Solutions to $a, b, c, frac{a}{b}+frac{b}{c}+frac{c}{a}, frac{b}{a} + frac{c}{b} + frac{a}{c} in mathbb{Z}$
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I came across a puzzle in a Maths Calendar I own. Most of them I can do fairly easily, but this one has me stumped, and I was hoping for a hint or solution. The question is:
What are the solutions to
$$left { a, b, c, dfrac{a}{b}+dfrac{b}{c}+dfrac{c}{a}, dfrac{b}{a} + dfrac{c}{b} + dfrac{a}{c} right } subset mathbb{Z}$$
I've tried a few things, but don't think I've made any meaningful progress, besides determining that $a = pm b = pm c $ are the only obvious possible solutions. My hope is to prove that no other solution can exist.
I don't know if it helps, but I also did a brute force search for coprime numbers $a,b,c$ for which $dfrac{a}{b}+dfrac{b}{c}+dfrac{c}{a} in mathbb{Z}$, with $1 leq a leq b leq c$, and $a leq 100, b leq 1000, c leq 10000$.
The reason for coprimality is that if a solution has a common factor, we can divide through by the common factor and have another solution that satisfies the conditions.
The triplets I found which satisfy this are:
$(a, b, c) = (1, 1, 1), (1,2,4), (2, 36, 81), (3, 126, 196), (4, 9, 162), (9, 14, 588), (12, 63, 98), (18, 28, 147), (98, 108, 5103)$
None of these except the first satisfy $dfrac{b}{a} + dfrac{c}{b} + dfrac{a}{c} in mathbb{Z}$.
elementary-number-theory divisibility diophantine-equations recreational-mathematics problem-solving
$endgroup$
|
show 3 more comments
$begingroup$
I came across a puzzle in a Maths Calendar I own. Most of them I can do fairly easily, but this one has me stumped, and I was hoping for a hint or solution. The question is:
What are the solutions to
$$left { a, b, c, dfrac{a}{b}+dfrac{b}{c}+dfrac{c}{a}, dfrac{b}{a} + dfrac{c}{b} + dfrac{a}{c} right } subset mathbb{Z}$$
I've tried a few things, but don't think I've made any meaningful progress, besides determining that $a = pm b = pm c $ are the only obvious possible solutions. My hope is to prove that no other solution can exist.
I don't know if it helps, but I also did a brute force search for coprime numbers $a,b,c$ for which $dfrac{a}{b}+dfrac{b}{c}+dfrac{c}{a} in mathbb{Z}$, with $1 leq a leq b leq c$, and $a leq 100, b leq 1000, c leq 10000$.
The reason for coprimality is that if a solution has a common factor, we can divide through by the common factor and have another solution that satisfies the conditions.
The triplets I found which satisfy this are:
$(a, b, c) = (1, 1, 1), (1,2,4), (2, 36, 81), (3, 126, 196), (4, 9, 162), (9, 14, 588), (12, 63, 98), (18, 28, 147), (98, 108, 5103)$
None of these except the first satisfy $dfrac{b}{a} + dfrac{c}{b} + dfrac{a}{c} in mathbb{Z}$.
elementary-number-theory divisibility diophantine-equations recreational-mathematics problem-solving
$endgroup$
3
$begingroup$
Surely, one solution is obvious.
$endgroup$
– Zachary Selk
Dec 10 '18 at 13:10
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How is $ (a,b,c)=(1,2,4) $ a solution? $ frac{b}{a} + frac{c}{b} + frac{a}{c} = frac{2}{1} + frac{4}{2} + frac{1}{4} = 4 + 1/4 $, not an integer.
$endgroup$
– hellHound
Dec 10 '18 at 13:22
$begingroup$
@hellhound it does not satisfy $b/a + c/b + a/c in mathbb{Z}$, only $a/b+b/c+c/a in mathbb{Z}$
$endgroup$
– Shakespeare
Dec 10 '18 at 13:25
$begingroup$
Oh, I noticed the line about your search now, my bad. Although, if I had to guess, none of the triples from your search except $ (1,1,1) $ would satisfy the problem's requirement.
$endgroup$
– hellHound
Dec 10 '18 at 13:27
1
$begingroup$
@hellhound correct, none of them do :)
$endgroup$
– Shakespeare
Dec 10 '18 at 13:28
|
show 3 more comments
$begingroup$
I came across a puzzle in a Maths Calendar I own. Most of them I can do fairly easily, but this one has me stumped, and I was hoping for a hint or solution. The question is:
What are the solutions to
$$left { a, b, c, dfrac{a}{b}+dfrac{b}{c}+dfrac{c}{a}, dfrac{b}{a} + dfrac{c}{b} + dfrac{a}{c} right } subset mathbb{Z}$$
I've tried a few things, but don't think I've made any meaningful progress, besides determining that $a = pm b = pm c $ are the only obvious possible solutions. My hope is to prove that no other solution can exist.
I don't know if it helps, but I also did a brute force search for coprime numbers $a,b,c$ for which $dfrac{a}{b}+dfrac{b}{c}+dfrac{c}{a} in mathbb{Z}$, with $1 leq a leq b leq c$, and $a leq 100, b leq 1000, c leq 10000$.
The reason for coprimality is that if a solution has a common factor, we can divide through by the common factor and have another solution that satisfies the conditions.
The triplets I found which satisfy this are:
$(a, b, c) = (1, 1, 1), (1,2,4), (2, 36, 81), (3, 126, 196), (4, 9, 162), (9, 14, 588), (12, 63, 98), (18, 28, 147), (98, 108, 5103)$
None of these except the first satisfy $dfrac{b}{a} + dfrac{c}{b} + dfrac{a}{c} in mathbb{Z}$.
elementary-number-theory divisibility diophantine-equations recreational-mathematics problem-solving
$endgroup$
I came across a puzzle in a Maths Calendar I own. Most of them I can do fairly easily, but this one has me stumped, and I was hoping for a hint or solution. The question is:
What are the solutions to
$$left { a, b, c, dfrac{a}{b}+dfrac{b}{c}+dfrac{c}{a}, dfrac{b}{a} + dfrac{c}{b} + dfrac{a}{c} right } subset mathbb{Z}$$
I've tried a few things, but don't think I've made any meaningful progress, besides determining that $a = pm b = pm c $ are the only obvious possible solutions. My hope is to prove that no other solution can exist.
I don't know if it helps, but I also did a brute force search for coprime numbers $a,b,c$ for which $dfrac{a}{b}+dfrac{b}{c}+dfrac{c}{a} in mathbb{Z}$, with $1 leq a leq b leq c$, and $a leq 100, b leq 1000, c leq 10000$.
The reason for coprimality is that if a solution has a common factor, we can divide through by the common factor and have another solution that satisfies the conditions.
The triplets I found which satisfy this are:
$(a, b, c) = (1, 1, 1), (1,2,4), (2, 36, 81), (3, 126, 196), (4, 9, 162), (9, 14, 588), (12, 63, 98), (18, 28, 147), (98, 108, 5103)$
None of these except the first satisfy $dfrac{b}{a} + dfrac{c}{b} + dfrac{a}{c} in mathbb{Z}$.
elementary-number-theory divisibility diophantine-equations recreational-mathematics problem-solving
elementary-number-theory divisibility diophantine-equations recreational-mathematics problem-solving
edited Dec 11 '18 at 12:44
Batominovski
1
1
asked Dec 10 '18 at 13:08
ShakespeareShakespeare
2,504923
2,504923
3
$begingroup$
Surely, one solution is obvious.
$endgroup$
– Zachary Selk
Dec 10 '18 at 13:10
$begingroup$
How is $ (a,b,c)=(1,2,4) $ a solution? $ frac{b}{a} + frac{c}{b} + frac{a}{c} = frac{2}{1} + frac{4}{2} + frac{1}{4} = 4 + 1/4 $, not an integer.
$endgroup$
– hellHound
Dec 10 '18 at 13:22
$begingroup$
@hellhound it does not satisfy $b/a + c/b + a/c in mathbb{Z}$, only $a/b+b/c+c/a in mathbb{Z}$
$endgroup$
– Shakespeare
Dec 10 '18 at 13:25
$begingroup$
Oh, I noticed the line about your search now, my bad. Although, if I had to guess, none of the triples from your search except $ (1,1,1) $ would satisfy the problem's requirement.
$endgroup$
– hellHound
Dec 10 '18 at 13:27
1
$begingroup$
@hellhound correct, none of them do :)
$endgroup$
– Shakespeare
Dec 10 '18 at 13:28
|
show 3 more comments
3
$begingroup$
Surely, one solution is obvious.
$endgroup$
– Zachary Selk
Dec 10 '18 at 13:10
$begingroup$
How is $ (a,b,c)=(1,2,4) $ a solution? $ frac{b}{a} + frac{c}{b} + frac{a}{c} = frac{2}{1} + frac{4}{2} + frac{1}{4} = 4 + 1/4 $, not an integer.
$endgroup$
– hellHound
Dec 10 '18 at 13:22
$begingroup$
@hellhound it does not satisfy $b/a + c/b + a/c in mathbb{Z}$, only $a/b+b/c+c/a in mathbb{Z}$
$endgroup$
– Shakespeare
Dec 10 '18 at 13:25
$begingroup$
Oh, I noticed the line about your search now, my bad. Although, if I had to guess, none of the triples from your search except $ (1,1,1) $ would satisfy the problem's requirement.
$endgroup$
– hellHound
Dec 10 '18 at 13:27
1
$begingroup$
@hellhound correct, none of them do :)
$endgroup$
– Shakespeare
Dec 10 '18 at 13:28
3
3
$begingroup$
Surely, one solution is obvious.
$endgroup$
– Zachary Selk
Dec 10 '18 at 13:10
$begingroup$
Surely, one solution is obvious.
$endgroup$
– Zachary Selk
Dec 10 '18 at 13:10
$begingroup$
How is $ (a,b,c)=(1,2,4) $ a solution? $ frac{b}{a} + frac{c}{b} + frac{a}{c} = frac{2}{1} + frac{4}{2} + frac{1}{4} = 4 + 1/4 $, not an integer.
$endgroup$
– hellHound
Dec 10 '18 at 13:22
$begingroup$
How is $ (a,b,c)=(1,2,4) $ a solution? $ frac{b}{a} + frac{c}{b} + frac{a}{c} = frac{2}{1} + frac{4}{2} + frac{1}{4} = 4 + 1/4 $, not an integer.
$endgroup$
– hellHound
Dec 10 '18 at 13:22
$begingroup$
@hellhound it does not satisfy $b/a + c/b + a/c in mathbb{Z}$, only $a/b+b/c+c/a in mathbb{Z}$
$endgroup$
– Shakespeare
Dec 10 '18 at 13:25
$begingroup$
@hellhound it does not satisfy $b/a + c/b + a/c in mathbb{Z}$, only $a/b+b/c+c/a in mathbb{Z}$
$endgroup$
– Shakespeare
Dec 10 '18 at 13:25
$begingroup$
Oh, I noticed the line about your search now, my bad. Although, if I had to guess, none of the triples from your search except $ (1,1,1) $ would satisfy the problem's requirement.
$endgroup$
– hellHound
Dec 10 '18 at 13:27
$begingroup$
Oh, I noticed the line about your search now, my bad. Although, if I had to guess, none of the triples from your search except $ (1,1,1) $ would satisfy the problem's requirement.
$endgroup$
– hellHound
Dec 10 '18 at 13:27
1
1
$begingroup$
@hellhound correct, none of them do :)
$endgroup$
– Shakespeare
Dec 10 '18 at 13:28
$begingroup$
@hellhound correct, none of them do :)
$endgroup$
– Shakespeare
Dec 10 '18 at 13:28
|
show 3 more comments
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
$begingroup$
Suppose that $displaystyle a,b,c,frac{a}{b}+frac{b}{c}+frac{c}{a},frac{a}{c}+frac{b}{a}+frac{c}{b} in mathbb Z$.
Consider polynomial
$$P(x)=left(x-frac{a}{b}right)left(x-frac{b}{c}right)left(x-frac{c}{a}right) = x^3-left(frac{a}{b}+frac{b}{c}+frac{c}{a}right)x^2+left(frac{a}{c}+frac{b}{a}+frac{c}{b}right)x-1.$$
Its coefficients are integers. Since the leading coefficient is $1$, all rational roots of $P$ are integers. Since the constant term is $-1$, it follows that all integer roots of $P$ are $1$ or $-1$ (they must divide the constant term). Since $dfrac ab, dfrac bc, dfrac ca$ are rational roots of $P$, it follows that $dfrac ab, dfrac bc, dfrac ca in {-1,1}$.
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
Beautiful! I don't think I ever would have thought of this.
$endgroup$
– Shakespeare
Dec 10 '18 at 15:27
$begingroup$
@Shakespeare See also this prior symmetric variant.
$endgroup$
– Bill Dubuque
Dec 10 '18 at 22:21
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Let $(a,b,c)$ satisfy the requirements. Let $(a,b,c)$ are coprime. Then
$abc$ divides both
$a^2c + b^2a + c^2b$ and $a^2b+b^2c+c^2a$.
Let $p$ be a prime factor of $a$.
Let $d$ be the largest number such that $p^d$ divides $a$.
Then $p$ divides $b^2c$ and $c^2b$. Assume $p$ divides $b$ (and does not divide $c$).
Since $p^{d+1}$ divides $a^2$, $ab$, and $abc$, where the latter divides $a^2c + b^2a + c^2b$, it follows $p^{d+1}$ divides $b$.
This in turn implies that $p^{d+1}$ divides $a^2b+b^2c+c^2a$.
Now, $p$ does not divide $c$ by assumption of coprimality, hence $p^{d+1}$ divides $a$, a contradiction to the maximality of $d$.
Hence, none of $a,b,c$ has a prime factor. So all these numbers are equal $pm1$.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
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2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
active
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active
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votes
$begingroup$
Suppose that $displaystyle a,b,c,frac{a}{b}+frac{b}{c}+frac{c}{a},frac{a}{c}+frac{b}{a}+frac{c}{b} in mathbb Z$.
Consider polynomial
$$P(x)=left(x-frac{a}{b}right)left(x-frac{b}{c}right)left(x-frac{c}{a}right) = x^3-left(frac{a}{b}+frac{b}{c}+frac{c}{a}right)x^2+left(frac{a}{c}+frac{b}{a}+frac{c}{b}right)x-1.$$
Its coefficients are integers. Since the leading coefficient is $1$, all rational roots of $P$ are integers. Since the constant term is $-1$, it follows that all integer roots of $P$ are $1$ or $-1$ (they must divide the constant term). Since $dfrac ab, dfrac bc, dfrac ca$ are rational roots of $P$, it follows that $dfrac ab, dfrac bc, dfrac ca in {-1,1}$.
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
Beautiful! I don't think I ever would have thought of this.
$endgroup$
– Shakespeare
Dec 10 '18 at 15:27
$begingroup$
@Shakespeare See also this prior symmetric variant.
$endgroup$
– Bill Dubuque
Dec 10 '18 at 22:21
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Suppose that $displaystyle a,b,c,frac{a}{b}+frac{b}{c}+frac{c}{a},frac{a}{c}+frac{b}{a}+frac{c}{b} in mathbb Z$.
Consider polynomial
$$P(x)=left(x-frac{a}{b}right)left(x-frac{b}{c}right)left(x-frac{c}{a}right) = x^3-left(frac{a}{b}+frac{b}{c}+frac{c}{a}right)x^2+left(frac{a}{c}+frac{b}{a}+frac{c}{b}right)x-1.$$
Its coefficients are integers. Since the leading coefficient is $1$, all rational roots of $P$ are integers. Since the constant term is $-1$, it follows that all integer roots of $P$ are $1$ or $-1$ (they must divide the constant term). Since $dfrac ab, dfrac bc, dfrac ca$ are rational roots of $P$, it follows that $dfrac ab, dfrac bc, dfrac ca in {-1,1}$.
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
Beautiful! I don't think I ever would have thought of this.
$endgroup$
– Shakespeare
Dec 10 '18 at 15:27
$begingroup$
@Shakespeare See also this prior symmetric variant.
$endgroup$
– Bill Dubuque
Dec 10 '18 at 22:21
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Suppose that $displaystyle a,b,c,frac{a}{b}+frac{b}{c}+frac{c}{a},frac{a}{c}+frac{b}{a}+frac{c}{b} in mathbb Z$.
Consider polynomial
$$P(x)=left(x-frac{a}{b}right)left(x-frac{b}{c}right)left(x-frac{c}{a}right) = x^3-left(frac{a}{b}+frac{b}{c}+frac{c}{a}right)x^2+left(frac{a}{c}+frac{b}{a}+frac{c}{b}right)x-1.$$
Its coefficients are integers. Since the leading coefficient is $1$, all rational roots of $P$ are integers. Since the constant term is $-1$, it follows that all integer roots of $P$ are $1$ or $-1$ (they must divide the constant term). Since $dfrac ab, dfrac bc, dfrac ca$ are rational roots of $P$, it follows that $dfrac ab, dfrac bc, dfrac ca in {-1,1}$.
$endgroup$
Suppose that $displaystyle a,b,c,frac{a}{b}+frac{b}{c}+frac{c}{a},frac{a}{c}+frac{b}{a}+frac{c}{b} in mathbb Z$.
Consider polynomial
$$P(x)=left(x-frac{a}{b}right)left(x-frac{b}{c}right)left(x-frac{c}{a}right) = x^3-left(frac{a}{b}+frac{b}{c}+frac{c}{a}right)x^2+left(frac{a}{c}+frac{b}{a}+frac{c}{b}right)x-1.$$
Its coefficients are integers. Since the leading coefficient is $1$, all rational roots of $P$ are integers. Since the constant term is $-1$, it follows that all integer roots of $P$ are $1$ or $-1$ (they must divide the constant term). Since $dfrac ab, dfrac bc, dfrac ca$ are rational roots of $P$, it follows that $dfrac ab, dfrac bc, dfrac ca in {-1,1}$.
edited Dec 10 '18 at 16:34
answered Dec 10 '18 at 15:13
timon92timon92
4,3431826
4,3431826
$begingroup$
Beautiful! I don't think I ever would have thought of this.
$endgroup$
– Shakespeare
Dec 10 '18 at 15:27
$begingroup$
@Shakespeare See also this prior symmetric variant.
$endgroup$
– Bill Dubuque
Dec 10 '18 at 22:21
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Beautiful! I don't think I ever would have thought of this.
$endgroup$
– Shakespeare
Dec 10 '18 at 15:27
$begingroup$
@Shakespeare See also this prior symmetric variant.
$endgroup$
– Bill Dubuque
Dec 10 '18 at 22:21
$begingroup$
Beautiful! I don't think I ever would have thought of this.
$endgroup$
– Shakespeare
Dec 10 '18 at 15:27
$begingroup$
Beautiful! I don't think I ever would have thought of this.
$endgroup$
– Shakespeare
Dec 10 '18 at 15:27
$begingroup$
@Shakespeare See also this prior symmetric variant.
$endgroup$
– Bill Dubuque
Dec 10 '18 at 22:21
$begingroup$
@Shakespeare See also this prior symmetric variant.
$endgroup$
– Bill Dubuque
Dec 10 '18 at 22:21
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Let $(a,b,c)$ satisfy the requirements. Let $(a,b,c)$ are coprime. Then
$abc$ divides both
$a^2c + b^2a + c^2b$ and $a^2b+b^2c+c^2a$.
Let $p$ be a prime factor of $a$.
Let $d$ be the largest number such that $p^d$ divides $a$.
Then $p$ divides $b^2c$ and $c^2b$. Assume $p$ divides $b$ (and does not divide $c$).
Since $p^{d+1}$ divides $a^2$, $ab$, and $abc$, where the latter divides $a^2c + b^2a + c^2b$, it follows $p^{d+1}$ divides $b$.
This in turn implies that $p^{d+1}$ divides $a^2b+b^2c+c^2a$.
Now, $p$ does not divide $c$ by assumption of coprimality, hence $p^{d+1}$ divides $a$, a contradiction to the maximality of $d$.
Hence, none of $a,b,c$ has a prime factor. So all these numbers are equal $pm1$.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Let $(a,b,c)$ satisfy the requirements. Let $(a,b,c)$ are coprime. Then
$abc$ divides both
$a^2c + b^2a + c^2b$ and $a^2b+b^2c+c^2a$.
Let $p$ be a prime factor of $a$.
Let $d$ be the largest number such that $p^d$ divides $a$.
Then $p$ divides $b^2c$ and $c^2b$. Assume $p$ divides $b$ (and does not divide $c$).
Since $p^{d+1}$ divides $a^2$, $ab$, and $abc$, where the latter divides $a^2c + b^2a + c^2b$, it follows $p^{d+1}$ divides $b$.
This in turn implies that $p^{d+1}$ divides $a^2b+b^2c+c^2a$.
Now, $p$ does not divide $c$ by assumption of coprimality, hence $p^{d+1}$ divides $a$, a contradiction to the maximality of $d$.
Hence, none of $a,b,c$ has a prime factor. So all these numbers are equal $pm1$.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Let $(a,b,c)$ satisfy the requirements. Let $(a,b,c)$ are coprime. Then
$abc$ divides both
$a^2c + b^2a + c^2b$ and $a^2b+b^2c+c^2a$.
Let $p$ be a prime factor of $a$.
Let $d$ be the largest number such that $p^d$ divides $a$.
Then $p$ divides $b^2c$ and $c^2b$. Assume $p$ divides $b$ (and does not divide $c$).
Since $p^{d+1}$ divides $a^2$, $ab$, and $abc$, where the latter divides $a^2c + b^2a + c^2b$, it follows $p^{d+1}$ divides $b$.
This in turn implies that $p^{d+1}$ divides $a^2b+b^2c+c^2a$.
Now, $p$ does not divide $c$ by assumption of coprimality, hence $p^{d+1}$ divides $a$, a contradiction to the maximality of $d$.
Hence, none of $a,b,c$ has a prime factor. So all these numbers are equal $pm1$.
$endgroup$
Let $(a,b,c)$ satisfy the requirements. Let $(a,b,c)$ are coprime. Then
$abc$ divides both
$a^2c + b^2a + c^2b$ and $a^2b+b^2c+c^2a$.
Let $p$ be a prime factor of $a$.
Let $d$ be the largest number such that $p^d$ divides $a$.
Then $p$ divides $b^2c$ and $c^2b$. Assume $p$ divides $b$ (and does not divide $c$).
Since $p^{d+1}$ divides $a^2$, $ab$, and $abc$, where the latter divides $a^2c + b^2a + c^2b$, it follows $p^{d+1}$ divides $b$.
This in turn implies that $p^{d+1}$ divides $a^2b+b^2c+c^2a$.
Now, $p$ does not divide $c$ by assumption of coprimality, hence $p^{d+1}$ divides $a$, a contradiction to the maximality of $d$.
Hence, none of $a,b,c$ has a prime factor. So all these numbers are equal $pm1$.
edited Dec 10 '18 at 15:15
answered Dec 10 '18 at 15:10
dawdaw
24.1k1544
24.1k1544
add a comment |
add a comment |
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3
$begingroup$
Surely, one solution is obvious.
$endgroup$
– Zachary Selk
Dec 10 '18 at 13:10
$begingroup$
How is $ (a,b,c)=(1,2,4) $ a solution? $ frac{b}{a} + frac{c}{b} + frac{a}{c} = frac{2}{1} + frac{4}{2} + frac{1}{4} = 4 + 1/4 $, not an integer.
$endgroup$
– hellHound
Dec 10 '18 at 13:22
$begingroup$
@hellhound it does not satisfy $b/a + c/b + a/c in mathbb{Z}$, only $a/b+b/c+c/a in mathbb{Z}$
$endgroup$
– Shakespeare
Dec 10 '18 at 13:25
$begingroup$
Oh, I noticed the line about your search now, my bad. Although, if I had to guess, none of the triples from your search except $ (1,1,1) $ would satisfy the problem's requirement.
$endgroup$
– hellHound
Dec 10 '18 at 13:27
1
$begingroup$
@hellhound correct, none of them do :)
$endgroup$
– Shakespeare
Dec 10 '18 at 13:28