What is the correct notation for the set of rational numbers $frac{n}{m}$ with the constraint that $1le n,m...











up vote
2
down vote

favorite












I have set that I want to neatly write down/present with set notation. The set contains:



All the rational numbers $frac{n}{m}$ with the constraint that $1le n,m le5, n,min mathbb{Z}$.



I have come up with a few ways to write it down but I am not sure which one (if any) is correct.



$$begin{align}
left{ frac{m}{n} vert n,min mathbb{Z} land1le nle5 land1le mle5right} tag 1\
left{ frac{m}{n} in mathbb{Q}vert n,min mathbb{Z} land1le nle5 land1le mle5right} tag 2\
left{frac{n}{m}in mathbb{Q}vert n,m in mathbb{Z}, 1le n,mle 5right} tag 3
end{align}$$










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  • 3




    it might be a matter of taste, and depends on the context and conventions, that is it might be possible to automatically assume that $m,n$ denote integers (which you do in the title), then ${frac m n: 1le n,m le5}$. The abbreviation $n,min mathbb{Z}$ is not used by some authors (perhaps it doesn't say that $nin mathbb{Z}$), who prefer $nin mathbb{Z},min mathbb{Z}$, in this case ${ frac{m}{n} | nin mathbb{Z},min mathbb{Z}, 1le nle5, 1le mle5}$. It is a matter of taste, unless you may want to write a formal theorem prover and syntax becomes important (don't know much).
    – Mirko
    Nov 17 at 12:14












  • @Mirko Thank you. I will problably use the first or second and combine it with your suggestion of writing $n in mathbb{Z}, m in mathbb{z}$. Thanks again.
    – Nullspace
    Nov 17 at 12:24










  • I just added left and right to your brackets so they matched the height of their contents.
    – Robert Frost
    Nov 20 at 9:38















up vote
2
down vote

favorite












I have set that I want to neatly write down/present with set notation. The set contains:



All the rational numbers $frac{n}{m}$ with the constraint that $1le n,m le5, n,min mathbb{Z}$.



I have come up with a few ways to write it down but I am not sure which one (if any) is correct.



$$begin{align}
left{ frac{m}{n} vert n,min mathbb{Z} land1le nle5 land1le mle5right} tag 1\
left{ frac{m}{n} in mathbb{Q}vert n,min mathbb{Z} land1le nle5 land1le mle5right} tag 2\
left{frac{n}{m}in mathbb{Q}vert n,m in mathbb{Z}, 1le n,mle 5right} tag 3
end{align}$$










share|cite|improve this question




















  • 3




    it might be a matter of taste, and depends on the context and conventions, that is it might be possible to automatically assume that $m,n$ denote integers (which you do in the title), then ${frac m n: 1le n,m le5}$. The abbreviation $n,min mathbb{Z}$ is not used by some authors (perhaps it doesn't say that $nin mathbb{Z}$), who prefer $nin mathbb{Z},min mathbb{Z}$, in this case ${ frac{m}{n} | nin mathbb{Z},min mathbb{Z}, 1le nle5, 1le mle5}$. It is a matter of taste, unless you may want to write a formal theorem prover and syntax becomes important (don't know much).
    – Mirko
    Nov 17 at 12:14












  • @Mirko Thank you. I will problably use the first or second and combine it with your suggestion of writing $n in mathbb{Z}, m in mathbb{z}$. Thanks again.
    – Nullspace
    Nov 17 at 12:24










  • I just added left and right to your brackets so they matched the height of their contents.
    – Robert Frost
    Nov 20 at 9:38













up vote
2
down vote

favorite









up vote
2
down vote

favorite











I have set that I want to neatly write down/present with set notation. The set contains:



All the rational numbers $frac{n}{m}$ with the constraint that $1le n,m le5, n,min mathbb{Z}$.



I have come up with a few ways to write it down but I am not sure which one (if any) is correct.



$$begin{align}
left{ frac{m}{n} vert n,min mathbb{Z} land1le nle5 land1le mle5right} tag 1\
left{ frac{m}{n} in mathbb{Q}vert n,min mathbb{Z} land1le nle5 land1le mle5right} tag 2\
left{frac{n}{m}in mathbb{Q}vert n,m in mathbb{Z}, 1le n,mle 5right} tag 3
end{align}$$










share|cite|improve this question















I have set that I want to neatly write down/present with set notation. The set contains:



All the rational numbers $frac{n}{m}$ with the constraint that $1le n,m le5, n,min mathbb{Z}$.



I have come up with a few ways to write it down but I am not sure which one (if any) is correct.



$$begin{align}
left{ frac{m}{n} vert n,min mathbb{Z} land1le nle5 land1le mle5right} tag 1\
left{ frac{m}{n} in mathbb{Q}vert n,min mathbb{Z} land1le nle5 land1le mle5right} tag 2\
left{frac{n}{m}in mathbb{Q}vert n,m in mathbb{Z}, 1le n,mle 5right} tag 3
end{align}$$







elementary-set-theory






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edited Nov 20 at 9:37









Robert Frost

4,1841039




4,1841039










asked Nov 17 at 12:03









Nullspace

15119




15119








  • 3




    it might be a matter of taste, and depends on the context and conventions, that is it might be possible to automatically assume that $m,n$ denote integers (which you do in the title), then ${frac m n: 1le n,m le5}$. The abbreviation $n,min mathbb{Z}$ is not used by some authors (perhaps it doesn't say that $nin mathbb{Z}$), who prefer $nin mathbb{Z},min mathbb{Z}$, in this case ${ frac{m}{n} | nin mathbb{Z},min mathbb{Z}, 1le nle5, 1le mle5}$. It is a matter of taste, unless you may want to write a formal theorem prover and syntax becomes important (don't know much).
    – Mirko
    Nov 17 at 12:14












  • @Mirko Thank you. I will problably use the first or second and combine it with your suggestion of writing $n in mathbb{Z}, m in mathbb{z}$. Thanks again.
    – Nullspace
    Nov 17 at 12:24










  • I just added left and right to your brackets so they matched the height of their contents.
    – Robert Frost
    Nov 20 at 9:38














  • 3




    it might be a matter of taste, and depends on the context and conventions, that is it might be possible to automatically assume that $m,n$ denote integers (which you do in the title), then ${frac m n: 1le n,m le5}$. The abbreviation $n,min mathbb{Z}$ is not used by some authors (perhaps it doesn't say that $nin mathbb{Z}$), who prefer $nin mathbb{Z},min mathbb{Z}$, in this case ${ frac{m}{n} | nin mathbb{Z},min mathbb{Z}, 1le nle5, 1le mle5}$. It is a matter of taste, unless you may want to write a formal theorem prover and syntax becomes important (don't know much).
    – Mirko
    Nov 17 at 12:14












  • @Mirko Thank you. I will problably use the first or second and combine it with your suggestion of writing $n in mathbb{Z}, m in mathbb{z}$. Thanks again.
    – Nullspace
    Nov 17 at 12:24










  • I just added left and right to your brackets so they matched the height of their contents.
    – Robert Frost
    Nov 20 at 9:38








3




3




it might be a matter of taste, and depends on the context and conventions, that is it might be possible to automatically assume that $m,n$ denote integers (which you do in the title), then ${frac m n: 1le n,m le5}$. The abbreviation $n,min mathbb{Z}$ is not used by some authors (perhaps it doesn't say that $nin mathbb{Z}$), who prefer $nin mathbb{Z},min mathbb{Z}$, in this case ${ frac{m}{n} | nin mathbb{Z},min mathbb{Z}, 1le nle5, 1le mle5}$. It is a matter of taste, unless you may want to write a formal theorem prover and syntax becomes important (don't know much).
– Mirko
Nov 17 at 12:14






it might be a matter of taste, and depends on the context and conventions, that is it might be possible to automatically assume that $m,n$ denote integers (which you do in the title), then ${frac m n: 1le n,m le5}$. The abbreviation $n,min mathbb{Z}$ is not used by some authors (perhaps it doesn't say that $nin mathbb{Z}$), who prefer $nin mathbb{Z},min mathbb{Z}$, in this case ${ frac{m}{n} | nin mathbb{Z},min mathbb{Z}, 1le nle5, 1le mle5}$. It is a matter of taste, unless you may want to write a formal theorem prover and syntax becomes important (don't know much).
– Mirko
Nov 17 at 12:14














@Mirko Thank you. I will problably use the first or second and combine it with your suggestion of writing $n in mathbb{Z}, m in mathbb{z}$. Thanks again.
– Nullspace
Nov 17 at 12:24




@Mirko Thank you. I will problably use the first or second and combine it with your suggestion of writing $n in mathbb{Z}, m in mathbb{z}$. Thanks again.
– Nullspace
Nov 17 at 12:24












I just added left and right to your brackets so they matched the height of their contents.
– Robert Frost
Nov 20 at 9:38




I just added left and right to your brackets so they matched the height of their contents.
– Robert Frost
Nov 20 at 9:38










4 Answers
4






active

oldest

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up vote
4
down vote



accepted










$(1)$ and $(2)$ are okay, though I would rather do it with $frac{n}{m}$ instead of $frac{m}{n}$.



In $(2)$ the part $inmathbb Q$ is redundant, but that does not harm correctness.



$(3)$ is wrong (e.g. it demands that $mleq1$)





Actually you cannot speak of "the" correct notation of..., but of "a" correct notation of...






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    up vote
    2
    down vote













    The definition $1$ and $2$ seems correct to me, we could also use for example



    $$Big{ frac{m}{n}in mathbb{Q} ,vert , n,min {1,2,3,4,5}subseteq mathbb{Z}Big} $$






    share|cite|improve this answer





















    • Thanks for your answer. The consesus seems to be that 1 and 2 is ok. I will use on of them with slight modification.
      – Nullspace
      Nov 17 at 12:22


















    up vote
    1
    down vote













    in an axiomatic view of set theory, certain notations that we use are justified by corresponding axioms.
    As the very simplest example of this, the notation ${a,b}$ for a set that has $a$ and $b$ as elements and nothing else, is justified by the Pairing Axiom which states that for any two sets $a,b$ there exists a set $c$ such that $$forall xcolon xin cleftrightarrow x=alor x=b.$$ It also follows that this set is unique and we introduce the notiation ${a,b}$ as a shortcut for "the set $c$ guaranteed to exist by the pairing axiom applied to $a$ and $b$".



    Likewise, the Axiom Scheme of Comprehension states that for any set $a$ and predicate $phi$, there exists a set $c$ such that
    $$forall xcolon xin cleftrightarrow xin aland phi(x).$$
    We usually use the notation ${,xin Amid phi(x),}$ as a shortcut for "the unique set $c$ guaranteed to exist by the comprehension scheme applied to $a$ and $phi$".



    Also, the Axiom Scheme of Replacement states that for every set $a$ and function $F$, there exists a set $c$ such that
    $$forall xcolon xin cleftrightarrow exists tcolon t in aland x=F(t).$$
    We usually use the notation ${,F(t)mid tin a,}$ as a shortcut for "the unique set $c$ guaranteed to exist by the comprehension scheme applied to $a$ and $F$".



    With this in mind, your
    version $(1)$ is a formally correct notation inspired by the Axiom Schema of Replacement.
    This nearly makes version $(2)$ okay as well. However, in order to make it match the Axiom Schema of Comprehension, I would - for extra strictness - prefer to see it in the following form:
    $$tag{2'}{,qinBbb Qmid exists m,nin Bbb Zcolon (1le mle 5land 1le nle 5land q=tfrac mn),}$$



    Note however, that in most contexts, legibility trumps strict formalism and that certain "colloqialsms" usually enter most texts. For example, in the above I myself used $exists m,ninBbb Zcolon ldots$ as a "colloquial" short form for $exists mcolon exists ncolon (min Bbb Zland ninBbb Zlandldots)$.



    Finally, I suppose you mistyped something in $(3)$.



    EDIT: After the original question was edited, variant $(3)$ might be understandable and might be interpreted by many to describe the intended set. However, this variant is quite ambiguous: One can interpret $1le n,mle 5$ as "both numbers $n,m$ are $ge 1$ and $le 5$". But in the same instance, you use the comma as a logical and, thus suggesting another possible reading "$n,min Bbb Z$ and $1le n$ and $mle 5$". I consider this ambiguity fatal. This could be saved by making it clear that you do not habitually use the comma to denote logical conjunction, i.e., write $n,minBbb Zland 1le n,mle 5$.






    share|cite|improve this answer























    • Thank you for that detailed answer. Yeah you are right. I mistyped something in (3). I will fix that quickly.
      – Nullspace
      Nov 17 at 13:12


















    up vote
    0
    down vote













    You could use $$left{frac nm mid (n, m) in [[1,5]]^2right}$$ (not to sure how to obtain the notation for an integer interval on this site, but $[[1,5]]$ is a short way of writing ${1, ..., 5}$)






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    • in what language is $[[1;5]]$ or $[1;5]$ an integer interval? I think I have seen $[1:5]$ or $[1..5]$ not sure myself, perhaps in Python, Haskell. In math one would want to introduce such a notation before formally using it, I don't think it is standard.
      – Mirko
      Nov 17 at 12:20










    • @Mirko In French litterature, it's a standard notation. Thought it was the case in English too!
      – krirkrirk
      Nov 17 at 12:23













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    4 Answers
    4






    active

    oldest

    votes








    4 Answers
    4






    active

    oldest

    votes









    active

    oldest

    votes






    active

    oldest

    votes








    up vote
    4
    down vote



    accepted










    $(1)$ and $(2)$ are okay, though I would rather do it with $frac{n}{m}$ instead of $frac{m}{n}$.



    In $(2)$ the part $inmathbb Q$ is redundant, but that does not harm correctness.



    $(3)$ is wrong (e.g. it demands that $mleq1$)





    Actually you cannot speak of "the" correct notation of..., but of "a" correct notation of...






    share|cite|improve this answer

























      up vote
      4
      down vote



      accepted










      $(1)$ and $(2)$ are okay, though I would rather do it with $frac{n}{m}$ instead of $frac{m}{n}$.



      In $(2)$ the part $inmathbb Q$ is redundant, but that does not harm correctness.



      $(3)$ is wrong (e.g. it demands that $mleq1$)





      Actually you cannot speak of "the" correct notation of..., but of "a" correct notation of...






      share|cite|improve this answer























        up vote
        4
        down vote



        accepted







        up vote
        4
        down vote



        accepted






        $(1)$ and $(2)$ are okay, though I would rather do it with $frac{n}{m}$ instead of $frac{m}{n}$.



        In $(2)$ the part $inmathbb Q$ is redundant, but that does not harm correctness.



        $(3)$ is wrong (e.g. it demands that $mleq1$)





        Actually you cannot speak of "the" correct notation of..., but of "a" correct notation of...






        share|cite|improve this answer












        $(1)$ and $(2)$ are okay, though I would rather do it with $frac{n}{m}$ instead of $frac{m}{n}$.



        In $(2)$ the part $inmathbb Q$ is redundant, but that does not harm correctness.



        $(3)$ is wrong (e.g. it demands that $mleq1$)





        Actually you cannot speak of "the" correct notation of..., but of "a" correct notation of...







        share|cite|improve this answer












        share|cite|improve this answer



        share|cite|improve this answer










        answered Nov 17 at 12:11









        drhab

        94.6k543125




        94.6k543125






















            up vote
            2
            down vote













            The definition $1$ and $2$ seems correct to me, we could also use for example



            $$Big{ frac{m}{n}in mathbb{Q} ,vert , n,min {1,2,3,4,5}subseteq mathbb{Z}Big} $$






            share|cite|improve this answer





















            • Thanks for your answer. The consesus seems to be that 1 and 2 is ok. I will use on of them with slight modification.
              – Nullspace
              Nov 17 at 12:22















            up vote
            2
            down vote













            The definition $1$ and $2$ seems correct to me, we could also use for example



            $$Big{ frac{m}{n}in mathbb{Q} ,vert , n,min {1,2,3,4,5}subseteq mathbb{Z}Big} $$






            share|cite|improve this answer





















            • Thanks for your answer. The consesus seems to be that 1 and 2 is ok. I will use on of them with slight modification.
              – Nullspace
              Nov 17 at 12:22













            up vote
            2
            down vote










            up vote
            2
            down vote









            The definition $1$ and $2$ seems correct to me, we could also use for example



            $$Big{ frac{m}{n}in mathbb{Q} ,vert , n,min {1,2,3,4,5}subseteq mathbb{Z}Big} $$






            share|cite|improve this answer












            The definition $1$ and $2$ seems correct to me, we could also use for example



            $$Big{ frac{m}{n}in mathbb{Q} ,vert , n,min {1,2,3,4,5}subseteq mathbb{Z}Big} $$







            share|cite|improve this answer












            share|cite|improve this answer



            share|cite|improve this answer










            answered Nov 17 at 12:07









            gimusi

            86.6k74393




            86.6k74393












            • Thanks for your answer. The consesus seems to be that 1 and 2 is ok. I will use on of them with slight modification.
              – Nullspace
              Nov 17 at 12:22


















            • Thanks for your answer. The consesus seems to be that 1 and 2 is ok. I will use on of them with slight modification.
              – Nullspace
              Nov 17 at 12:22
















            Thanks for your answer. The consesus seems to be that 1 and 2 is ok. I will use on of them with slight modification.
            – Nullspace
            Nov 17 at 12:22




            Thanks for your answer. The consesus seems to be that 1 and 2 is ok. I will use on of them with slight modification.
            – Nullspace
            Nov 17 at 12:22










            up vote
            1
            down vote













            in an axiomatic view of set theory, certain notations that we use are justified by corresponding axioms.
            As the very simplest example of this, the notation ${a,b}$ for a set that has $a$ and $b$ as elements and nothing else, is justified by the Pairing Axiom which states that for any two sets $a,b$ there exists a set $c$ such that $$forall xcolon xin cleftrightarrow x=alor x=b.$$ It also follows that this set is unique and we introduce the notiation ${a,b}$ as a shortcut for "the set $c$ guaranteed to exist by the pairing axiom applied to $a$ and $b$".



            Likewise, the Axiom Scheme of Comprehension states that for any set $a$ and predicate $phi$, there exists a set $c$ such that
            $$forall xcolon xin cleftrightarrow xin aland phi(x).$$
            We usually use the notation ${,xin Amid phi(x),}$ as a shortcut for "the unique set $c$ guaranteed to exist by the comprehension scheme applied to $a$ and $phi$".



            Also, the Axiom Scheme of Replacement states that for every set $a$ and function $F$, there exists a set $c$ such that
            $$forall xcolon xin cleftrightarrow exists tcolon t in aland x=F(t).$$
            We usually use the notation ${,F(t)mid tin a,}$ as a shortcut for "the unique set $c$ guaranteed to exist by the comprehension scheme applied to $a$ and $F$".



            With this in mind, your
            version $(1)$ is a formally correct notation inspired by the Axiom Schema of Replacement.
            This nearly makes version $(2)$ okay as well. However, in order to make it match the Axiom Schema of Comprehension, I would - for extra strictness - prefer to see it in the following form:
            $$tag{2'}{,qinBbb Qmid exists m,nin Bbb Zcolon (1le mle 5land 1le nle 5land q=tfrac mn),}$$



            Note however, that in most contexts, legibility trumps strict formalism and that certain "colloqialsms" usually enter most texts. For example, in the above I myself used $exists m,ninBbb Zcolon ldots$ as a "colloquial" short form for $exists mcolon exists ncolon (min Bbb Zland ninBbb Zlandldots)$.



            Finally, I suppose you mistyped something in $(3)$.



            EDIT: After the original question was edited, variant $(3)$ might be understandable and might be interpreted by many to describe the intended set. However, this variant is quite ambiguous: One can interpret $1le n,mle 5$ as "both numbers $n,m$ are $ge 1$ and $le 5$". But in the same instance, you use the comma as a logical and, thus suggesting another possible reading "$n,min Bbb Z$ and $1le n$ and $mle 5$". I consider this ambiguity fatal. This could be saved by making it clear that you do not habitually use the comma to denote logical conjunction, i.e., write $n,minBbb Zland 1le n,mle 5$.






            share|cite|improve this answer























            • Thank you for that detailed answer. Yeah you are right. I mistyped something in (3). I will fix that quickly.
              – Nullspace
              Nov 17 at 13:12















            up vote
            1
            down vote













            in an axiomatic view of set theory, certain notations that we use are justified by corresponding axioms.
            As the very simplest example of this, the notation ${a,b}$ for a set that has $a$ and $b$ as elements and nothing else, is justified by the Pairing Axiom which states that for any two sets $a,b$ there exists a set $c$ such that $$forall xcolon xin cleftrightarrow x=alor x=b.$$ It also follows that this set is unique and we introduce the notiation ${a,b}$ as a shortcut for "the set $c$ guaranteed to exist by the pairing axiom applied to $a$ and $b$".



            Likewise, the Axiom Scheme of Comprehension states that for any set $a$ and predicate $phi$, there exists a set $c$ such that
            $$forall xcolon xin cleftrightarrow xin aland phi(x).$$
            We usually use the notation ${,xin Amid phi(x),}$ as a shortcut for "the unique set $c$ guaranteed to exist by the comprehension scheme applied to $a$ and $phi$".



            Also, the Axiom Scheme of Replacement states that for every set $a$ and function $F$, there exists a set $c$ such that
            $$forall xcolon xin cleftrightarrow exists tcolon t in aland x=F(t).$$
            We usually use the notation ${,F(t)mid tin a,}$ as a shortcut for "the unique set $c$ guaranteed to exist by the comprehension scheme applied to $a$ and $F$".



            With this in mind, your
            version $(1)$ is a formally correct notation inspired by the Axiom Schema of Replacement.
            This nearly makes version $(2)$ okay as well. However, in order to make it match the Axiom Schema of Comprehension, I would - for extra strictness - prefer to see it in the following form:
            $$tag{2'}{,qinBbb Qmid exists m,nin Bbb Zcolon (1le mle 5land 1le nle 5land q=tfrac mn),}$$



            Note however, that in most contexts, legibility trumps strict formalism and that certain "colloqialsms" usually enter most texts. For example, in the above I myself used $exists m,ninBbb Zcolon ldots$ as a "colloquial" short form for $exists mcolon exists ncolon (min Bbb Zland ninBbb Zlandldots)$.



            Finally, I suppose you mistyped something in $(3)$.



            EDIT: After the original question was edited, variant $(3)$ might be understandable and might be interpreted by many to describe the intended set. However, this variant is quite ambiguous: One can interpret $1le n,mle 5$ as "both numbers $n,m$ are $ge 1$ and $le 5$". But in the same instance, you use the comma as a logical and, thus suggesting another possible reading "$n,min Bbb Z$ and $1le n$ and $mle 5$". I consider this ambiguity fatal. This could be saved by making it clear that you do not habitually use the comma to denote logical conjunction, i.e., write $n,minBbb Zland 1le n,mle 5$.






            share|cite|improve this answer























            • Thank you for that detailed answer. Yeah you are right. I mistyped something in (3). I will fix that quickly.
              – Nullspace
              Nov 17 at 13:12













            up vote
            1
            down vote










            up vote
            1
            down vote









            in an axiomatic view of set theory, certain notations that we use are justified by corresponding axioms.
            As the very simplest example of this, the notation ${a,b}$ for a set that has $a$ and $b$ as elements and nothing else, is justified by the Pairing Axiom which states that for any two sets $a,b$ there exists a set $c$ such that $$forall xcolon xin cleftrightarrow x=alor x=b.$$ It also follows that this set is unique and we introduce the notiation ${a,b}$ as a shortcut for "the set $c$ guaranteed to exist by the pairing axiom applied to $a$ and $b$".



            Likewise, the Axiom Scheme of Comprehension states that for any set $a$ and predicate $phi$, there exists a set $c$ such that
            $$forall xcolon xin cleftrightarrow xin aland phi(x).$$
            We usually use the notation ${,xin Amid phi(x),}$ as a shortcut for "the unique set $c$ guaranteed to exist by the comprehension scheme applied to $a$ and $phi$".



            Also, the Axiom Scheme of Replacement states that for every set $a$ and function $F$, there exists a set $c$ such that
            $$forall xcolon xin cleftrightarrow exists tcolon t in aland x=F(t).$$
            We usually use the notation ${,F(t)mid tin a,}$ as a shortcut for "the unique set $c$ guaranteed to exist by the comprehension scheme applied to $a$ and $F$".



            With this in mind, your
            version $(1)$ is a formally correct notation inspired by the Axiom Schema of Replacement.
            This nearly makes version $(2)$ okay as well. However, in order to make it match the Axiom Schema of Comprehension, I would - for extra strictness - prefer to see it in the following form:
            $$tag{2'}{,qinBbb Qmid exists m,nin Bbb Zcolon (1le mle 5land 1le nle 5land q=tfrac mn),}$$



            Note however, that in most contexts, legibility trumps strict formalism and that certain "colloqialsms" usually enter most texts. For example, in the above I myself used $exists m,ninBbb Zcolon ldots$ as a "colloquial" short form for $exists mcolon exists ncolon (min Bbb Zland ninBbb Zlandldots)$.



            Finally, I suppose you mistyped something in $(3)$.



            EDIT: After the original question was edited, variant $(3)$ might be understandable and might be interpreted by many to describe the intended set. However, this variant is quite ambiguous: One can interpret $1le n,mle 5$ as "both numbers $n,m$ are $ge 1$ and $le 5$". But in the same instance, you use the comma as a logical and, thus suggesting another possible reading "$n,min Bbb Z$ and $1le n$ and $mle 5$". I consider this ambiguity fatal. This could be saved by making it clear that you do not habitually use the comma to denote logical conjunction, i.e., write $n,minBbb Zland 1le n,mle 5$.






            share|cite|improve this answer














            in an axiomatic view of set theory, certain notations that we use are justified by corresponding axioms.
            As the very simplest example of this, the notation ${a,b}$ for a set that has $a$ and $b$ as elements and nothing else, is justified by the Pairing Axiom which states that for any two sets $a,b$ there exists a set $c$ such that $$forall xcolon xin cleftrightarrow x=alor x=b.$$ It also follows that this set is unique and we introduce the notiation ${a,b}$ as a shortcut for "the set $c$ guaranteed to exist by the pairing axiom applied to $a$ and $b$".



            Likewise, the Axiom Scheme of Comprehension states that for any set $a$ and predicate $phi$, there exists a set $c$ such that
            $$forall xcolon xin cleftrightarrow xin aland phi(x).$$
            We usually use the notation ${,xin Amid phi(x),}$ as a shortcut for "the unique set $c$ guaranteed to exist by the comprehension scheme applied to $a$ and $phi$".



            Also, the Axiom Scheme of Replacement states that for every set $a$ and function $F$, there exists a set $c$ such that
            $$forall xcolon xin cleftrightarrow exists tcolon t in aland x=F(t).$$
            We usually use the notation ${,F(t)mid tin a,}$ as a shortcut for "the unique set $c$ guaranteed to exist by the comprehension scheme applied to $a$ and $F$".



            With this in mind, your
            version $(1)$ is a formally correct notation inspired by the Axiom Schema of Replacement.
            This nearly makes version $(2)$ okay as well. However, in order to make it match the Axiom Schema of Comprehension, I would - for extra strictness - prefer to see it in the following form:
            $$tag{2'}{,qinBbb Qmid exists m,nin Bbb Zcolon (1le mle 5land 1le nle 5land q=tfrac mn),}$$



            Note however, that in most contexts, legibility trumps strict formalism and that certain "colloqialsms" usually enter most texts. For example, in the above I myself used $exists m,ninBbb Zcolon ldots$ as a "colloquial" short form for $exists mcolon exists ncolon (min Bbb Zland ninBbb Zlandldots)$.



            Finally, I suppose you mistyped something in $(3)$.



            EDIT: After the original question was edited, variant $(3)$ might be understandable and might be interpreted by many to describe the intended set. However, this variant is quite ambiguous: One can interpret $1le n,mle 5$ as "both numbers $n,m$ are $ge 1$ and $le 5$". But in the same instance, you use the comma as a logical and, thus suggesting another possible reading "$n,min Bbb Z$ and $1le n$ and $mle 5$". I consider this ambiguity fatal. This could be saved by making it clear that you do not habitually use the comma to denote logical conjunction, i.e., write $n,minBbb Zland 1le n,mle 5$.







            share|cite|improve this answer














            share|cite|improve this answer



            share|cite|improve this answer








            edited Nov 17 at 21:29

























            answered Nov 17 at 12:32









            Hagen von Eitzen

            274k21266494




            274k21266494












            • Thank you for that detailed answer. Yeah you are right. I mistyped something in (3). I will fix that quickly.
              – Nullspace
              Nov 17 at 13:12


















            • Thank you for that detailed answer. Yeah you are right. I mistyped something in (3). I will fix that quickly.
              – Nullspace
              Nov 17 at 13:12
















            Thank you for that detailed answer. Yeah you are right. I mistyped something in (3). I will fix that quickly.
            – Nullspace
            Nov 17 at 13:12




            Thank you for that detailed answer. Yeah you are right. I mistyped something in (3). I will fix that quickly.
            – Nullspace
            Nov 17 at 13:12










            up vote
            0
            down vote













            You could use $$left{frac nm mid (n, m) in [[1,5]]^2right}$$ (not to sure how to obtain the notation for an integer interval on this site, but $[[1,5]]$ is a short way of writing ${1, ..., 5}$)






            share|cite|improve this answer























            • in what language is $[[1;5]]$ or $[1;5]$ an integer interval? I think I have seen $[1:5]$ or $[1..5]$ not sure myself, perhaps in Python, Haskell. In math one would want to introduce such a notation before formally using it, I don't think it is standard.
              – Mirko
              Nov 17 at 12:20










            • @Mirko In French litterature, it's a standard notation. Thought it was the case in English too!
              – krirkrirk
              Nov 17 at 12:23

















            up vote
            0
            down vote













            You could use $$left{frac nm mid (n, m) in [[1,5]]^2right}$$ (not to sure how to obtain the notation for an integer interval on this site, but $[[1,5]]$ is a short way of writing ${1, ..., 5}$)






            share|cite|improve this answer























            • in what language is $[[1;5]]$ or $[1;5]$ an integer interval? I think I have seen $[1:5]$ or $[1..5]$ not sure myself, perhaps in Python, Haskell. In math one would want to introduce such a notation before formally using it, I don't think it is standard.
              – Mirko
              Nov 17 at 12:20










            • @Mirko In French litterature, it's a standard notation. Thought it was the case in English too!
              – krirkrirk
              Nov 17 at 12:23















            up vote
            0
            down vote










            up vote
            0
            down vote









            You could use $$left{frac nm mid (n, m) in [[1,5]]^2right}$$ (not to sure how to obtain the notation for an integer interval on this site, but $[[1,5]]$ is a short way of writing ${1, ..., 5}$)






            share|cite|improve this answer














            You could use $$left{frac nm mid (n, m) in [[1,5]]^2right}$$ (not to sure how to obtain the notation for an integer interval on this site, but $[[1,5]]$ is a short way of writing ${1, ..., 5}$)







            share|cite|improve this answer














            share|cite|improve this answer



            share|cite|improve this answer








            edited Nov 17 at 12:23

























            answered Nov 17 at 12:16









            krirkrirk

            1,460518




            1,460518












            • in what language is $[[1;5]]$ or $[1;5]$ an integer interval? I think I have seen $[1:5]$ or $[1..5]$ not sure myself, perhaps in Python, Haskell. In math one would want to introduce such a notation before formally using it, I don't think it is standard.
              – Mirko
              Nov 17 at 12:20










            • @Mirko In French litterature, it's a standard notation. Thought it was the case in English too!
              – krirkrirk
              Nov 17 at 12:23




















            • in what language is $[[1;5]]$ or $[1;5]$ an integer interval? I think I have seen $[1:5]$ or $[1..5]$ not sure myself, perhaps in Python, Haskell. In math one would want to introduce such a notation before formally using it, I don't think it is standard.
              – Mirko
              Nov 17 at 12:20










            • @Mirko In French litterature, it's a standard notation. Thought it was the case in English too!
              – krirkrirk
              Nov 17 at 12:23


















            in what language is $[[1;5]]$ or $[1;5]$ an integer interval? I think I have seen $[1:5]$ or $[1..5]$ not sure myself, perhaps in Python, Haskell. In math one would want to introduce such a notation before formally using it, I don't think it is standard.
            – Mirko
            Nov 17 at 12:20




            in what language is $[[1;5]]$ or $[1;5]$ an integer interval? I think I have seen $[1:5]$ or $[1..5]$ not sure myself, perhaps in Python, Haskell. In math one would want to introduce such a notation before formally using it, I don't think it is standard.
            – Mirko
            Nov 17 at 12:20












            @Mirko In French litterature, it's a standard notation. Thought it was the case in English too!
            – krirkrirk
            Nov 17 at 12:23






            @Mirko In French litterature, it's a standard notation. Thought it was the case in English too!
            – krirkrirk
            Nov 17 at 12:23




















             

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