Help with computation and Gröbner basis












2












$begingroup$


I am learning a new software and a new topic (Gröbner basis). I have the following system of polynomial equations



$$begin{align}
6-21(x_1x_2+x_1x_3+x_1x_4) &= 0 \
10-21(x_2x_1+x_2x_3+x_2x_4) &= 0 \
12-21(x_3x_1+x_3x_2+x_3x_4) &= 0 \
14-21(x_4x_1+x_4x_2+x_4x_3) &= 0
end{align}$$



and I need to find the number of solutions. I have been told I need to use Gröbner basis. The problem is that I do not know for what ideal I am supposed to find the Gröbner basis.



Secondly, if someone has experience with Macaulay2, I would appreciate if he can walk me through how we input this. What I was thinking was QQ[x1,x2,x3,x4, MonomialTOrder =>Lex] to get a ring and then use lex. Then I= ideal( ) here my lack of understanding kicks in.



Thank you guys for the time and patience.










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$endgroup$












  • $begingroup$
    "CoCoA" can compute Gröbner basis with the command "GBasis(I)"
    $endgroup$
    – user 1
    May 16 '15 at 6:12
















2












$begingroup$


I am learning a new software and a new topic (Gröbner basis). I have the following system of polynomial equations



$$begin{align}
6-21(x_1x_2+x_1x_3+x_1x_4) &= 0 \
10-21(x_2x_1+x_2x_3+x_2x_4) &= 0 \
12-21(x_3x_1+x_3x_2+x_3x_4) &= 0 \
14-21(x_4x_1+x_4x_2+x_4x_3) &= 0
end{align}$$



and I need to find the number of solutions. I have been told I need to use Gröbner basis. The problem is that I do not know for what ideal I am supposed to find the Gröbner basis.



Secondly, if someone has experience with Macaulay2, I would appreciate if he can walk me through how we input this. What I was thinking was QQ[x1,x2,x3,x4, MonomialTOrder =>Lex] to get a ring and then use lex. Then I= ideal( ) here my lack of understanding kicks in.



Thank you guys for the time and patience.










share|cite|improve this question











$endgroup$












  • $begingroup$
    "CoCoA" can compute Gröbner basis with the command "GBasis(I)"
    $endgroup$
    – user 1
    May 16 '15 at 6:12














2












2








2


2



$begingroup$


I am learning a new software and a new topic (Gröbner basis). I have the following system of polynomial equations



$$begin{align}
6-21(x_1x_2+x_1x_3+x_1x_4) &= 0 \
10-21(x_2x_1+x_2x_3+x_2x_4) &= 0 \
12-21(x_3x_1+x_3x_2+x_3x_4) &= 0 \
14-21(x_4x_1+x_4x_2+x_4x_3) &= 0
end{align}$$



and I need to find the number of solutions. I have been told I need to use Gröbner basis. The problem is that I do not know for what ideal I am supposed to find the Gröbner basis.



Secondly, if someone has experience with Macaulay2, I would appreciate if he can walk me through how we input this. What I was thinking was QQ[x1,x2,x3,x4, MonomialTOrder =>Lex] to get a ring and then use lex. Then I= ideal( ) here my lack of understanding kicks in.



Thank you guys for the time and patience.










share|cite|improve this question











$endgroup$




I am learning a new software and a new topic (Gröbner basis). I have the following system of polynomial equations



$$begin{align}
6-21(x_1x_2+x_1x_3+x_1x_4) &= 0 \
10-21(x_2x_1+x_2x_3+x_2x_4) &= 0 \
12-21(x_3x_1+x_3x_2+x_3x_4) &= 0 \
14-21(x_4x_1+x_4x_2+x_4x_3) &= 0
end{align}$$



and I need to find the number of solutions. I have been told I need to use Gröbner basis. The problem is that I do not know for what ideal I am supposed to find the Gröbner basis.



Secondly, if someone has experience with Macaulay2, I would appreciate if he can walk me through how we input this. What I was thinking was QQ[x1,x2,x3,x4, MonomialTOrder =>Lex] to get a ring and then use lex. Then I= ideal( ) here my lack of understanding kicks in.



Thank you guys for the time and patience.







commutative-algebra groebner-basis macaulay2






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edited Dec 9 '18 at 0:15









Rodrigo de Azevedo

12.9k41857




12.9k41857










asked May 15 '15 at 17:33









KoriKori

6561519




6561519












  • $begingroup$
    "CoCoA" can compute Gröbner basis with the command "GBasis(I)"
    $endgroup$
    – user 1
    May 16 '15 at 6:12


















  • $begingroup$
    "CoCoA" can compute Gröbner basis with the command "GBasis(I)"
    $endgroup$
    – user 1
    May 16 '15 at 6:12
















$begingroup$
"CoCoA" can compute Gröbner basis with the command "GBasis(I)"
$endgroup$
– user 1
May 16 '15 at 6:12




$begingroup$
"CoCoA" can compute Gröbner basis with the command "GBasis(I)"
$endgroup$
– user 1
May 16 '15 at 6:12










1 Answer
1






active

oldest

votes


















4












$begingroup$

Entering



R=QQ[x_1,x_2,x_3,x_4,MonomialOrder=>Lex]
I=ideal(6-21*(x_1*x_2+x_1*x_3+x_1*x_4),10-21*(x_2*x_1+x_2*x_3+x_2*x_4),12-21*(x_3*x_1+x_3*x_2+x_3*x_4),14-21*(x_4*x_1+x_4*x_2+x_4*x_3))
gens gb I


in Macaulay2 yields



$(9261x_4^8+11907x_4^6+2119x_4^4-2083x_4^2-660,\14868x_3+1713285x_4^7+1397088x_4^5-282715x_4^3-263654x_4,\36344x_2-4806459x_4^7-3836700x_4^5+724215x_4^3+703040x_4,\49560x_1+379701x_4^7-21168x_4^5-151261x_4^3+24432x_4)$.



The first generator is in $x_4$ only and set to $0$ has $8$ complex solutions, two real by wolfram alpha. The other generators have $x_i, i=1,2,3$ enter linearly so they are determined uniquely by $x_4$.





Added: For the actual solutions, add toString oo to the commands above, and get:



matrix {{9261*x_4^8+11907*x_4^6+2119*x_4^4-2083*x_4^2-660,
14868*x_3+1713285*x_4^7+1397088*x_4^5-282715*x_4^3-263654*x_4,
36344*x_2-4806459*x_4^7-3836700*x_4^5+724215*x_4^3+703040*x_4,
49560*x_1+379701*x_4^7-21168*x_4^5-151261*x_4^3+24432*x_4}}


Then go to, say, maxima, setting $x_4^2=t$



allroots(ratsubst(t,x_4^2,9261*x_4^8+11907*x_4^6+2119*x_4^4-2083*x_4^2-660));


[t = 0.418936018521825, t = - 0.4422977258287621, t = - 0.5138272911813384, t = - 0.7485252872260103]



Then to take one of the eight $x_4=pm sqrt{t}$



x_4:sqrt(0.418936018521825);
float(solve(14868*x_3+1713285*x_4^7+1397088*x_4^5-282715*x_4^3-263654*x_4,x_3));
float(solve(36344*x_2-4806459*x_4^7-3836700*x_4^5+724215*x_4^3+703040*x_4,x_2));
float(solve(49560*x_1+379701*x_4^7-21168*x_4^5-151261*x_4^3+24432*x_4,x_1));
x_4:'x_4;


we get $(x_1,x_2,x_3,x_4) approx (0.1924229778886889, 0.3620745025257184, 0.4754969835800162, 0.6472526697680164)$



The other seven are:



$(-0.1924229778886889, -0.3620745025257184, -0.4754969835800162, -0.6472526697680164)$,



$(-0.7291921856328131 i, -0.8790682559168096 i, 0.6058365989819648 i, 0.6650546788263069 i)$,



$(0.7291921856328131 i, 0.8790682559168096 i, -0.6058365989819648 i, -0.6650546788263069 i)$,



$(-0.6516600637949471 i, 0.5916424877796417 i, -0.8700192754156101 i, 0.7168174741043486 i)$,



$(0.6516600637949471 i, -0.5916424877796417 i, 0.8700192754156101 i, -0.7168174741043486 i)$,



$(0.5839194982220037 i, -0.6443776225155836 i, -0.7101001755028209 i, 0.8651735590192353 i)$,



$(-0.5839194982220037 i, 0.6443776225155836 i, 0.7101001755028209 i, -0.8651735590192353 i)$






share|cite|improve this answer











$endgroup$













  • $begingroup$
    Sorry one small question say I am interested what the actual solutions are what command can we use in Macaulay 2
    $endgroup$
    – Kori
    May 25 '15 at 17:42










  • $begingroup$
    @Kori Macaulay2 doesn't cater for the rest. I added some maxima code.
    $endgroup$
    – Jan-Magnus Økland
    May 25 '15 at 20:00











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1 Answer
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active

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1 Answer
1






active

oldest

votes









active

oldest

votes






active

oldest

votes









4












$begingroup$

Entering



R=QQ[x_1,x_2,x_3,x_4,MonomialOrder=>Lex]
I=ideal(6-21*(x_1*x_2+x_1*x_3+x_1*x_4),10-21*(x_2*x_1+x_2*x_3+x_2*x_4),12-21*(x_3*x_1+x_3*x_2+x_3*x_4),14-21*(x_4*x_1+x_4*x_2+x_4*x_3))
gens gb I


in Macaulay2 yields



$(9261x_4^8+11907x_4^6+2119x_4^4-2083x_4^2-660,\14868x_3+1713285x_4^7+1397088x_4^5-282715x_4^3-263654x_4,\36344x_2-4806459x_4^7-3836700x_4^5+724215x_4^3+703040x_4,\49560x_1+379701x_4^7-21168x_4^5-151261x_4^3+24432x_4)$.



The first generator is in $x_4$ only and set to $0$ has $8$ complex solutions, two real by wolfram alpha. The other generators have $x_i, i=1,2,3$ enter linearly so they are determined uniquely by $x_4$.





Added: For the actual solutions, add toString oo to the commands above, and get:



matrix {{9261*x_4^8+11907*x_4^6+2119*x_4^4-2083*x_4^2-660,
14868*x_3+1713285*x_4^7+1397088*x_4^5-282715*x_4^3-263654*x_4,
36344*x_2-4806459*x_4^7-3836700*x_4^5+724215*x_4^3+703040*x_4,
49560*x_1+379701*x_4^7-21168*x_4^5-151261*x_4^3+24432*x_4}}


Then go to, say, maxima, setting $x_4^2=t$



allroots(ratsubst(t,x_4^2,9261*x_4^8+11907*x_4^6+2119*x_4^4-2083*x_4^2-660));


[t = 0.418936018521825, t = - 0.4422977258287621, t = - 0.5138272911813384, t = - 0.7485252872260103]



Then to take one of the eight $x_4=pm sqrt{t}$



x_4:sqrt(0.418936018521825);
float(solve(14868*x_3+1713285*x_4^7+1397088*x_4^5-282715*x_4^3-263654*x_4,x_3));
float(solve(36344*x_2-4806459*x_4^7-3836700*x_4^5+724215*x_4^3+703040*x_4,x_2));
float(solve(49560*x_1+379701*x_4^7-21168*x_4^5-151261*x_4^3+24432*x_4,x_1));
x_4:'x_4;


we get $(x_1,x_2,x_3,x_4) approx (0.1924229778886889, 0.3620745025257184, 0.4754969835800162, 0.6472526697680164)$



The other seven are:



$(-0.1924229778886889, -0.3620745025257184, -0.4754969835800162, -0.6472526697680164)$,



$(-0.7291921856328131 i, -0.8790682559168096 i, 0.6058365989819648 i, 0.6650546788263069 i)$,



$(0.7291921856328131 i, 0.8790682559168096 i, -0.6058365989819648 i, -0.6650546788263069 i)$,



$(-0.6516600637949471 i, 0.5916424877796417 i, -0.8700192754156101 i, 0.7168174741043486 i)$,



$(0.6516600637949471 i, -0.5916424877796417 i, 0.8700192754156101 i, -0.7168174741043486 i)$,



$(0.5839194982220037 i, -0.6443776225155836 i, -0.7101001755028209 i, 0.8651735590192353 i)$,



$(-0.5839194982220037 i, 0.6443776225155836 i, 0.7101001755028209 i, -0.8651735590192353 i)$






share|cite|improve this answer











$endgroup$













  • $begingroup$
    Sorry one small question say I am interested what the actual solutions are what command can we use in Macaulay 2
    $endgroup$
    – Kori
    May 25 '15 at 17:42










  • $begingroup$
    @Kori Macaulay2 doesn't cater for the rest. I added some maxima code.
    $endgroup$
    – Jan-Magnus Økland
    May 25 '15 at 20:00
















4












$begingroup$

Entering



R=QQ[x_1,x_2,x_3,x_4,MonomialOrder=>Lex]
I=ideal(6-21*(x_1*x_2+x_1*x_3+x_1*x_4),10-21*(x_2*x_1+x_2*x_3+x_2*x_4),12-21*(x_3*x_1+x_3*x_2+x_3*x_4),14-21*(x_4*x_1+x_4*x_2+x_4*x_3))
gens gb I


in Macaulay2 yields



$(9261x_4^8+11907x_4^6+2119x_4^4-2083x_4^2-660,\14868x_3+1713285x_4^7+1397088x_4^5-282715x_4^3-263654x_4,\36344x_2-4806459x_4^7-3836700x_4^5+724215x_4^3+703040x_4,\49560x_1+379701x_4^7-21168x_4^5-151261x_4^3+24432x_4)$.



The first generator is in $x_4$ only and set to $0$ has $8$ complex solutions, two real by wolfram alpha. The other generators have $x_i, i=1,2,3$ enter linearly so they are determined uniquely by $x_4$.





Added: For the actual solutions, add toString oo to the commands above, and get:



matrix {{9261*x_4^8+11907*x_4^6+2119*x_4^4-2083*x_4^2-660,
14868*x_3+1713285*x_4^7+1397088*x_4^5-282715*x_4^3-263654*x_4,
36344*x_2-4806459*x_4^7-3836700*x_4^5+724215*x_4^3+703040*x_4,
49560*x_1+379701*x_4^7-21168*x_4^5-151261*x_4^3+24432*x_4}}


Then go to, say, maxima, setting $x_4^2=t$



allroots(ratsubst(t,x_4^2,9261*x_4^8+11907*x_4^6+2119*x_4^4-2083*x_4^2-660));


[t = 0.418936018521825, t = - 0.4422977258287621, t = - 0.5138272911813384, t = - 0.7485252872260103]



Then to take one of the eight $x_4=pm sqrt{t}$



x_4:sqrt(0.418936018521825);
float(solve(14868*x_3+1713285*x_4^7+1397088*x_4^5-282715*x_4^3-263654*x_4,x_3));
float(solve(36344*x_2-4806459*x_4^7-3836700*x_4^5+724215*x_4^3+703040*x_4,x_2));
float(solve(49560*x_1+379701*x_4^7-21168*x_4^5-151261*x_4^3+24432*x_4,x_1));
x_4:'x_4;


we get $(x_1,x_2,x_3,x_4) approx (0.1924229778886889, 0.3620745025257184, 0.4754969835800162, 0.6472526697680164)$



The other seven are:



$(-0.1924229778886889, -0.3620745025257184, -0.4754969835800162, -0.6472526697680164)$,



$(-0.7291921856328131 i, -0.8790682559168096 i, 0.6058365989819648 i, 0.6650546788263069 i)$,



$(0.7291921856328131 i, 0.8790682559168096 i, -0.6058365989819648 i, -0.6650546788263069 i)$,



$(-0.6516600637949471 i, 0.5916424877796417 i, -0.8700192754156101 i, 0.7168174741043486 i)$,



$(0.6516600637949471 i, -0.5916424877796417 i, 0.8700192754156101 i, -0.7168174741043486 i)$,



$(0.5839194982220037 i, -0.6443776225155836 i, -0.7101001755028209 i, 0.8651735590192353 i)$,



$(-0.5839194982220037 i, 0.6443776225155836 i, 0.7101001755028209 i, -0.8651735590192353 i)$






share|cite|improve this answer











$endgroup$













  • $begingroup$
    Sorry one small question say I am interested what the actual solutions are what command can we use in Macaulay 2
    $endgroup$
    – Kori
    May 25 '15 at 17:42










  • $begingroup$
    @Kori Macaulay2 doesn't cater for the rest. I added some maxima code.
    $endgroup$
    – Jan-Magnus Økland
    May 25 '15 at 20:00














4












4








4





$begingroup$

Entering



R=QQ[x_1,x_2,x_3,x_4,MonomialOrder=>Lex]
I=ideal(6-21*(x_1*x_2+x_1*x_3+x_1*x_4),10-21*(x_2*x_1+x_2*x_3+x_2*x_4),12-21*(x_3*x_1+x_3*x_2+x_3*x_4),14-21*(x_4*x_1+x_4*x_2+x_4*x_3))
gens gb I


in Macaulay2 yields



$(9261x_4^8+11907x_4^6+2119x_4^4-2083x_4^2-660,\14868x_3+1713285x_4^7+1397088x_4^5-282715x_4^3-263654x_4,\36344x_2-4806459x_4^7-3836700x_4^5+724215x_4^3+703040x_4,\49560x_1+379701x_4^7-21168x_4^5-151261x_4^3+24432x_4)$.



The first generator is in $x_4$ only and set to $0$ has $8$ complex solutions, two real by wolfram alpha. The other generators have $x_i, i=1,2,3$ enter linearly so they are determined uniquely by $x_4$.





Added: For the actual solutions, add toString oo to the commands above, and get:



matrix {{9261*x_4^8+11907*x_4^6+2119*x_4^4-2083*x_4^2-660,
14868*x_3+1713285*x_4^7+1397088*x_4^5-282715*x_4^3-263654*x_4,
36344*x_2-4806459*x_4^7-3836700*x_4^5+724215*x_4^3+703040*x_4,
49560*x_1+379701*x_4^7-21168*x_4^5-151261*x_4^3+24432*x_4}}


Then go to, say, maxima, setting $x_4^2=t$



allroots(ratsubst(t,x_4^2,9261*x_4^8+11907*x_4^6+2119*x_4^4-2083*x_4^2-660));


[t = 0.418936018521825, t = - 0.4422977258287621, t = - 0.5138272911813384, t = - 0.7485252872260103]



Then to take one of the eight $x_4=pm sqrt{t}$



x_4:sqrt(0.418936018521825);
float(solve(14868*x_3+1713285*x_4^7+1397088*x_4^5-282715*x_4^3-263654*x_4,x_3));
float(solve(36344*x_2-4806459*x_4^7-3836700*x_4^5+724215*x_4^3+703040*x_4,x_2));
float(solve(49560*x_1+379701*x_4^7-21168*x_4^5-151261*x_4^3+24432*x_4,x_1));
x_4:'x_4;


we get $(x_1,x_2,x_3,x_4) approx (0.1924229778886889, 0.3620745025257184, 0.4754969835800162, 0.6472526697680164)$



The other seven are:



$(-0.1924229778886889, -0.3620745025257184, -0.4754969835800162, -0.6472526697680164)$,



$(-0.7291921856328131 i, -0.8790682559168096 i, 0.6058365989819648 i, 0.6650546788263069 i)$,



$(0.7291921856328131 i, 0.8790682559168096 i, -0.6058365989819648 i, -0.6650546788263069 i)$,



$(-0.6516600637949471 i, 0.5916424877796417 i, -0.8700192754156101 i, 0.7168174741043486 i)$,



$(0.6516600637949471 i, -0.5916424877796417 i, 0.8700192754156101 i, -0.7168174741043486 i)$,



$(0.5839194982220037 i, -0.6443776225155836 i, -0.7101001755028209 i, 0.8651735590192353 i)$,



$(-0.5839194982220037 i, 0.6443776225155836 i, 0.7101001755028209 i, -0.8651735590192353 i)$






share|cite|improve this answer











$endgroup$



Entering



R=QQ[x_1,x_2,x_3,x_4,MonomialOrder=>Lex]
I=ideal(6-21*(x_1*x_2+x_1*x_3+x_1*x_4),10-21*(x_2*x_1+x_2*x_3+x_2*x_4),12-21*(x_3*x_1+x_3*x_2+x_3*x_4),14-21*(x_4*x_1+x_4*x_2+x_4*x_3))
gens gb I


in Macaulay2 yields



$(9261x_4^8+11907x_4^6+2119x_4^4-2083x_4^2-660,\14868x_3+1713285x_4^7+1397088x_4^5-282715x_4^3-263654x_4,\36344x_2-4806459x_4^7-3836700x_4^5+724215x_4^3+703040x_4,\49560x_1+379701x_4^7-21168x_4^5-151261x_4^3+24432x_4)$.



The first generator is in $x_4$ only and set to $0$ has $8$ complex solutions, two real by wolfram alpha. The other generators have $x_i, i=1,2,3$ enter linearly so they are determined uniquely by $x_4$.





Added: For the actual solutions, add toString oo to the commands above, and get:



matrix {{9261*x_4^8+11907*x_4^6+2119*x_4^4-2083*x_4^2-660,
14868*x_3+1713285*x_4^7+1397088*x_4^5-282715*x_4^3-263654*x_4,
36344*x_2-4806459*x_4^7-3836700*x_4^5+724215*x_4^3+703040*x_4,
49560*x_1+379701*x_4^7-21168*x_4^5-151261*x_4^3+24432*x_4}}


Then go to, say, maxima, setting $x_4^2=t$



allroots(ratsubst(t,x_4^2,9261*x_4^8+11907*x_4^6+2119*x_4^4-2083*x_4^2-660));


[t = 0.418936018521825, t = - 0.4422977258287621, t = - 0.5138272911813384, t = - 0.7485252872260103]



Then to take one of the eight $x_4=pm sqrt{t}$



x_4:sqrt(0.418936018521825);
float(solve(14868*x_3+1713285*x_4^7+1397088*x_4^5-282715*x_4^3-263654*x_4,x_3));
float(solve(36344*x_2-4806459*x_4^7-3836700*x_4^5+724215*x_4^3+703040*x_4,x_2));
float(solve(49560*x_1+379701*x_4^7-21168*x_4^5-151261*x_4^3+24432*x_4,x_1));
x_4:'x_4;


we get $(x_1,x_2,x_3,x_4) approx (0.1924229778886889, 0.3620745025257184, 0.4754969835800162, 0.6472526697680164)$



The other seven are:



$(-0.1924229778886889, -0.3620745025257184, -0.4754969835800162, -0.6472526697680164)$,



$(-0.7291921856328131 i, -0.8790682559168096 i, 0.6058365989819648 i, 0.6650546788263069 i)$,



$(0.7291921856328131 i, 0.8790682559168096 i, -0.6058365989819648 i, -0.6650546788263069 i)$,



$(-0.6516600637949471 i, 0.5916424877796417 i, -0.8700192754156101 i, 0.7168174741043486 i)$,



$(0.6516600637949471 i, -0.5916424877796417 i, 0.8700192754156101 i, -0.7168174741043486 i)$,



$(0.5839194982220037 i, -0.6443776225155836 i, -0.7101001755028209 i, 0.8651735590192353 i)$,



$(-0.5839194982220037 i, 0.6443776225155836 i, 0.7101001755028209 i, -0.8651735590192353 i)$







share|cite|improve this answer














share|cite|improve this answer



share|cite|improve this answer








edited May 26 '15 at 1:51

























answered May 15 '15 at 18:46









Jan-Magnus ØklandJan-Magnus Økland

1,9111914




1,9111914












  • $begingroup$
    Sorry one small question say I am interested what the actual solutions are what command can we use in Macaulay 2
    $endgroup$
    – Kori
    May 25 '15 at 17:42










  • $begingroup$
    @Kori Macaulay2 doesn't cater for the rest. I added some maxima code.
    $endgroup$
    – Jan-Magnus Økland
    May 25 '15 at 20:00


















  • $begingroup$
    Sorry one small question say I am interested what the actual solutions are what command can we use in Macaulay 2
    $endgroup$
    – Kori
    May 25 '15 at 17:42










  • $begingroup$
    @Kori Macaulay2 doesn't cater for the rest. I added some maxima code.
    $endgroup$
    – Jan-Magnus Økland
    May 25 '15 at 20:00
















$begingroup$
Sorry one small question say I am interested what the actual solutions are what command can we use in Macaulay 2
$endgroup$
– Kori
May 25 '15 at 17:42




$begingroup$
Sorry one small question say I am interested what the actual solutions are what command can we use in Macaulay 2
$endgroup$
– Kori
May 25 '15 at 17:42












$begingroup$
@Kori Macaulay2 doesn't cater for the rest. I added some maxima code.
$endgroup$
– Jan-Magnus Økland
May 25 '15 at 20:00




$begingroup$
@Kori Macaulay2 doesn't cater for the rest. I added some maxima code.
$endgroup$
– Jan-Magnus Økland
May 25 '15 at 20:00


















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