Check whether $G$ is group or not












5












$begingroup$



Let $G={0,1,2}$ define $*$ on $G$ such that $a*b=|a-b|$. Check if $G$ is a group




Edit : As @egreg correctly pointed out if you draw the Cayley table then one can directly see it is not a group, I was making a mistake in drawing up cayley table.



My solution :
I can prove that $G$ is closed, has an identity ($0$), has an inverse (each element is inverse of itself).



What I am not sure is whether the group is associative under this binary operation, at the face of it $|a-|b-c||neq||a-b|-c||$ but if we check all possibilities then both do come out to be equal if $a,b,c in G$.



Any hint/help will be appreciated










share|cite|improve this question











$endgroup$








  • 2




    $begingroup$
    @Peter: I suspect at the level of this OP (reputation=1), that the statement that a group of size $3$ must be isomorphic to $mathbb{Z}_3$ will be of little help.
    $endgroup$
    – David G. Stork
    Jun 13 '18 at 12:45






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    Associativity is always the hardest property to verify but the good news is you don't have very many to check. You need to verify that $a*(b*c)=(a*b)*c$ so each letter has 3 choices $0,1,2$ so you'd have 27 things to check there if you manually check each one :)
    $endgroup$
    – N8tron
    Jun 13 '18 at 12:47






  • 2




    $begingroup$
    You only need to find one combination of values for $a,b$ and $c$ for which associativity fails and you can infer that they cannot all be the same number and $0$ doesn't really change the expression so try combinations of $1$ and $2$.
    $endgroup$
    – CyclotomicField
    Jun 13 '18 at 12:48






  • 2




    $begingroup$
    You may also use the fact that in a group each row/column of the Cayley table must be a permutation of the elements of $G$.
    $endgroup$
    – Andreas Caranti
    Jun 13 '18 at 12:48






  • 2




    $begingroup$
    OK, an easier way to look if we CAN have a group : Does every element appear in every row and in every column ? If not, we cannot have a group.
    $endgroup$
    – Peter
    Jun 13 '18 at 12:49
















5












$begingroup$



Let $G={0,1,2}$ define $*$ on $G$ such that $a*b=|a-b|$. Check if $G$ is a group




Edit : As @egreg correctly pointed out if you draw the Cayley table then one can directly see it is not a group, I was making a mistake in drawing up cayley table.



My solution :
I can prove that $G$ is closed, has an identity ($0$), has an inverse (each element is inverse of itself).



What I am not sure is whether the group is associative under this binary operation, at the face of it $|a-|b-c||neq||a-b|-c||$ but if we check all possibilities then both do come out to be equal if $a,b,c in G$.



Any hint/help will be appreciated










share|cite|improve this question











$endgroup$








  • 2




    $begingroup$
    @Peter: I suspect at the level of this OP (reputation=1), that the statement that a group of size $3$ must be isomorphic to $mathbb{Z}_3$ will be of little help.
    $endgroup$
    – David G. Stork
    Jun 13 '18 at 12:45






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    Associativity is always the hardest property to verify but the good news is you don't have very many to check. You need to verify that $a*(b*c)=(a*b)*c$ so each letter has 3 choices $0,1,2$ so you'd have 27 things to check there if you manually check each one :)
    $endgroup$
    – N8tron
    Jun 13 '18 at 12:47






  • 2




    $begingroup$
    You only need to find one combination of values for $a,b$ and $c$ for which associativity fails and you can infer that they cannot all be the same number and $0$ doesn't really change the expression so try combinations of $1$ and $2$.
    $endgroup$
    – CyclotomicField
    Jun 13 '18 at 12:48






  • 2




    $begingroup$
    You may also use the fact that in a group each row/column of the Cayley table must be a permutation of the elements of $G$.
    $endgroup$
    – Andreas Caranti
    Jun 13 '18 at 12:48






  • 2




    $begingroup$
    OK, an easier way to look if we CAN have a group : Does every element appear in every row and in every column ? If not, we cannot have a group.
    $endgroup$
    – Peter
    Jun 13 '18 at 12:49














5












5








5





$begingroup$



Let $G={0,1,2}$ define $*$ on $G$ such that $a*b=|a-b|$. Check if $G$ is a group




Edit : As @egreg correctly pointed out if you draw the Cayley table then one can directly see it is not a group, I was making a mistake in drawing up cayley table.



My solution :
I can prove that $G$ is closed, has an identity ($0$), has an inverse (each element is inverse of itself).



What I am not sure is whether the group is associative under this binary operation, at the face of it $|a-|b-c||neq||a-b|-c||$ but if we check all possibilities then both do come out to be equal if $a,b,c in G$.



Any hint/help will be appreciated










share|cite|improve this question











$endgroup$





Let $G={0,1,2}$ define $*$ on $G$ such that $a*b=|a-b|$. Check if $G$ is a group




Edit : As @egreg correctly pointed out if you draw the Cayley table then one can directly see it is not a group, I was making a mistake in drawing up cayley table.



My solution :
I can prove that $G$ is closed, has an identity ($0$), has an inverse (each element is inverse of itself).



What I am not sure is whether the group is associative under this binary operation, at the face of it $|a-|b-c||neq||a-b|-c||$ but if we check all possibilities then both do come out to be equal if $a,b,c in G$.



Any hint/help will be appreciated







abstract-algebra group-theory binary-operations






share|cite|improve this question















share|cite|improve this question













share|cite|improve this question




share|cite|improve this question








edited Jan 7 at 16:27









José Carlos Santos

155k22124227




155k22124227










asked Jun 13 '18 at 12:41









kira0705kira0705

995




995








  • 2




    $begingroup$
    @Peter: I suspect at the level of this OP (reputation=1), that the statement that a group of size $3$ must be isomorphic to $mathbb{Z}_3$ will be of little help.
    $endgroup$
    – David G. Stork
    Jun 13 '18 at 12:45






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    Associativity is always the hardest property to verify but the good news is you don't have very many to check. You need to verify that $a*(b*c)=(a*b)*c$ so each letter has 3 choices $0,1,2$ so you'd have 27 things to check there if you manually check each one :)
    $endgroup$
    – N8tron
    Jun 13 '18 at 12:47






  • 2




    $begingroup$
    You only need to find one combination of values for $a,b$ and $c$ for which associativity fails and you can infer that they cannot all be the same number and $0$ doesn't really change the expression so try combinations of $1$ and $2$.
    $endgroup$
    – CyclotomicField
    Jun 13 '18 at 12:48






  • 2




    $begingroup$
    You may also use the fact that in a group each row/column of the Cayley table must be a permutation of the elements of $G$.
    $endgroup$
    – Andreas Caranti
    Jun 13 '18 at 12:48






  • 2




    $begingroup$
    OK, an easier way to look if we CAN have a group : Does every element appear in every row and in every column ? If not, we cannot have a group.
    $endgroup$
    – Peter
    Jun 13 '18 at 12:49














  • 2




    $begingroup$
    @Peter: I suspect at the level of this OP (reputation=1), that the statement that a group of size $3$ must be isomorphic to $mathbb{Z}_3$ will be of little help.
    $endgroup$
    – David G. Stork
    Jun 13 '18 at 12:45






  • 1




    $begingroup$
    Associativity is always the hardest property to verify but the good news is you don't have very many to check. You need to verify that $a*(b*c)=(a*b)*c$ so each letter has 3 choices $0,1,2$ so you'd have 27 things to check there if you manually check each one :)
    $endgroup$
    – N8tron
    Jun 13 '18 at 12:47






  • 2




    $begingroup$
    You only need to find one combination of values for $a,b$ and $c$ for which associativity fails and you can infer that they cannot all be the same number and $0$ doesn't really change the expression so try combinations of $1$ and $2$.
    $endgroup$
    – CyclotomicField
    Jun 13 '18 at 12:48






  • 2




    $begingroup$
    You may also use the fact that in a group each row/column of the Cayley table must be a permutation of the elements of $G$.
    $endgroup$
    – Andreas Caranti
    Jun 13 '18 at 12:48






  • 2




    $begingroup$
    OK, an easier way to look if we CAN have a group : Does every element appear in every row and in every column ? If not, we cannot have a group.
    $endgroup$
    – Peter
    Jun 13 '18 at 12:49








2




2




$begingroup$
@Peter: I suspect at the level of this OP (reputation=1), that the statement that a group of size $3$ must be isomorphic to $mathbb{Z}_3$ will be of little help.
$endgroup$
– David G. Stork
Jun 13 '18 at 12:45




$begingroup$
@Peter: I suspect at the level of this OP (reputation=1), that the statement that a group of size $3$ must be isomorphic to $mathbb{Z}_3$ will be of little help.
$endgroup$
– David G. Stork
Jun 13 '18 at 12:45




1




1




$begingroup$
Associativity is always the hardest property to verify but the good news is you don't have very many to check. You need to verify that $a*(b*c)=(a*b)*c$ so each letter has 3 choices $0,1,2$ so you'd have 27 things to check there if you manually check each one :)
$endgroup$
– N8tron
Jun 13 '18 at 12:47




$begingroup$
Associativity is always the hardest property to verify but the good news is you don't have very many to check. You need to verify that $a*(b*c)=(a*b)*c$ so each letter has 3 choices $0,1,2$ so you'd have 27 things to check there if you manually check each one :)
$endgroup$
– N8tron
Jun 13 '18 at 12:47




2




2




$begingroup$
You only need to find one combination of values for $a,b$ and $c$ for which associativity fails and you can infer that they cannot all be the same number and $0$ doesn't really change the expression so try combinations of $1$ and $2$.
$endgroup$
– CyclotomicField
Jun 13 '18 at 12:48




$begingroup$
You only need to find one combination of values for $a,b$ and $c$ for which associativity fails and you can infer that they cannot all be the same number and $0$ doesn't really change the expression so try combinations of $1$ and $2$.
$endgroup$
– CyclotomicField
Jun 13 '18 at 12:48




2




2




$begingroup$
You may also use the fact that in a group each row/column of the Cayley table must be a permutation of the elements of $G$.
$endgroup$
– Andreas Caranti
Jun 13 '18 at 12:48




$begingroup$
You may also use the fact that in a group each row/column of the Cayley table must be a permutation of the elements of $G$.
$endgroup$
– Andreas Caranti
Jun 13 '18 at 12:48




2




2




$begingroup$
OK, an easier way to look if we CAN have a group : Does every element appear in every row and in every column ? If not, we cannot have a group.
$endgroup$
– Peter
Jun 13 '18 at 12:49




$begingroup$
OK, an easier way to look if we CAN have a group : Does every element appear in every row and in every column ? If not, we cannot have a group.
$endgroup$
– Peter
Jun 13 '18 at 12:49










2 Answers
2






active

oldest

votes


















4












$begingroup$

The Cayley table (that also shows closure, identity and inverses) is
begin{array}{c|ccc}
* & 0 & 1 & 2 \
hline
0 & 0 & 1 & 2 \
1 & 1 & 0 & 1\
2 & 2 & 1 & 0
end{array}
Since in the second row the element $1$ appears twice, the set is not a group.



In a group, from $xy=xz$ one deduces $y=z$; here, instead, $1*0=1*2$, but $0ne2$.






share|cite|improve this answer









$endgroup$













  • $begingroup$
    Thanks! I feel totally stupid , I even drew the cayley table wrong ! I will take care of such mistakes in future before posting any question , sorry for wasting your time .
    $endgroup$
    – kira0705
    Jun 13 '18 at 14:58






  • 2




    $begingroup$
    @kira0705 Don't worry: staring at some computation without realizing the error happens to everybody.
    $endgroup$
    – egreg
    Jun 13 '18 at 15:44



















9












$begingroup$

The operation $*$ is not associative, since:begin{align}bigl||2-1|-1bigr|&=0\&neq2\&=bigl|2-|1-1|bigr|.end{align}Therefore, $(G,*)$ is not a group.






share|cite|improve this answer











$endgroup$









  • 2




    $begingroup$
    Just wanted to add that associativity does work when $a=b=c$ or when any of the values is zero so to find a counter-example or prove associativity by brute force relatively few cases would need to be checked.
    $endgroup$
    – CyclotomicField
    Jun 13 '18 at 12:52










  • $begingroup$
    thanks it perfectly answers my query !
    $endgroup$
    – kira0705
    Jun 13 '18 at 12:57











Your Answer





StackExchange.ifUsing("editor", function () {
return StackExchange.using("mathjaxEditing", function () {
StackExchange.MarkdownEditor.creationCallbacks.add(function (editor, postfix) {
StackExchange.mathjaxEditing.prepareWmdForMathJax(editor, postfix, [["$", "$"], ["\\(","\\)"]]);
});
});
}, "mathjax-editing");

StackExchange.ready(function() {
var channelOptions = {
tags: "".split(" "),
id: "69"
};
initTagRenderer("".split(" "), "".split(" "), channelOptions);

StackExchange.using("externalEditor", function() {
// Have to fire editor after snippets, if snippets enabled
if (StackExchange.settings.snippets.snippetsEnabled) {
StackExchange.using("snippets", function() {
createEditor();
});
}
else {
createEditor();
}
});

function createEditor() {
StackExchange.prepareEditor({
heartbeatType: 'answer',
autoActivateHeartbeat: false,
convertImagesToLinks: true,
noModals: true,
showLowRepImageUploadWarning: true,
reputationToPostImages: 10,
bindNavPrevention: true,
postfix: "",
imageUploader: {
brandingHtml: "Powered by u003ca class="icon-imgur-white" href="https://imgur.com/"u003eu003c/au003e",
contentPolicyHtml: "User contributions licensed under u003ca href="https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/"u003ecc by-sa 3.0 with attribution requiredu003c/au003e u003ca href="https://stackoverflow.com/legal/content-policy"u003e(content policy)u003c/au003e",
allowUrls: true
},
noCode: true, onDemand: true,
discardSelector: ".discard-answer"
,immediatelyShowMarkdownHelp:true
});


}
});














draft saved

draft discarded


















StackExchange.ready(
function () {
StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fmath.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f2818207%2fcheck-whether-g-is-group-or-not%23new-answer', 'question_page');
}
);

Post as a guest















Required, but never shown

























2 Answers
2






active

oldest

votes








2 Answers
2






active

oldest

votes









active

oldest

votes






active

oldest

votes









4












$begingroup$

The Cayley table (that also shows closure, identity and inverses) is
begin{array}{c|ccc}
* & 0 & 1 & 2 \
hline
0 & 0 & 1 & 2 \
1 & 1 & 0 & 1\
2 & 2 & 1 & 0
end{array}
Since in the second row the element $1$ appears twice, the set is not a group.



In a group, from $xy=xz$ one deduces $y=z$; here, instead, $1*0=1*2$, but $0ne2$.






share|cite|improve this answer









$endgroup$













  • $begingroup$
    Thanks! I feel totally stupid , I even drew the cayley table wrong ! I will take care of such mistakes in future before posting any question , sorry for wasting your time .
    $endgroup$
    – kira0705
    Jun 13 '18 at 14:58






  • 2




    $begingroup$
    @kira0705 Don't worry: staring at some computation without realizing the error happens to everybody.
    $endgroup$
    – egreg
    Jun 13 '18 at 15:44
















4












$begingroup$

The Cayley table (that also shows closure, identity and inverses) is
begin{array}{c|ccc}
* & 0 & 1 & 2 \
hline
0 & 0 & 1 & 2 \
1 & 1 & 0 & 1\
2 & 2 & 1 & 0
end{array}
Since in the second row the element $1$ appears twice, the set is not a group.



In a group, from $xy=xz$ one deduces $y=z$; here, instead, $1*0=1*2$, but $0ne2$.






share|cite|improve this answer









$endgroup$













  • $begingroup$
    Thanks! I feel totally stupid , I even drew the cayley table wrong ! I will take care of such mistakes in future before posting any question , sorry for wasting your time .
    $endgroup$
    – kira0705
    Jun 13 '18 at 14:58






  • 2




    $begingroup$
    @kira0705 Don't worry: staring at some computation without realizing the error happens to everybody.
    $endgroup$
    – egreg
    Jun 13 '18 at 15:44














4












4








4





$begingroup$

The Cayley table (that also shows closure, identity and inverses) is
begin{array}{c|ccc}
* & 0 & 1 & 2 \
hline
0 & 0 & 1 & 2 \
1 & 1 & 0 & 1\
2 & 2 & 1 & 0
end{array}
Since in the second row the element $1$ appears twice, the set is not a group.



In a group, from $xy=xz$ one deduces $y=z$; here, instead, $1*0=1*2$, but $0ne2$.






share|cite|improve this answer









$endgroup$



The Cayley table (that also shows closure, identity and inverses) is
begin{array}{c|ccc}
* & 0 & 1 & 2 \
hline
0 & 0 & 1 & 2 \
1 & 1 & 0 & 1\
2 & 2 & 1 & 0
end{array}
Since in the second row the element $1$ appears twice, the set is not a group.



In a group, from $xy=xz$ one deduces $y=z$; here, instead, $1*0=1*2$, but $0ne2$.







share|cite|improve this answer












share|cite|improve this answer



share|cite|improve this answer










answered Jun 13 '18 at 14:20









egregegreg

180k1485202




180k1485202












  • $begingroup$
    Thanks! I feel totally stupid , I even drew the cayley table wrong ! I will take care of such mistakes in future before posting any question , sorry for wasting your time .
    $endgroup$
    – kira0705
    Jun 13 '18 at 14:58






  • 2




    $begingroup$
    @kira0705 Don't worry: staring at some computation without realizing the error happens to everybody.
    $endgroup$
    – egreg
    Jun 13 '18 at 15:44


















  • $begingroup$
    Thanks! I feel totally stupid , I even drew the cayley table wrong ! I will take care of such mistakes in future before posting any question , sorry for wasting your time .
    $endgroup$
    – kira0705
    Jun 13 '18 at 14:58






  • 2




    $begingroup$
    @kira0705 Don't worry: staring at some computation without realizing the error happens to everybody.
    $endgroup$
    – egreg
    Jun 13 '18 at 15:44
















$begingroup$
Thanks! I feel totally stupid , I even drew the cayley table wrong ! I will take care of such mistakes in future before posting any question , sorry for wasting your time .
$endgroup$
– kira0705
Jun 13 '18 at 14:58




$begingroup$
Thanks! I feel totally stupid , I even drew the cayley table wrong ! I will take care of such mistakes in future before posting any question , sorry for wasting your time .
$endgroup$
– kira0705
Jun 13 '18 at 14:58




2




2




$begingroup$
@kira0705 Don't worry: staring at some computation without realizing the error happens to everybody.
$endgroup$
– egreg
Jun 13 '18 at 15:44




$begingroup$
@kira0705 Don't worry: staring at some computation without realizing the error happens to everybody.
$endgroup$
– egreg
Jun 13 '18 at 15:44











9












$begingroup$

The operation $*$ is not associative, since:begin{align}bigl||2-1|-1bigr|&=0\&neq2\&=bigl|2-|1-1|bigr|.end{align}Therefore, $(G,*)$ is not a group.






share|cite|improve this answer











$endgroup$









  • 2




    $begingroup$
    Just wanted to add that associativity does work when $a=b=c$ or when any of the values is zero so to find a counter-example or prove associativity by brute force relatively few cases would need to be checked.
    $endgroup$
    – CyclotomicField
    Jun 13 '18 at 12:52










  • $begingroup$
    thanks it perfectly answers my query !
    $endgroup$
    – kira0705
    Jun 13 '18 at 12:57
















9












$begingroup$

The operation $*$ is not associative, since:begin{align}bigl||2-1|-1bigr|&=0\&neq2\&=bigl|2-|1-1|bigr|.end{align}Therefore, $(G,*)$ is not a group.






share|cite|improve this answer











$endgroup$









  • 2




    $begingroup$
    Just wanted to add that associativity does work when $a=b=c$ or when any of the values is zero so to find a counter-example or prove associativity by brute force relatively few cases would need to be checked.
    $endgroup$
    – CyclotomicField
    Jun 13 '18 at 12:52










  • $begingroup$
    thanks it perfectly answers my query !
    $endgroup$
    – kira0705
    Jun 13 '18 at 12:57














9












9








9





$begingroup$

The operation $*$ is not associative, since:begin{align}bigl||2-1|-1bigr|&=0\&neq2\&=bigl|2-|1-1|bigr|.end{align}Therefore, $(G,*)$ is not a group.






share|cite|improve this answer











$endgroup$



The operation $*$ is not associative, since:begin{align}bigl||2-1|-1bigr|&=0\&neq2\&=bigl|2-|1-1|bigr|.end{align}Therefore, $(G,*)$ is not a group.







share|cite|improve this answer














share|cite|improve this answer



share|cite|improve this answer








edited Aug 13 '18 at 21:48

























answered Jun 13 '18 at 12:48









José Carlos SantosJosé Carlos Santos

155k22124227




155k22124227








  • 2




    $begingroup$
    Just wanted to add that associativity does work when $a=b=c$ or when any of the values is zero so to find a counter-example or prove associativity by brute force relatively few cases would need to be checked.
    $endgroup$
    – CyclotomicField
    Jun 13 '18 at 12:52










  • $begingroup$
    thanks it perfectly answers my query !
    $endgroup$
    – kira0705
    Jun 13 '18 at 12:57














  • 2




    $begingroup$
    Just wanted to add that associativity does work when $a=b=c$ or when any of the values is zero so to find a counter-example or prove associativity by brute force relatively few cases would need to be checked.
    $endgroup$
    – CyclotomicField
    Jun 13 '18 at 12:52










  • $begingroup$
    thanks it perfectly answers my query !
    $endgroup$
    – kira0705
    Jun 13 '18 at 12:57








2




2




$begingroup$
Just wanted to add that associativity does work when $a=b=c$ or when any of the values is zero so to find a counter-example or prove associativity by brute force relatively few cases would need to be checked.
$endgroup$
– CyclotomicField
Jun 13 '18 at 12:52




$begingroup$
Just wanted to add that associativity does work when $a=b=c$ or when any of the values is zero so to find a counter-example or prove associativity by brute force relatively few cases would need to be checked.
$endgroup$
– CyclotomicField
Jun 13 '18 at 12:52












$begingroup$
thanks it perfectly answers my query !
$endgroup$
– kira0705
Jun 13 '18 at 12:57




$begingroup$
thanks it perfectly answers my query !
$endgroup$
– kira0705
Jun 13 '18 at 12:57


















draft saved

draft discarded




















































Thanks for contributing an answer to Mathematics Stack Exchange!


  • Please be sure to answer the question. Provide details and share your research!

But avoid



  • Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers.

  • Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience.


Use MathJax to format equations. MathJax reference.


To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers.




draft saved


draft discarded














StackExchange.ready(
function () {
StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fmath.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f2818207%2fcheck-whether-g-is-group-or-not%23new-answer', 'question_page');
}
);

Post as a guest















Required, but never shown





















































Required, but never shown














Required, but never shown












Required, but never shown







Required, but never shown

































Required, but never shown














Required, but never shown












Required, but never shown







Required, but never shown







Popular posts from this blog

Wiesbaden

Marschland

Dieringhausen