Properties of Counting Measures Restricted to a Particular Sigma Algebra











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Define $mathcal{F}={Asubseteqmathbb{R} vert 0in A^{mathrm{o}} or 0 in (A^c)^{mathrm{o}} }$, where $A^{mathrm{o}}$ is the interior of $A$. It can be shown quite easily that $mathcal{F}$ is an algebra of sets, and that $sigma(mathcal{F})$ contains the singletons of $mathbb{R}$.



If $gamma$ is the counting measure on $(mathbb{R},mathcal{P}(mathbb{R}))$, let $alpha(A)=gamma(A cap {frac{1}{n} vert n in mathbb{N} })$ and $beta(A)=gamma(A cap {frac{1}{n} vert n in mathbb{N} } cup {0})$. If we define $mu := left.alpha right|_{sigma(mathcal{F})}$ and $nu := left.beta right|_{sigma(mathcal{F})}$ (the restrictions of $mu$ and $nu$ to
$sigma(mathcal{F})$) then it turns out that:



a) both $mu$ and $nu$ are $sigma$-finite.



b) $mu$ and $nu$ coincide on $mathcal{F}$ (that is, $mu(A)=nu(A)$, $forall A in mathcal{F}$).



c) $mu neq nu(A)$ on $sigma(mathcal{F})$.



I am having trouble in proving these 3 facts, and any help/hints to help push me towards the right direction will be much appreciated.



In particular, I'm having difficulty in working with any general set $Ain sigma(mathcal{F})$; I currently have no clue on how to construct a sequence $(A_n)_{n=1}^{infty}$ in $sigma(mathcal{F})$ such that $bigcuplimits_{n=1}^{infty}A_n = mathbb{R}$ with $mu(A_n)<infty$ and $nu(A_n)<infty$.



EDIT: I've actually made some progress with this since asking: I have solutions to b) and c), and have partial work for a). The struggle in part a) remains with constructing such a sequence of sets. Best I've come up with is $(A_k)_{k=1}^{infty}=(-k,-frac{1}{k}] cup [frac{1}{k},k)$, and in this case, $0 in (A_k^c)^{mathrm{o}}$ with $mu(A_k)<infty$ and $nu(A_k)<infty$. Problem here is that the countable union isn't the whole real line (it misses ${0}$!). Similarly, I've also considered the sequence $(A_k)_{k=1}^{infty}=(-k,0] cup [frac{1}{k},k)$, whose countable union is all of $mathbb{R}$, $mu$ and $nu$ are finite $forall k$, but this sequence is not in $mathcal{F}$.










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  • you don't have to construct a sequence which the union is equal $sigma(mathcal{F})$, but $X$ instead. As $Xin sigma(mathcal{F})$ the sigma-algebra is a family of sets, not a kind of 'measure subspace'
    – Robson
    Nov 18 at 22:33












  • Thank you, I'll make the edit!
    – Buttfor
    Nov 18 at 22:39










  • Why do you want $A_k$ to be in $mathcal{F}$? For sigma-finite you only need $A_kin sigma(mathcal{F})$.
    – Severin Schraven
    yesterday










  • In fact, your proposed $A_k = (-k, 0] cup [frac{1}{k}, k)$ works just fine.
    – Severin Schraven
    yesterday















up vote
2
down vote

favorite
3












Define $mathcal{F}={Asubseteqmathbb{R} vert 0in A^{mathrm{o}} or 0 in (A^c)^{mathrm{o}} }$, where $A^{mathrm{o}}$ is the interior of $A$. It can be shown quite easily that $mathcal{F}$ is an algebra of sets, and that $sigma(mathcal{F})$ contains the singletons of $mathbb{R}$.



If $gamma$ is the counting measure on $(mathbb{R},mathcal{P}(mathbb{R}))$, let $alpha(A)=gamma(A cap {frac{1}{n} vert n in mathbb{N} })$ and $beta(A)=gamma(A cap {frac{1}{n} vert n in mathbb{N} } cup {0})$. If we define $mu := left.alpha right|_{sigma(mathcal{F})}$ and $nu := left.beta right|_{sigma(mathcal{F})}$ (the restrictions of $mu$ and $nu$ to
$sigma(mathcal{F})$) then it turns out that:



a) both $mu$ and $nu$ are $sigma$-finite.



b) $mu$ and $nu$ coincide on $mathcal{F}$ (that is, $mu(A)=nu(A)$, $forall A in mathcal{F}$).



c) $mu neq nu(A)$ on $sigma(mathcal{F})$.



I am having trouble in proving these 3 facts, and any help/hints to help push me towards the right direction will be much appreciated.



In particular, I'm having difficulty in working with any general set $Ain sigma(mathcal{F})$; I currently have no clue on how to construct a sequence $(A_n)_{n=1}^{infty}$ in $sigma(mathcal{F})$ such that $bigcuplimits_{n=1}^{infty}A_n = mathbb{R}$ with $mu(A_n)<infty$ and $nu(A_n)<infty$.



EDIT: I've actually made some progress with this since asking: I have solutions to b) and c), and have partial work for a). The struggle in part a) remains with constructing such a sequence of sets. Best I've come up with is $(A_k)_{k=1}^{infty}=(-k,-frac{1}{k}] cup [frac{1}{k},k)$, and in this case, $0 in (A_k^c)^{mathrm{o}}$ with $mu(A_k)<infty$ and $nu(A_k)<infty$. Problem here is that the countable union isn't the whole real line (it misses ${0}$!). Similarly, I've also considered the sequence $(A_k)_{k=1}^{infty}=(-k,0] cup [frac{1}{k},k)$, whose countable union is all of $mathbb{R}$, $mu$ and $nu$ are finite $forall k$, but this sequence is not in $mathcal{F}$.










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  • you don't have to construct a sequence which the union is equal $sigma(mathcal{F})$, but $X$ instead. As $Xin sigma(mathcal{F})$ the sigma-algebra is a family of sets, not a kind of 'measure subspace'
    – Robson
    Nov 18 at 22:33












  • Thank you, I'll make the edit!
    – Buttfor
    Nov 18 at 22:39










  • Why do you want $A_k$ to be in $mathcal{F}$? For sigma-finite you only need $A_kin sigma(mathcal{F})$.
    – Severin Schraven
    yesterday










  • In fact, your proposed $A_k = (-k, 0] cup [frac{1}{k}, k)$ works just fine.
    – Severin Schraven
    yesterday













up vote
2
down vote

favorite
3









up vote
2
down vote

favorite
3






3





Define $mathcal{F}={Asubseteqmathbb{R} vert 0in A^{mathrm{o}} or 0 in (A^c)^{mathrm{o}} }$, where $A^{mathrm{o}}$ is the interior of $A$. It can be shown quite easily that $mathcal{F}$ is an algebra of sets, and that $sigma(mathcal{F})$ contains the singletons of $mathbb{R}$.



If $gamma$ is the counting measure on $(mathbb{R},mathcal{P}(mathbb{R}))$, let $alpha(A)=gamma(A cap {frac{1}{n} vert n in mathbb{N} })$ and $beta(A)=gamma(A cap {frac{1}{n} vert n in mathbb{N} } cup {0})$. If we define $mu := left.alpha right|_{sigma(mathcal{F})}$ and $nu := left.beta right|_{sigma(mathcal{F})}$ (the restrictions of $mu$ and $nu$ to
$sigma(mathcal{F})$) then it turns out that:



a) both $mu$ and $nu$ are $sigma$-finite.



b) $mu$ and $nu$ coincide on $mathcal{F}$ (that is, $mu(A)=nu(A)$, $forall A in mathcal{F}$).



c) $mu neq nu(A)$ on $sigma(mathcal{F})$.



I am having trouble in proving these 3 facts, and any help/hints to help push me towards the right direction will be much appreciated.



In particular, I'm having difficulty in working with any general set $Ain sigma(mathcal{F})$; I currently have no clue on how to construct a sequence $(A_n)_{n=1}^{infty}$ in $sigma(mathcal{F})$ such that $bigcuplimits_{n=1}^{infty}A_n = mathbb{R}$ with $mu(A_n)<infty$ and $nu(A_n)<infty$.



EDIT: I've actually made some progress with this since asking: I have solutions to b) and c), and have partial work for a). The struggle in part a) remains with constructing such a sequence of sets. Best I've come up with is $(A_k)_{k=1}^{infty}=(-k,-frac{1}{k}] cup [frac{1}{k},k)$, and in this case, $0 in (A_k^c)^{mathrm{o}}$ with $mu(A_k)<infty$ and $nu(A_k)<infty$. Problem here is that the countable union isn't the whole real line (it misses ${0}$!). Similarly, I've also considered the sequence $(A_k)_{k=1}^{infty}=(-k,0] cup [frac{1}{k},k)$, whose countable union is all of $mathbb{R}$, $mu$ and $nu$ are finite $forall k$, but this sequence is not in $mathcal{F}$.










share|cite|improve this question















Define $mathcal{F}={Asubseteqmathbb{R} vert 0in A^{mathrm{o}} or 0 in (A^c)^{mathrm{o}} }$, where $A^{mathrm{o}}$ is the interior of $A$. It can be shown quite easily that $mathcal{F}$ is an algebra of sets, and that $sigma(mathcal{F})$ contains the singletons of $mathbb{R}$.



If $gamma$ is the counting measure on $(mathbb{R},mathcal{P}(mathbb{R}))$, let $alpha(A)=gamma(A cap {frac{1}{n} vert n in mathbb{N} })$ and $beta(A)=gamma(A cap {frac{1}{n} vert n in mathbb{N} } cup {0})$. If we define $mu := left.alpha right|_{sigma(mathcal{F})}$ and $nu := left.beta right|_{sigma(mathcal{F})}$ (the restrictions of $mu$ and $nu$ to
$sigma(mathcal{F})$) then it turns out that:



a) both $mu$ and $nu$ are $sigma$-finite.



b) $mu$ and $nu$ coincide on $mathcal{F}$ (that is, $mu(A)=nu(A)$, $forall A in mathcal{F}$).



c) $mu neq nu(A)$ on $sigma(mathcal{F})$.



I am having trouble in proving these 3 facts, and any help/hints to help push me towards the right direction will be much appreciated.



In particular, I'm having difficulty in working with any general set $Ain sigma(mathcal{F})$; I currently have no clue on how to construct a sequence $(A_n)_{n=1}^{infty}$ in $sigma(mathcal{F})$ such that $bigcuplimits_{n=1}^{infty}A_n = mathbb{R}$ with $mu(A_n)<infty$ and $nu(A_n)<infty$.



EDIT: I've actually made some progress with this since asking: I have solutions to b) and c), and have partial work for a). The struggle in part a) remains with constructing such a sequence of sets. Best I've come up with is $(A_k)_{k=1}^{infty}=(-k,-frac{1}{k}] cup [frac{1}{k},k)$, and in this case, $0 in (A_k^c)^{mathrm{o}}$ with $mu(A_k)<infty$ and $nu(A_k)<infty$. Problem here is that the countable union isn't the whole real line (it misses ${0}$!). Similarly, I've also considered the sequence $(A_k)_{k=1}^{infty}=(-k,0] cup [frac{1}{k},k)$, whose countable union is all of $mathbb{R}$, $mu$ and $nu$ are finite $forall k$, but this sequence is not in $mathcal{F}$.







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edited Nov 21 at 2:56

























asked Nov 18 at 19:33









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This question has an open bounty worth +50
reputation from Jane Doe ending in 6 days.


This question has not received enough attention.


Looking for a complete answer or detailed hints with a suggest source for further information.














  • you don't have to construct a sequence which the union is equal $sigma(mathcal{F})$, but $X$ instead. As $Xin sigma(mathcal{F})$ the sigma-algebra is a family of sets, not a kind of 'measure subspace'
    – Robson
    Nov 18 at 22:33












  • Thank you, I'll make the edit!
    – Buttfor
    Nov 18 at 22:39










  • Why do you want $A_k$ to be in $mathcal{F}$? For sigma-finite you only need $A_kin sigma(mathcal{F})$.
    – Severin Schraven
    yesterday










  • In fact, your proposed $A_k = (-k, 0] cup [frac{1}{k}, k)$ works just fine.
    – Severin Schraven
    yesterday


















  • you don't have to construct a sequence which the union is equal $sigma(mathcal{F})$, but $X$ instead. As $Xin sigma(mathcal{F})$ the sigma-algebra is a family of sets, not a kind of 'measure subspace'
    – Robson
    Nov 18 at 22:33












  • Thank you, I'll make the edit!
    – Buttfor
    Nov 18 at 22:39










  • Why do you want $A_k$ to be in $mathcal{F}$? For sigma-finite you only need $A_kin sigma(mathcal{F})$.
    – Severin Schraven
    yesterday










  • In fact, your proposed $A_k = (-k, 0] cup [frac{1}{k}, k)$ works just fine.
    – Severin Schraven
    yesterday
















you don't have to construct a sequence which the union is equal $sigma(mathcal{F})$, but $X$ instead. As $Xin sigma(mathcal{F})$ the sigma-algebra is a family of sets, not a kind of 'measure subspace'
– Robson
Nov 18 at 22:33






you don't have to construct a sequence which the union is equal $sigma(mathcal{F})$, but $X$ instead. As $Xin sigma(mathcal{F})$ the sigma-algebra is a family of sets, not a kind of 'measure subspace'
– Robson
Nov 18 at 22:33














Thank you, I'll make the edit!
– Buttfor
Nov 18 at 22:39




Thank you, I'll make the edit!
– Buttfor
Nov 18 at 22:39












Why do you want $A_k$ to be in $mathcal{F}$? For sigma-finite you only need $A_kin sigma(mathcal{F})$.
– Severin Schraven
yesterday




Why do you want $A_k$ to be in $mathcal{F}$? For sigma-finite you only need $A_kin sigma(mathcal{F})$.
– Severin Schraven
yesterday












In fact, your proposed $A_k = (-k, 0] cup [frac{1}{k}, k)$ works just fine.
– Severin Schraven
yesterday




In fact, your proposed $A_k = (-k, 0] cup [frac{1}{k}, k)$ works just fine.
– Severin Schraven
yesterday










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1.) We have
$$ (-infty, 0] = bigcap_{ngeq 1} (-infty, frac{1}{n}) in sigma(mathcal{F}) $$
as well as $ [frac{1}{k}, k) $ for all $kin mathbb{N}$. We define
$$ A_k := (-infty, 0] cup [frac{1}{k}, k) in sigma(mathcal{F}).$$
We note that
$$ mathbb{R} = bigcup_{kgeq 1} A_k.$$
If we can show that those $A_k$ have finite measure for both $mu$ and $nu$, then we have shown that $mu$ and $nu$ are sigma-finite. Indeed, we have
$$ mu(A_k) = gamma ({ nin mathbb{N} : frac{1}{n} in A_k }) = gamma({1, dots, k}) = k. $$
Similarly, we have
$$ nu(A_k) = k+1 $$
(the plus one comes from $0in A_k$). We conclude that $mu, nu$ are sigma-finite.



2.) Pick $Ain mathcal{F}$. By the very definition of $mathcal{F}$ we have two cases:



Firstly, we consider the case $0in A^o$. This means, that there exists $1>varepsilon>0$ such that $(-varepsilon, varepsilon)subseteq A$. However, then we have
$$ mu(A) = infty = nu(A) $$
as there exists $N>1$ such that for all $ngeq N$ we have $0<frac{1}{n}<varepsilon <frac{1}{N}$ and hence
$$ mu(A) geq mu((-varepsilon, varepsilon)) = gamma({ nin mathbb{N} : n>N })= infty. $$
Similarly one shows that $nu(A)=infty$.



In the second case we have that $0in (mathbb{R}setminus A)^o$. Then we have that $0notin A$ and thus, we have $mu(A)=nu(A)$ as we have by definition
$$ nu(A) = mu(A) + gamma(Acap {0}). $$



c.) For this we recall that the singelons are in the sigma-algebra and hence, we have ${0}in sigma(mathcal{F})$ and
$$ nu({0})= 1 neq 0 = mu({0}).$$






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    1.) We have
    $$ (-infty, 0] = bigcap_{ngeq 1} (-infty, frac{1}{n}) in sigma(mathcal{F}) $$
    as well as $ [frac{1}{k}, k) $ for all $kin mathbb{N}$. We define
    $$ A_k := (-infty, 0] cup [frac{1}{k}, k) in sigma(mathcal{F}).$$
    We note that
    $$ mathbb{R} = bigcup_{kgeq 1} A_k.$$
    If we can show that those $A_k$ have finite measure for both $mu$ and $nu$, then we have shown that $mu$ and $nu$ are sigma-finite. Indeed, we have
    $$ mu(A_k) = gamma ({ nin mathbb{N} : frac{1}{n} in A_k }) = gamma({1, dots, k}) = k. $$
    Similarly, we have
    $$ nu(A_k) = k+1 $$
    (the plus one comes from $0in A_k$). We conclude that $mu, nu$ are sigma-finite.



    2.) Pick $Ain mathcal{F}$. By the very definition of $mathcal{F}$ we have two cases:



    Firstly, we consider the case $0in A^o$. This means, that there exists $1>varepsilon>0$ such that $(-varepsilon, varepsilon)subseteq A$. However, then we have
    $$ mu(A) = infty = nu(A) $$
    as there exists $N>1$ such that for all $ngeq N$ we have $0<frac{1}{n}<varepsilon <frac{1}{N}$ and hence
    $$ mu(A) geq mu((-varepsilon, varepsilon)) = gamma({ nin mathbb{N} : n>N })= infty. $$
    Similarly one shows that $nu(A)=infty$.



    In the second case we have that $0in (mathbb{R}setminus A)^o$. Then we have that $0notin A$ and thus, we have $mu(A)=nu(A)$ as we have by definition
    $$ nu(A) = mu(A) + gamma(Acap {0}). $$



    c.) For this we recall that the singelons are in the sigma-algebra and hence, we have ${0}in sigma(mathcal{F})$ and
    $$ nu({0})= 1 neq 0 = mu({0}).$$






    share|cite|improve this answer

























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      down vote













      1.) We have
      $$ (-infty, 0] = bigcap_{ngeq 1} (-infty, frac{1}{n}) in sigma(mathcal{F}) $$
      as well as $ [frac{1}{k}, k) $ for all $kin mathbb{N}$. We define
      $$ A_k := (-infty, 0] cup [frac{1}{k}, k) in sigma(mathcal{F}).$$
      We note that
      $$ mathbb{R} = bigcup_{kgeq 1} A_k.$$
      If we can show that those $A_k$ have finite measure for both $mu$ and $nu$, then we have shown that $mu$ and $nu$ are sigma-finite. Indeed, we have
      $$ mu(A_k) = gamma ({ nin mathbb{N} : frac{1}{n} in A_k }) = gamma({1, dots, k}) = k. $$
      Similarly, we have
      $$ nu(A_k) = k+1 $$
      (the plus one comes from $0in A_k$). We conclude that $mu, nu$ are sigma-finite.



      2.) Pick $Ain mathcal{F}$. By the very definition of $mathcal{F}$ we have two cases:



      Firstly, we consider the case $0in A^o$. This means, that there exists $1>varepsilon>0$ such that $(-varepsilon, varepsilon)subseteq A$. However, then we have
      $$ mu(A) = infty = nu(A) $$
      as there exists $N>1$ such that for all $ngeq N$ we have $0<frac{1}{n}<varepsilon <frac{1}{N}$ and hence
      $$ mu(A) geq mu((-varepsilon, varepsilon)) = gamma({ nin mathbb{N} : n>N })= infty. $$
      Similarly one shows that $nu(A)=infty$.



      In the second case we have that $0in (mathbb{R}setminus A)^o$. Then we have that $0notin A$ and thus, we have $mu(A)=nu(A)$ as we have by definition
      $$ nu(A) = mu(A) + gamma(Acap {0}). $$



      c.) For this we recall that the singelons are in the sigma-algebra and hence, we have ${0}in sigma(mathcal{F})$ and
      $$ nu({0})= 1 neq 0 = mu({0}).$$






      share|cite|improve this answer























        up vote
        1
        down vote










        up vote
        1
        down vote









        1.) We have
        $$ (-infty, 0] = bigcap_{ngeq 1} (-infty, frac{1}{n}) in sigma(mathcal{F}) $$
        as well as $ [frac{1}{k}, k) $ for all $kin mathbb{N}$. We define
        $$ A_k := (-infty, 0] cup [frac{1}{k}, k) in sigma(mathcal{F}).$$
        We note that
        $$ mathbb{R} = bigcup_{kgeq 1} A_k.$$
        If we can show that those $A_k$ have finite measure for both $mu$ and $nu$, then we have shown that $mu$ and $nu$ are sigma-finite. Indeed, we have
        $$ mu(A_k) = gamma ({ nin mathbb{N} : frac{1}{n} in A_k }) = gamma({1, dots, k}) = k. $$
        Similarly, we have
        $$ nu(A_k) = k+1 $$
        (the plus one comes from $0in A_k$). We conclude that $mu, nu$ are sigma-finite.



        2.) Pick $Ain mathcal{F}$. By the very definition of $mathcal{F}$ we have two cases:



        Firstly, we consider the case $0in A^o$. This means, that there exists $1>varepsilon>0$ such that $(-varepsilon, varepsilon)subseteq A$. However, then we have
        $$ mu(A) = infty = nu(A) $$
        as there exists $N>1$ such that for all $ngeq N$ we have $0<frac{1}{n}<varepsilon <frac{1}{N}$ and hence
        $$ mu(A) geq mu((-varepsilon, varepsilon)) = gamma({ nin mathbb{N} : n>N })= infty. $$
        Similarly one shows that $nu(A)=infty$.



        In the second case we have that $0in (mathbb{R}setminus A)^o$. Then we have that $0notin A$ and thus, we have $mu(A)=nu(A)$ as we have by definition
        $$ nu(A) = mu(A) + gamma(Acap {0}). $$



        c.) For this we recall that the singelons are in the sigma-algebra and hence, we have ${0}in sigma(mathcal{F})$ and
        $$ nu({0})= 1 neq 0 = mu({0}).$$






        share|cite|improve this answer












        1.) We have
        $$ (-infty, 0] = bigcap_{ngeq 1} (-infty, frac{1}{n}) in sigma(mathcal{F}) $$
        as well as $ [frac{1}{k}, k) $ for all $kin mathbb{N}$. We define
        $$ A_k := (-infty, 0] cup [frac{1}{k}, k) in sigma(mathcal{F}).$$
        We note that
        $$ mathbb{R} = bigcup_{kgeq 1} A_k.$$
        If we can show that those $A_k$ have finite measure for both $mu$ and $nu$, then we have shown that $mu$ and $nu$ are sigma-finite. Indeed, we have
        $$ mu(A_k) = gamma ({ nin mathbb{N} : frac{1}{n} in A_k }) = gamma({1, dots, k}) = k. $$
        Similarly, we have
        $$ nu(A_k) = k+1 $$
        (the plus one comes from $0in A_k$). We conclude that $mu, nu$ are sigma-finite.



        2.) Pick $Ain mathcal{F}$. By the very definition of $mathcal{F}$ we have two cases:



        Firstly, we consider the case $0in A^o$. This means, that there exists $1>varepsilon>0$ such that $(-varepsilon, varepsilon)subseteq A$. However, then we have
        $$ mu(A) = infty = nu(A) $$
        as there exists $N>1$ such that for all $ngeq N$ we have $0<frac{1}{n}<varepsilon <frac{1}{N}$ and hence
        $$ mu(A) geq mu((-varepsilon, varepsilon)) = gamma({ nin mathbb{N} : n>N })= infty. $$
        Similarly one shows that $nu(A)=infty$.



        In the second case we have that $0in (mathbb{R}setminus A)^o$. Then we have that $0notin A$ and thus, we have $mu(A)=nu(A)$ as we have by definition
        $$ nu(A) = mu(A) + gamma(Acap {0}). $$



        c.) For this we recall that the singelons are in the sigma-algebra and hence, we have ${0}in sigma(mathcal{F})$ and
        $$ nu({0})= 1 neq 0 = mu({0}).$$







        share|cite|improve this answer












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        answered yesterday









        Severin Schraven

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