Pointwise bound on differentiable $f$ in terms of $|f|_2$ and $|f'|_2$.











up vote
0
down vote

favorite












I have a relatively simple analysis question that for some reason has me stuck.



Suppose that $f:mathbb Rtomathbb R$ satisfies the following conditions.





  • $f$ is differentiable


  • $|f|_2$ and $|f'|_2$ are finite


  • $f$ is compactly supported.


Then, a simple argument shows that $fleqsqrt{2|f|_2|f'|_2}$ pointwise:
$$|f(x)|^2=left|int_{-infty}^x(f(x)^2)'~dxright|leq2int_a^x |f(x)||f'(x)|~dxleq2|f|_2|f'|_2.tag{1}$$





Remark. Intuitively, this kind of makes sense: If $f$ has a small $L^2$-norm, then it can only take very large values on sets of small Lebesgue measure. But then since $f$ is continuous it probably has to increase/decrease at a large rate next to its very large values, which is "ruled out" by $f'$ having small $L^2$-norm.






Question. Does a similar result hold when we consider functions on a bounded interval $f:[a,b]tomathbb R$?




Replicating the same argument here yields the bound
$$|f(x)^2-f(a)^2|=left|int_{a}^x(f(x)^2)'~dxright|leq 2|f|_2|f'|_2,$$
but then this is not quite the same as my first example: if we don't know how large $f(a)$ is then we don't have a pointwise bound of $f$. However, I don't see why the intuition I mention in the remak above doesn't apply here.



In short, is my intuition misguided, or am I generalizing the procedure in equation $(1)$ incorrectly?










share|cite|improve this question


























    up vote
    0
    down vote

    favorite












    I have a relatively simple analysis question that for some reason has me stuck.



    Suppose that $f:mathbb Rtomathbb R$ satisfies the following conditions.





    • $f$ is differentiable


    • $|f|_2$ and $|f'|_2$ are finite


    • $f$ is compactly supported.


    Then, a simple argument shows that $fleqsqrt{2|f|_2|f'|_2}$ pointwise:
    $$|f(x)|^2=left|int_{-infty}^x(f(x)^2)'~dxright|leq2int_a^x |f(x)||f'(x)|~dxleq2|f|_2|f'|_2.tag{1}$$





    Remark. Intuitively, this kind of makes sense: If $f$ has a small $L^2$-norm, then it can only take very large values on sets of small Lebesgue measure. But then since $f$ is continuous it probably has to increase/decrease at a large rate next to its very large values, which is "ruled out" by $f'$ having small $L^2$-norm.






    Question. Does a similar result hold when we consider functions on a bounded interval $f:[a,b]tomathbb R$?




    Replicating the same argument here yields the bound
    $$|f(x)^2-f(a)^2|=left|int_{a}^x(f(x)^2)'~dxright|leq 2|f|_2|f'|_2,$$
    but then this is not quite the same as my first example: if we don't know how large $f(a)$ is then we don't have a pointwise bound of $f$. However, I don't see why the intuition I mention in the remak above doesn't apply here.



    In short, is my intuition misguided, or am I generalizing the procedure in equation $(1)$ incorrectly?










    share|cite|improve this question
























      up vote
      0
      down vote

      favorite









      up vote
      0
      down vote

      favorite











      I have a relatively simple analysis question that for some reason has me stuck.



      Suppose that $f:mathbb Rtomathbb R$ satisfies the following conditions.





      • $f$ is differentiable


      • $|f|_2$ and $|f'|_2$ are finite


      • $f$ is compactly supported.


      Then, a simple argument shows that $fleqsqrt{2|f|_2|f'|_2}$ pointwise:
      $$|f(x)|^2=left|int_{-infty}^x(f(x)^2)'~dxright|leq2int_a^x |f(x)||f'(x)|~dxleq2|f|_2|f'|_2.tag{1}$$





      Remark. Intuitively, this kind of makes sense: If $f$ has a small $L^2$-norm, then it can only take very large values on sets of small Lebesgue measure. But then since $f$ is continuous it probably has to increase/decrease at a large rate next to its very large values, which is "ruled out" by $f'$ having small $L^2$-norm.






      Question. Does a similar result hold when we consider functions on a bounded interval $f:[a,b]tomathbb R$?




      Replicating the same argument here yields the bound
      $$|f(x)^2-f(a)^2|=left|int_{a}^x(f(x)^2)'~dxright|leq 2|f|_2|f'|_2,$$
      but then this is not quite the same as my first example: if we don't know how large $f(a)$ is then we don't have a pointwise bound of $f$. However, I don't see why the intuition I mention in the remak above doesn't apply here.



      In short, is my intuition misguided, or am I generalizing the procedure in equation $(1)$ incorrectly?










      share|cite|improve this question













      I have a relatively simple analysis question that for some reason has me stuck.



      Suppose that $f:mathbb Rtomathbb R$ satisfies the following conditions.





      • $f$ is differentiable


      • $|f|_2$ and $|f'|_2$ are finite


      • $f$ is compactly supported.


      Then, a simple argument shows that $fleqsqrt{2|f|_2|f'|_2}$ pointwise:
      $$|f(x)|^2=left|int_{-infty}^x(f(x)^2)'~dxright|leq2int_a^x |f(x)||f'(x)|~dxleq2|f|_2|f'|_2.tag{1}$$





      Remark. Intuitively, this kind of makes sense: If $f$ has a small $L^2$-norm, then it can only take very large values on sets of small Lebesgue measure. But then since $f$ is continuous it probably has to increase/decrease at a large rate next to its very large values, which is "ruled out" by $f'$ having small $L^2$-norm.






      Question. Does a similar result hold when we consider functions on a bounded interval $f:[a,b]tomathbb R$?




      Replicating the same argument here yields the bound
      $$|f(x)^2-f(a)^2|=left|int_{a}^x(f(x)^2)'~dxright|leq 2|f|_2|f'|_2,$$
      but then this is not quite the same as my first example: if we don't know how large $f(a)$ is then we don't have a pointwise bound of $f$. However, I don't see why the intuition I mention in the remak above doesn't apply here.



      In short, is my intuition misguided, or am I generalizing the procedure in equation $(1)$ incorrectly?







      calculus real-analysis functions






      share|cite|improve this question













      share|cite|improve this question











      share|cite|improve this question




      share|cite|improve this question










      asked Nov 21 at 16:47









      user78270

      2,138721




      2,138721






















          1 Answer
          1






          active

          oldest

          votes

















          up vote
          1
          down vote



          accepted











          If $f$ has a small $L^2$-norm, then it can only take very large values on sets of small Lebesgue measure




          It depends on what you mean by 'very large'. If you remove the restriction of compact support, then you also consider the constant functions $f(x)=c$ for all $xin [a,b]$. If we increase the constant $c$, these can take arbitrarily large values over the whole $[a,b]$ even if the derivative is $0$ everywhere for any choice of $c$.



          In particular, in the RHS we have $$2|f|_2|f'|_2=0$$ which means that the correct term in the LHS is indeed $|f(x)^2-f(a)^2|$ and not $|f(x)|^2$ by itself or anything 'similar'. Your inequality is sharp.






          share|cite|improve this answer





















          • Makes perfect sense, thanks for clarifying my intuition.
            – user78270
            Nov 21 at 19:29











          Your Answer





          StackExchange.ifUsing("editor", function () {
          return StackExchange.using("mathjaxEditing", function () {
          StackExchange.MarkdownEditor.creationCallbacks.add(function (editor, postfix) {
          StackExchange.mathjaxEditing.prepareWmdForMathJax(editor, postfix, [["$", "$"], ["\\(","\\)"]]);
          });
          });
          }, "mathjax-editing");

          StackExchange.ready(function() {
          var channelOptions = {
          tags: "".split(" "),
          id: "69"
          };
          initTagRenderer("".split(" "), "".split(" "), channelOptions);

          StackExchange.using("externalEditor", function() {
          // Have to fire editor after snippets, if snippets enabled
          if (StackExchange.settings.snippets.snippetsEnabled) {
          StackExchange.using("snippets", function() {
          createEditor();
          });
          }
          else {
          createEditor();
          }
          });

          function createEditor() {
          StackExchange.prepareEditor({
          heartbeatType: 'answer',
          convertImagesToLinks: true,
          noModals: true,
          showLowRepImageUploadWarning: true,
          reputationToPostImages: 10,
          bindNavPrevention: true,
          postfix: "",
          imageUploader: {
          brandingHtml: "Powered by u003ca class="icon-imgur-white" href="https://imgur.com/"u003eu003c/au003e",
          contentPolicyHtml: "User contributions licensed under u003ca href="https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/"u003ecc by-sa 3.0 with attribution requiredu003c/au003e u003ca href="https://stackoverflow.com/legal/content-policy"u003e(content policy)u003c/au003e",
          allowUrls: true
          },
          noCode: true, onDemand: true,
          discardSelector: ".discard-answer"
          ,immediatelyShowMarkdownHelp:true
          });


          }
          });














           

          draft saved


          draft discarded


















          StackExchange.ready(
          function () {
          StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fmath.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f3007996%2fpointwise-bound-on-differentiable-f-in-terms-of-f-2-and-f-2%23new-answer', 'question_page');
          }
          );

          Post as a guest















          Required, but never shown

























          1 Answer
          1






          active

          oldest

          votes








          1 Answer
          1






          active

          oldest

          votes









          active

          oldest

          votes






          active

          oldest

          votes








          up vote
          1
          down vote



          accepted











          If $f$ has a small $L^2$-norm, then it can only take very large values on sets of small Lebesgue measure




          It depends on what you mean by 'very large'. If you remove the restriction of compact support, then you also consider the constant functions $f(x)=c$ for all $xin [a,b]$. If we increase the constant $c$, these can take arbitrarily large values over the whole $[a,b]$ even if the derivative is $0$ everywhere for any choice of $c$.



          In particular, in the RHS we have $$2|f|_2|f'|_2=0$$ which means that the correct term in the LHS is indeed $|f(x)^2-f(a)^2|$ and not $|f(x)|^2$ by itself or anything 'similar'. Your inequality is sharp.






          share|cite|improve this answer





















          • Makes perfect sense, thanks for clarifying my intuition.
            – user78270
            Nov 21 at 19:29















          up vote
          1
          down vote



          accepted











          If $f$ has a small $L^2$-norm, then it can only take very large values on sets of small Lebesgue measure




          It depends on what you mean by 'very large'. If you remove the restriction of compact support, then you also consider the constant functions $f(x)=c$ for all $xin [a,b]$. If we increase the constant $c$, these can take arbitrarily large values over the whole $[a,b]$ even if the derivative is $0$ everywhere for any choice of $c$.



          In particular, in the RHS we have $$2|f|_2|f'|_2=0$$ which means that the correct term in the LHS is indeed $|f(x)^2-f(a)^2|$ and not $|f(x)|^2$ by itself or anything 'similar'. Your inequality is sharp.






          share|cite|improve this answer





















          • Makes perfect sense, thanks for clarifying my intuition.
            – user78270
            Nov 21 at 19:29













          up vote
          1
          down vote



          accepted







          up vote
          1
          down vote



          accepted







          If $f$ has a small $L^2$-norm, then it can only take very large values on sets of small Lebesgue measure




          It depends on what you mean by 'very large'. If you remove the restriction of compact support, then you also consider the constant functions $f(x)=c$ for all $xin [a,b]$. If we increase the constant $c$, these can take arbitrarily large values over the whole $[a,b]$ even if the derivative is $0$ everywhere for any choice of $c$.



          In particular, in the RHS we have $$2|f|_2|f'|_2=0$$ which means that the correct term in the LHS is indeed $|f(x)^2-f(a)^2|$ and not $|f(x)|^2$ by itself or anything 'similar'. Your inequality is sharp.






          share|cite|improve this answer













          If $f$ has a small $L^2$-norm, then it can only take very large values on sets of small Lebesgue measure




          It depends on what you mean by 'very large'. If you remove the restriction of compact support, then you also consider the constant functions $f(x)=c$ for all $xin [a,b]$. If we increase the constant $c$, these can take arbitrarily large values over the whole $[a,b]$ even if the derivative is $0$ everywhere for any choice of $c$.



          In particular, in the RHS we have $$2|f|_2|f'|_2=0$$ which means that the correct term in the LHS is indeed $|f(x)^2-f(a)^2|$ and not $|f(x)|^2$ by itself or anything 'similar'. Your inequality is sharp.







          share|cite|improve this answer












          share|cite|improve this answer



          share|cite|improve this answer










          answered Nov 21 at 18:59









          Lorenzo Quarisa

          3,101316




          3,101316












          • Makes perfect sense, thanks for clarifying my intuition.
            – user78270
            Nov 21 at 19:29


















          • Makes perfect sense, thanks for clarifying my intuition.
            – user78270
            Nov 21 at 19:29
















          Makes perfect sense, thanks for clarifying my intuition.
          – user78270
          Nov 21 at 19:29




          Makes perfect sense, thanks for clarifying my intuition.
          – user78270
          Nov 21 at 19:29


















           

          draft saved


          draft discarded



















































           


          draft saved


          draft discarded














          StackExchange.ready(
          function () {
          StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fmath.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f3007996%2fpointwise-bound-on-differentiable-f-in-terms-of-f-2-and-f-2%23new-answer', 'question_page');
          }
          );

          Post as a guest















          Required, but never shown





















































          Required, but never shown














          Required, but never shown












          Required, but never shown







          Required, but never shown

































          Required, but never shown














          Required, but never shown












          Required, but never shown







          Required, but never shown







          Popular posts from this blog

          Wiesbaden

          Marschland

          Dieringhausen