Volume of $T_n={x_ige0:x_1+cdots+x_nle1}$
$begingroup$
Let $T_n={x_ige0:x_1+cdots+x_nle1}$. I know $T_n$ is tetrahedron.
My question: How can I compute the volume of $T_n$ for every $n$?
calculus integration multivariable-calculus volume simplex
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Let $T_n={x_ige0:x_1+cdots+x_nle1}$. I know $T_n$ is tetrahedron.
My question: How can I compute the volume of $T_n$ for every $n$?
calculus integration multivariable-calculus volume simplex
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Let $T_n={x_ige0:x_1+cdots+x_nle1}$. I know $T_n$ is tetrahedron.
My question: How can I compute the volume of $T_n$ for every $n$?
calculus integration multivariable-calculus volume simplex
$endgroup$
Let $T_n={x_ige0:x_1+cdots+x_nle1}$. I know $T_n$ is tetrahedron.
My question: How can I compute the volume of $T_n$ for every $n$?
calculus integration multivariable-calculus volume simplex
calculus integration multivariable-calculus volume simplex
edited Mar 17 '16 at 13:51
Martin Sleziak
44.7k10119272
44.7k10119272
asked Apr 26 '14 at 0:48
user145801
add a comment |
add a comment |
4 Answers
4
active
oldest
votes
$begingroup$
First suppose that we want to find the volume of $T_n(a)$, then by change of variables $X=aU$, you can see that we have $V(T_n(a))=color{red}{a^n}V(T_n(1))$.
Since $x_1+cdots+x_nle1$ if and only if $x_nle1$ and $x_1+cdots+x_{n-1}le 1-x_n$, we have
$$begin{align}V(T_n(1))&=int_{x_nle 1}left(int_{x_1+cdots+x_{n-1}le1-x_n}dx_1cdots dx_{n-1}right)dx_n\
&=V(T_{n-1}(1))int_{x_nle1}color{red}{(1-x_n)^{n-1}}dx_n=frac1 nV(T_{n-1}(1))end{align}$$
The numbers $V(T_n(1))$ satisfy in the above recursion formula, so
$$V(T_n(1))=frac1{n!}.$$
One another way is to consider the following integral
$$I=int_{T_n(a)}e^{-(x_1+cdots+x_n)}dx_1cdots dx_n$$
Since $V(T_n(a))=a^nV(T_n(1))$,
$$I=int_0^infty e^{-a}dV(T_n(a))=V(T_n(1))int_0^infty n a^{n-1}e^{-a}da=n!V(T_n(1))$$
But also we have
$$I=left(int_0^infty e^{-x}dxright)^n=1$$
Hence,
$$V(T_n(1))=frac1{n!}.$$
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
I got the answer to the other question :). plus the other question is easy. This one is harder. I have one question: earlier today I was thinking this problem can be solved maybe by using a change of variables? What do you think about using $y_i = sum_{j=1}^i x_j $ ?
$endgroup$
– user145801
May 1 '14 at 9:13
$begingroup$
ِDid you calculate Jacobian of this change of variable?
$endgroup$
– user91500
May 1 '14 at 9:23
$begingroup$
I did it for the case $n=3$ which is $1$
$endgroup$
– user145801
May 1 '14 at 9:24
$begingroup$
and $n=2$ also .
$endgroup$
– user145801
May 1 '14 at 9:30
2
$begingroup$
Jacobian for arbitrary $n$ is also $1$, but I suggest you to use following change of variable $$y_1=x_n,y_2=x_{n-1}+x_{n},cdots,y_n=x_1+cdots+x_n$$ Then it's Jacobian is also $1$ and we have $$V(T_n(1))=int_0^1int_{y_1}^1int_{y_2}^1cdotsint_{y_{n-1}}^11~dy_n~dy_{n-1}~dy_{n-2}cdots~dy_1.$$
$endgroup$
– user91500
May 1 '14 at 10:43
add a comment |
$begingroup$
What is the probability that a random sequence of $n$ numbers in $[0,1]$ is sorted (lowest to highest)? that is, let $y_1,y_2,dots,y_n$ be independent uniform random variables in $[0,1]$. Then the probability $P(y_1leq y_2leq dots leq y_n)=frac{1}{n!}$.
Let $A=(a_{ij})$ be the matrix such that $a_{ij}=1$ if $igeq j$ and $a_{ij}=0$ if $i<j$. Then $det A = 1$ since $A$ is lower-triangular and $a_{ii}=1$ for all $i$. On the other hand, if you take the two sets:
$$S={(x_1,dots,x_n)^T: 0leq x_ileq 1: sum x_i leq 1}$$
and $$T={(x_1,dots,x_n)^T: 0leq x_1leq x_2dots leq x_nleq 1}$$
Then $T$ is the image of $S$ under the transformation $A$, that is, $AS=T$. So $$frac{1}{n!}=mathrm{vol}(T) = det Acdotmathrm{vol}(S) = mathrm{vol}(S)$$
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
It's 1/n!, but I'm having trouble seeing how that relates to volume
$endgroup$
– MathPhys137
Feb 26 '13 at 22:01
$begingroup$
it is actually the same one, but with different form, and I doubt if it is easier to see this.
$endgroup$
– Yimin
Feb 26 '13 at 22:01
$begingroup$
@MathPhys137, just think of Monte Carlo method
$endgroup$
– Yimin
Feb 26 '13 at 22:01
$begingroup$
Oh I see. Thanks Thomas!
$endgroup$
– MathPhys137
Feb 26 '13 at 22:03
2
$begingroup$
Note, the set I describe and the simplex set are not isometric/congruent, you nead some skew transformation which preserves volume. Basically, you need to know that the transformation $(x_1,dots,x_n)to (x_1,x_1+x_2,cdots,sum_{i=1}^n x_n)$ is a volume-preserving map.
$endgroup$
– Thomas Andrews
Feb 26 '13 at 22:14
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Hint: The general rule is that the $n$-volume of a simplex is $frac 1n$ times the $ (n-1)$ volume of the base times the height, which you can prove by integration. The height is $1$, so you have a recurrence.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Try using induction. $T_{1}$ is just in the interval $[0,1]$, which has volume (length) $1$. $T_{2}$ is a right triangle with volume (area) $1/2$. Now imagine the case for $n=3$. When we slice the tetrahedron $T_{3}$ at some height $zin[0,1]$, we get a cross section that looks like $T_{2}$. But as $z$ gets bigger, the cross section gets smaller. Try to convince yourself that in general we have
$$
v(T_{n})=int_{0}^{1}(1-x)^{n-1}v(T_{n-1}),mathrm{d}x=frac{1}{n}v(T_{n-1})
$$
Then, using the fact that $v(T_{1})=1$, we have $v(T_{n})=1/n!$. Note that we scale by $(1-x)^{n-1}$ instead of by $1-x$ because it is the linear dimensions of the $T_{n-1}$ slice that scale by $1-x$, which translates to the $mathbb{R}^{n-1}$ volume of the slice scaling by $(1-x)^{n-1}$.
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
Thanks Ben! I have one question. Is there a way to solve this problem using triple integrals? and maybe a change of variables?
$endgroup$
– user145801
Apr 26 '14 at 1:03
$begingroup$
Unfortunately I answered too hastily and this approach is wrong! I apologize. I believe Ross' answer is correct. For $T_{3}$ the integral would be $int_{0}^{1}int_{0}^{1-z}int_{0}^{1-(y+z)}1 , mathrm{d} x , mathrm{d} y , mathrm{d} z$.
$endgroup$
– Ben Whitney
Apr 26 '14 at 1:14
1
$begingroup$
I have fixed my response, which is now a more fleshed out version of Ross'.
$endgroup$
– Ben Whitney
Apr 26 '14 at 1:26
add a comment |
Your Answer
StackExchange.ifUsing("editor", function () {
return StackExchange.using("mathjaxEditing", function () {
StackExchange.MarkdownEditor.creationCallbacks.add(function (editor, postfix) {
StackExchange.mathjaxEditing.prepareWmdForMathJax(editor, postfix, [["$", "$"], ["\\(","\\)"]]);
});
});
}, "mathjax-editing");
StackExchange.ready(function() {
var channelOptions = {
tags: "".split(" "),
id: "69"
};
initTagRenderer("".split(" "), "".split(" "), channelOptions);
StackExchange.using("externalEditor", function() {
// Have to fire editor after snippets, if snippets enabled
if (StackExchange.settings.snippets.snippetsEnabled) {
StackExchange.using("snippets", function() {
createEditor();
});
}
else {
createEditor();
}
});
function createEditor() {
StackExchange.prepareEditor({
heartbeatType: 'answer',
autoActivateHeartbeat: false,
convertImagesToLinks: true,
noModals: true,
showLowRepImageUploadWarning: true,
reputationToPostImages: 10,
bindNavPrevention: true,
postfix: "",
imageUploader: {
brandingHtml: "Powered by u003ca class="icon-imgur-white" href="https://imgur.com/"u003eu003c/au003e",
contentPolicyHtml: "User contributions licensed under u003ca href="https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/"u003ecc by-sa 3.0 with attribution requiredu003c/au003e u003ca href="https://stackoverflow.com/legal/content-policy"u003e(content policy)u003c/au003e",
allowUrls: true
},
noCode: true, onDemand: true,
discardSelector: ".discard-answer"
,immediatelyShowMarkdownHelp:true
});
}
});
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
StackExchange.ready(
function () {
StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fmath.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f769545%2fvolume-of-t-n-x-i-ge0x-1-cdotsx-n-le1%23new-answer', 'question_page');
}
);
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
4 Answers
4
active
oldest
votes
4 Answers
4
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
$begingroup$
First suppose that we want to find the volume of $T_n(a)$, then by change of variables $X=aU$, you can see that we have $V(T_n(a))=color{red}{a^n}V(T_n(1))$.
Since $x_1+cdots+x_nle1$ if and only if $x_nle1$ and $x_1+cdots+x_{n-1}le 1-x_n$, we have
$$begin{align}V(T_n(1))&=int_{x_nle 1}left(int_{x_1+cdots+x_{n-1}le1-x_n}dx_1cdots dx_{n-1}right)dx_n\
&=V(T_{n-1}(1))int_{x_nle1}color{red}{(1-x_n)^{n-1}}dx_n=frac1 nV(T_{n-1}(1))end{align}$$
The numbers $V(T_n(1))$ satisfy in the above recursion formula, so
$$V(T_n(1))=frac1{n!}.$$
One another way is to consider the following integral
$$I=int_{T_n(a)}e^{-(x_1+cdots+x_n)}dx_1cdots dx_n$$
Since $V(T_n(a))=a^nV(T_n(1))$,
$$I=int_0^infty e^{-a}dV(T_n(a))=V(T_n(1))int_0^infty n a^{n-1}e^{-a}da=n!V(T_n(1))$$
But also we have
$$I=left(int_0^infty e^{-x}dxright)^n=1$$
Hence,
$$V(T_n(1))=frac1{n!}.$$
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
I got the answer to the other question :). plus the other question is easy. This one is harder. I have one question: earlier today I was thinking this problem can be solved maybe by using a change of variables? What do you think about using $y_i = sum_{j=1}^i x_j $ ?
$endgroup$
– user145801
May 1 '14 at 9:13
$begingroup$
ِDid you calculate Jacobian of this change of variable?
$endgroup$
– user91500
May 1 '14 at 9:23
$begingroup$
I did it for the case $n=3$ which is $1$
$endgroup$
– user145801
May 1 '14 at 9:24
$begingroup$
and $n=2$ also .
$endgroup$
– user145801
May 1 '14 at 9:30
2
$begingroup$
Jacobian for arbitrary $n$ is also $1$, but I suggest you to use following change of variable $$y_1=x_n,y_2=x_{n-1}+x_{n},cdots,y_n=x_1+cdots+x_n$$ Then it's Jacobian is also $1$ and we have $$V(T_n(1))=int_0^1int_{y_1}^1int_{y_2}^1cdotsint_{y_{n-1}}^11~dy_n~dy_{n-1}~dy_{n-2}cdots~dy_1.$$
$endgroup$
– user91500
May 1 '14 at 10:43
add a comment |
$begingroup$
First suppose that we want to find the volume of $T_n(a)$, then by change of variables $X=aU$, you can see that we have $V(T_n(a))=color{red}{a^n}V(T_n(1))$.
Since $x_1+cdots+x_nle1$ if and only if $x_nle1$ and $x_1+cdots+x_{n-1}le 1-x_n$, we have
$$begin{align}V(T_n(1))&=int_{x_nle 1}left(int_{x_1+cdots+x_{n-1}le1-x_n}dx_1cdots dx_{n-1}right)dx_n\
&=V(T_{n-1}(1))int_{x_nle1}color{red}{(1-x_n)^{n-1}}dx_n=frac1 nV(T_{n-1}(1))end{align}$$
The numbers $V(T_n(1))$ satisfy in the above recursion formula, so
$$V(T_n(1))=frac1{n!}.$$
One another way is to consider the following integral
$$I=int_{T_n(a)}e^{-(x_1+cdots+x_n)}dx_1cdots dx_n$$
Since $V(T_n(a))=a^nV(T_n(1))$,
$$I=int_0^infty e^{-a}dV(T_n(a))=V(T_n(1))int_0^infty n a^{n-1}e^{-a}da=n!V(T_n(1))$$
But also we have
$$I=left(int_0^infty e^{-x}dxright)^n=1$$
Hence,
$$V(T_n(1))=frac1{n!}.$$
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
I got the answer to the other question :). plus the other question is easy. This one is harder. I have one question: earlier today I was thinking this problem can be solved maybe by using a change of variables? What do you think about using $y_i = sum_{j=1}^i x_j $ ?
$endgroup$
– user145801
May 1 '14 at 9:13
$begingroup$
ِDid you calculate Jacobian of this change of variable?
$endgroup$
– user91500
May 1 '14 at 9:23
$begingroup$
I did it for the case $n=3$ which is $1$
$endgroup$
– user145801
May 1 '14 at 9:24
$begingroup$
and $n=2$ also .
$endgroup$
– user145801
May 1 '14 at 9:30
2
$begingroup$
Jacobian for arbitrary $n$ is also $1$, but I suggest you to use following change of variable $$y_1=x_n,y_2=x_{n-1}+x_{n},cdots,y_n=x_1+cdots+x_n$$ Then it's Jacobian is also $1$ and we have $$V(T_n(1))=int_0^1int_{y_1}^1int_{y_2}^1cdotsint_{y_{n-1}}^11~dy_n~dy_{n-1}~dy_{n-2}cdots~dy_1.$$
$endgroup$
– user91500
May 1 '14 at 10:43
add a comment |
$begingroup$
First suppose that we want to find the volume of $T_n(a)$, then by change of variables $X=aU$, you can see that we have $V(T_n(a))=color{red}{a^n}V(T_n(1))$.
Since $x_1+cdots+x_nle1$ if and only if $x_nle1$ and $x_1+cdots+x_{n-1}le 1-x_n$, we have
$$begin{align}V(T_n(1))&=int_{x_nle 1}left(int_{x_1+cdots+x_{n-1}le1-x_n}dx_1cdots dx_{n-1}right)dx_n\
&=V(T_{n-1}(1))int_{x_nle1}color{red}{(1-x_n)^{n-1}}dx_n=frac1 nV(T_{n-1}(1))end{align}$$
The numbers $V(T_n(1))$ satisfy in the above recursion formula, so
$$V(T_n(1))=frac1{n!}.$$
One another way is to consider the following integral
$$I=int_{T_n(a)}e^{-(x_1+cdots+x_n)}dx_1cdots dx_n$$
Since $V(T_n(a))=a^nV(T_n(1))$,
$$I=int_0^infty e^{-a}dV(T_n(a))=V(T_n(1))int_0^infty n a^{n-1}e^{-a}da=n!V(T_n(1))$$
But also we have
$$I=left(int_0^infty e^{-x}dxright)^n=1$$
Hence,
$$V(T_n(1))=frac1{n!}.$$
$endgroup$
First suppose that we want to find the volume of $T_n(a)$, then by change of variables $X=aU$, you can see that we have $V(T_n(a))=color{red}{a^n}V(T_n(1))$.
Since $x_1+cdots+x_nle1$ if and only if $x_nle1$ and $x_1+cdots+x_{n-1}le 1-x_n$, we have
$$begin{align}V(T_n(1))&=int_{x_nle 1}left(int_{x_1+cdots+x_{n-1}le1-x_n}dx_1cdots dx_{n-1}right)dx_n\
&=V(T_{n-1}(1))int_{x_nle1}color{red}{(1-x_n)^{n-1}}dx_n=frac1 nV(T_{n-1}(1))end{align}$$
The numbers $V(T_n(1))$ satisfy in the above recursion formula, so
$$V(T_n(1))=frac1{n!}.$$
One another way is to consider the following integral
$$I=int_{T_n(a)}e^{-(x_1+cdots+x_n)}dx_1cdots dx_n$$
Since $V(T_n(a))=a^nV(T_n(1))$,
$$I=int_0^infty e^{-a}dV(T_n(a))=V(T_n(1))int_0^infty n a^{n-1}e^{-a}da=n!V(T_n(1))$$
But also we have
$$I=left(int_0^infty e^{-x}dxright)^n=1$$
Hence,
$$V(T_n(1))=frac1{n!}.$$
edited May 1 '14 at 14:33
answered May 1 '14 at 8:26
user91500user91500
3,650946105
3,650946105
$begingroup$
I got the answer to the other question :). plus the other question is easy. This one is harder. I have one question: earlier today I was thinking this problem can be solved maybe by using a change of variables? What do you think about using $y_i = sum_{j=1}^i x_j $ ?
$endgroup$
– user145801
May 1 '14 at 9:13
$begingroup$
ِDid you calculate Jacobian of this change of variable?
$endgroup$
– user91500
May 1 '14 at 9:23
$begingroup$
I did it for the case $n=3$ which is $1$
$endgroup$
– user145801
May 1 '14 at 9:24
$begingroup$
and $n=2$ also .
$endgroup$
– user145801
May 1 '14 at 9:30
2
$begingroup$
Jacobian for arbitrary $n$ is also $1$, but I suggest you to use following change of variable $$y_1=x_n,y_2=x_{n-1}+x_{n},cdots,y_n=x_1+cdots+x_n$$ Then it's Jacobian is also $1$ and we have $$V(T_n(1))=int_0^1int_{y_1}^1int_{y_2}^1cdotsint_{y_{n-1}}^11~dy_n~dy_{n-1}~dy_{n-2}cdots~dy_1.$$
$endgroup$
– user91500
May 1 '14 at 10:43
add a comment |
$begingroup$
I got the answer to the other question :). plus the other question is easy. This one is harder. I have one question: earlier today I was thinking this problem can be solved maybe by using a change of variables? What do you think about using $y_i = sum_{j=1}^i x_j $ ?
$endgroup$
– user145801
May 1 '14 at 9:13
$begingroup$
ِDid you calculate Jacobian of this change of variable?
$endgroup$
– user91500
May 1 '14 at 9:23
$begingroup$
I did it for the case $n=3$ which is $1$
$endgroup$
– user145801
May 1 '14 at 9:24
$begingroup$
and $n=2$ also .
$endgroup$
– user145801
May 1 '14 at 9:30
2
$begingroup$
Jacobian for arbitrary $n$ is also $1$, but I suggest you to use following change of variable $$y_1=x_n,y_2=x_{n-1}+x_{n},cdots,y_n=x_1+cdots+x_n$$ Then it's Jacobian is also $1$ and we have $$V(T_n(1))=int_0^1int_{y_1}^1int_{y_2}^1cdotsint_{y_{n-1}}^11~dy_n~dy_{n-1}~dy_{n-2}cdots~dy_1.$$
$endgroup$
– user91500
May 1 '14 at 10:43
$begingroup$
I got the answer to the other question :). plus the other question is easy. This one is harder. I have one question: earlier today I was thinking this problem can be solved maybe by using a change of variables? What do you think about using $y_i = sum_{j=1}^i x_j $ ?
$endgroup$
– user145801
May 1 '14 at 9:13
$begingroup$
I got the answer to the other question :). plus the other question is easy. This one is harder. I have one question: earlier today I was thinking this problem can be solved maybe by using a change of variables? What do you think about using $y_i = sum_{j=1}^i x_j $ ?
$endgroup$
– user145801
May 1 '14 at 9:13
$begingroup$
ِDid you calculate Jacobian of this change of variable?
$endgroup$
– user91500
May 1 '14 at 9:23
$begingroup$
ِDid you calculate Jacobian of this change of variable?
$endgroup$
– user91500
May 1 '14 at 9:23
$begingroup$
I did it for the case $n=3$ which is $1$
$endgroup$
– user145801
May 1 '14 at 9:24
$begingroup$
I did it for the case $n=3$ which is $1$
$endgroup$
– user145801
May 1 '14 at 9:24
$begingroup$
and $n=2$ also .
$endgroup$
– user145801
May 1 '14 at 9:30
$begingroup$
and $n=2$ also .
$endgroup$
– user145801
May 1 '14 at 9:30
2
2
$begingroup$
Jacobian for arbitrary $n$ is also $1$, but I suggest you to use following change of variable $$y_1=x_n,y_2=x_{n-1}+x_{n},cdots,y_n=x_1+cdots+x_n$$ Then it's Jacobian is also $1$ and we have $$V(T_n(1))=int_0^1int_{y_1}^1int_{y_2}^1cdotsint_{y_{n-1}}^11~dy_n~dy_{n-1}~dy_{n-2}cdots~dy_1.$$
$endgroup$
– user91500
May 1 '14 at 10:43
$begingroup$
Jacobian for arbitrary $n$ is also $1$, but I suggest you to use following change of variable $$y_1=x_n,y_2=x_{n-1}+x_{n},cdots,y_n=x_1+cdots+x_n$$ Then it's Jacobian is also $1$ and we have $$V(T_n(1))=int_0^1int_{y_1}^1int_{y_2}^1cdotsint_{y_{n-1}}^11~dy_n~dy_{n-1}~dy_{n-2}cdots~dy_1.$$
$endgroup$
– user91500
May 1 '14 at 10:43
add a comment |
$begingroup$
What is the probability that a random sequence of $n$ numbers in $[0,1]$ is sorted (lowest to highest)? that is, let $y_1,y_2,dots,y_n$ be independent uniform random variables in $[0,1]$. Then the probability $P(y_1leq y_2leq dots leq y_n)=frac{1}{n!}$.
Let $A=(a_{ij})$ be the matrix such that $a_{ij}=1$ if $igeq j$ and $a_{ij}=0$ if $i<j$. Then $det A = 1$ since $A$ is lower-triangular and $a_{ii}=1$ for all $i$. On the other hand, if you take the two sets:
$$S={(x_1,dots,x_n)^T: 0leq x_ileq 1: sum x_i leq 1}$$
and $$T={(x_1,dots,x_n)^T: 0leq x_1leq x_2dots leq x_nleq 1}$$
Then $T$ is the image of $S$ under the transformation $A$, that is, $AS=T$. So $$frac{1}{n!}=mathrm{vol}(T) = det Acdotmathrm{vol}(S) = mathrm{vol}(S)$$
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
It's 1/n!, but I'm having trouble seeing how that relates to volume
$endgroup$
– MathPhys137
Feb 26 '13 at 22:01
$begingroup$
it is actually the same one, but with different form, and I doubt if it is easier to see this.
$endgroup$
– Yimin
Feb 26 '13 at 22:01
$begingroup$
@MathPhys137, just think of Monte Carlo method
$endgroup$
– Yimin
Feb 26 '13 at 22:01
$begingroup$
Oh I see. Thanks Thomas!
$endgroup$
– MathPhys137
Feb 26 '13 at 22:03
2
$begingroup$
Note, the set I describe and the simplex set are not isometric/congruent, you nead some skew transformation which preserves volume. Basically, you need to know that the transformation $(x_1,dots,x_n)to (x_1,x_1+x_2,cdots,sum_{i=1}^n x_n)$ is a volume-preserving map.
$endgroup$
– Thomas Andrews
Feb 26 '13 at 22:14
add a comment |
$begingroup$
What is the probability that a random sequence of $n$ numbers in $[0,1]$ is sorted (lowest to highest)? that is, let $y_1,y_2,dots,y_n$ be independent uniform random variables in $[0,1]$. Then the probability $P(y_1leq y_2leq dots leq y_n)=frac{1}{n!}$.
Let $A=(a_{ij})$ be the matrix such that $a_{ij}=1$ if $igeq j$ and $a_{ij}=0$ if $i<j$. Then $det A = 1$ since $A$ is lower-triangular and $a_{ii}=1$ for all $i$. On the other hand, if you take the two sets:
$$S={(x_1,dots,x_n)^T: 0leq x_ileq 1: sum x_i leq 1}$$
and $$T={(x_1,dots,x_n)^T: 0leq x_1leq x_2dots leq x_nleq 1}$$
Then $T$ is the image of $S$ under the transformation $A$, that is, $AS=T$. So $$frac{1}{n!}=mathrm{vol}(T) = det Acdotmathrm{vol}(S) = mathrm{vol}(S)$$
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
It's 1/n!, but I'm having trouble seeing how that relates to volume
$endgroup$
– MathPhys137
Feb 26 '13 at 22:01
$begingroup$
it is actually the same one, but with different form, and I doubt if it is easier to see this.
$endgroup$
– Yimin
Feb 26 '13 at 22:01
$begingroup$
@MathPhys137, just think of Monte Carlo method
$endgroup$
– Yimin
Feb 26 '13 at 22:01
$begingroup$
Oh I see. Thanks Thomas!
$endgroup$
– MathPhys137
Feb 26 '13 at 22:03
2
$begingroup$
Note, the set I describe and the simplex set are not isometric/congruent, you nead some skew transformation which preserves volume. Basically, you need to know that the transformation $(x_1,dots,x_n)to (x_1,x_1+x_2,cdots,sum_{i=1}^n x_n)$ is a volume-preserving map.
$endgroup$
– Thomas Andrews
Feb 26 '13 at 22:14
add a comment |
$begingroup$
What is the probability that a random sequence of $n$ numbers in $[0,1]$ is sorted (lowest to highest)? that is, let $y_1,y_2,dots,y_n$ be independent uniform random variables in $[0,1]$. Then the probability $P(y_1leq y_2leq dots leq y_n)=frac{1}{n!}$.
Let $A=(a_{ij})$ be the matrix such that $a_{ij}=1$ if $igeq j$ and $a_{ij}=0$ if $i<j$. Then $det A = 1$ since $A$ is lower-triangular and $a_{ii}=1$ for all $i$. On the other hand, if you take the two sets:
$$S={(x_1,dots,x_n)^T: 0leq x_ileq 1: sum x_i leq 1}$$
and $$T={(x_1,dots,x_n)^T: 0leq x_1leq x_2dots leq x_nleq 1}$$
Then $T$ is the image of $S$ under the transformation $A$, that is, $AS=T$. So $$frac{1}{n!}=mathrm{vol}(T) = det Acdotmathrm{vol}(S) = mathrm{vol}(S)$$
$endgroup$
What is the probability that a random sequence of $n$ numbers in $[0,1]$ is sorted (lowest to highest)? that is, let $y_1,y_2,dots,y_n$ be independent uniform random variables in $[0,1]$. Then the probability $P(y_1leq y_2leq dots leq y_n)=frac{1}{n!}$.
Let $A=(a_{ij})$ be the matrix such that $a_{ij}=1$ if $igeq j$ and $a_{ij}=0$ if $i<j$. Then $det A = 1$ since $A$ is lower-triangular and $a_{ii}=1$ for all $i$. On the other hand, if you take the two sets:
$$S={(x_1,dots,x_n)^T: 0leq x_ileq 1: sum x_i leq 1}$$
and $$T={(x_1,dots,x_n)^T: 0leq x_1leq x_2dots leq x_nleq 1}$$
Then $T$ is the image of $S$ under the transformation $A$, that is, $AS=T$. So $$frac{1}{n!}=mathrm{vol}(T) = det Acdotmathrm{vol}(S) = mathrm{vol}(S)$$
edited Dec 18 '18 at 17:24
answered Feb 26 '13 at 21:58
Thomas AndrewsThomas Andrews
130k12146298
130k12146298
$begingroup$
It's 1/n!, but I'm having trouble seeing how that relates to volume
$endgroup$
– MathPhys137
Feb 26 '13 at 22:01
$begingroup$
it is actually the same one, but with different form, and I doubt if it is easier to see this.
$endgroup$
– Yimin
Feb 26 '13 at 22:01
$begingroup$
@MathPhys137, just think of Monte Carlo method
$endgroup$
– Yimin
Feb 26 '13 at 22:01
$begingroup$
Oh I see. Thanks Thomas!
$endgroup$
– MathPhys137
Feb 26 '13 at 22:03
2
$begingroup$
Note, the set I describe and the simplex set are not isometric/congruent, you nead some skew transformation which preserves volume. Basically, you need to know that the transformation $(x_1,dots,x_n)to (x_1,x_1+x_2,cdots,sum_{i=1}^n x_n)$ is a volume-preserving map.
$endgroup$
– Thomas Andrews
Feb 26 '13 at 22:14
add a comment |
$begingroup$
It's 1/n!, but I'm having trouble seeing how that relates to volume
$endgroup$
– MathPhys137
Feb 26 '13 at 22:01
$begingroup$
it is actually the same one, but with different form, and I doubt if it is easier to see this.
$endgroup$
– Yimin
Feb 26 '13 at 22:01
$begingroup$
@MathPhys137, just think of Monte Carlo method
$endgroup$
– Yimin
Feb 26 '13 at 22:01
$begingroup$
Oh I see. Thanks Thomas!
$endgroup$
– MathPhys137
Feb 26 '13 at 22:03
2
$begingroup$
Note, the set I describe and the simplex set are not isometric/congruent, you nead some skew transformation which preserves volume. Basically, you need to know that the transformation $(x_1,dots,x_n)to (x_1,x_1+x_2,cdots,sum_{i=1}^n x_n)$ is a volume-preserving map.
$endgroup$
– Thomas Andrews
Feb 26 '13 at 22:14
$begingroup$
It's 1/n!, but I'm having trouble seeing how that relates to volume
$endgroup$
– MathPhys137
Feb 26 '13 at 22:01
$begingroup$
It's 1/n!, but I'm having trouble seeing how that relates to volume
$endgroup$
– MathPhys137
Feb 26 '13 at 22:01
$begingroup$
it is actually the same one, but with different form, and I doubt if it is easier to see this.
$endgroup$
– Yimin
Feb 26 '13 at 22:01
$begingroup$
it is actually the same one, but with different form, and I doubt if it is easier to see this.
$endgroup$
– Yimin
Feb 26 '13 at 22:01
$begingroup$
@MathPhys137, just think of Monte Carlo method
$endgroup$
– Yimin
Feb 26 '13 at 22:01
$begingroup$
@MathPhys137, just think of Monte Carlo method
$endgroup$
– Yimin
Feb 26 '13 at 22:01
$begingroup$
Oh I see. Thanks Thomas!
$endgroup$
– MathPhys137
Feb 26 '13 at 22:03
$begingroup$
Oh I see. Thanks Thomas!
$endgroup$
– MathPhys137
Feb 26 '13 at 22:03
2
2
$begingroup$
Note, the set I describe and the simplex set are not isometric/congruent, you nead some skew transformation which preserves volume. Basically, you need to know that the transformation $(x_1,dots,x_n)to (x_1,x_1+x_2,cdots,sum_{i=1}^n x_n)$ is a volume-preserving map.
$endgroup$
– Thomas Andrews
Feb 26 '13 at 22:14
$begingroup$
Note, the set I describe and the simplex set are not isometric/congruent, you nead some skew transformation which preserves volume. Basically, you need to know that the transformation $(x_1,dots,x_n)to (x_1,x_1+x_2,cdots,sum_{i=1}^n x_n)$ is a volume-preserving map.
$endgroup$
– Thomas Andrews
Feb 26 '13 at 22:14
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Hint: The general rule is that the $n$-volume of a simplex is $frac 1n$ times the $ (n-1)$ volume of the base times the height, which you can prove by integration. The height is $1$, so you have a recurrence.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Hint: The general rule is that the $n$-volume of a simplex is $frac 1n$ times the $ (n-1)$ volume of the base times the height, which you can prove by integration. The height is $1$, so you have a recurrence.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Hint: The general rule is that the $n$-volume of a simplex is $frac 1n$ times the $ (n-1)$ volume of the base times the height, which you can prove by integration. The height is $1$, so you have a recurrence.
$endgroup$
Hint: The general rule is that the $n$-volume of a simplex is $frac 1n$ times the $ (n-1)$ volume of the base times the height, which you can prove by integration. The height is $1$, so you have a recurrence.
answered Apr 26 '14 at 0:56
Ross MillikanRoss Millikan
297k23198371
297k23198371
add a comment |
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Try using induction. $T_{1}$ is just in the interval $[0,1]$, which has volume (length) $1$. $T_{2}$ is a right triangle with volume (area) $1/2$. Now imagine the case for $n=3$. When we slice the tetrahedron $T_{3}$ at some height $zin[0,1]$, we get a cross section that looks like $T_{2}$. But as $z$ gets bigger, the cross section gets smaller. Try to convince yourself that in general we have
$$
v(T_{n})=int_{0}^{1}(1-x)^{n-1}v(T_{n-1}),mathrm{d}x=frac{1}{n}v(T_{n-1})
$$
Then, using the fact that $v(T_{1})=1$, we have $v(T_{n})=1/n!$. Note that we scale by $(1-x)^{n-1}$ instead of by $1-x$ because it is the linear dimensions of the $T_{n-1}$ slice that scale by $1-x$, which translates to the $mathbb{R}^{n-1}$ volume of the slice scaling by $(1-x)^{n-1}$.
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
Thanks Ben! I have one question. Is there a way to solve this problem using triple integrals? and maybe a change of variables?
$endgroup$
– user145801
Apr 26 '14 at 1:03
$begingroup$
Unfortunately I answered too hastily and this approach is wrong! I apologize. I believe Ross' answer is correct. For $T_{3}$ the integral would be $int_{0}^{1}int_{0}^{1-z}int_{0}^{1-(y+z)}1 , mathrm{d} x , mathrm{d} y , mathrm{d} z$.
$endgroup$
– Ben Whitney
Apr 26 '14 at 1:14
1
$begingroup$
I have fixed my response, which is now a more fleshed out version of Ross'.
$endgroup$
– Ben Whitney
Apr 26 '14 at 1:26
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Try using induction. $T_{1}$ is just in the interval $[0,1]$, which has volume (length) $1$. $T_{2}$ is a right triangle with volume (area) $1/2$. Now imagine the case for $n=3$. When we slice the tetrahedron $T_{3}$ at some height $zin[0,1]$, we get a cross section that looks like $T_{2}$. But as $z$ gets bigger, the cross section gets smaller. Try to convince yourself that in general we have
$$
v(T_{n})=int_{0}^{1}(1-x)^{n-1}v(T_{n-1}),mathrm{d}x=frac{1}{n}v(T_{n-1})
$$
Then, using the fact that $v(T_{1})=1$, we have $v(T_{n})=1/n!$. Note that we scale by $(1-x)^{n-1}$ instead of by $1-x$ because it is the linear dimensions of the $T_{n-1}$ slice that scale by $1-x$, which translates to the $mathbb{R}^{n-1}$ volume of the slice scaling by $(1-x)^{n-1}$.
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
Thanks Ben! I have one question. Is there a way to solve this problem using triple integrals? and maybe a change of variables?
$endgroup$
– user145801
Apr 26 '14 at 1:03
$begingroup$
Unfortunately I answered too hastily and this approach is wrong! I apologize. I believe Ross' answer is correct. For $T_{3}$ the integral would be $int_{0}^{1}int_{0}^{1-z}int_{0}^{1-(y+z)}1 , mathrm{d} x , mathrm{d} y , mathrm{d} z$.
$endgroup$
– Ben Whitney
Apr 26 '14 at 1:14
1
$begingroup$
I have fixed my response, which is now a more fleshed out version of Ross'.
$endgroup$
– Ben Whitney
Apr 26 '14 at 1:26
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Try using induction. $T_{1}$ is just in the interval $[0,1]$, which has volume (length) $1$. $T_{2}$ is a right triangle with volume (area) $1/2$. Now imagine the case for $n=3$. When we slice the tetrahedron $T_{3}$ at some height $zin[0,1]$, we get a cross section that looks like $T_{2}$. But as $z$ gets bigger, the cross section gets smaller. Try to convince yourself that in general we have
$$
v(T_{n})=int_{0}^{1}(1-x)^{n-1}v(T_{n-1}),mathrm{d}x=frac{1}{n}v(T_{n-1})
$$
Then, using the fact that $v(T_{1})=1$, we have $v(T_{n})=1/n!$. Note that we scale by $(1-x)^{n-1}$ instead of by $1-x$ because it is the linear dimensions of the $T_{n-1}$ slice that scale by $1-x$, which translates to the $mathbb{R}^{n-1}$ volume of the slice scaling by $(1-x)^{n-1}$.
$endgroup$
Try using induction. $T_{1}$ is just in the interval $[0,1]$, which has volume (length) $1$. $T_{2}$ is a right triangle with volume (area) $1/2$. Now imagine the case for $n=3$. When we slice the tetrahedron $T_{3}$ at some height $zin[0,1]$, we get a cross section that looks like $T_{2}$. But as $z$ gets bigger, the cross section gets smaller. Try to convince yourself that in general we have
$$
v(T_{n})=int_{0}^{1}(1-x)^{n-1}v(T_{n-1}),mathrm{d}x=frac{1}{n}v(T_{n-1})
$$
Then, using the fact that $v(T_{1})=1$, we have $v(T_{n})=1/n!$. Note that we scale by $(1-x)^{n-1}$ instead of by $1-x$ because it is the linear dimensions of the $T_{n-1}$ slice that scale by $1-x$, which translates to the $mathbb{R}^{n-1}$ volume of the slice scaling by $(1-x)^{n-1}$.
edited Apr 26 '14 at 3:49
Alexander Gruber♦
20.1k25102172
20.1k25102172
answered Apr 26 '14 at 0:59
Ben WhitneyBen Whitney
697412
697412
$begingroup$
Thanks Ben! I have one question. Is there a way to solve this problem using triple integrals? and maybe a change of variables?
$endgroup$
– user145801
Apr 26 '14 at 1:03
$begingroup$
Unfortunately I answered too hastily and this approach is wrong! I apologize. I believe Ross' answer is correct. For $T_{3}$ the integral would be $int_{0}^{1}int_{0}^{1-z}int_{0}^{1-(y+z)}1 , mathrm{d} x , mathrm{d} y , mathrm{d} z$.
$endgroup$
– Ben Whitney
Apr 26 '14 at 1:14
1
$begingroup$
I have fixed my response, which is now a more fleshed out version of Ross'.
$endgroup$
– Ben Whitney
Apr 26 '14 at 1:26
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Thanks Ben! I have one question. Is there a way to solve this problem using triple integrals? and maybe a change of variables?
$endgroup$
– user145801
Apr 26 '14 at 1:03
$begingroup$
Unfortunately I answered too hastily and this approach is wrong! I apologize. I believe Ross' answer is correct. For $T_{3}$ the integral would be $int_{0}^{1}int_{0}^{1-z}int_{0}^{1-(y+z)}1 , mathrm{d} x , mathrm{d} y , mathrm{d} z$.
$endgroup$
– Ben Whitney
Apr 26 '14 at 1:14
1
$begingroup$
I have fixed my response, which is now a more fleshed out version of Ross'.
$endgroup$
– Ben Whitney
Apr 26 '14 at 1:26
$begingroup$
Thanks Ben! I have one question. Is there a way to solve this problem using triple integrals? and maybe a change of variables?
$endgroup$
– user145801
Apr 26 '14 at 1:03
$begingroup$
Thanks Ben! I have one question. Is there a way to solve this problem using triple integrals? and maybe a change of variables?
$endgroup$
– user145801
Apr 26 '14 at 1:03
$begingroup$
Unfortunately I answered too hastily and this approach is wrong! I apologize. I believe Ross' answer is correct. For $T_{3}$ the integral would be $int_{0}^{1}int_{0}^{1-z}int_{0}^{1-(y+z)}1 , mathrm{d} x , mathrm{d} y , mathrm{d} z$.
$endgroup$
– Ben Whitney
Apr 26 '14 at 1:14
$begingroup$
Unfortunately I answered too hastily and this approach is wrong! I apologize. I believe Ross' answer is correct. For $T_{3}$ the integral would be $int_{0}^{1}int_{0}^{1-z}int_{0}^{1-(y+z)}1 , mathrm{d} x , mathrm{d} y , mathrm{d} z$.
$endgroup$
– Ben Whitney
Apr 26 '14 at 1:14
1
1
$begingroup$
I have fixed my response, which is now a more fleshed out version of Ross'.
$endgroup$
– Ben Whitney
Apr 26 '14 at 1:26
$begingroup$
I have fixed my response, which is now a more fleshed out version of Ross'.
$endgroup$
– Ben Whitney
Apr 26 '14 at 1:26
add a comment |
Thanks for contributing an answer to Mathematics Stack Exchange!
- Please be sure to answer the question. Provide details and share your research!
But avoid …
- Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers.
- Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience.
Use MathJax to format equations. MathJax reference.
To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers.
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
StackExchange.ready(
function () {
StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fmath.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f769545%2fvolume-of-t-n-x-i-ge0x-1-cdotsx-n-le1%23new-answer', 'question_page');
}
);
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Sign up or log in
StackExchange.ready(function () {
StackExchange.helpers.onClickDraftSave('#login-link');
});
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Sign up using Google
Sign up using Facebook
Sign up using Email and Password
Post as a guest
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown
Required, but never shown