An element of a set with a finite cover must be an element of at most two open intervals in a subcover?
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2
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Prove:
If a set $Asubseteqmathbb{R}$ has a cover consisting of a finite number of open intervals, then A has a subcover such that for each $xin A$, x is an element of at most two of the open intervals in the subcover.
My attempt:
To be honest, I have grappled with this problem for too long; I have no idea how to approach this proof. I only have the definitions of cover, subcover, and compact sets and the Heine-Borel Theorem at my disposal. I am having difficulty connecting this ideas to prove what needs to be proven. Could someone give me an idea on how to begin this proof?
real-analysis general-topology proof-verification continuity uniform-continuity
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up vote
2
down vote
favorite
Prove:
If a set $Asubseteqmathbb{R}$ has a cover consisting of a finite number of open intervals, then A has a subcover such that for each $xin A$, x is an element of at most two of the open intervals in the subcover.
My attempt:
To be honest, I have grappled with this problem for too long; I have no idea how to approach this proof. I only have the definitions of cover, subcover, and compact sets and the Heine-Borel Theorem at my disposal. I am having difficulty connecting this ideas to prove what needs to be proven. Could someone give me an idea on how to begin this proof?
real-analysis general-topology proof-verification continuity uniform-continuity
@ViktorGlombik Yes. I am sorry I forgot to mention it.
– SebastianLinde
yesterday
Can you prove it in the special case where your finite cover has only $3$ members? If some point $x$ is in all $3$ of the intervals, can you prove that one of the $3$ intervals is covered by the other $2$, so that interval can be discarded?
– bof
yesterday
@bof I cannot. I can picture it, and I know it must be true, but I have trouble proving it with the given information.
– SebastianLinde
yesterday
You can have a refinement with that property not always a subcover. The refinement is part of the definition of one-dimensional, in the covering sense.
– Henno Brandsma
yesterday
@HennoBrandsma He is starting with a finite cover, so in this case he can get a subcover with that property.
– bof
yesterday
add a comment |
up vote
2
down vote
favorite
up vote
2
down vote
favorite
Prove:
If a set $Asubseteqmathbb{R}$ has a cover consisting of a finite number of open intervals, then A has a subcover such that for each $xin A$, x is an element of at most two of the open intervals in the subcover.
My attempt:
To be honest, I have grappled with this problem for too long; I have no idea how to approach this proof. I only have the definitions of cover, subcover, and compact sets and the Heine-Borel Theorem at my disposal. I am having difficulty connecting this ideas to prove what needs to be proven. Could someone give me an idea on how to begin this proof?
real-analysis general-topology proof-verification continuity uniform-continuity
Prove:
If a set $Asubseteqmathbb{R}$ has a cover consisting of a finite number of open intervals, then A has a subcover such that for each $xin A$, x is an element of at most two of the open intervals in the subcover.
My attempt:
To be honest, I have grappled with this problem for too long; I have no idea how to approach this proof. I only have the definitions of cover, subcover, and compact sets and the Heine-Borel Theorem at my disposal. I am having difficulty connecting this ideas to prove what needs to be proven. Could someone give me an idea on how to begin this proof?
real-analysis general-topology proof-verification continuity uniform-continuity
real-analysis general-topology proof-verification continuity uniform-continuity
edited yesterday
freakish
10.3k1526
10.3k1526
asked yesterday
SebastianLinde
978
978
@ViktorGlombik Yes. I am sorry I forgot to mention it.
– SebastianLinde
yesterday
Can you prove it in the special case where your finite cover has only $3$ members? If some point $x$ is in all $3$ of the intervals, can you prove that one of the $3$ intervals is covered by the other $2$, so that interval can be discarded?
– bof
yesterday
@bof I cannot. I can picture it, and I know it must be true, but I have trouble proving it with the given information.
– SebastianLinde
yesterday
You can have a refinement with that property not always a subcover. The refinement is part of the definition of one-dimensional, in the covering sense.
– Henno Brandsma
yesterday
@HennoBrandsma He is starting with a finite cover, so in this case he can get a subcover with that property.
– bof
yesterday
add a comment |
@ViktorGlombik Yes. I am sorry I forgot to mention it.
– SebastianLinde
yesterday
Can you prove it in the special case where your finite cover has only $3$ members? If some point $x$ is in all $3$ of the intervals, can you prove that one of the $3$ intervals is covered by the other $2$, so that interval can be discarded?
– bof
yesterday
@bof I cannot. I can picture it, and I know it must be true, but I have trouble proving it with the given information.
– SebastianLinde
yesterday
You can have a refinement with that property not always a subcover. The refinement is part of the definition of one-dimensional, in the covering sense.
– Henno Brandsma
yesterday
@HennoBrandsma He is starting with a finite cover, so in this case he can get a subcover with that property.
– bof
yesterday
@ViktorGlombik Yes. I am sorry I forgot to mention it.
– SebastianLinde
yesterday
@ViktorGlombik Yes. I am sorry I forgot to mention it.
– SebastianLinde
yesterday
Can you prove it in the special case where your finite cover has only $3$ members? If some point $x$ is in all $3$ of the intervals, can you prove that one of the $3$ intervals is covered by the other $2$, so that interval can be discarded?
– bof
yesterday
Can you prove it in the special case where your finite cover has only $3$ members? If some point $x$ is in all $3$ of the intervals, can you prove that one of the $3$ intervals is covered by the other $2$, so that interval can be discarded?
– bof
yesterday
@bof I cannot. I can picture it, and I know it must be true, but I have trouble proving it with the given information.
– SebastianLinde
yesterday
@bof I cannot. I can picture it, and I know it must be true, but I have trouble proving it with the given information.
– SebastianLinde
yesterday
You can have a refinement with that property not always a subcover. The refinement is part of the definition of one-dimensional, in the covering sense.
– Henno Brandsma
yesterday
You can have a refinement with that property not always a subcover. The refinement is part of the definition of one-dimensional, in the covering sense.
– Henno Brandsma
yesterday
@HennoBrandsma He is starting with a finite cover, so in this case he can get a subcover with that property.
– bof
yesterday
@HennoBrandsma He is starting with a finite cover, so in this case he can get a subcover with that property.
– bof
yesterday
add a comment |
3 Answers
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Denote by $mathcal{C}$ the open cover. Let $I_1inmathcal{C}$ denote an interval containing $inf A$ (or with boundary $inf A$, if necessary). Next, let $I_2inmathcal{C}$ be the interval containing $inf (A- I_1)$ with maximal upper bound. Then let $I_3inmathcal{C}$ be the interval containing $inf(A- I_2-I_1)$ with maximal upper bound. Since $sup I_3>sup I_2$ and $I_2$ has maximal upper bound for intervals containing $inf(A-I_1)$, it follows that $I_3>inf(A- I_1)$. Continue inductively until finished.
There may be no interval containing $inf A$. (You might say $I_1$ extending to $inf A$, regardless whether $inf A=-infty$ or a finite number.)
– Mirko
yesterday
Oops! Fixed it.
– Ben W
13 hours ago
add a comment |
up vote
1
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The following is based on ideas from bof's comment and Black8Mamba23's answer. Since your given cover is finite, consider a minimal subcover $C$. Suppose, toward a contradiction, that some point $x$ is in more than two of the intervals in $C$. Among those (finitely many but more than $2$) intervals from $C$ that contain $x$, let $I$ be one with the smallest left endpoint, and let $J$ be one with the largest right endpoint. There is at least one other interval $K$ from $C$ that contains $x$, because of our "more than $2$" assumption. Any such $K$ is included in $Icup J$, because (1) our choice of $I$ ensures that the part of $K$ to the left of $x$ is included in $I$ and (2) our choice of $J$ ensures that the part of $K$ to the right of $x$ is included in $J$. So $C-{K}$ is still a cover, and that contradicts our choice of $C$ as a minimal subcover.
add a comment |
up vote
0
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What if you argued by contradiction? This is a super crude discussion on how I'm thinking one could proceed:
Suppose the statement is false. So assume that for every subcover $T'$, there exists an element $xin A$ such that $x$ is in at least $3$ of the open intervals of the arbitrary subcover $T'$. Without loss of generality, suppose that there are exactly $3$ intervals containing $x$.
Then, proceed to argue as @bof suggests: refine these three intervals such that one is covered by the other two and discard it from $T'$. Then, note that what remains must be another subcover of $A$ where every element $xin A$ is in at most two intervals. This contradicts the assumption that every subcover of $A$ contains an $x$ from A that is in more than two open intervals in the subcover.
New contributor
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3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
up vote
1
down vote
Denote by $mathcal{C}$ the open cover. Let $I_1inmathcal{C}$ denote an interval containing $inf A$ (or with boundary $inf A$, if necessary). Next, let $I_2inmathcal{C}$ be the interval containing $inf (A- I_1)$ with maximal upper bound. Then let $I_3inmathcal{C}$ be the interval containing $inf(A- I_2-I_1)$ with maximal upper bound. Since $sup I_3>sup I_2$ and $I_2$ has maximal upper bound for intervals containing $inf(A-I_1)$, it follows that $I_3>inf(A- I_1)$. Continue inductively until finished.
There may be no interval containing $inf A$. (You might say $I_1$ extending to $inf A$, regardless whether $inf A=-infty$ or a finite number.)
– Mirko
yesterday
Oops! Fixed it.
– Ben W
13 hours ago
add a comment |
up vote
1
down vote
Denote by $mathcal{C}$ the open cover. Let $I_1inmathcal{C}$ denote an interval containing $inf A$ (or with boundary $inf A$, if necessary). Next, let $I_2inmathcal{C}$ be the interval containing $inf (A- I_1)$ with maximal upper bound. Then let $I_3inmathcal{C}$ be the interval containing $inf(A- I_2-I_1)$ with maximal upper bound. Since $sup I_3>sup I_2$ and $I_2$ has maximal upper bound for intervals containing $inf(A-I_1)$, it follows that $I_3>inf(A- I_1)$. Continue inductively until finished.
There may be no interval containing $inf A$. (You might say $I_1$ extending to $inf A$, regardless whether $inf A=-infty$ or a finite number.)
– Mirko
yesterday
Oops! Fixed it.
– Ben W
13 hours ago
add a comment |
up vote
1
down vote
up vote
1
down vote
Denote by $mathcal{C}$ the open cover. Let $I_1inmathcal{C}$ denote an interval containing $inf A$ (or with boundary $inf A$, if necessary). Next, let $I_2inmathcal{C}$ be the interval containing $inf (A- I_1)$ with maximal upper bound. Then let $I_3inmathcal{C}$ be the interval containing $inf(A- I_2-I_1)$ with maximal upper bound. Since $sup I_3>sup I_2$ and $I_2$ has maximal upper bound for intervals containing $inf(A-I_1)$, it follows that $I_3>inf(A- I_1)$. Continue inductively until finished.
Denote by $mathcal{C}$ the open cover. Let $I_1inmathcal{C}$ denote an interval containing $inf A$ (or with boundary $inf A$, if necessary). Next, let $I_2inmathcal{C}$ be the interval containing $inf (A- I_1)$ with maximal upper bound. Then let $I_3inmathcal{C}$ be the interval containing $inf(A- I_2-I_1)$ with maximal upper bound. Since $sup I_3>sup I_2$ and $I_2$ has maximal upper bound for intervals containing $inf(A-I_1)$, it follows that $I_3>inf(A- I_1)$. Continue inductively until finished.
edited 13 hours ago
answered yesterday
Ben W
1,079510
1,079510
There may be no interval containing $inf A$. (You might say $I_1$ extending to $inf A$, regardless whether $inf A=-infty$ or a finite number.)
– Mirko
yesterday
Oops! Fixed it.
– Ben W
13 hours ago
add a comment |
There may be no interval containing $inf A$. (You might say $I_1$ extending to $inf A$, regardless whether $inf A=-infty$ or a finite number.)
– Mirko
yesterday
Oops! Fixed it.
– Ben W
13 hours ago
There may be no interval containing $inf A$. (You might say $I_1$ extending to $inf A$, regardless whether $inf A=-infty$ or a finite number.)
– Mirko
yesterday
There may be no interval containing $inf A$. (You might say $I_1$ extending to $inf A$, regardless whether $inf A=-infty$ or a finite number.)
– Mirko
yesterday
Oops! Fixed it.
– Ben W
13 hours ago
Oops! Fixed it.
– Ben W
13 hours ago
add a comment |
up vote
1
down vote
The following is based on ideas from bof's comment and Black8Mamba23's answer. Since your given cover is finite, consider a minimal subcover $C$. Suppose, toward a contradiction, that some point $x$ is in more than two of the intervals in $C$. Among those (finitely many but more than $2$) intervals from $C$ that contain $x$, let $I$ be one with the smallest left endpoint, and let $J$ be one with the largest right endpoint. There is at least one other interval $K$ from $C$ that contains $x$, because of our "more than $2$" assumption. Any such $K$ is included in $Icup J$, because (1) our choice of $I$ ensures that the part of $K$ to the left of $x$ is included in $I$ and (2) our choice of $J$ ensures that the part of $K$ to the right of $x$ is included in $J$. So $C-{K}$ is still a cover, and that contradicts our choice of $C$ as a minimal subcover.
add a comment |
up vote
1
down vote
The following is based on ideas from bof's comment and Black8Mamba23's answer. Since your given cover is finite, consider a minimal subcover $C$. Suppose, toward a contradiction, that some point $x$ is in more than two of the intervals in $C$. Among those (finitely many but more than $2$) intervals from $C$ that contain $x$, let $I$ be one with the smallest left endpoint, and let $J$ be one with the largest right endpoint. There is at least one other interval $K$ from $C$ that contains $x$, because of our "more than $2$" assumption. Any such $K$ is included in $Icup J$, because (1) our choice of $I$ ensures that the part of $K$ to the left of $x$ is included in $I$ and (2) our choice of $J$ ensures that the part of $K$ to the right of $x$ is included in $J$. So $C-{K}$ is still a cover, and that contradicts our choice of $C$ as a minimal subcover.
add a comment |
up vote
1
down vote
up vote
1
down vote
The following is based on ideas from bof's comment and Black8Mamba23's answer. Since your given cover is finite, consider a minimal subcover $C$. Suppose, toward a contradiction, that some point $x$ is in more than two of the intervals in $C$. Among those (finitely many but more than $2$) intervals from $C$ that contain $x$, let $I$ be one with the smallest left endpoint, and let $J$ be one with the largest right endpoint. There is at least one other interval $K$ from $C$ that contains $x$, because of our "more than $2$" assumption. Any such $K$ is included in $Icup J$, because (1) our choice of $I$ ensures that the part of $K$ to the left of $x$ is included in $I$ and (2) our choice of $J$ ensures that the part of $K$ to the right of $x$ is included in $J$. So $C-{K}$ is still a cover, and that contradicts our choice of $C$ as a minimal subcover.
The following is based on ideas from bof's comment and Black8Mamba23's answer. Since your given cover is finite, consider a minimal subcover $C$. Suppose, toward a contradiction, that some point $x$ is in more than two of the intervals in $C$. Among those (finitely many but more than $2$) intervals from $C$ that contain $x$, let $I$ be one with the smallest left endpoint, and let $J$ be one with the largest right endpoint. There is at least one other interval $K$ from $C$ that contains $x$, because of our "more than $2$" assumption. Any such $K$ is included in $Icup J$, because (1) our choice of $I$ ensures that the part of $K$ to the left of $x$ is included in $I$ and (2) our choice of $J$ ensures that the part of $K$ to the right of $x$ is included in $J$. So $C-{K}$ is still a cover, and that contradicts our choice of $C$ as a minimal subcover.
answered 11 hours ago
Andreas Blass
48.8k350106
48.8k350106
add a comment |
add a comment |
up vote
0
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What if you argued by contradiction? This is a super crude discussion on how I'm thinking one could proceed:
Suppose the statement is false. So assume that for every subcover $T'$, there exists an element $xin A$ such that $x$ is in at least $3$ of the open intervals of the arbitrary subcover $T'$. Without loss of generality, suppose that there are exactly $3$ intervals containing $x$.
Then, proceed to argue as @bof suggests: refine these three intervals such that one is covered by the other two and discard it from $T'$. Then, note that what remains must be another subcover of $A$ where every element $xin A$ is in at most two intervals. This contradicts the assumption that every subcover of $A$ contains an $x$ from A that is in more than two open intervals in the subcover.
New contributor
add a comment |
up vote
0
down vote
What if you argued by contradiction? This is a super crude discussion on how I'm thinking one could proceed:
Suppose the statement is false. So assume that for every subcover $T'$, there exists an element $xin A$ such that $x$ is in at least $3$ of the open intervals of the arbitrary subcover $T'$. Without loss of generality, suppose that there are exactly $3$ intervals containing $x$.
Then, proceed to argue as @bof suggests: refine these three intervals such that one is covered by the other two and discard it from $T'$. Then, note that what remains must be another subcover of $A$ where every element $xin A$ is in at most two intervals. This contradicts the assumption that every subcover of $A$ contains an $x$ from A that is in more than two open intervals in the subcover.
New contributor
add a comment |
up vote
0
down vote
up vote
0
down vote
What if you argued by contradiction? This is a super crude discussion on how I'm thinking one could proceed:
Suppose the statement is false. So assume that for every subcover $T'$, there exists an element $xin A$ such that $x$ is in at least $3$ of the open intervals of the arbitrary subcover $T'$. Without loss of generality, suppose that there are exactly $3$ intervals containing $x$.
Then, proceed to argue as @bof suggests: refine these three intervals such that one is covered by the other two and discard it from $T'$. Then, note that what remains must be another subcover of $A$ where every element $xin A$ is in at most two intervals. This contradicts the assumption that every subcover of $A$ contains an $x$ from A that is in more than two open intervals in the subcover.
New contributor
What if you argued by contradiction? This is a super crude discussion on how I'm thinking one could proceed:
Suppose the statement is false. So assume that for every subcover $T'$, there exists an element $xin A$ such that $x$ is in at least $3$ of the open intervals of the arbitrary subcover $T'$. Without loss of generality, suppose that there are exactly $3$ intervals containing $x$.
Then, proceed to argue as @bof suggests: refine these three intervals such that one is covered by the other two and discard it from $T'$. Then, note that what remains must be another subcover of $A$ where every element $xin A$ is in at most two intervals. This contradicts the assumption that every subcover of $A$ contains an $x$ from A that is in more than two open intervals in the subcover.
New contributor
edited 5 hours ago
New contributor
answered yesterday
Black8Mamba23
11
11
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New contributor
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@ViktorGlombik Yes. I am sorry I forgot to mention it.
– SebastianLinde
yesterday
Can you prove it in the special case where your finite cover has only $3$ members? If some point $x$ is in all $3$ of the intervals, can you prove that one of the $3$ intervals is covered by the other $2$, so that interval can be discarded?
– bof
yesterday
@bof I cannot. I can picture it, and I know it must be true, but I have trouble proving it with the given information.
– SebastianLinde
yesterday
You can have a refinement with that property not always a subcover. The refinement is part of the definition of one-dimensional, in the covering sense.
– Henno Brandsma
yesterday
@HennoBrandsma He is starting with a finite cover, so in this case he can get a subcover with that property.
– bof
yesterday