Parameterized derivative











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I have 3 data points: $(x_1,y_1), (x_2,y_2), (x_3,y_3)$



$x_1,x_2,x_3$ are fixed values.
$y_1,y_2,y_3$ are all separate functions of a third variable, $t$



So:
$y_1=f_1(x,t)$
$y_2=f_2(x,t)$
$y_3=f_3(x,t)$



At any given $t$, I can fit a curve through these three data points (spline, Bezier or whatever):
$y=f(x)$, so $y$ and $frac{dy}{dx}$ can be calculated for any $x$.



What is $frac{dy}{dt}$ at any value of $x$?










share|cite|improve this question
























  • You don't have enough information, or your problem does not clearly states what you know. What's missing is what's the relationship between $x$ and $f_i$ and $t$.
    – Andrei
    Nov 25 at 17:17










  • $x$ is not a function of $t$, it is an independent variable.
    – dacfer
    Nov 25 at 17:24










  • Do you know the functions $f_i$? Say $f_i(t)=t^i$. What is supposed to be $y$ in between? Where does this problem comes from?
    – Andrei
    Nov 25 at 17:32










  • I do know the functions $f_i$. $y$ in between is calculated from the spline curve fit. The problem is a curve fit of a 2d graph. That works, now I need the derivatives.
    – dacfer
    Nov 25 at 17:35












  • @Andrei thanks... a reply to my response above would have been more helpful
    – dacfer
    Nov 27 at 14:59















up vote
-1
down vote

favorite












I have 3 data points: $(x_1,y_1), (x_2,y_2), (x_3,y_3)$



$x_1,x_2,x_3$ are fixed values.
$y_1,y_2,y_3$ are all separate functions of a third variable, $t$



So:
$y_1=f_1(x,t)$
$y_2=f_2(x,t)$
$y_3=f_3(x,t)$



At any given $t$, I can fit a curve through these three data points (spline, Bezier or whatever):
$y=f(x)$, so $y$ and $frac{dy}{dx}$ can be calculated for any $x$.



What is $frac{dy}{dt}$ at any value of $x$?










share|cite|improve this question
























  • You don't have enough information, or your problem does not clearly states what you know. What's missing is what's the relationship between $x$ and $f_i$ and $t$.
    – Andrei
    Nov 25 at 17:17










  • $x$ is not a function of $t$, it is an independent variable.
    – dacfer
    Nov 25 at 17:24










  • Do you know the functions $f_i$? Say $f_i(t)=t^i$. What is supposed to be $y$ in between? Where does this problem comes from?
    – Andrei
    Nov 25 at 17:32










  • I do know the functions $f_i$. $y$ in between is calculated from the spline curve fit. The problem is a curve fit of a 2d graph. That works, now I need the derivatives.
    – dacfer
    Nov 25 at 17:35












  • @Andrei thanks... a reply to my response above would have been more helpful
    – dacfer
    Nov 27 at 14:59













up vote
-1
down vote

favorite









up vote
-1
down vote

favorite











I have 3 data points: $(x_1,y_1), (x_2,y_2), (x_3,y_3)$



$x_1,x_2,x_3$ are fixed values.
$y_1,y_2,y_3$ are all separate functions of a third variable, $t$



So:
$y_1=f_1(x,t)$
$y_2=f_2(x,t)$
$y_3=f_3(x,t)$



At any given $t$, I can fit a curve through these three data points (spline, Bezier or whatever):
$y=f(x)$, so $y$ and $frac{dy}{dx}$ can be calculated for any $x$.



What is $frac{dy}{dt}$ at any value of $x$?










share|cite|improve this question















I have 3 data points: $(x_1,y_1), (x_2,y_2), (x_3,y_3)$



$x_1,x_2,x_3$ are fixed values.
$y_1,y_2,y_3$ are all separate functions of a third variable, $t$



So:
$y_1=f_1(x,t)$
$y_2=f_2(x,t)$
$y_3=f_3(x,t)$



At any given $t$, I can fit a curve through these three data points (spline, Bezier or whatever):
$y=f(x)$, so $y$ and $frac{dy}{dx}$ can be calculated for any $x$.



What is $frac{dy}{dt}$ at any value of $x$?







derivatives






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share|cite|improve this question













share|cite|improve this question




share|cite|improve this question








edited Nov 27 at 0:30

























asked Nov 25 at 16:47









dacfer

739




739












  • You don't have enough information, or your problem does not clearly states what you know. What's missing is what's the relationship between $x$ and $f_i$ and $t$.
    – Andrei
    Nov 25 at 17:17










  • $x$ is not a function of $t$, it is an independent variable.
    – dacfer
    Nov 25 at 17:24










  • Do you know the functions $f_i$? Say $f_i(t)=t^i$. What is supposed to be $y$ in between? Where does this problem comes from?
    – Andrei
    Nov 25 at 17:32










  • I do know the functions $f_i$. $y$ in between is calculated from the spline curve fit. The problem is a curve fit of a 2d graph. That works, now I need the derivatives.
    – dacfer
    Nov 25 at 17:35












  • @Andrei thanks... a reply to my response above would have been more helpful
    – dacfer
    Nov 27 at 14:59


















  • You don't have enough information, or your problem does not clearly states what you know. What's missing is what's the relationship between $x$ and $f_i$ and $t$.
    – Andrei
    Nov 25 at 17:17










  • $x$ is not a function of $t$, it is an independent variable.
    – dacfer
    Nov 25 at 17:24










  • Do you know the functions $f_i$? Say $f_i(t)=t^i$. What is supposed to be $y$ in between? Where does this problem comes from?
    – Andrei
    Nov 25 at 17:32










  • I do know the functions $f_i$. $y$ in between is calculated from the spline curve fit. The problem is a curve fit of a 2d graph. That works, now I need the derivatives.
    – dacfer
    Nov 25 at 17:35












  • @Andrei thanks... a reply to my response above would have been more helpful
    – dacfer
    Nov 27 at 14:59
















You don't have enough information, or your problem does not clearly states what you know. What's missing is what's the relationship between $x$ and $f_i$ and $t$.
– Andrei
Nov 25 at 17:17




You don't have enough information, or your problem does not clearly states what you know. What's missing is what's the relationship between $x$ and $f_i$ and $t$.
– Andrei
Nov 25 at 17:17












$x$ is not a function of $t$, it is an independent variable.
– dacfer
Nov 25 at 17:24




$x$ is not a function of $t$, it is an independent variable.
– dacfer
Nov 25 at 17:24












Do you know the functions $f_i$? Say $f_i(t)=t^i$. What is supposed to be $y$ in between? Where does this problem comes from?
– Andrei
Nov 25 at 17:32




Do you know the functions $f_i$? Say $f_i(t)=t^i$. What is supposed to be $y$ in between? Where does this problem comes from?
– Andrei
Nov 25 at 17:32












I do know the functions $f_i$. $y$ in between is calculated from the spline curve fit. The problem is a curve fit of a 2d graph. That works, now I need the derivatives.
– dacfer
Nov 25 at 17:35






I do know the functions $f_i$. $y$ in between is calculated from the spline curve fit. The problem is a curve fit of a 2d graph. That works, now I need the derivatives.
– dacfer
Nov 25 at 17:35














@Andrei thanks... a reply to my response above would have been more helpful
– dacfer
Nov 27 at 14:59




@Andrei thanks... a reply to my response above would have been more helpful
– dacfer
Nov 27 at 14:59










1 Answer
1






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up vote
1
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The simplest way to fit the data through 3 points is to draw a quadratic $$y=ax^2+bx+c$$
In this case, $a$, $b$, and $c$ are also depending on a parameter $t$:
$$y(x,t)=a(t)x^2+b(t)x+c$$
You are not given $a(t)$, $b(t)$, and $c(t)$ directly, so you need to calculate them. What you have is a system of equations:
$$begin{cases}ax_1^2+bx_1+c=y_1=f_1(t)\ax_2^2+bx_2+c=y_1=f_2(t)\ax_3^2+bx_3+c=y_3=f_3(t)end{cases}$$
You can solve this in terms of unknowns $a$, $b$, $c$ using determinants:
$$a(t)=frac{begin{vmatrix}
f_1(t) & x_1 & 1 \
f_2(t) & x_2 & 1 \
f_3(t) & x_3 & 1
end{vmatrix}}{begin{vmatrix}
x_1^2 & x_1 & 1 \
x_2^2 & x_2 & 1 \
x_3^2 & x_3 & 1
end{vmatrix}}=frac{f_1(t)begin{vmatrix}
x_2 & 1 \
x_3 & 1
end{vmatrix}-f_2(t)begin{vmatrix}
x_1 & 1 \
x_3 & 1
end{vmatrix}+f_3(t)begin{vmatrix}
x_1 & 1 \
x_32 & 1
end{vmatrix}}{begin{vmatrix}
x_1^2 & x_1 & 1 \
x_2^2 & x_2 & 1 \
x_3^2 & x_3 & 1
end{vmatrix}}$$

You get a similar expression for $b(t)$ and $c(t)$.
Taking derivative with respect to time should be easy now:
$$frac{dy}{dt}=frac{da(t)}{dt}x^2+frac{db(t)}{dt}x+frac{dc(t)}{dt}$$






share|cite|improve this answer





















  • Thanks yes this is a solution. Actually I made an error in simplifying my real world problem. Actually $x$ is a function of $t$, $y$ is not. In the end I formed a 2-d spline and then used the chain rule to get $cfrac{dy}{dt}=frac{frac{dy}{dx}}{frac{dx}{dt}}$
    – dacfer
    Nov 29 at 20:55











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1 Answer
1






active

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1 Answer
1






active

oldest

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active

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active

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up vote
1
down vote













The simplest way to fit the data through 3 points is to draw a quadratic $$y=ax^2+bx+c$$
In this case, $a$, $b$, and $c$ are also depending on a parameter $t$:
$$y(x,t)=a(t)x^2+b(t)x+c$$
You are not given $a(t)$, $b(t)$, and $c(t)$ directly, so you need to calculate them. What you have is a system of equations:
$$begin{cases}ax_1^2+bx_1+c=y_1=f_1(t)\ax_2^2+bx_2+c=y_1=f_2(t)\ax_3^2+bx_3+c=y_3=f_3(t)end{cases}$$
You can solve this in terms of unknowns $a$, $b$, $c$ using determinants:
$$a(t)=frac{begin{vmatrix}
f_1(t) & x_1 & 1 \
f_2(t) & x_2 & 1 \
f_3(t) & x_3 & 1
end{vmatrix}}{begin{vmatrix}
x_1^2 & x_1 & 1 \
x_2^2 & x_2 & 1 \
x_3^2 & x_3 & 1
end{vmatrix}}=frac{f_1(t)begin{vmatrix}
x_2 & 1 \
x_3 & 1
end{vmatrix}-f_2(t)begin{vmatrix}
x_1 & 1 \
x_3 & 1
end{vmatrix}+f_3(t)begin{vmatrix}
x_1 & 1 \
x_32 & 1
end{vmatrix}}{begin{vmatrix}
x_1^2 & x_1 & 1 \
x_2^2 & x_2 & 1 \
x_3^2 & x_3 & 1
end{vmatrix}}$$

You get a similar expression for $b(t)$ and $c(t)$.
Taking derivative with respect to time should be easy now:
$$frac{dy}{dt}=frac{da(t)}{dt}x^2+frac{db(t)}{dt}x+frac{dc(t)}{dt}$$






share|cite|improve this answer





















  • Thanks yes this is a solution. Actually I made an error in simplifying my real world problem. Actually $x$ is a function of $t$, $y$ is not. In the end I formed a 2-d spline and then used the chain rule to get $cfrac{dy}{dt}=frac{frac{dy}{dx}}{frac{dx}{dt}}$
    – dacfer
    Nov 29 at 20:55















up vote
1
down vote













The simplest way to fit the data through 3 points is to draw a quadratic $$y=ax^2+bx+c$$
In this case, $a$, $b$, and $c$ are also depending on a parameter $t$:
$$y(x,t)=a(t)x^2+b(t)x+c$$
You are not given $a(t)$, $b(t)$, and $c(t)$ directly, so you need to calculate them. What you have is a system of equations:
$$begin{cases}ax_1^2+bx_1+c=y_1=f_1(t)\ax_2^2+bx_2+c=y_1=f_2(t)\ax_3^2+bx_3+c=y_3=f_3(t)end{cases}$$
You can solve this in terms of unknowns $a$, $b$, $c$ using determinants:
$$a(t)=frac{begin{vmatrix}
f_1(t) & x_1 & 1 \
f_2(t) & x_2 & 1 \
f_3(t) & x_3 & 1
end{vmatrix}}{begin{vmatrix}
x_1^2 & x_1 & 1 \
x_2^2 & x_2 & 1 \
x_3^2 & x_3 & 1
end{vmatrix}}=frac{f_1(t)begin{vmatrix}
x_2 & 1 \
x_3 & 1
end{vmatrix}-f_2(t)begin{vmatrix}
x_1 & 1 \
x_3 & 1
end{vmatrix}+f_3(t)begin{vmatrix}
x_1 & 1 \
x_32 & 1
end{vmatrix}}{begin{vmatrix}
x_1^2 & x_1 & 1 \
x_2^2 & x_2 & 1 \
x_3^2 & x_3 & 1
end{vmatrix}}$$

You get a similar expression for $b(t)$ and $c(t)$.
Taking derivative with respect to time should be easy now:
$$frac{dy}{dt}=frac{da(t)}{dt}x^2+frac{db(t)}{dt}x+frac{dc(t)}{dt}$$






share|cite|improve this answer





















  • Thanks yes this is a solution. Actually I made an error in simplifying my real world problem. Actually $x$ is a function of $t$, $y$ is not. In the end I formed a 2-d spline and then used the chain rule to get $cfrac{dy}{dt}=frac{frac{dy}{dx}}{frac{dx}{dt}}$
    – dacfer
    Nov 29 at 20:55













up vote
1
down vote










up vote
1
down vote









The simplest way to fit the data through 3 points is to draw a quadratic $$y=ax^2+bx+c$$
In this case, $a$, $b$, and $c$ are also depending on a parameter $t$:
$$y(x,t)=a(t)x^2+b(t)x+c$$
You are not given $a(t)$, $b(t)$, and $c(t)$ directly, so you need to calculate them. What you have is a system of equations:
$$begin{cases}ax_1^2+bx_1+c=y_1=f_1(t)\ax_2^2+bx_2+c=y_1=f_2(t)\ax_3^2+bx_3+c=y_3=f_3(t)end{cases}$$
You can solve this in terms of unknowns $a$, $b$, $c$ using determinants:
$$a(t)=frac{begin{vmatrix}
f_1(t) & x_1 & 1 \
f_2(t) & x_2 & 1 \
f_3(t) & x_3 & 1
end{vmatrix}}{begin{vmatrix}
x_1^2 & x_1 & 1 \
x_2^2 & x_2 & 1 \
x_3^2 & x_3 & 1
end{vmatrix}}=frac{f_1(t)begin{vmatrix}
x_2 & 1 \
x_3 & 1
end{vmatrix}-f_2(t)begin{vmatrix}
x_1 & 1 \
x_3 & 1
end{vmatrix}+f_3(t)begin{vmatrix}
x_1 & 1 \
x_32 & 1
end{vmatrix}}{begin{vmatrix}
x_1^2 & x_1 & 1 \
x_2^2 & x_2 & 1 \
x_3^2 & x_3 & 1
end{vmatrix}}$$

You get a similar expression for $b(t)$ and $c(t)$.
Taking derivative with respect to time should be easy now:
$$frac{dy}{dt}=frac{da(t)}{dt}x^2+frac{db(t)}{dt}x+frac{dc(t)}{dt}$$






share|cite|improve this answer












The simplest way to fit the data through 3 points is to draw a quadratic $$y=ax^2+bx+c$$
In this case, $a$, $b$, and $c$ are also depending on a parameter $t$:
$$y(x,t)=a(t)x^2+b(t)x+c$$
You are not given $a(t)$, $b(t)$, and $c(t)$ directly, so you need to calculate them. What you have is a system of equations:
$$begin{cases}ax_1^2+bx_1+c=y_1=f_1(t)\ax_2^2+bx_2+c=y_1=f_2(t)\ax_3^2+bx_3+c=y_3=f_3(t)end{cases}$$
You can solve this in terms of unknowns $a$, $b$, $c$ using determinants:
$$a(t)=frac{begin{vmatrix}
f_1(t) & x_1 & 1 \
f_2(t) & x_2 & 1 \
f_3(t) & x_3 & 1
end{vmatrix}}{begin{vmatrix}
x_1^2 & x_1 & 1 \
x_2^2 & x_2 & 1 \
x_3^2 & x_3 & 1
end{vmatrix}}=frac{f_1(t)begin{vmatrix}
x_2 & 1 \
x_3 & 1
end{vmatrix}-f_2(t)begin{vmatrix}
x_1 & 1 \
x_3 & 1
end{vmatrix}+f_3(t)begin{vmatrix}
x_1 & 1 \
x_32 & 1
end{vmatrix}}{begin{vmatrix}
x_1^2 & x_1 & 1 \
x_2^2 & x_2 & 1 \
x_3^2 & x_3 & 1
end{vmatrix}}$$

You get a similar expression for $b(t)$ and $c(t)$.
Taking derivative with respect to time should be easy now:
$$frac{dy}{dt}=frac{da(t)}{dt}x^2+frac{db(t)}{dt}x+frac{dc(t)}{dt}$$







share|cite|improve this answer












share|cite|improve this answer



share|cite|improve this answer










answered Nov 27 at 15:56









Andrei

10.6k21025




10.6k21025












  • Thanks yes this is a solution. Actually I made an error in simplifying my real world problem. Actually $x$ is a function of $t$, $y$ is not. In the end I formed a 2-d spline and then used the chain rule to get $cfrac{dy}{dt}=frac{frac{dy}{dx}}{frac{dx}{dt}}$
    – dacfer
    Nov 29 at 20:55


















  • Thanks yes this is a solution. Actually I made an error in simplifying my real world problem. Actually $x$ is a function of $t$, $y$ is not. In the end I formed a 2-d spline and then used the chain rule to get $cfrac{dy}{dt}=frac{frac{dy}{dx}}{frac{dx}{dt}}$
    – dacfer
    Nov 29 at 20:55
















Thanks yes this is a solution. Actually I made an error in simplifying my real world problem. Actually $x$ is a function of $t$, $y$ is not. In the end I formed a 2-d spline and then used the chain rule to get $cfrac{dy}{dt}=frac{frac{dy}{dx}}{frac{dx}{dt}}$
– dacfer
Nov 29 at 20:55




Thanks yes this is a solution. Actually I made an error in simplifying my real world problem. Actually $x$ is a function of $t$, $y$ is not. In the end I formed a 2-d spline and then used the chain rule to get $cfrac{dy}{dt}=frac{frac{dy}{dx}}{frac{dx}{dt}}$
– dacfer
Nov 29 at 20:55


















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