnunsen Ah, okay. That's a good point. They don't have rounded lips but closed lips. And you are saying, closing the lips fully does not lead to a lowered F2. What I assumed was that lip rounding (especially compressed) and lip closure had similar acoustic properties and that after breaking the closure the lips are likely to not be spread. I could be wrong, though.
– tobiornottobi
Dec 30 '18 at 19:05
Perceptually, I don't think so. pʷ/bʷ are common sounds, so kʷ will become one of them instead of p/b.
– amegnunsen
Dec 30 '18 at 19:30
|
show 2 more comments
Low F2 is only observed with rounded labial. This can only be explained with an articulatory analysis, where some distinctive features are lost because of the principle of least effort.
– amegnunsen
Dec 30 '18 at 17:43
@amegnunsen As far as I know, lip rounding also lowers the F2 of front vowels etc.
– tobiornottobi
Dec 30 '18 at 18:27
1
Yes, I am saying the same thing. You are talking about [p] and [b], but these consonants don't have rounded lips.
– amegnunsen
Dec 30 '18 at 18:51
1
@amegnunsen Ah, okay. That's a good point. They don't have rounded lips but closed lips. And you are saying, closing the lips fully does not lead to a lowered F2. What I assumed was that lip rounding (especially compressed) and lip closure had similar acoustic properties and that after breaking the closure the lips are likely to not be spread. I could be wrong, though.
– tobiornottobi
Dec 30 '18 at 19:05
Perceptually, I don't think so. pʷ/bʷ are common sounds, so kʷ will become one of them instead of p/b.
– amegnunsen
Dec 30 '18 at 19:30
Low F2 is only observed with rounded labial. This can only be explained with an articulatory analysis, where some distinctive features are lost because of the principle of least effort.
– amegnunsen
Dec 30 '18 at 17:43
Low F2 is only observed with rounded labial. This can only be explained with an articulatory analysis, where some distinctive features are lost because of the principle of least effort.
– amegnunsen
Dec 30 '18 at 17:43
@amegnunsen As far as I know, lip rounding also lowers the F2 of front vowels etc.
– tobiornottobi
Dec 30 '18 at 18:27
@amegnunsen As far as I know, lip rounding also lowers the F2 of front vowels etc.
– tobiornottobi
Dec 30 '18 at 18:27
1
1
Yes, I am saying the same thing. You are talking about [p] and [b], but these consonants don't have rounded lips.
– amegnunsen
Dec 30 '18 at 18:51
Yes, I am saying the same thing. You are talking about [p] and [b], but these consonants don't have rounded lips.
– amegnunsen
Dec 30 '18 at 18:51
1
1
@amegnunsen Ah, okay. That's a good point. They don't have rounded lips but closed lips. And you are saying, closing the lips fully does not lead to a lowered F2. What I assumed was that lip rounding (especially compressed) and lip closure had similar acoustic properties and that after breaking the closure the lips are likely to not be spread. I could be wrong, though.
– tobiornottobi
Dec 30 '18 at 19:05
@amegnunsen Ah, okay. That's a good point. They don't have rounded lips but closed lips. And you are saying, closing the lips fully does not lead to a lowered F2. What I assumed was that lip rounding (especially compressed) and lip closure had similar acoustic properties and that after breaking the closure the lips are likely to not be spread. I could be wrong, though.
– tobiornottobi
Dec 30 '18 at 19:05
Perceptually, I don't think so. pʷ/bʷ are common sounds, so kʷ will become one of them instead of p/b.
– amegnunsen
Dec 30 '18 at 19:30
Perceptually, I don't think so. pʷ/bʷ are common sounds, so kʷ will become one of them instead of p/b.
– amegnunsen
Dec 30 '18 at 19:30
|
show 2 more comments
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1
The title sounded like the development from [w] to [β̞] to me, because [w] is equally labial and velar. [kʷ] has velar closure but only labial approximation.
– tobiornottobi
Dec 30 '18 at 12:40
@tobiornottobi You're right,I fixed it
– X30Marco
Dec 30 '18 at 12:45