Adequacy of DNA evidence — how can I improve it?












3















Individuals H and J are 2nd cousins (supported by a strong documentation trail) who share two ancestors: John Charles Wright (circa 1830-1904) and Caroline Ellen Brown (circa 1827 – 1871). They share 223cm of DNA which is comfortably within the range of 2nd cousins (DNAPainter).



H and J have a common match (on Ancestry) D who descends from Henry Dillistone Brown born 15 May 1852 in Sawbridgeworth, Hertfordshire, illegitimate son of Caroline Ellen Augusta Brown (also supported by a strong documentation trail). They share 24.3cm which is (just) feasible for half-second cousins (which the documentation suggests.) (also DNAPainter)



I have double-checked the documentation trails and am happy that they are robust (including determining that the mother of Caroline Ellen Augusta Brown was resident in April 1861 at the address at which Caroline Ellen Brown gave birth to my ancestor in May 1861, and that Ellen the mother of Henry Dillistone Brown signed his Royal Navy enlistment papers as Ellen Wright.) Although I'm comfortable that the two Carolines are the same person, would these DNA results unsupported by the smoking gun of the mother's residence be sufficient to conclude that Caroline Ellen Augusta Brown and Caroline Ellen Brown are the same person or would I need to look for further DNA evidence? If so, how would I go about it?










share|improve this question





























    3















    Individuals H and J are 2nd cousins (supported by a strong documentation trail) who share two ancestors: John Charles Wright (circa 1830-1904) and Caroline Ellen Brown (circa 1827 – 1871). They share 223cm of DNA which is comfortably within the range of 2nd cousins (DNAPainter).



    H and J have a common match (on Ancestry) D who descends from Henry Dillistone Brown born 15 May 1852 in Sawbridgeworth, Hertfordshire, illegitimate son of Caroline Ellen Augusta Brown (also supported by a strong documentation trail). They share 24.3cm which is (just) feasible for half-second cousins (which the documentation suggests.) (also DNAPainter)



    I have double-checked the documentation trails and am happy that they are robust (including determining that the mother of Caroline Ellen Augusta Brown was resident in April 1861 at the address at which Caroline Ellen Brown gave birth to my ancestor in May 1861, and that Ellen the mother of Henry Dillistone Brown signed his Royal Navy enlistment papers as Ellen Wright.) Although I'm comfortable that the two Carolines are the same person, would these DNA results unsupported by the smoking gun of the mother's residence be sufficient to conclude that Caroline Ellen Augusta Brown and Caroline Ellen Brown are the same person or would I need to look for further DNA evidence? If so, how would I go about it?










    share|improve this question



























      3












      3








      3








      Individuals H and J are 2nd cousins (supported by a strong documentation trail) who share two ancestors: John Charles Wright (circa 1830-1904) and Caroline Ellen Brown (circa 1827 – 1871). They share 223cm of DNA which is comfortably within the range of 2nd cousins (DNAPainter).



      H and J have a common match (on Ancestry) D who descends from Henry Dillistone Brown born 15 May 1852 in Sawbridgeworth, Hertfordshire, illegitimate son of Caroline Ellen Augusta Brown (also supported by a strong documentation trail). They share 24.3cm which is (just) feasible for half-second cousins (which the documentation suggests.) (also DNAPainter)



      I have double-checked the documentation trails and am happy that they are robust (including determining that the mother of Caroline Ellen Augusta Brown was resident in April 1861 at the address at which Caroline Ellen Brown gave birth to my ancestor in May 1861, and that Ellen the mother of Henry Dillistone Brown signed his Royal Navy enlistment papers as Ellen Wright.) Although I'm comfortable that the two Carolines are the same person, would these DNA results unsupported by the smoking gun of the mother's residence be sufficient to conclude that Caroline Ellen Augusta Brown and Caroline Ellen Brown are the same person or would I need to look for further DNA evidence? If so, how would I go about it?










      share|improve this question
















      Individuals H and J are 2nd cousins (supported by a strong documentation trail) who share two ancestors: John Charles Wright (circa 1830-1904) and Caroline Ellen Brown (circa 1827 – 1871). They share 223cm of DNA which is comfortably within the range of 2nd cousins (DNAPainter).



      H and J have a common match (on Ancestry) D who descends from Henry Dillistone Brown born 15 May 1852 in Sawbridgeworth, Hertfordshire, illegitimate son of Caroline Ellen Augusta Brown (also supported by a strong documentation trail). They share 24.3cm which is (just) feasible for half-second cousins (which the documentation suggests.) (also DNAPainter)



      I have double-checked the documentation trails and am happy that they are robust (including determining that the mother of Caroline Ellen Augusta Brown was resident in April 1861 at the address at which Caroline Ellen Brown gave birth to my ancestor in May 1861, and that Ellen the mother of Henry Dillistone Brown signed his Royal Navy enlistment papers as Ellen Wright.) Although I'm comfortable that the two Carolines are the same person, would these DNA results unsupported by the smoking gun of the mother's residence be sufficient to conclude that Caroline Ellen Augusta Brown and Caroline Ellen Brown are the same person or would I need to look for further DNA evidence? If so, how would I go about it?







      autosomal-dna






      share|improve this question















      share|improve this question













      share|improve this question




      share|improve this question








      edited Dec 31 '18 at 8:25







      ColeValleyGirl

















      asked Dec 29 '18 at 13:31









      ColeValleyGirlColeValleyGirl

      2,5471627




      2,5471627






















          2 Answers
          2






          active

          oldest

          votes


















          3














          In my opinion, the DNA evidence - centimorgan amount, likelihood relationship, and triangulation - is suggestive but not sufficient. Two additional pieces of DNA evidence that I would look for include (1) DNA segment analysis or chromosome mapping and (2) clustering of shared matches through Caroline Brown and the parents of Caroline Brown. DNA segment analysis requires that DNA matches are on a site that has a chromosome browser and ensures that all matches share the same segments of DNA. Clustering would require more shared matches that are linked through Caroline or her parents as the MRCA. In addition, I think that most genealogists would want genealogical documentary evidence to support the relationship.






          share|improve this answer































            3














            DNA rarely is enough evidence on its own.



            The DNA results in this case support your theory that D is the half second cousin of both H and J due to an illegitimate child of a common great grandmother.



            The DNA also supports other potential theories. For example, the half-sibling of H's and J's grandparents could come from the great grandfather. Or that 24cM match could come from any number of different relations. Half second cousin once removed on up and, on the full cousin side, even an 8th cousin could match with that amount (there isn't data for going further).



            Your paper trail is strong enough to narrow this down to the one possibility you posit. But, if you didn't have that, your DNA evidence would not be able to narrow it down.



            In this case you'd need a wide shot approach. Test everyone you can. Encourage every documented cousin you find to submit to Gedmatch (or allow you to do so for them) so you can run as many comparisons as you want, regardless of where people have tested. Eventually this will narrow down the family lines where this match can come from and you'll start to get some stronger possibilities.



            MtDNA and Y-DNA may come to play a part as well. If your theory is correct then mtDNA will be the one that counts here, but Y could help in some other cases.



            This is not an easy case to settle just with DNA evidence. But the DNA results can help you with the paper trail results.






            share|improve this answer























              Your Answer








              StackExchange.ready(function() {
              var channelOptions = {
              tags: "".split(" "),
              id: "467"
              };
              initTagRenderer("".split(" "), "".split(" "), channelOptions);

              StackExchange.using("externalEditor", function() {
              // Have to fire editor after snippets, if snippets enabled
              if (StackExchange.settings.snippets.snippetsEnabled) {
              StackExchange.using("snippets", function() {
              createEditor();
              });
              }
              else {
              createEditor();
              }
              });

              function createEditor() {
              StackExchange.prepareEditor({
              heartbeatType: 'answer',
              autoActivateHeartbeat: false,
              convertImagesToLinks: false,
              noModals: true,
              showLowRepImageUploadWarning: true,
              reputationToPostImages: null,
              bindNavPrevention: true,
              postfix: "",
              imageUploader: {
              brandingHtml: "Powered by u003ca class="icon-imgur-white" href="https://imgur.com/"u003eu003c/au003e",
              contentPolicyHtml: "User contributions licensed under u003ca href="https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/"u003ecc by-sa 3.0 with attribution requiredu003c/au003e u003ca href="https://stackoverflow.com/legal/content-policy"u003e(content policy)u003c/au003e",
              allowUrls: true
              },
              noCode: true, onDemand: true,
              discardSelector: ".discard-answer"
              ,immediatelyShowMarkdownHelp:true
              });


              }
              });














              draft saved

              draft discarded


















              StackExchange.ready(
              function () {
              StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fgenealogy.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f14999%2fadequacy-of-dna-evidence-how-can-i-improve-it%23new-answer', 'question_page');
              }
              );

              Post as a guest















              Required, but never shown

























              2 Answers
              2






              active

              oldest

              votes








              2 Answers
              2






              active

              oldest

              votes









              active

              oldest

              votes






              active

              oldest

              votes









              3














              In my opinion, the DNA evidence - centimorgan amount, likelihood relationship, and triangulation - is suggestive but not sufficient. Two additional pieces of DNA evidence that I would look for include (1) DNA segment analysis or chromosome mapping and (2) clustering of shared matches through Caroline Brown and the parents of Caroline Brown. DNA segment analysis requires that DNA matches are on a site that has a chromosome browser and ensures that all matches share the same segments of DNA. Clustering would require more shared matches that are linked through Caroline or her parents as the MRCA. In addition, I think that most genealogists would want genealogical documentary evidence to support the relationship.






              share|improve this answer




























                3














                In my opinion, the DNA evidence - centimorgan amount, likelihood relationship, and triangulation - is suggestive but not sufficient. Two additional pieces of DNA evidence that I would look for include (1) DNA segment analysis or chromosome mapping and (2) clustering of shared matches through Caroline Brown and the parents of Caroline Brown. DNA segment analysis requires that DNA matches are on a site that has a chromosome browser and ensures that all matches share the same segments of DNA. Clustering would require more shared matches that are linked through Caroline or her parents as the MRCA. In addition, I think that most genealogists would want genealogical documentary evidence to support the relationship.






                share|improve this answer


























                  3












                  3








                  3







                  In my opinion, the DNA evidence - centimorgan amount, likelihood relationship, and triangulation - is suggestive but not sufficient. Two additional pieces of DNA evidence that I would look for include (1) DNA segment analysis or chromosome mapping and (2) clustering of shared matches through Caroline Brown and the parents of Caroline Brown. DNA segment analysis requires that DNA matches are on a site that has a chromosome browser and ensures that all matches share the same segments of DNA. Clustering would require more shared matches that are linked through Caroline or her parents as the MRCA. In addition, I think that most genealogists would want genealogical documentary evidence to support the relationship.






                  share|improve this answer













                  In my opinion, the DNA evidence - centimorgan amount, likelihood relationship, and triangulation - is suggestive but not sufficient. Two additional pieces of DNA evidence that I would look for include (1) DNA segment analysis or chromosome mapping and (2) clustering of shared matches through Caroline Brown and the parents of Caroline Brown. DNA segment analysis requires that DNA matches are on a site that has a chromosome browser and ensures that all matches share the same segments of DNA. Clustering would require more shared matches that are linked through Caroline or her parents as the MRCA. In addition, I think that most genealogists would want genealogical documentary evidence to support the relationship.







                  share|improve this answer












                  share|improve this answer



                  share|improve this answer










                  answered Dec 29 '18 at 19:15









                  sweetwithnutssweetwithnuts

                  314




                  314























                      3














                      DNA rarely is enough evidence on its own.



                      The DNA results in this case support your theory that D is the half second cousin of both H and J due to an illegitimate child of a common great grandmother.



                      The DNA also supports other potential theories. For example, the half-sibling of H's and J's grandparents could come from the great grandfather. Or that 24cM match could come from any number of different relations. Half second cousin once removed on up and, on the full cousin side, even an 8th cousin could match with that amount (there isn't data for going further).



                      Your paper trail is strong enough to narrow this down to the one possibility you posit. But, if you didn't have that, your DNA evidence would not be able to narrow it down.



                      In this case you'd need a wide shot approach. Test everyone you can. Encourage every documented cousin you find to submit to Gedmatch (or allow you to do so for them) so you can run as many comparisons as you want, regardless of where people have tested. Eventually this will narrow down the family lines where this match can come from and you'll start to get some stronger possibilities.



                      MtDNA and Y-DNA may come to play a part as well. If your theory is correct then mtDNA will be the one that counts here, but Y could help in some other cases.



                      This is not an easy case to settle just with DNA evidence. But the DNA results can help you with the paper trail results.






                      share|improve this answer




























                        3














                        DNA rarely is enough evidence on its own.



                        The DNA results in this case support your theory that D is the half second cousin of both H and J due to an illegitimate child of a common great grandmother.



                        The DNA also supports other potential theories. For example, the half-sibling of H's and J's grandparents could come from the great grandfather. Or that 24cM match could come from any number of different relations. Half second cousin once removed on up and, on the full cousin side, even an 8th cousin could match with that amount (there isn't data for going further).



                        Your paper trail is strong enough to narrow this down to the one possibility you posit. But, if you didn't have that, your DNA evidence would not be able to narrow it down.



                        In this case you'd need a wide shot approach. Test everyone you can. Encourage every documented cousin you find to submit to Gedmatch (or allow you to do so for them) so you can run as many comparisons as you want, regardless of where people have tested. Eventually this will narrow down the family lines where this match can come from and you'll start to get some stronger possibilities.



                        MtDNA and Y-DNA may come to play a part as well. If your theory is correct then mtDNA will be the one that counts here, but Y could help in some other cases.



                        This is not an easy case to settle just with DNA evidence. But the DNA results can help you with the paper trail results.






                        share|improve this answer


























                          3












                          3








                          3







                          DNA rarely is enough evidence on its own.



                          The DNA results in this case support your theory that D is the half second cousin of both H and J due to an illegitimate child of a common great grandmother.



                          The DNA also supports other potential theories. For example, the half-sibling of H's and J's grandparents could come from the great grandfather. Or that 24cM match could come from any number of different relations. Half second cousin once removed on up and, on the full cousin side, even an 8th cousin could match with that amount (there isn't data for going further).



                          Your paper trail is strong enough to narrow this down to the one possibility you posit. But, if you didn't have that, your DNA evidence would not be able to narrow it down.



                          In this case you'd need a wide shot approach. Test everyone you can. Encourage every documented cousin you find to submit to Gedmatch (or allow you to do so for them) so you can run as many comparisons as you want, regardless of where people have tested. Eventually this will narrow down the family lines where this match can come from and you'll start to get some stronger possibilities.



                          MtDNA and Y-DNA may come to play a part as well. If your theory is correct then mtDNA will be the one that counts here, but Y could help in some other cases.



                          This is not an easy case to settle just with DNA evidence. But the DNA results can help you with the paper trail results.






                          share|improve this answer













                          DNA rarely is enough evidence on its own.



                          The DNA results in this case support your theory that D is the half second cousin of both H and J due to an illegitimate child of a common great grandmother.



                          The DNA also supports other potential theories. For example, the half-sibling of H's and J's grandparents could come from the great grandfather. Or that 24cM match could come from any number of different relations. Half second cousin once removed on up and, on the full cousin side, even an 8th cousin could match with that amount (there isn't data for going further).



                          Your paper trail is strong enough to narrow this down to the one possibility you posit. But, if you didn't have that, your DNA evidence would not be able to narrow it down.



                          In this case you'd need a wide shot approach. Test everyone you can. Encourage every documented cousin you find to submit to Gedmatch (or allow you to do so for them) so you can run as many comparisons as you want, regardless of where people have tested. Eventually this will narrow down the family lines where this match can come from and you'll start to get some stronger possibilities.



                          MtDNA and Y-DNA may come to play a part as well. If your theory is correct then mtDNA will be the one that counts here, but Y could help in some other cases.



                          This is not an easy case to settle just with DNA evidence. But the DNA results can help you with the paper trail results.







                          share|improve this answer












                          share|improve this answer



                          share|improve this answer










                          answered Dec 29 '18 at 19:22









                          CynCyn

                          2,2451123




                          2,2451123






























                              draft saved

                              draft discarded




















































                              Thanks for contributing an answer to Genealogy & Family History Stack Exchange!


                              • Please be sure to answer the question. Provide details and share your research!

                              But avoid



                              • Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers.

                              • Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience.


                              To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers.




                              draft saved


                              draft discarded














                              StackExchange.ready(
                              function () {
                              StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fgenealogy.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f14999%2fadequacy-of-dna-evidence-how-can-i-improve-it%23new-answer', 'question_page');
                              }
                              );

                              Post as a guest















                              Required, but never shown





















































                              Required, but never shown














                              Required, but never shown












                              Required, but never shown







                              Required, but never shown

































                              Required, but never shown














                              Required, but never shown












                              Required, but never shown







                              Required, but never shown







                              Popular posts from this blog

                              To store a contact into the json file from server.js file using a class in NodeJS

                              Redirect URL with Chrome Remote Debugging Android Devices

                              Dieringhausen