Defining unordered pairs in set theory












1












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I am reading Naive Set Theory by Paul Halmos and am on section 3 (page 9) where he is talking about the axiom of pairing. In his explanation he states that a and b are two sets and A is the set containing a and b. He defines the unordered pair {a,b} as



$$ {x epsilon A: x=a or x=b} $$



He then says that this set contains a and b.
I have three questions about this:




  1. How do we know that the set/unordered pair contains both of the sets a and b if the condition for the element x of the given set is that it is equal to a or equal to b (I'm interpreting the 'or' as the logical operator).


  2. If A had no elements other than the sets a and b, does A={a,b}?


  3. Is {a,b} read as 'the set containing a and b (and the empty set)'?











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$endgroup$








  • 2




    $begingroup$
    The word "contains" is ambiguous and sometimes means "as an element" and sometimes "as a subset". If $x$ is an element of $X$, then it is not necessarily a subset. So $X$ contains $x$ as an element, but not necessarily as a subset.
    $endgroup$
    – Asaf Karagila
    Dec 28 '18 at 7:56










  • $begingroup$
    Further to @AsafKaragila's point, in terms of subsets it "contains" ${a}$ etc.
    $endgroup$
    – J.G.
    Dec 28 '18 at 8:14
















1












$begingroup$


I am reading Naive Set Theory by Paul Halmos and am on section 3 (page 9) where he is talking about the axiom of pairing. In his explanation he states that a and b are two sets and A is the set containing a and b. He defines the unordered pair {a,b} as



$$ {x epsilon A: x=a or x=b} $$



He then says that this set contains a and b.
I have three questions about this:




  1. How do we know that the set/unordered pair contains both of the sets a and b if the condition for the element x of the given set is that it is equal to a or equal to b (I'm interpreting the 'or' as the logical operator).


  2. If A had no elements other than the sets a and b, does A={a,b}?


  3. Is {a,b} read as 'the set containing a and b (and the empty set)'?











share|cite|improve this question









$endgroup$








  • 2




    $begingroup$
    The word "contains" is ambiguous and sometimes means "as an element" and sometimes "as a subset". If $x$ is an element of $X$, then it is not necessarily a subset. So $X$ contains $x$ as an element, but not necessarily as a subset.
    $endgroup$
    – Asaf Karagila
    Dec 28 '18 at 7:56










  • $begingroup$
    Further to @AsafKaragila's point, in terms of subsets it "contains" ${a}$ etc.
    $endgroup$
    – J.G.
    Dec 28 '18 at 8:14














1












1








1





$begingroup$


I am reading Naive Set Theory by Paul Halmos and am on section 3 (page 9) where he is talking about the axiom of pairing. In his explanation he states that a and b are two sets and A is the set containing a and b. He defines the unordered pair {a,b} as



$$ {x epsilon A: x=a or x=b} $$



He then says that this set contains a and b.
I have three questions about this:




  1. How do we know that the set/unordered pair contains both of the sets a and b if the condition for the element x of the given set is that it is equal to a or equal to b (I'm interpreting the 'or' as the logical operator).


  2. If A had no elements other than the sets a and b, does A={a,b}?


  3. Is {a,b} read as 'the set containing a and b (and the empty set)'?











share|cite|improve this question









$endgroup$




I am reading Naive Set Theory by Paul Halmos and am on section 3 (page 9) where he is talking about the axiom of pairing. In his explanation he states that a and b are two sets and A is the set containing a and b. He defines the unordered pair {a,b} as



$$ {x epsilon A: x=a or x=b} $$



He then says that this set contains a and b.
I have three questions about this:




  1. How do we know that the set/unordered pair contains both of the sets a and b if the condition for the element x of the given set is that it is equal to a or equal to b (I'm interpreting the 'or' as the logical operator).


  2. If A had no elements other than the sets a and b, does A={a,b}?


  3. Is {a,b} read as 'the set containing a and b (and the empty set)'?








elementary-set-theory definition






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asked Dec 28 '18 at 7:43









LachieLachie

82




82








  • 2




    $begingroup$
    The word "contains" is ambiguous and sometimes means "as an element" and sometimes "as a subset". If $x$ is an element of $X$, then it is not necessarily a subset. So $X$ contains $x$ as an element, but not necessarily as a subset.
    $endgroup$
    – Asaf Karagila
    Dec 28 '18 at 7:56










  • $begingroup$
    Further to @AsafKaragila's point, in terms of subsets it "contains" ${a}$ etc.
    $endgroup$
    – J.G.
    Dec 28 '18 at 8:14














  • 2




    $begingroup$
    The word "contains" is ambiguous and sometimes means "as an element" and sometimes "as a subset". If $x$ is an element of $X$, then it is not necessarily a subset. So $X$ contains $x$ as an element, but not necessarily as a subset.
    $endgroup$
    – Asaf Karagila
    Dec 28 '18 at 7:56










  • $begingroup$
    Further to @AsafKaragila's point, in terms of subsets it "contains" ${a}$ etc.
    $endgroup$
    – J.G.
    Dec 28 '18 at 8:14








2




2




$begingroup$
The word "contains" is ambiguous and sometimes means "as an element" and sometimes "as a subset". If $x$ is an element of $X$, then it is not necessarily a subset. So $X$ contains $x$ as an element, but not necessarily as a subset.
$endgroup$
– Asaf Karagila
Dec 28 '18 at 7:56




$begingroup$
The word "contains" is ambiguous and sometimes means "as an element" and sometimes "as a subset". If $x$ is an element of $X$, then it is not necessarily a subset. So $X$ contains $x$ as an element, but not necessarily as a subset.
$endgroup$
– Asaf Karagila
Dec 28 '18 at 7:56












$begingroup$
Further to @AsafKaragila's point, in terms of subsets it "contains" ${a}$ etc.
$endgroup$
– J.G.
Dec 28 '18 at 8:14




$begingroup$
Further to @AsafKaragila's point, in terms of subsets it "contains" ${a}$ etc.
$endgroup$
– J.G.
Dec 28 '18 at 8:14










2 Answers
2






active

oldest

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3












$begingroup$

I think you mean that $A$ is a set containing $a$ and $b$ (but perhaps contains other sets, so there could be other sets containing both $a$ and $b$—like ${a,b}$ itself). There is not such thing as the set containing $a$ and $b$.



What there is, though, is the set containing exactly $a$ and $b$ and nothing else; what is defined as ${a,b}$. Don't be confused by the or in the definition: it is not a set containing $a$ or $b$, but the set whose elements $x$ are in $A$ and also satisfy the condition $x=a vee x=b$. If $x=a$, then satisfies the condition, and so
$$x=ain {a,b};$$
if $x=b$, then satisfies the condition, and so
$$x=bin {a,b};$$
if none of $x=a$ or $x=b$ is true, then
$$xnotin {a,b},$$
so ${a,b}$ contains both $a$ and $b$, but nothing different from them both. Also, if both $x=a$ and $x=b$ are true, which implies $a=b$, then $xin {a,b}$, too (the set contains only one element).



Your second affirmation is true, since two sets are equal if they have the same elements, or more precisely
$$A=B iff (xin A iff xin B).$$



Finally, ${a,b}$ does not necessarily contain $emptyset$; just $a$ and $b$. It only turns out to be the case that
$$emptyset in {a,b}$$
if $a=emptyset$ or $b=emptyset$ (or both, of course).



You should not confuse the statements
$$xin A$$
and
$$xsubset A.$$
While in common speech both could be read as '$x$ is contained in $A$', I'm only using this expression to mean the former, not the later. The former is also read as '$x$ is one of the elements of the set $A$'. The later, instead, means that every element of the set $x$ is also an element of the set $A$, but not necessarily that $x$ is itself an element of the set $A$ (this could be the case, though).



Since it is never the case that some set is an element of $emptyset$, it is true for any set $A$ that
$$emptyset subset A,$$
but not always
$$emptyset in A.$$






share|cite|improve this answer











$endgroup$





















    3












    $begingroup$


    1. You can verify $a$ satisfies the condition $x=alor x=b$, so $ain A$. Similarly, $bin A$.

    2. Yes.

    3. It has $a$ and $b$ as elements and nothing else, and in particular $emptysetnotin{a,,b}$ (unless $a=emptysetlor b=emptyset$).






    share|cite|improve this answer











    $endgroup$













    • $begingroup$
      @drhab Thanks; fixed.
      $endgroup$
      – J.G.
      Dec 28 '18 at 15:23











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    2 Answers
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    active

    oldest

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    2 Answers
    2






    active

    oldest

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    active

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    active

    oldest

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    3












    $begingroup$

    I think you mean that $A$ is a set containing $a$ and $b$ (but perhaps contains other sets, so there could be other sets containing both $a$ and $b$—like ${a,b}$ itself). There is not such thing as the set containing $a$ and $b$.



    What there is, though, is the set containing exactly $a$ and $b$ and nothing else; what is defined as ${a,b}$. Don't be confused by the or in the definition: it is not a set containing $a$ or $b$, but the set whose elements $x$ are in $A$ and also satisfy the condition $x=a vee x=b$. If $x=a$, then satisfies the condition, and so
    $$x=ain {a,b};$$
    if $x=b$, then satisfies the condition, and so
    $$x=bin {a,b};$$
    if none of $x=a$ or $x=b$ is true, then
    $$xnotin {a,b},$$
    so ${a,b}$ contains both $a$ and $b$, but nothing different from them both. Also, if both $x=a$ and $x=b$ are true, which implies $a=b$, then $xin {a,b}$, too (the set contains only one element).



    Your second affirmation is true, since two sets are equal if they have the same elements, or more precisely
    $$A=B iff (xin A iff xin B).$$



    Finally, ${a,b}$ does not necessarily contain $emptyset$; just $a$ and $b$. It only turns out to be the case that
    $$emptyset in {a,b}$$
    if $a=emptyset$ or $b=emptyset$ (or both, of course).



    You should not confuse the statements
    $$xin A$$
    and
    $$xsubset A.$$
    While in common speech both could be read as '$x$ is contained in $A$', I'm only using this expression to mean the former, not the later. The former is also read as '$x$ is one of the elements of the set $A$'. The later, instead, means that every element of the set $x$ is also an element of the set $A$, but not necessarily that $x$ is itself an element of the set $A$ (this could be the case, though).



    Since it is never the case that some set is an element of $emptyset$, it is true for any set $A$ that
    $$emptyset subset A,$$
    but not always
    $$emptyset in A.$$






    share|cite|improve this answer











    $endgroup$


















      3












      $begingroup$

      I think you mean that $A$ is a set containing $a$ and $b$ (but perhaps contains other sets, so there could be other sets containing both $a$ and $b$—like ${a,b}$ itself). There is not such thing as the set containing $a$ and $b$.



      What there is, though, is the set containing exactly $a$ and $b$ and nothing else; what is defined as ${a,b}$. Don't be confused by the or in the definition: it is not a set containing $a$ or $b$, but the set whose elements $x$ are in $A$ and also satisfy the condition $x=a vee x=b$. If $x=a$, then satisfies the condition, and so
      $$x=ain {a,b};$$
      if $x=b$, then satisfies the condition, and so
      $$x=bin {a,b};$$
      if none of $x=a$ or $x=b$ is true, then
      $$xnotin {a,b},$$
      so ${a,b}$ contains both $a$ and $b$, but nothing different from them both. Also, if both $x=a$ and $x=b$ are true, which implies $a=b$, then $xin {a,b}$, too (the set contains only one element).



      Your second affirmation is true, since two sets are equal if they have the same elements, or more precisely
      $$A=B iff (xin A iff xin B).$$



      Finally, ${a,b}$ does not necessarily contain $emptyset$; just $a$ and $b$. It only turns out to be the case that
      $$emptyset in {a,b}$$
      if $a=emptyset$ or $b=emptyset$ (or both, of course).



      You should not confuse the statements
      $$xin A$$
      and
      $$xsubset A.$$
      While in common speech both could be read as '$x$ is contained in $A$', I'm only using this expression to mean the former, not the later. The former is also read as '$x$ is one of the elements of the set $A$'. The later, instead, means that every element of the set $x$ is also an element of the set $A$, but not necessarily that $x$ is itself an element of the set $A$ (this could be the case, though).



      Since it is never the case that some set is an element of $emptyset$, it is true for any set $A$ that
      $$emptyset subset A,$$
      but not always
      $$emptyset in A.$$






      share|cite|improve this answer











      $endgroup$
















        3












        3








        3





        $begingroup$

        I think you mean that $A$ is a set containing $a$ and $b$ (but perhaps contains other sets, so there could be other sets containing both $a$ and $b$—like ${a,b}$ itself). There is not such thing as the set containing $a$ and $b$.



        What there is, though, is the set containing exactly $a$ and $b$ and nothing else; what is defined as ${a,b}$. Don't be confused by the or in the definition: it is not a set containing $a$ or $b$, but the set whose elements $x$ are in $A$ and also satisfy the condition $x=a vee x=b$. If $x=a$, then satisfies the condition, and so
        $$x=ain {a,b};$$
        if $x=b$, then satisfies the condition, and so
        $$x=bin {a,b};$$
        if none of $x=a$ or $x=b$ is true, then
        $$xnotin {a,b},$$
        so ${a,b}$ contains both $a$ and $b$, but nothing different from them both. Also, if both $x=a$ and $x=b$ are true, which implies $a=b$, then $xin {a,b}$, too (the set contains only one element).



        Your second affirmation is true, since two sets are equal if they have the same elements, or more precisely
        $$A=B iff (xin A iff xin B).$$



        Finally, ${a,b}$ does not necessarily contain $emptyset$; just $a$ and $b$. It only turns out to be the case that
        $$emptyset in {a,b}$$
        if $a=emptyset$ or $b=emptyset$ (or both, of course).



        You should not confuse the statements
        $$xin A$$
        and
        $$xsubset A.$$
        While in common speech both could be read as '$x$ is contained in $A$', I'm only using this expression to mean the former, not the later. The former is also read as '$x$ is one of the elements of the set $A$'. The later, instead, means that every element of the set $x$ is also an element of the set $A$, but not necessarily that $x$ is itself an element of the set $A$ (this could be the case, though).



        Since it is never the case that some set is an element of $emptyset$, it is true for any set $A$ that
        $$emptyset subset A,$$
        but not always
        $$emptyset in A.$$






        share|cite|improve this answer











        $endgroup$



        I think you mean that $A$ is a set containing $a$ and $b$ (but perhaps contains other sets, so there could be other sets containing both $a$ and $b$—like ${a,b}$ itself). There is not such thing as the set containing $a$ and $b$.



        What there is, though, is the set containing exactly $a$ and $b$ and nothing else; what is defined as ${a,b}$. Don't be confused by the or in the definition: it is not a set containing $a$ or $b$, but the set whose elements $x$ are in $A$ and also satisfy the condition $x=a vee x=b$. If $x=a$, then satisfies the condition, and so
        $$x=ain {a,b};$$
        if $x=b$, then satisfies the condition, and so
        $$x=bin {a,b};$$
        if none of $x=a$ or $x=b$ is true, then
        $$xnotin {a,b},$$
        so ${a,b}$ contains both $a$ and $b$, but nothing different from them both. Also, if both $x=a$ and $x=b$ are true, which implies $a=b$, then $xin {a,b}$, too (the set contains only one element).



        Your second affirmation is true, since two sets are equal if they have the same elements, or more precisely
        $$A=B iff (xin A iff xin B).$$



        Finally, ${a,b}$ does not necessarily contain $emptyset$; just $a$ and $b$. It only turns out to be the case that
        $$emptyset in {a,b}$$
        if $a=emptyset$ or $b=emptyset$ (or both, of course).



        You should not confuse the statements
        $$xin A$$
        and
        $$xsubset A.$$
        While in common speech both could be read as '$x$ is contained in $A$', I'm only using this expression to mean the former, not the later. The former is also read as '$x$ is one of the elements of the set $A$'. The later, instead, means that every element of the set $x$ is also an element of the set $A$, but not necessarily that $x$ is itself an element of the set $A$ (this could be the case, though).



        Since it is never the case that some set is an element of $emptyset$, it is true for any set $A$ that
        $$emptyset subset A,$$
        but not always
        $$emptyset in A.$$







        share|cite|improve this answer














        share|cite|improve this answer



        share|cite|improve this answer








        edited Dec 28 '18 at 8:32

























        answered Dec 28 '18 at 7:58









        Alejandro Nasif SalumAlejandro Nasif Salum

        4,765118




        4,765118























            3












            $begingroup$


            1. You can verify $a$ satisfies the condition $x=alor x=b$, so $ain A$. Similarly, $bin A$.

            2. Yes.

            3. It has $a$ and $b$ as elements and nothing else, and in particular $emptysetnotin{a,,b}$ (unless $a=emptysetlor b=emptyset$).






            share|cite|improve this answer











            $endgroup$













            • $begingroup$
              @drhab Thanks; fixed.
              $endgroup$
              – J.G.
              Dec 28 '18 at 15:23
















            3












            $begingroup$


            1. You can verify $a$ satisfies the condition $x=alor x=b$, so $ain A$. Similarly, $bin A$.

            2. Yes.

            3. It has $a$ and $b$ as elements and nothing else, and in particular $emptysetnotin{a,,b}$ (unless $a=emptysetlor b=emptyset$).






            share|cite|improve this answer











            $endgroup$













            • $begingroup$
              @drhab Thanks; fixed.
              $endgroup$
              – J.G.
              Dec 28 '18 at 15:23














            3












            3








            3





            $begingroup$


            1. You can verify $a$ satisfies the condition $x=alor x=b$, so $ain A$. Similarly, $bin A$.

            2. Yes.

            3. It has $a$ and $b$ as elements and nothing else, and in particular $emptysetnotin{a,,b}$ (unless $a=emptysetlor b=emptyset$).






            share|cite|improve this answer











            $endgroup$




            1. You can verify $a$ satisfies the condition $x=alor x=b$, so $ain A$. Similarly, $bin A$.

            2. Yes.

            3. It has $a$ and $b$ as elements and nothing else, and in particular $emptysetnotin{a,,b}$ (unless $a=emptysetlor b=emptyset$).







            share|cite|improve this answer














            share|cite|improve this answer



            share|cite|improve this answer








            edited Dec 28 '18 at 15:23

























            answered Dec 28 '18 at 7:47









            J.G.J.G.

            30.5k23149




            30.5k23149












            • $begingroup$
              @drhab Thanks; fixed.
              $endgroup$
              – J.G.
              Dec 28 '18 at 15:23


















            • $begingroup$
              @drhab Thanks; fixed.
              $endgroup$
              – J.G.
              Dec 28 '18 at 15:23
















            $begingroup$
            @drhab Thanks; fixed.
            $endgroup$
            – J.G.
            Dec 28 '18 at 15:23




            $begingroup$
            @drhab Thanks; fixed.
            $endgroup$
            – J.G.
            Dec 28 '18 at 15:23


















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