When is $prod_{n=2}^{k} n-frac{1}{n}$ not an integer?











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For which values of $k$ does the following product not evaluate to an integer: $$prod_{n=2}^{k} n-frac{1}{n}$$



I find it somewhat surprising that it not only can evaluate to an integer, but also that it does so most of the time.



The only values of $k$ that I could find so far, such that it does not evaluate to an integer are $2$ and $18$. Do these numbers have any special characteristics which would explain this?










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  • Only number that it doesn't evaluate to an integer is $2$.
    – Jakobian
    2 days ago










  • My math app outputs 3379030566911999.5 for k=18 but maybe thats due to a bug.
    – g3nuine
    2 days ago















up vote
1
down vote

favorite












For which values of $k$ does the following product not evaluate to an integer: $$prod_{n=2}^{k} n-frac{1}{n}$$



I find it somewhat surprising that it not only can evaluate to an integer, but also that it does so most of the time.



The only values of $k$ that I could find so far, such that it does not evaluate to an integer are $2$ and $18$. Do these numbers have any special characteristics which would explain this?










share|cite|improve this question






















  • Only number that it doesn't evaluate to an integer is $2$.
    – Jakobian
    2 days ago










  • My math app outputs 3379030566911999.5 for k=18 but maybe thats due to a bug.
    – g3nuine
    2 days ago













up vote
1
down vote

favorite









up vote
1
down vote

favorite











For which values of $k$ does the following product not evaluate to an integer: $$prod_{n=2}^{k} n-frac{1}{n}$$



I find it somewhat surprising that it not only can evaluate to an integer, but also that it does so most of the time.



The only values of $k$ that I could find so far, such that it does not evaluate to an integer are $2$ and $18$. Do these numbers have any special characteristics which would explain this?










share|cite|improve this question













For which values of $k$ does the following product not evaluate to an integer: $$prod_{n=2}^{k} n-frac{1}{n}$$



I find it somewhat surprising that it not only can evaluate to an integer, but also that it does so most of the time.



The only values of $k$ that I could find so far, such that it does not evaluate to an integer are $2$ and $18$. Do these numbers have any special characteristics which would explain this?







integers products






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asked 2 days ago









g3nuine

1138




1138












  • Only number that it doesn't evaluate to an integer is $2$.
    – Jakobian
    2 days ago










  • My math app outputs 3379030566911999.5 for k=18 but maybe thats due to a bug.
    – g3nuine
    2 days ago


















  • Only number that it doesn't evaluate to an integer is $2$.
    – Jakobian
    2 days ago










  • My math app outputs 3379030566911999.5 for k=18 but maybe thats due to a bug.
    – g3nuine
    2 days ago
















Only number that it doesn't evaluate to an integer is $2$.
– Jakobian
2 days ago




Only number that it doesn't evaluate to an integer is $2$.
– Jakobian
2 days ago












My math app outputs 3379030566911999.5 for k=18 but maybe thats due to a bug.
– g3nuine
2 days ago




My math app outputs 3379030566911999.5 for k=18 but maybe thats due to a bug.
– g3nuine
2 days ago










2 Answers
2






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up vote
4
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accepted










$$prod_{n=2}^k frac{(n+1)(n-1)}{n} = frac{frac{(k+1)!}{2}cdot(k-1)!}{k!} = frac{(k+1)(k-1)!}{2} $$
The only number for which it can't be an integer is $k=2$, and that's indeed the case.






share|cite|improve this answer





















  • Thanks. At least now I know that I can't count on the products evaluated by my app.
    – g3nuine
    2 days ago


















up vote
1
down vote













It is surprising that this is often an integer. But because it is surprising there is probably a simple reason that will be become clear when we try a few examples.



$(2 - frac 12)(3 - frac 13) = 2*3 - frac 32 - frac 23 + frac 1{2*3}$.



Okay, one thing that becomes clear is that if we have $(n - frac 1n)(m - frac 1n)$ our terms are going to be $nm$ (which is clearly an integer) $-frac nm, -frac nm$ and $frac 1{mmn}$. When we add $-frac mn -frac nm$ we get $-(frac {m^2}{mn} + frac {n^2}{mn})=-frac {m^2 + n^2}{nm}$ and we get $mn - frac {m^2 + n^2-1}{mn}$.



Well, no reason that $mn|m^2 + n^2 -1$ but if $m$ and $n$ are consecutive, i..e. $(n = m+1)$ we get $$m(m+1) - frac {m^2 + (m+1)^2 - 1}{m(m+1)} = m(m+1) - frac {2m^2 + 2m}{m(m+1)} = m(m+1) - frac {2m(m+1)}{m(m+1)} = m(m+1) -2$$ and that.... is an integer.



So $(m - frac 1m)((m+1) - frac 1{m+1}$ must be an integer and as integers multiply together to integers we have for a product of even number of terms:



$prod_{n=2}^{2m+ 1} (n-frac 1n) = prod_{k=1}^m [(2k-frac 1{2k})((2k+1)-frac 1{2k+1})] = prod_{k=1}^m (2k(2k+1) -2)=Kin mathbb Z$.



But if we have a product of odd terms:



$prod_{n=2}^{2m+ 2}(n-frac 1n) =(prod_{n=2}^{2m+ 1}(n-frac 1n))((2m+2)-frac 1{2m+2})=K( 2m+2 - frac 1{2m+2})$ and as $( 2m+2 - frac 1{2m+2})$ is not an integer $K( 2m+2 - frac 1{2m+2})$ won't be an integer.....



.... unless $2m+2|K$.



Okay.... we are halfway done.



When will $2m+2|K$?



I'm embarrassed to admit how long the following took me to figure out but:



$K=prod_{k=1}^m(2k(2k+1) -2)$ and for $2m(2m+1) -2=2(m+1)(2m -1)$ so $2m+2$ will always divide $K$ and this will always be an integer. (Unless we only multiply one term $(2 - frac 12)$.)






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    2 Answers
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    up vote
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    $$prod_{n=2}^k frac{(n+1)(n-1)}{n} = frac{frac{(k+1)!}{2}cdot(k-1)!}{k!} = frac{(k+1)(k-1)!}{2} $$
    The only number for which it can't be an integer is $k=2$, and that's indeed the case.






    share|cite|improve this answer





















    • Thanks. At least now I know that I can't count on the products evaluated by my app.
      – g3nuine
      2 days ago















    up vote
    4
    down vote



    accepted










    $$prod_{n=2}^k frac{(n+1)(n-1)}{n} = frac{frac{(k+1)!}{2}cdot(k-1)!}{k!} = frac{(k+1)(k-1)!}{2} $$
    The only number for which it can't be an integer is $k=2$, and that's indeed the case.






    share|cite|improve this answer





















    • Thanks. At least now I know that I can't count on the products evaluated by my app.
      – g3nuine
      2 days ago













    up vote
    4
    down vote



    accepted







    up vote
    4
    down vote



    accepted






    $$prod_{n=2}^k frac{(n+1)(n-1)}{n} = frac{frac{(k+1)!}{2}cdot(k-1)!}{k!} = frac{(k+1)(k-1)!}{2} $$
    The only number for which it can't be an integer is $k=2$, and that's indeed the case.






    share|cite|improve this answer












    $$prod_{n=2}^k frac{(n+1)(n-1)}{n} = frac{frac{(k+1)!}{2}cdot(k-1)!}{k!} = frac{(k+1)(k-1)!}{2} $$
    The only number for which it can't be an integer is $k=2$, and that's indeed the case.







    share|cite|improve this answer












    share|cite|improve this answer



    share|cite|improve this answer










    answered 2 days ago









    Jakobian

    2,314620




    2,314620












    • Thanks. At least now I know that I can't count on the products evaluated by my app.
      – g3nuine
      2 days ago


















    • Thanks. At least now I know that I can't count on the products evaluated by my app.
      – g3nuine
      2 days ago
















    Thanks. At least now I know that I can't count on the products evaluated by my app.
    – g3nuine
    2 days ago




    Thanks. At least now I know that I can't count on the products evaluated by my app.
    – g3nuine
    2 days ago










    up vote
    1
    down vote













    It is surprising that this is often an integer. But because it is surprising there is probably a simple reason that will be become clear when we try a few examples.



    $(2 - frac 12)(3 - frac 13) = 2*3 - frac 32 - frac 23 + frac 1{2*3}$.



    Okay, one thing that becomes clear is that if we have $(n - frac 1n)(m - frac 1n)$ our terms are going to be $nm$ (which is clearly an integer) $-frac nm, -frac nm$ and $frac 1{mmn}$. When we add $-frac mn -frac nm$ we get $-(frac {m^2}{mn} + frac {n^2}{mn})=-frac {m^2 + n^2}{nm}$ and we get $mn - frac {m^2 + n^2-1}{mn}$.



    Well, no reason that $mn|m^2 + n^2 -1$ but if $m$ and $n$ are consecutive, i..e. $(n = m+1)$ we get $$m(m+1) - frac {m^2 + (m+1)^2 - 1}{m(m+1)} = m(m+1) - frac {2m^2 + 2m}{m(m+1)} = m(m+1) - frac {2m(m+1)}{m(m+1)} = m(m+1) -2$$ and that.... is an integer.



    So $(m - frac 1m)((m+1) - frac 1{m+1}$ must be an integer and as integers multiply together to integers we have for a product of even number of terms:



    $prod_{n=2}^{2m+ 1} (n-frac 1n) = prod_{k=1}^m [(2k-frac 1{2k})((2k+1)-frac 1{2k+1})] = prod_{k=1}^m (2k(2k+1) -2)=Kin mathbb Z$.



    But if we have a product of odd terms:



    $prod_{n=2}^{2m+ 2}(n-frac 1n) =(prod_{n=2}^{2m+ 1}(n-frac 1n))((2m+2)-frac 1{2m+2})=K( 2m+2 - frac 1{2m+2})$ and as $( 2m+2 - frac 1{2m+2})$ is not an integer $K( 2m+2 - frac 1{2m+2})$ won't be an integer.....



    .... unless $2m+2|K$.



    Okay.... we are halfway done.



    When will $2m+2|K$?



    I'm embarrassed to admit how long the following took me to figure out but:



    $K=prod_{k=1}^m(2k(2k+1) -2)$ and for $2m(2m+1) -2=2(m+1)(2m -1)$ so $2m+2$ will always divide $K$ and this will always be an integer. (Unless we only multiply one term $(2 - frac 12)$.)






    share|cite|improve this answer

























      up vote
      1
      down vote













      It is surprising that this is often an integer. But because it is surprising there is probably a simple reason that will be become clear when we try a few examples.



      $(2 - frac 12)(3 - frac 13) = 2*3 - frac 32 - frac 23 + frac 1{2*3}$.



      Okay, one thing that becomes clear is that if we have $(n - frac 1n)(m - frac 1n)$ our terms are going to be $nm$ (which is clearly an integer) $-frac nm, -frac nm$ and $frac 1{mmn}$. When we add $-frac mn -frac nm$ we get $-(frac {m^2}{mn} + frac {n^2}{mn})=-frac {m^2 + n^2}{nm}$ and we get $mn - frac {m^2 + n^2-1}{mn}$.



      Well, no reason that $mn|m^2 + n^2 -1$ but if $m$ and $n$ are consecutive, i..e. $(n = m+1)$ we get $$m(m+1) - frac {m^2 + (m+1)^2 - 1}{m(m+1)} = m(m+1) - frac {2m^2 + 2m}{m(m+1)} = m(m+1) - frac {2m(m+1)}{m(m+1)} = m(m+1) -2$$ and that.... is an integer.



      So $(m - frac 1m)((m+1) - frac 1{m+1}$ must be an integer and as integers multiply together to integers we have for a product of even number of terms:



      $prod_{n=2}^{2m+ 1} (n-frac 1n) = prod_{k=1}^m [(2k-frac 1{2k})((2k+1)-frac 1{2k+1})] = prod_{k=1}^m (2k(2k+1) -2)=Kin mathbb Z$.



      But if we have a product of odd terms:



      $prod_{n=2}^{2m+ 2}(n-frac 1n) =(prod_{n=2}^{2m+ 1}(n-frac 1n))((2m+2)-frac 1{2m+2})=K( 2m+2 - frac 1{2m+2})$ and as $( 2m+2 - frac 1{2m+2})$ is not an integer $K( 2m+2 - frac 1{2m+2})$ won't be an integer.....



      .... unless $2m+2|K$.



      Okay.... we are halfway done.



      When will $2m+2|K$?



      I'm embarrassed to admit how long the following took me to figure out but:



      $K=prod_{k=1}^m(2k(2k+1) -2)$ and for $2m(2m+1) -2=2(m+1)(2m -1)$ so $2m+2$ will always divide $K$ and this will always be an integer. (Unless we only multiply one term $(2 - frac 12)$.)






      share|cite|improve this answer























        up vote
        1
        down vote










        up vote
        1
        down vote









        It is surprising that this is often an integer. But because it is surprising there is probably a simple reason that will be become clear when we try a few examples.



        $(2 - frac 12)(3 - frac 13) = 2*3 - frac 32 - frac 23 + frac 1{2*3}$.



        Okay, one thing that becomes clear is that if we have $(n - frac 1n)(m - frac 1n)$ our terms are going to be $nm$ (which is clearly an integer) $-frac nm, -frac nm$ and $frac 1{mmn}$. When we add $-frac mn -frac nm$ we get $-(frac {m^2}{mn} + frac {n^2}{mn})=-frac {m^2 + n^2}{nm}$ and we get $mn - frac {m^2 + n^2-1}{mn}$.



        Well, no reason that $mn|m^2 + n^2 -1$ but if $m$ and $n$ are consecutive, i..e. $(n = m+1)$ we get $$m(m+1) - frac {m^2 + (m+1)^2 - 1}{m(m+1)} = m(m+1) - frac {2m^2 + 2m}{m(m+1)} = m(m+1) - frac {2m(m+1)}{m(m+1)} = m(m+1) -2$$ and that.... is an integer.



        So $(m - frac 1m)((m+1) - frac 1{m+1}$ must be an integer and as integers multiply together to integers we have for a product of even number of terms:



        $prod_{n=2}^{2m+ 1} (n-frac 1n) = prod_{k=1}^m [(2k-frac 1{2k})((2k+1)-frac 1{2k+1})] = prod_{k=1}^m (2k(2k+1) -2)=Kin mathbb Z$.



        But if we have a product of odd terms:



        $prod_{n=2}^{2m+ 2}(n-frac 1n) =(prod_{n=2}^{2m+ 1}(n-frac 1n))((2m+2)-frac 1{2m+2})=K( 2m+2 - frac 1{2m+2})$ and as $( 2m+2 - frac 1{2m+2})$ is not an integer $K( 2m+2 - frac 1{2m+2})$ won't be an integer.....



        .... unless $2m+2|K$.



        Okay.... we are halfway done.



        When will $2m+2|K$?



        I'm embarrassed to admit how long the following took me to figure out but:



        $K=prod_{k=1}^m(2k(2k+1) -2)$ and for $2m(2m+1) -2=2(m+1)(2m -1)$ so $2m+2$ will always divide $K$ and this will always be an integer. (Unless we only multiply one term $(2 - frac 12)$.)






        share|cite|improve this answer












        It is surprising that this is often an integer. But because it is surprising there is probably a simple reason that will be become clear when we try a few examples.



        $(2 - frac 12)(3 - frac 13) = 2*3 - frac 32 - frac 23 + frac 1{2*3}$.



        Okay, one thing that becomes clear is that if we have $(n - frac 1n)(m - frac 1n)$ our terms are going to be $nm$ (which is clearly an integer) $-frac nm, -frac nm$ and $frac 1{mmn}$. When we add $-frac mn -frac nm$ we get $-(frac {m^2}{mn} + frac {n^2}{mn})=-frac {m^2 + n^2}{nm}$ and we get $mn - frac {m^2 + n^2-1}{mn}$.



        Well, no reason that $mn|m^2 + n^2 -1$ but if $m$ and $n$ are consecutive, i..e. $(n = m+1)$ we get $$m(m+1) - frac {m^2 + (m+1)^2 - 1}{m(m+1)} = m(m+1) - frac {2m^2 + 2m}{m(m+1)} = m(m+1) - frac {2m(m+1)}{m(m+1)} = m(m+1) -2$$ and that.... is an integer.



        So $(m - frac 1m)((m+1) - frac 1{m+1}$ must be an integer and as integers multiply together to integers we have for a product of even number of terms:



        $prod_{n=2}^{2m+ 1} (n-frac 1n) = prod_{k=1}^m [(2k-frac 1{2k})((2k+1)-frac 1{2k+1})] = prod_{k=1}^m (2k(2k+1) -2)=Kin mathbb Z$.



        But if we have a product of odd terms:



        $prod_{n=2}^{2m+ 2}(n-frac 1n) =(prod_{n=2}^{2m+ 1}(n-frac 1n))((2m+2)-frac 1{2m+2})=K( 2m+2 - frac 1{2m+2})$ and as $( 2m+2 - frac 1{2m+2})$ is not an integer $K( 2m+2 - frac 1{2m+2})$ won't be an integer.....



        .... unless $2m+2|K$.



        Okay.... we are halfway done.



        When will $2m+2|K$?



        I'm embarrassed to admit how long the following took me to figure out but:



        $K=prod_{k=1}^m(2k(2k+1) -2)$ and for $2m(2m+1) -2=2(m+1)(2m -1)$ so $2m+2$ will always divide $K$ and this will always be an integer. (Unless we only multiply one term $(2 - frac 12)$.)







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        answered 2 days ago









        fleablood

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