Is there any known closed-form solutions to $y''yx+y'y-(y')^2x=x^3$?
up vote
2
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favorite
The title says it all...
The equation $y''yx+y'y+(y')^2x=x^3$ belongs to a known DE class (listed on EqWorld).
The equation $y''yx+y'y-(y')^2x=x^3$ appears to be way more difficult to solve...
Is the analytic solution to this equation known at all?
differential-equations closed-form
add a comment |
up vote
2
down vote
favorite
The title says it all...
The equation $y''yx+y'y+(y')^2x=x^3$ belongs to a known DE class (listed on EqWorld).
The equation $y''yx+y'y-(y')^2x=x^3$ appears to be way more difficult to solve...
Is the analytic solution to this equation known at all?
differential-equations closed-form
add a comment |
up vote
2
down vote
favorite
up vote
2
down vote
favorite
The title says it all...
The equation $y''yx+y'y+(y')^2x=x^3$ belongs to a known DE class (listed on EqWorld).
The equation $y''yx+y'y-(y')^2x=x^3$ appears to be way more difficult to solve...
Is the analytic solution to this equation known at all?
differential-equations closed-form
The title says it all...
The equation $y''yx+y'y+(y')^2x=x^3$ belongs to a known DE class (listed on EqWorld).
The equation $y''yx+y'y-(y')^2x=x^3$ appears to be way more difficult to solve...
Is the analytic solution to this equation known at all?
differential-equations closed-form
differential-equations closed-form
asked Nov 26 at 18:38
Thehx
586
586
add a comment |
add a comment |
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
up vote
2
down vote
accepted
I've solved this. There indeed is a closed-form solution that is obtained as follows:
The equation is a generalized homogeneous equation, so we start by substituting
$$x rightarrow kx, qquad y rightarrow k^my, qquad y' rightarrow k^{m-1}y', qquad y'' rightarrow k^{m-2}y''$$ and obtain $m=2$ because $x^3$ becomes $k^3x^3$ on the right side, and all summands on the left side have the common factor of $k^{2m-1}$.
Next, we substitute $x$ for $e^t$, and $y$ for $ze^{mt}$, i.e. $y=ze^{2t}$
Keeping in mind that $t_x'=frac{1}{x}=e^{-t}$ and $(e^t)_x'=1$, we write
$$
begin{equation}
y_x'=z_t'e^{2t}t_x'+2ze^{2t}t_x'=e^{2t}(z_t'+2z)e^{-t}=e^t(z_t'+2z)\
y_{xx}''=(z_t'+2z)+e^t(z_{tt}''t_x'+2z_t't_x')=z_t'+2z+z_{tt}''+2z_t'=z_{tt}''+3z_t'+2z\
ze^{3t}(z'+2z)+ze^{3t}(z''+3z'+2z)-e^{3t}(z'^2+4zz'+4z^2)=e^3t\
z(z'+2z)+z(z''+3z'+2z)-(z'^2+4zz'+4z^2)=1\
zz''-z'^2=1
end{equation}
$$
The equation $zz''-z'^2=1$ allows for order reduction by subbing $z'=p(z)$.
I'll skip the routine, and just borrow the general solution from wolfram:
$$
begin{equation}
z_1(t) = frac{1}{2} e^{-e^{c_1}t-2c_1-e^{c_1}c_2}(e^{2e^{c_1}(c_2 + t)}+e^{2c_1}) \
z_2(t) = frac{1}{2} (e^{-e^{c_1}t-2c_1-e^{c_1}c_2}+e^{e^{c_1}t+e^{c_1}c_2})
end{equation}
$$
All that is left is to perform the backward substitutions, $zrightarrow y e^{-2t}$ and $e^t rightarrow x$, to get our closed forms:
$$
begin{equation}
y(x) = frac{1}{2}( x^{2-e^{c_1}}e^{-2c_1-c_2e^{c_1}}+ x^{2+e^{c_1}}e^{c_2e^{c_1}} )\
y(x) = frac{1}{2}( x^{2+e^{c_1}}e^{-2c_1+c_2e^{c_1}}+ x^{2-e^{c_1}}e^{-c_2e^{c_1}} )
end{equation}
$$
We can rewrite it further if we want:
$$
y(x) = frac{1}{2}( x^{2pm e^{c_1}}e^{-2c_1pm c_2e^{c_1}}+ x^{2mp e^{c_1}}e^{mp c_2e^{c_1}} )
$$
There may be typos in the solution, but I've verified the obtained closed forms in Mathcad, and they indeed satisfy the initial equation.
add a comment |
up vote
0
down vote
There is no closed-form solution to the differential equation mentioned and generally not even a solution in terms of standard functions.
Sampling some initial values for $y$ and $y'$, without loss of generality, one can receive a general idea about the function $y(x)$, where it seems to exist an asymptotic "duality" between them and thus the inability of describing the solution in closed-form terms is (in an essence) derived :
$ qquad qquad qquad qquad $
The existence of a solution though, it may be simply derived by standard theorems or just in a functional analysis approach.
How does the "existence of asymptotic duality" show the inability of describing the solution in closed-form? I mean, if you consider $y=c e^x$, then it will paint you a very similar vertically-symmetric picture if you probe several c's both negative and positive with absolute values close to each other...
– Thehx
Nov 26 at 19:00
The "in an essence" was added for a reason. Sometimes graphs and qualitative data can give information or yield understanding over problems that cannot be analytically solved. The fact that a continuously defined differential equation has a non continuous graph of its first derivative for different initial values (note : the green lines), shows a non-normal behavior.
– Rebellos
Nov 26 at 19:04
Oh, did you mean, the graph shows the area between green and blue lines, that would never be filled no matter which constants we pick, and closed form solutions should not have such gaps?
– Thehx
Nov 26 at 19:09
@Thehx No. The green lines are the samples of initial values for $y'$ and the blue lines are the solution samples. Since the differential equation is continuously defined (check the ODE theorems about singularities etc) then such behavior can "warn" us for possible difficulties when trying to solve. There is no rigorous way to prove that there is no closed form solution, as this is just something we have conventionally defined for things we can express in a way we can grasp. The existence of a solution though, which is something rigorous, can be shown in many ways.
– Rebellos
Nov 26 at 19:22
And since there is no rigorous way to make a strong case about a closed form solution, computational methods and sample methods yield qualitative results that can be based upon to make assumptions and try to explain the abnormality, if any. Computational methods solve differential equations algorithmically and implementations in their algorithms determine closed form formulas, due to numerical equivalences and more cases.
– Rebellos
Nov 26 at 19:24
|
show 1 more comment
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2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
2 Answers
2
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
up vote
2
down vote
accepted
I've solved this. There indeed is a closed-form solution that is obtained as follows:
The equation is a generalized homogeneous equation, so we start by substituting
$$x rightarrow kx, qquad y rightarrow k^my, qquad y' rightarrow k^{m-1}y', qquad y'' rightarrow k^{m-2}y''$$ and obtain $m=2$ because $x^3$ becomes $k^3x^3$ on the right side, and all summands on the left side have the common factor of $k^{2m-1}$.
Next, we substitute $x$ for $e^t$, and $y$ for $ze^{mt}$, i.e. $y=ze^{2t}$
Keeping in mind that $t_x'=frac{1}{x}=e^{-t}$ and $(e^t)_x'=1$, we write
$$
begin{equation}
y_x'=z_t'e^{2t}t_x'+2ze^{2t}t_x'=e^{2t}(z_t'+2z)e^{-t}=e^t(z_t'+2z)\
y_{xx}''=(z_t'+2z)+e^t(z_{tt}''t_x'+2z_t't_x')=z_t'+2z+z_{tt}''+2z_t'=z_{tt}''+3z_t'+2z\
ze^{3t}(z'+2z)+ze^{3t}(z''+3z'+2z)-e^{3t}(z'^2+4zz'+4z^2)=e^3t\
z(z'+2z)+z(z''+3z'+2z)-(z'^2+4zz'+4z^2)=1\
zz''-z'^2=1
end{equation}
$$
The equation $zz''-z'^2=1$ allows for order reduction by subbing $z'=p(z)$.
I'll skip the routine, and just borrow the general solution from wolfram:
$$
begin{equation}
z_1(t) = frac{1}{2} e^{-e^{c_1}t-2c_1-e^{c_1}c_2}(e^{2e^{c_1}(c_2 + t)}+e^{2c_1}) \
z_2(t) = frac{1}{2} (e^{-e^{c_1}t-2c_1-e^{c_1}c_2}+e^{e^{c_1}t+e^{c_1}c_2})
end{equation}
$$
All that is left is to perform the backward substitutions, $zrightarrow y e^{-2t}$ and $e^t rightarrow x$, to get our closed forms:
$$
begin{equation}
y(x) = frac{1}{2}( x^{2-e^{c_1}}e^{-2c_1-c_2e^{c_1}}+ x^{2+e^{c_1}}e^{c_2e^{c_1}} )\
y(x) = frac{1}{2}( x^{2+e^{c_1}}e^{-2c_1+c_2e^{c_1}}+ x^{2-e^{c_1}}e^{-c_2e^{c_1}} )
end{equation}
$$
We can rewrite it further if we want:
$$
y(x) = frac{1}{2}( x^{2pm e^{c_1}}e^{-2c_1pm c_2e^{c_1}}+ x^{2mp e^{c_1}}e^{mp c_2e^{c_1}} )
$$
There may be typos in the solution, but I've verified the obtained closed forms in Mathcad, and they indeed satisfy the initial equation.
add a comment |
up vote
2
down vote
accepted
I've solved this. There indeed is a closed-form solution that is obtained as follows:
The equation is a generalized homogeneous equation, so we start by substituting
$$x rightarrow kx, qquad y rightarrow k^my, qquad y' rightarrow k^{m-1}y', qquad y'' rightarrow k^{m-2}y''$$ and obtain $m=2$ because $x^3$ becomes $k^3x^3$ on the right side, and all summands on the left side have the common factor of $k^{2m-1}$.
Next, we substitute $x$ for $e^t$, and $y$ for $ze^{mt}$, i.e. $y=ze^{2t}$
Keeping in mind that $t_x'=frac{1}{x}=e^{-t}$ and $(e^t)_x'=1$, we write
$$
begin{equation}
y_x'=z_t'e^{2t}t_x'+2ze^{2t}t_x'=e^{2t}(z_t'+2z)e^{-t}=e^t(z_t'+2z)\
y_{xx}''=(z_t'+2z)+e^t(z_{tt}''t_x'+2z_t't_x')=z_t'+2z+z_{tt}''+2z_t'=z_{tt}''+3z_t'+2z\
ze^{3t}(z'+2z)+ze^{3t}(z''+3z'+2z)-e^{3t}(z'^2+4zz'+4z^2)=e^3t\
z(z'+2z)+z(z''+3z'+2z)-(z'^2+4zz'+4z^2)=1\
zz''-z'^2=1
end{equation}
$$
The equation $zz''-z'^2=1$ allows for order reduction by subbing $z'=p(z)$.
I'll skip the routine, and just borrow the general solution from wolfram:
$$
begin{equation}
z_1(t) = frac{1}{2} e^{-e^{c_1}t-2c_1-e^{c_1}c_2}(e^{2e^{c_1}(c_2 + t)}+e^{2c_1}) \
z_2(t) = frac{1}{2} (e^{-e^{c_1}t-2c_1-e^{c_1}c_2}+e^{e^{c_1}t+e^{c_1}c_2})
end{equation}
$$
All that is left is to perform the backward substitutions, $zrightarrow y e^{-2t}$ and $e^t rightarrow x$, to get our closed forms:
$$
begin{equation}
y(x) = frac{1}{2}( x^{2-e^{c_1}}e^{-2c_1-c_2e^{c_1}}+ x^{2+e^{c_1}}e^{c_2e^{c_1}} )\
y(x) = frac{1}{2}( x^{2+e^{c_1}}e^{-2c_1+c_2e^{c_1}}+ x^{2-e^{c_1}}e^{-c_2e^{c_1}} )
end{equation}
$$
We can rewrite it further if we want:
$$
y(x) = frac{1}{2}( x^{2pm e^{c_1}}e^{-2c_1pm c_2e^{c_1}}+ x^{2mp e^{c_1}}e^{mp c_2e^{c_1}} )
$$
There may be typos in the solution, but I've verified the obtained closed forms in Mathcad, and they indeed satisfy the initial equation.
add a comment |
up vote
2
down vote
accepted
up vote
2
down vote
accepted
I've solved this. There indeed is a closed-form solution that is obtained as follows:
The equation is a generalized homogeneous equation, so we start by substituting
$$x rightarrow kx, qquad y rightarrow k^my, qquad y' rightarrow k^{m-1}y', qquad y'' rightarrow k^{m-2}y''$$ and obtain $m=2$ because $x^3$ becomes $k^3x^3$ on the right side, and all summands on the left side have the common factor of $k^{2m-1}$.
Next, we substitute $x$ for $e^t$, and $y$ for $ze^{mt}$, i.e. $y=ze^{2t}$
Keeping in mind that $t_x'=frac{1}{x}=e^{-t}$ and $(e^t)_x'=1$, we write
$$
begin{equation}
y_x'=z_t'e^{2t}t_x'+2ze^{2t}t_x'=e^{2t}(z_t'+2z)e^{-t}=e^t(z_t'+2z)\
y_{xx}''=(z_t'+2z)+e^t(z_{tt}''t_x'+2z_t't_x')=z_t'+2z+z_{tt}''+2z_t'=z_{tt}''+3z_t'+2z\
ze^{3t}(z'+2z)+ze^{3t}(z''+3z'+2z)-e^{3t}(z'^2+4zz'+4z^2)=e^3t\
z(z'+2z)+z(z''+3z'+2z)-(z'^2+4zz'+4z^2)=1\
zz''-z'^2=1
end{equation}
$$
The equation $zz''-z'^2=1$ allows for order reduction by subbing $z'=p(z)$.
I'll skip the routine, and just borrow the general solution from wolfram:
$$
begin{equation}
z_1(t) = frac{1}{2} e^{-e^{c_1}t-2c_1-e^{c_1}c_2}(e^{2e^{c_1}(c_2 + t)}+e^{2c_1}) \
z_2(t) = frac{1}{2} (e^{-e^{c_1}t-2c_1-e^{c_1}c_2}+e^{e^{c_1}t+e^{c_1}c_2})
end{equation}
$$
All that is left is to perform the backward substitutions, $zrightarrow y e^{-2t}$ and $e^t rightarrow x$, to get our closed forms:
$$
begin{equation}
y(x) = frac{1}{2}( x^{2-e^{c_1}}e^{-2c_1-c_2e^{c_1}}+ x^{2+e^{c_1}}e^{c_2e^{c_1}} )\
y(x) = frac{1}{2}( x^{2+e^{c_1}}e^{-2c_1+c_2e^{c_1}}+ x^{2-e^{c_1}}e^{-c_2e^{c_1}} )
end{equation}
$$
We can rewrite it further if we want:
$$
y(x) = frac{1}{2}( x^{2pm e^{c_1}}e^{-2c_1pm c_2e^{c_1}}+ x^{2mp e^{c_1}}e^{mp c_2e^{c_1}} )
$$
There may be typos in the solution, but I've verified the obtained closed forms in Mathcad, and they indeed satisfy the initial equation.
I've solved this. There indeed is a closed-form solution that is obtained as follows:
The equation is a generalized homogeneous equation, so we start by substituting
$$x rightarrow kx, qquad y rightarrow k^my, qquad y' rightarrow k^{m-1}y', qquad y'' rightarrow k^{m-2}y''$$ and obtain $m=2$ because $x^3$ becomes $k^3x^3$ on the right side, and all summands on the left side have the common factor of $k^{2m-1}$.
Next, we substitute $x$ for $e^t$, and $y$ for $ze^{mt}$, i.e. $y=ze^{2t}$
Keeping in mind that $t_x'=frac{1}{x}=e^{-t}$ and $(e^t)_x'=1$, we write
$$
begin{equation}
y_x'=z_t'e^{2t}t_x'+2ze^{2t}t_x'=e^{2t}(z_t'+2z)e^{-t}=e^t(z_t'+2z)\
y_{xx}''=(z_t'+2z)+e^t(z_{tt}''t_x'+2z_t't_x')=z_t'+2z+z_{tt}''+2z_t'=z_{tt}''+3z_t'+2z\
ze^{3t}(z'+2z)+ze^{3t}(z''+3z'+2z)-e^{3t}(z'^2+4zz'+4z^2)=e^3t\
z(z'+2z)+z(z''+3z'+2z)-(z'^2+4zz'+4z^2)=1\
zz''-z'^2=1
end{equation}
$$
The equation $zz''-z'^2=1$ allows for order reduction by subbing $z'=p(z)$.
I'll skip the routine, and just borrow the general solution from wolfram:
$$
begin{equation}
z_1(t) = frac{1}{2} e^{-e^{c_1}t-2c_1-e^{c_1}c_2}(e^{2e^{c_1}(c_2 + t)}+e^{2c_1}) \
z_2(t) = frac{1}{2} (e^{-e^{c_1}t-2c_1-e^{c_1}c_2}+e^{e^{c_1}t+e^{c_1}c_2})
end{equation}
$$
All that is left is to perform the backward substitutions, $zrightarrow y e^{-2t}$ and $e^t rightarrow x$, to get our closed forms:
$$
begin{equation}
y(x) = frac{1}{2}( x^{2-e^{c_1}}e^{-2c_1-c_2e^{c_1}}+ x^{2+e^{c_1}}e^{c_2e^{c_1}} )\
y(x) = frac{1}{2}( x^{2+e^{c_1}}e^{-2c_1+c_2e^{c_1}}+ x^{2-e^{c_1}}e^{-c_2e^{c_1}} )
end{equation}
$$
We can rewrite it further if we want:
$$
y(x) = frac{1}{2}( x^{2pm e^{c_1}}e^{-2c_1pm c_2e^{c_1}}+ x^{2mp e^{c_1}}e^{mp c_2e^{c_1}} )
$$
There may be typos in the solution, but I've verified the obtained closed forms in Mathcad, and they indeed satisfy the initial equation.
answered Nov 27 at 0:24
Thehx
586
586
add a comment |
add a comment |
up vote
0
down vote
There is no closed-form solution to the differential equation mentioned and generally not even a solution in terms of standard functions.
Sampling some initial values for $y$ and $y'$, without loss of generality, one can receive a general idea about the function $y(x)$, where it seems to exist an asymptotic "duality" between them and thus the inability of describing the solution in closed-form terms is (in an essence) derived :
$ qquad qquad qquad qquad $
The existence of a solution though, it may be simply derived by standard theorems or just in a functional analysis approach.
How does the "existence of asymptotic duality" show the inability of describing the solution in closed-form? I mean, if you consider $y=c e^x$, then it will paint you a very similar vertically-symmetric picture if you probe several c's both negative and positive with absolute values close to each other...
– Thehx
Nov 26 at 19:00
The "in an essence" was added for a reason. Sometimes graphs and qualitative data can give information or yield understanding over problems that cannot be analytically solved. The fact that a continuously defined differential equation has a non continuous graph of its first derivative for different initial values (note : the green lines), shows a non-normal behavior.
– Rebellos
Nov 26 at 19:04
Oh, did you mean, the graph shows the area between green and blue lines, that would never be filled no matter which constants we pick, and closed form solutions should not have such gaps?
– Thehx
Nov 26 at 19:09
@Thehx No. The green lines are the samples of initial values for $y'$ and the blue lines are the solution samples. Since the differential equation is continuously defined (check the ODE theorems about singularities etc) then such behavior can "warn" us for possible difficulties when trying to solve. There is no rigorous way to prove that there is no closed form solution, as this is just something we have conventionally defined for things we can express in a way we can grasp. The existence of a solution though, which is something rigorous, can be shown in many ways.
– Rebellos
Nov 26 at 19:22
And since there is no rigorous way to make a strong case about a closed form solution, computational methods and sample methods yield qualitative results that can be based upon to make assumptions and try to explain the abnormality, if any. Computational methods solve differential equations algorithmically and implementations in their algorithms determine closed form formulas, due to numerical equivalences and more cases.
– Rebellos
Nov 26 at 19:24
|
show 1 more comment
up vote
0
down vote
There is no closed-form solution to the differential equation mentioned and generally not even a solution in terms of standard functions.
Sampling some initial values for $y$ and $y'$, without loss of generality, one can receive a general idea about the function $y(x)$, where it seems to exist an asymptotic "duality" between them and thus the inability of describing the solution in closed-form terms is (in an essence) derived :
$ qquad qquad qquad qquad $
The existence of a solution though, it may be simply derived by standard theorems or just in a functional analysis approach.
How does the "existence of asymptotic duality" show the inability of describing the solution in closed-form? I mean, if you consider $y=c e^x$, then it will paint you a very similar vertically-symmetric picture if you probe several c's both negative and positive with absolute values close to each other...
– Thehx
Nov 26 at 19:00
The "in an essence" was added for a reason. Sometimes graphs and qualitative data can give information or yield understanding over problems that cannot be analytically solved. The fact that a continuously defined differential equation has a non continuous graph of its first derivative for different initial values (note : the green lines), shows a non-normal behavior.
– Rebellos
Nov 26 at 19:04
Oh, did you mean, the graph shows the area between green and blue lines, that would never be filled no matter which constants we pick, and closed form solutions should not have such gaps?
– Thehx
Nov 26 at 19:09
@Thehx No. The green lines are the samples of initial values for $y'$ and the blue lines are the solution samples. Since the differential equation is continuously defined (check the ODE theorems about singularities etc) then such behavior can "warn" us for possible difficulties when trying to solve. There is no rigorous way to prove that there is no closed form solution, as this is just something we have conventionally defined for things we can express in a way we can grasp. The existence of a solution though, which is something rigorous, can be shown in many ways.
– Rebellos
Nov 26 at 19:22
And since there is no rigorous way to make a strong case about a closed form solution, computational methods and sample methods yield qualitative results that can be based upon to make assumptions and try to explain the abnormality, if any. Computational methods solve differential equations algorithmically and implementations in their algorithms determine closed form formulas, due to numerical equivalences and more cases.
– Rebellos
Nov 26 at 19:24
|
show 1 more comment
up vote
0
down vote
up vote
0
down vote
There is no closed-form solution to the differential equation mentioned and generally not even a solution in terms of standard functions.
Sampling some initial values for $y$ and $y'$, without loss of generality, one can receive a general idea about the function $y(x)$, where it seems to exist an asymptotic "duality" between them and thus the inability of describing the solution in closed-form terms is (in an essence) derived :
$ qquad qquad qquad qquad $
The existence of a solution though, it may be simply derived by standard theorems or just in a functional analysis approach.
There is no closed-form solution to the differential equation mentioned and generally not even a solution in terms of standard functions.
Sampling some initial values for $y$ and $y'$, without loss of generality, one can receive a general idea about the function $y(x)$, where it seems to exist an asymptotic "duality" between them and thus the inability of describing the solution in closed-form terms is (in an essence) derived :
$ qquad qquad qquad qquad $
The existence of a solution though, it may be simply derived by standard theorems or just in a functional analysis approach.
answered Nov 26 at 18:47
Rebellos
13.7k31243
13.7k31243
How does the "existence of asymptotic duality" show the inability of describing the solution in closed-form? I mean, if you consider $y=c e^x$, then it will paint you a very similar vertically-symmetric picture if you probe several c's both negative and positive with absolute values close to each other...
– Thehx
Nov 26 at 19:00
The "in an essence" was added for a reason. Sometimes graphs and qualitative data can give information or yield understanding over problems that cannot be analytically solved. The fact that a continuously defined differential equation has a non continuous graph of its first derivative for different initial values (note : the green lines), shows a non-normal behavior.
– Rebellos
Nov 26 at 19:04
Oh, did you mean, the graph shows the area between green and blue lines, that would never be filled no matter which constants we pick, and closed form solutions should not have such gaps?
– Thehx
Nov 26 at 19:09
@Thehx No. The green lines are the samples of initial values for $y'$ and the blue lines are the solution samples. Since the differential equation is continuously defined (check the ODE theorems about singularities etc) then such behavior can "warn" us for possible difficulties when trying to solve. There is no rigorous way to prove that there is no closed form solution, as this is just something we have conventionally defined for things we can express in a way we can grasp. The existence of a solution though, which is something rigorous, can be shown in many ways.
– Rebellos
Nov 26 at 19:22
And since there is no rigorous way to make a strong case about a closed form solution, computational methods and sample methods yield qualitative results that can be based upon to make assumptions and try to explain the abnormality, if any. Computational methods solve differential equations algorithmically and implementations in their algorithms determine closed form formulas, due to numerical equivalences and more cases.
– Rebellos
Nov 26 at 19:24
|
show 1 more comment
How does the "existence of asymptotic duality" show the inability of describing the solution in closed-form? I mean, if you consider $y=c e^x$, then it will paint you a very similar vertically-symmetric picture if you probe several c's both negative and positive with absolute values close to each other...
– Thehx
Nov 26 at 19:00
The "in an essence" was added for a reason. Sometimes graphs and qualitative data can give information or yield understanding over problems that cannot be analytically solved. The fact that a continuously defined differential equation has a non continuous graph of its first derivative for different initial values (note : the green lines), shows a non-normal behavior.
– Rebellos
Nov 26 at 19:04
Oh, did you mean, the graph shows the area between green and blue lines, that would never be filled no matter which constants we pick, and closed form solutions should not have such gaps?
– Thehx
Nov 26 at 19:09
@Thehx No. The green lines are the samples of initial values for $y'$ and the blue lines are the solution samples. Since the differential equation is continuously defined (check the ODE theorems about singularities etc) then such behavior can "warn" us for possible difficulties when trying to solve. There is no rigorous way to prove that there is no closed form solution, as this is just something we have conventionally defined for things we can express in a way we can grasp. The existence of a solution though, which is something rigorous, can be shown in many ways.
– Rebellos
Nov 26 at 19:22
And since there is no rigorous way to make a strong case about a closed form solution, computational methods and sample methods yield qualitative results that can be based upon to make assumptions and try to explain the abnormality, if any. Computational methods solve differential equations algorithmically and implementations in their algorithms determine closed form formulas, due to numerical equivalences and more cases.
– Rebellos
Nov 26 at 19:24
How does the "existence of asymptotic duality" show the inability of describing the solution in closed-form? I mean, if you consider $y=c e^x$, then it will paint you a very similar vertically-symmetric picture if you probe several c's both negative and positive with absolute values close to each other...
– Thehx
Nov 26 at 19:00
How does the "existence of asymptotic duality" show the inability of describing the solution in closed-form? I mean, if you consider $y=c e^x$, then it will paint you a very similar vertically-symmetric picture if you probe several c's both negative and positive with absolute values close to each other...
– Thehx
Nov 26 at 19:00
The "in an essence" was added for a reason. Sometimes graphs and qualitative data can give information or yield understanding over problems that cannot be analytically solved. The fact that a continuously defined differential equation has a non continuous graph of its first derivative for different initial values (note : the green lines), shows a non-normal behavior.
– Rebellos
Nov 26 at 19:04
The "in an essence" was added for a reason. Sometimes graphs and qualitative data can give information or yield understanding over problems that cannot be analytically solved. The fact that a continuously defined differential equation has a non continuous graph of its first derivative for different initial values (note : the green lines), shows a non-normal behavior.
– Rebellos
Nov 26 at 19:04
Oh, did you mean, the graph shows the area between green and blue lines, that would never be filled no matter which constants we pick, and closed form solutions should not have such gaps?
– Thehx
Nov 26 at 19:09
Oh, did you mean, the graph shows the area between green and blue lines, that would never be filled no matter which constants we pick, and closed form solutions should not have such gaps?
– Thehx
Nov 26 at 19:09
@Thehx No. The green lines are the samples of initial values for $y'$ and the blue lines are the solution samples. Since the differential equation is continuously defined (check the ODE theorems about singularities etc) then such behavior can "warn" us for possible difficulties when trying to solve. There is no rigorous way to prove that there is no closed form solution, as this is just something we have conventionally defined for things we can express in a way we can grasp. The existence of a solution though, which is something rigorous, can be shown in many ways.
– Rebellos
Nov 26 at 19:22
@Thehx No. The green lines are the samples of initial values for $y'$ and the blue lines are the solution samples. Since the differential equation is continuously defined (check the ODE theorems about singularities etc) then such behavior can "warn" us for possible difficulties when trying to solve. There is no rigorous way to prove that there is no closed form solution, as this is just something we have conventionally defined for things we can express in a way we can grasp. The existence of a solution though, which is something rigorous, can be shown in many ways.
– Rebellos
Nov 26 at 19:22
And since there is no rigorous way to make a strong case about a closed form solution, computational methods and sample methods yield qualitative results that can be based upon to make assumptions and try to explain the abnormality, if any. Computational methods solve differential equations algorithmically and implementations in their algorithms determine closed form formulas, due to numerical equivalences and more cases.
– Rebellos
Nov 26 at 19:24
And since there is no rigorous way to make a strong case about a closed form solution, computational methods and sample methods yield qualitative results that can be based upon to make assumptions and try to explain the abnormality, if any. Computational methods solve differential equations algorithmically and implementations in their algorithms determine closed form formulas, due to numerical equivalences and more cases.
– Rebellos
Nov 26 at 19:24
|
show 1 more comment
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