Question about associated points in Vakil's notes












7












$begingroup$


I have a question about Exercise 5.5.E in Vakil's algebraic geometry notes. Here's the statement:





Show that the locus on $text{Spec } A$ of points $[p]$ where $mathcal{O}_{text{Spec } A;[p]} = A_p$ is nonreduced is the closure of those associated points of $text{Spec } A$ whose stalks are non reduced.



The statement of the problem further indicates that we are supposed to do this using the following two properties of associated points:



A. The associated points of $text{Spec }A$ are precisely the generic points of irreducible components of the support of some element of $A$.



B. $text{Spec }A$ has finitely many associated points.





My problem is that I seem to have solved it using A but not B!



Question: Where did I go wrong?



Here's my purported solution. I will use A repeatedly (without comment), but I will never use B:





Assume first that $[p]$ is an associated point of $text{Spec } A$ where $A_p$ is non-reduced and $[q]$ is a point in the closure of $[p]$. We then have $p subset q$, and thus $A_p$ is a localization of $A_q$. If $A_q$ were reduced, then this would imply that $A_p$ is reduced; we therefore deduce that $A_q$ is non-reduced.



Now assume that $[r]$ is a point of $text{Spec } A$ where $A_r$ is non-reduced. Our goal is to prove that $[r]$ is in the closure of some associated point $[s]$ where $A_s$ is non-reduced. Since $A_r$ is non-reduced, there exists some $f in A$ and $n geq 2$ and $x in A setminus r$ such that $x f^n = 0$, but where $y f neq 0$ for all $y in A setminus r$. Set $g = x f$. We then have $g^n = 0$, but $y g neq 0$ for all $y in A setminus r$. This implies that $[r] in text{Supp } g$. Moreover, since $g$ itself is nilpotent it witnesses the fact that $A_{r'}$ is non-reduced for all points $[r']$ in $text{Supp } g$. In particular, if $[s]$ is the generic point of an irreducible component of $text{Supp } g$ containing $[r]$, then $[s]$ has the desired property.










share|cite|improve this question









$endgroup$








  • 1




    $begingroup$
    I guess one issue is basic topology: if you have an infinite family of sets then it may not be true that closure commutes with union.
    $endgroup$
    – Hoot
    Sep 7 '16 at 6:21


















7












$begingroup$


I have a question about Exercise 5.5.E in Vakil's algebraic geometry notes. Here's the statement:





Show that the locus on $text{Spec } A$ of points $[p]$ where $mathcal{O}_{text{Spec } A;[p]} = A_p$ is nonreduced is the closure of those associated points of $text{Spec } A$ whose stalks are non reduced.



The statement of the problem further indicates that we are supposed to do this using the following two properties of associated points:



A. The associated points of $text{Spec }A$ are precisely the generic points of irreducible components of the support of some element of $A$.



B. $text{Spec }A$ has finitely many associated points.





My problem is that I seem to have solved it using A but not B!



Question: Where did I go wrong?



Here's my purported solution. I will use A repeatedly (without comment), but I will never use B:





Assume first that $[p]$ is an associated point of $text{Spec } A$ where $A_p$ is non-reduced and $[q]$ is a point in the closure of $[p]$. We then have $p subset q$, and thus $A_p$ is a localization of $A_q$. If $A_q$ were reduced, then this would imply that $A_p$ is reduced; we therefore deduce that $A_q$ is non-reduced.



Now assume that $[r]$ is a point of $text{Spec } A$ where $A_r$ is non-reduced. Our goal is to prove that $[r]$ is in the closure of some associated point $[s]$ where $A_s$ is non-reduced. Since $A_r$ is non-reduced, there exists some $f in A$ and $n geq 2$ and $x in A setminus r$ such that $x f^n = 0$, but where $y f neq 0$ for all $y in A setminus r$. Set $g = x f$. We then have $g^n = 0$, but $y g neq 0$ for all $y in A setminus r$. This implies that $[r] in text{Supp } g$. Moreover, since $g$ itself is nilpotent it witnesses the fact that $A_{r'}$ is non-reduced for all points $[r']$ in $text{Supp } g$. In particular, if $[s]$ is the generic point of an irreducible component of $text{Supp } g$ containing $[r]$, then $[s]$ has the desired property.










share|cite|improve this question









$endgroup$








  • 1




    $begingroup$
    I guess one issue is basic topology: if you have an infinite family of sets then it may not be true that closure commutes with union.
    $endgroup$
    – Hoot
    Sep 7 '16 at 6:21
















7












7








7


4



$begingroup$


I have a question about Exercise 5.5.E in Vakil's algebraic geometry notes. Here's the statement:





Show that the locus on $text{Spec } A$ of points $[p]$ where $mathcal{O}_{text{Spec } A;[p]} = A_p$ is nonreduced is the closure of those associated points of $text{Spec } A$ whose stalks are non reduced.



The statement of the problem further indicates that we are supposed to do this using the following two properties of associated points:



A. The associated points of $text{Spec }A$ are precisely the generic points of irreducible components of the support of some element of $A$.



B. $text{Spec }A$ has finitely many associated points.





My problem is that I seem to have solved it using A but not B!



Question: Where did I go wrong?



Here's my purported solution. I will use A repeatedly (without comment), but I will never use B:





Assume first that $[p]$ is an associated point of $text{Spec } A$ where $A_p$ is non-reduced and $[q]$ is a point in the closure of $[p]$. We then have $p subset q$, and thus $A_p$ is a localization of $A_q$. If $A_q$ were reduced, then this would imply that $A_p$ is reduced; we therefore deduce that $A_q$ is non-reduced.



Now assume that $[r]$ is a point of $text{Spec } A$ where $A_r$ is non-reduced. Our goal is to prove that $[r]$ is in the closure of some associated point $[s]$ where $A_s$ is non-reduced. Since $A_r$ is non-reduced, there exists some $f in A$ and $n geq 2$ and $x in A setminus r$ such that $x f^n = 0$, but where $y f neq 0$ for all $y in A setminus r$. Set $g = x f$. We then have $g^n = 0$, but $y g neq 0$ for all $y in A setminus r$. This implies that $[r] in text{Supp } g$. Moreover, since $g$ itself is nilpotent it witnesses the fact that $A_{r'}$ is non-reduced for all points $[r']$ in $text{Supp } g$. In particular, if $[s]$ is the generic point of an irreducible component of $text{Supp } g$ containing $[r]$, then $[s]$ has the desired property.










share|cite|improve this question









$endgroup$




I have a question about Exercise 5.5.E in Vakil's algebraic geometry notes. Here's the statement:





Show that the locus on $text{Spec } A$ of points $[p]$ where $mathcal{O}_{text{Spec } A;[p]} = A_p$ is nonreduced is the closure of those associated points of $text{Spec } A$ whose stalks are non reduced.



The statement of the problem further indicates that we are supposed to do this using the following two properties of associated points:



A. The associated points of $text{Spec }A$ are precisely the generic points of irreducible components of the support of some element of $A$.



B. $text{Spec }A$ has finitely many associated points.





My problem is that I seem to have solved it using A but not B!



Question: Where did I go wrong?



Here's my purported solution. I will use A repeatedly (without comment), but I will never use B:





Assume first that $[p]$ is an associated point of $text{Spec } A$ where $A_p$ is non-reduced and $[q]$ is a point in the closure of $[p]$. We then have $p subset q$, and thus $A_p$ is a localization of $A_q$. If $A_q$ were reduced, then this would imply that $A_p$ is reduced; we therefore deduce that $A_q$ is non-reduced.



Now assume that $[r]$ is a point of $text{Spec } A$ where $A_r$ is non-reduced. Our goal is to prove that $[r]$ is in the closure of some associated point $[s]$ where $A_s$ is non-reduced. Since $A_r$ is non-reduced, there exists some $f in A$ and $n geq 2$ and $x in A setminus r$ such that $x f^n = 0$, but where $y f neq 0$ for all $y in A setminus r$. Set $g = x f$. We then have $g^n = 0$, but $y g neq 0$ for all $y in A setminus r$. This implies that $[r] in text{Supp } g$. Moreover, since $g$ itself is nilpotent it witnesses the fact that $A_{r'}$ is non-reduced for all points $[r']$ in $text{Supp } g$. In particular, if $[s]$ is the generic point of an irreducible component of $text{Supp } g$ containing $[r]$, then $[s]$ has the desired property.







algebraic-geometry






share|cite|improve this question













share|cite|improve this question











share|cite|improve this question




share|cite|improve this question










asked Sep 7 '16 at 3:04









SarahSarah

361




361








  • 1




    $begingroup$
    I guess one issue is basic topology: if you have an infinite family of sets then it may not be true that closure commutes with union.
    $endgroup$
    – Hoot
    Sep 7 '16 at 6:21
















  • 1




    $begingroup$
    I guess one issue is basic topology: if you have an infinite family of sets then it may not be true that closure commutes with union.
    $endgroup$
    – Hoot
    Sep 7 '16 at 6:21










1




1




$begingroup$
I guess one issue is basic topology: if you have an infinite family of sets then it may not be true that closure commutes with union.
$endgroup$
– Hoot
Sep 7 '16 at 6:21






$begingroup$
I guess one issue is basic topology: if you have an infinite family of sets then it may not be true that closure commutes with union.
$endgroup$
– Hoot
Sep 7 '16 at 6:21












1 Answer
1






active

oldest

votes


















0












$begingroup$

To make an answer out of the above comment, the first paragraph of your solution shows that the union of $overline{mathfrak{p}}$ over $mathfrak{p}in text{Ass } text{Spec }A$ such that $A_mathfrak{p}$ is nonreduced is a subset of the locus on $text{Spec } A$ of points $[p]$ where $A_{mathfrak{p}}$ is nonreduced. The second paragraph shows the converse, but the implicit assumption in both directions is that the closure of the set of associated points of Spec A whose stalks are non reduced is the same as the union of the closures of those associated points. $bf{(B)}$ allows you to make this assumption, as the closure of a finite union of sets is the union of the closures of each.






share|cite|improve this answer









$endgroup$













  • $begingroup$
    Welcome the Mathematics Stack Exchange! A quick tour of the site (math.stackexchange.com/tour) will help you get the most of your time here.
    $endgroup$
    – dantopa
    Dec 27 '18 at 19:16











Your Answer





StackExchange.ifUsing("editor", function () {
return StackExchange.using("mathjaxEditing", function () {
StackExchange.MarkdownEditor.creationCallbacks.add(function (editor, postfix) {
StackExchange.mathjaxEditing.prepareWmdForMathJax(editor, postfix, [["$", "$"], ["\\(","\\)"]]);
});
});
}, "mathjax-editing");

StackExchange.ready(function() {
var channelOptions = {
tags: "".split(" "),
id: "69"
};
initTagRenderer("".split(" "), "".split(" "), channelOptions);

StackExchange.using("externalEditor", function() {
// Have to fire editor after snippets, if snippets enabled
if (StackExchange.settings.snippets.snippetsEnabled) {
StackExchange.using("snippets", function() {
createEditor();
});
}
else {
createEditor();
}
});

function createEditor() {
StackExchange.prepareEditor({
heartbeatType: 'answer',
autoActivateHeartbeat: false,
convertImagesToLinks: true,
noModals: true,
showLowRepImageUploadWarning: true,
reputationToPostImages: 10,
bindNavPrevention: true,
postfix: "",
imageUploader: {
brandingHtml: "Powered by u003ca class="icon-imgur-white" href="https://imgur.com/"u003eu003c/au003e",
contentPolicyHtml: "User contributions licensed under u003ca href="https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/"u003ecc by-sa 3.0 with attribution requiredu003c/au003e u003ca href="https://stackoverflow.com/legal/content-policy"u003e(content policy)u003c/au003e",
allowUrls: true
},
noCode: true, onDemand: true,
discardSelector: ".discard-answer"
,immediatelyShowMarkdownHelp:true
});


}
});














draft saved

draft discarded


















StackExchange.ready(
function () {
StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fmath.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f1917422%2fquestion-about-associated-points-in-vakils-notes%23new-answer', 'question_page');
}
);

Post as a guest















Required, but never shown

























1 Answer
1






active

oldest

votes








1 Answer
1






active

oldest

votes









active

oldest

votes






active

oldest

votes









0












$begingroup$

To make an answer out of the above comment, the first paragraph of your solution shows that the union of $overline{mathfrak{p}}$ over $mathfrak{p}in text{Ass } text{Spec }A$ such that $A_mathfrak{p}$ is nonreduced is a subset of the locus on $text{Spec } A$ of points $[p]$ where $A_{mathfrak{p}}$ is nonreduced. The second paragraph shows the converse, but the implicit assumption in both directions is that the closure of the set of associated points of Spec A whose stalks are non reduced is the same as the union of the closures of those associated points. $bf{(B)}$ allows you to make this assumption, as the closure of a finite union of sets is the union of the closures of each.






share|cite|improve this answer









$endgroup$













  • $begingroup$
    Welcome the Mathematics Stack Exchange! A quick tour of the site (math.stackexchange.com/tour) will help you get the most of your time here.
    $endgroup$
    – dantopa
    Dec 27 '18 at 19:16
















0












$begingroup$

To make an answer out of the above comment, the first paragraph of your solution shows that the union of $overline{mathfrak{p}}$ over $mathfrak{p}in text{Ass } text{Spec }A$ such that $A_mathfrak{p}$ is nonreduced is a subset of the locus on $text{Spec } A$ of points $[p]$ where $A_{mathfrak{p}}$ is nonreduced. The second paragraph shows the converse, but the implicit assumption in both directions is that the closure of the set of associated points of Spec A whose stalks are non reduced is the same as the union of the closures of those associated points. $bf{(B)}$ allows you to make this assumption, as the closure of a finite union of sets is the union of the closures of each.






share|cite|improve this answer









$endgroup$













  • $begingroup$
    Welcome the Mathematics Stack Exchange! A quick tour of the site (math.stackexchange.com/tour) will help you get the most of your time here.
    $endgroup$
    – dantopa
    Dec 27 '18 at 19:16














0












0








0





$begingroup$

To make an answer out of the above comment, the first paragraph of your solution shows that the union of $overline{mathfrak{p}}$ over $mathfrak{p}in text{Ass } text{Spec }A$ such that $A_mathfrak{p}$ is nonreduced is a subset of the locus on $text{Spec } A$ of points $[p]$ where $A_{mathfrak{p}}$ is nonreduced. The second paragraph shows the converse, but the implicit assumption in both directions is that the closure of the set of associated points of Spec A whose stalks are non reduced is the same as the union of the closures of those associated points. $bf{(B)}$ allows you to make this assumption, as the closure of a finite union of sets is the union of the closures of each.






share|cite|improve this answer









$endgroup$



To make an answer out of the above comment, the first paragraph of your solution shows that the union of $overline{mathfrak{p}}$ over $mathfrak{p}in text{Ass } text{Spec }A$ such that $A_mathfrak{p}$ is nonreduced is a subset of the locus on $text{Spec } A$ of points $[p]$ where $A_{mathfrak{p}}$ is nonreduced. The second paragraph shows the converse, but the implicit assumption in both directions is that the closure of the set of associated points of Spec A whose stalks are non reduced is the same as the union of the closures of those associated points. $bf{(B)}$ allows you to make this assumption, as the closure of a finite union of sets is the union of the closures of each.







share|cite|improve this answer












share|cite|improve this answer



share|cite|improve this answer










answered Dec 27 '18 at 19:00









user625405user625405

11




11












  • $begingroup$
    Welcome the Mathematics Stack Exchange! A quick tour of the site (math.stackexchange.com/tour) will help you get the most of your time here.
    $endgroup$
    – dantopa
    Dec 27 '18 at 19:16


















  • $begingroup$
    Welcome the Mathematics Stack Exchange! A quick tour of the site (math.stackexchange.com/tour) will help you get the most of your time here.
    $endgroup$
    – dantopa
    Dec 27 '18 at 19:16
















$begingroup$
Welcome the Mathematics Stack Exchange! A quick tour of the site (math.stackexchange.com/tour) will help you get the most of your time here.
$endgroup$
– dantopa
Dec 27 '18 at 19:16




$begingroup$
Welcome the Mathematics Stack Exchange! A quick tour of the site (math.stackexchange.com/tour) will help you get the most of your time here.
$endgroup$
– dantopa
Dec 27 '18 at 19:16


















draft saved

draft discarded




















































Thanks for contributing an answer to Mathematics Stack Exchange!


  • Please be sure to answer the question. Provide details and share your research!

But avoid



  • Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers.

  • Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience.


Use MathJax to format equations. MathJax reference.


To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers.




draft saved


draft discarded














StackExchange.ready(
function () {
StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fmath.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f1917422%2fquestion-about-associated-points-in-vakils-notes%23new-answer', 'question_page');
}
);

Post as a guest















Required, but never shown





















































Required, but never shown














Required, but never shown












Required, but never shown







Required, but never shown

































Required, but never shown














Required, but never shown












Required, but never shown







Required, but never shown







Popular posts from this blog

Wiesbaden

Marschland

Dieringhausen