Can the Aztec Empire learn and reuse Conquistador technology?











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In this alternate history, Christopher Columbus makes landfall in Central America, after passing south of Florida and sailing through the Gulf of Mexico, arriving right on the doorstep of the Aztec Empire.



The First Contact goes badly and most of the expedition is slaughtered. The survivors are taken prisoner and the Aztecs salvage everything they can from Columbus' ships.



Could the Aztecs do something useful with this new technological knowledge; applying and reusing it for their gain, becoming the major power of the Americas and ending up sending their own expedition back to Spain?



In this alternate history, with no news of Columbus, Europe assumes that he is lost and nobody sends another expedition, deeming the very idea foolish. The European powers focus on Africa and Asia.



EDIT: To address some points:




  • I'm only dealing with Columbus first arrival. What happened after that in our history won't happen in this alternate version. Please don't answer with examples of later Conquistadors who came armed to the teeth or what happened when the conquest was in full swing.


  • This is part of the background of the alternate history that I want to make as believable and coherent with what we know of this time as possible, technology-wise. I'm not going to write the story of this alternate First Contact.


  • I'm well aware that what defeated the original civilizations of the Americas are the diseases brought by the Europeans, more than weapons or anything else. That's another fact that I'll deal with later.


  • The expedition that the Aztecs would send back to Spain isn't sent to conquer Spain and Europe, but merely to establish formal contact with the people from the other side of the ocean.











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  • Comments are not for extended discussion; this conversation has been moved to chat.
    – L.Dutch
    12 hours ago










  • "becoming the major power of the Americas and ending up sending their own expedition back to Spain?" So, that's two very different questions, there. It's one thing to build 3 ships capable of a trans-Atlantic voyage, it's quite another to become the dominant power in a continent or region. ... and for what it's worth, Spain in 1492 was not the dominant power in Europe, so why do the Aztecs need to become the dominant power in Mesoamerica with this captured technology?
    – HopelessN00b
    10 hours ago










  • IIRC, a basic problem is that the ship would have landed in the territory of one of the Aztec's subject peoples. They were not really fond of Aztec rule (human sacrifice tends to do that), which was a major factor in Cortez' later success. So it seems more likely that the technology, if it could be adopted successfully, would be used to overthrow the Aztecs.
    – jamesqf
    10 hours ago















up vote
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down vote

favorite
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In this alternate history, Christopher Columbus makes landfall in Central America, after passing south of Florida and sailing through the Gulf of Mexico, arriving right on the doorstep of the Aztec Empire.



The First Contact goes badly and most of the expedition is slaughtered. The survivors are taken prisoner and the Aztecs salvage everything they can from Columbus' ships.



Could the Aztecs do something useful with this new technological knowledge; applying and reusing it for their gain, becoming the major power of the Americas and ending up sending their own expedition back to Spain?



In this alternate history, with no news of Columbus, Europe assumes that he is lost and nobody sends another expedition, deeming the very idea foolish. The European powers focus on Africa and Asia.



EDIT: To address some points:




  • I'm only dealing with Columbus first arrival. What happened after that in our history won't happen in this alternate version. Please don't answer with examples of later Conquistadors who came armed to the teeth or what happened when the conquest was in full swing.


  • This is part of the background of the alternate history that I want to make as believable and coherent with what we know of this time as possible, technology-wise. I'm not going to write the story of this alternate First Contact.


  • I'm well aware that what defeated the original civilizations of the Americas are the diseases brought by the Europeans, more than weapons or anything else. That's another fact that I'll deal with later.


  • The expedition that the Aztecs would send back to Spain isn't sent to conquer Spain and Europe, but merely to establish formal contact with the people from the other side of the ocean.











share|improve this question
























  • Comments are not for extended discussion; this conversation has been moved to chat.
    – L.Dutch
    12 hours ago










  • "becoming the major power of the Americas and ending up sending their own expedition back to Spain?" So, that's two very different questions, there. It's one thing to build 3 ships capable of a trans-Atlantic voyage, it's quite another to become the dominant power in a continent or region. ... and for what it's worth, Spain in 1492 was not the dominant power in Europe, so why do the Aztecs need to become the dominant power in Mesoamerica with this captured technology?
    – HopelessN00b
    10 hours ago










  • IIRC, a basic problem is that the ship would have landed in the territory of one of the Aztec's subject peoples. They were not really fond of Aztec rule (human sacrifice tends to do that), which was a major factor in Cortez' later success. So it seems more likely that the technology, if it could be adopted successfully, would be used to overthrow the Aztecs.
    – jamesqf
    10 hours ago













up vote
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up vote
25
down vote

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2





In this alternate history, Christopher Columbus makes landfall in Central America, after passing south of Florida and sailing through the Gulf of Mexico, arriving right on the doorstep of the Aztec Empire.



The First Contact goes badly and most of the expedition is slaughtered. The survivors are taken prisoner and the Aztecs salvage everything they can from Columbus' ships.



Could the Aztecs do something useful with this new technological knowledge; applying and reusing it for their gain, becoming the major power of the Americas and ending up sending their own expedition back to Spain?



In this alternate history, with no news of Columbus, Europe assumes that he is lost and nobody sends another expedition, deeming the very idea foolish. The European powers focus on Africa and Asia.



EDIT: To address some points:




  • I'm only dealing with Columbus first arrival. What happened after that in our history won't happen in this alternate version. Please don't answer with examples of later Conquistadors who came armed to the teeth or what happened when the conquest was in full swing.


  • This is part of the background of the alternate history that I want to make as believable and coherent with what we know of this time as possible, technology-wise. I'm not going to write the story of this alternate First Contact.


  • I'm well aware that what defeated the original civilizations of the Americas are the diseases brought by the Europeans, more than weapons or anything else. That's another fact that I'll deal with later.


  • The expedition that the Aztecs would send back to Spain isn't sent to conquer Spain and Europe, but merely to establish formal contact with the people from the other side of the ocean.











share|improve this question















In this alternate history, Christopher Columbus makes landfall in Central America, after passing south of Florida and sailing through the Gulf of Mexico, arriving right on the doorstep of the Aztec Empire.



The First Contact goes badly and most of the expedition is slaughtered. The survivors are taken prisoner and the Aztecs salvage everything they can from Columbus' ships.



Could the Aztecs do something useful with this new technological knowledge; applying and reusing it for their gain, becoming the major power of the Americas and ending up sending their own expedition back to Spain?



In this alternate history, with no news of Columbus, Europe assumes that he is lost and nobody sends another expedition, deeming the very idea foolish. The European powers focus on Africa and Asia.



EDIT: To address some points:




  • I'm only dealing with Columbus first arrival. What happened after that in our history won't happen in this alternate version. Please don't answer with examples of later Conquistadors who came armed to the teeth or what happened when the conquest was in full swing.


  • This is part of the background of the alternate history that I want to make as believable and coherent with what we know of this time as possible, technology-wise. I'm not going to write the story of this alternate First Contact.


  • I'm well aware that what defeated the original civilizations of the Americas are the diseases brought by the Europeans, more than weapons or anything else. That's another fact that I'll deal with later.


  • The expedition that the Aztecs would send back to Spain isn't sent to conquer Spain and Europe, but merely to establish formal contact with the people from the other side of the ocean.








reality-check technology alternate-history






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edited yesterday









elemtilas

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asked yesterday









Sava

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  • Comments are not for extended discussion; this conversation has been moved to chat.
    – L.Dutch
    12 hours ago










  • "becoming the major power of the Americas and ending up sending their own expedition back to Spain?" So, that's two very different questions, there. It's one thing to build 3 ships capable of a trans-Atlantic voyage, it's quite another to become the dominant power in a continent or region. ... and for what it's worth, Spain in 1492 was not the dominant power in Europe, so why do the Aztecs need to become the dominant power in Mesoamerica with this captured technology?
    – HopelessN00b
    10 hours ago










  • IIRC, a basic problem is that the ship would have landed in the territory of one of the Aztec's subject peoples. They were not really fond of Aztec rule (human sacrifice tends to do that), which was a major factor in Cortez' later success. So it seems more likely that the technology, if it could be adopted successfully, would be used to overthrow the Aztecs.
    – jamesqf
    10 hours ago


















  • Comments are not for extended discussion; this conversation has been moved to chat.
    – L.Dutch
    12 hours ago










  • "becoming the major power of the Americas and ending up sending their own expedition back to Spain?" So, that's two very different questions, there. It's one thing to build 3 ships capable of a trans-Atlantic voyage, it's quite another to become the dominant power in a continent or region. ... and for what it's worth, Spain in 1492 was not the dominant power in Europe, so why do the Aztecs need to become the dominant power in Mesoamerica with this captured technology?
    – HopelessN00b
    10 hours ago










  • IIRC, a basic problem is that the ship would have landed in the territory of one of the Aztec's subject peoples. They were not really fond of Aztec rule (human sacrifice tends to do that), which was a major factor in Cortez' later success. So it seems more likely that the technology, if it could be adopted successfully, would be used to overthrow the Aztecs.
    – jamesqf
    10 hours ago
















Comments are not for extended discussion; this conversation has been moved to chat.
– L.Dutch
12 hours ago




Comments are not for extended discussion; this conversation has been moved to chat.
– L.Dutch
12 hours ago












"becoming the major power of the Americas and ending up sending their own expedition back to Spain?" So, that's two very different questions, there. It's one thing to build 3 ships capable of a trans-Atlantic voyage, it's quite another to become the dominant power in a continent or region. ... and for what it's worth, Spain in 1492 was not the dominant power in Europe, so why do the Aztecs need to become the dominant power in Mesoamerica with this captured technology?
– HopelessN00b
10 hours ago




"becoming the major power of the Americas and ending up sending their own expedition back to Spain?" So, that's two very different questions, there. It's one thing to build 3 ships capable of a trans-Atlantic voyage, it's quite another to become the dominant power in a continent or region. ... and for what it's worth, Spain in 1492 was not the dominant power in Europe, so why do the Aztecs need to become the dominant power in Mesoamerica with this captured technology?
– HopelessN00b
10 hours ago












IIRC, a basic problem is that the ship would have landed in the territory of one of the Aztec's subject peoples. They were not really fond of Aztec rule (human sacrifice tends to do that), which was a major factor in Cortez' later success. So it seems more likely that the technology, if it could be adopted successfully, would be used to overthrow the Aztecs.
– jamesqf
10 hours ago




IIRC, a basic problem is that the ship would have landed in the territory of one of the Aztec's subject peoples. They were not really fond of Aztec rule (human sacrifice tends to do that), which was a major factor in Cortez' later success. So it seems more likely that the technology, if it could be adopted successfully, would be used to overthrow the Aztecs.
– jamesqf
10 hours ago










10 Answers
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The steel technology is probably beyond them, given the processing steps they can never derive from sampling the finished article. Iron & steel would have been a reach.



Ship-building, on the other hand, is right there before them. They had wood, they could likely have reverse engineered ropes & canvas sails using native hemp. They could have gotten by, scaled down, with wood, sail, tar, dowels, copper & stone.



Artillery/musketry, forging technology dependent, would have been tough. Metal-working (mining/smelting especially) would clearly be the critical path. They would also still have to confront the epidemics from the Europeans which did inevitably decimate their population.






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  • 2




    This is like 5% of an answer. I don't disagree with anything, but I wonder a) how you came to your conclusions. b) how this is going to help them becoming a major power? My guess is that this is the result of 5 minutes of brain storming. There is nothing wrong with that, but if the OP can't do that themselves, they have to give up the project because there is no hope. I wrote a comment saying that a real answer needs to be basically a book so I don't blame you for not doing that, but perhaps consider offering a deeper insight into your points
    – Raditz_35
    yesterday








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    write a better one.
    – theRiley
    yesterday






  • 4




    Firearms, both cannon and arquebuses, were made of bronze in the time of the conquistadores. Iron guns came much later.
    – AlexP
    yesterday






  • 3




    @theRiley You are wrong. Sorry. A blacksmith specialises in working refined metal. At a stretch, he may have a working knowledge of bloomery or smelting, but he certainly isn't a prospector nor a miner.
    – Arkenstein XII
    yesterday






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    The list of people who sailed with Columbus does not include a blacksmith, only a silver smith.
    – Brythan
    yesterday


















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In order for the Aztec Empire to become a legitimate force in the international community, it would have needed massive structural reformation to reduce internal fractiousness and to build learning, finance, and other institutions needed to transition from a bronze-age kingdom to a middle-ages kingdom.



The Aztec society lacked organized advanced schooling in technology. They didn't have the scientific method. Any investigation would have been haphazard and lengthy before they figured out how to, for example, make steel and gunpowder... even with the help of prisoners (whose language was utterly unfamiliar).



More importantly, the Aztecs lacked institutions like banks and companies and associated knowledge like employment practices and good accounting. This prevented labor specialization, which keeps non-farmers eating while they work their way up a skills chain, open a shop, and figure out better and cheaper ways to find and smelt that ore.



In turn, this means that the Aztec-created weapons and ships would have been (relatively) more expensive and of poorer quality than they could have been.



Finally, the Aztec Empire was a delicate political entity - subject peoples like the Tlascalans rebelled at the first opportunity. It's reasonable to expect rivals to obtain these (relatively) advanced weapons also, perhaps triggering a series of crippling civil wars.



That's many decades of political, economic, and social changes that need to happen. and there may not be time for it -- somebody else will get the idea of let's-just-sail-there-and-cut-out-the-middlemen and discover the Americas within a decade or two...and return.






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  • 2




    There were very few advanced schools of technology in the XIV century. Maybe the School of Sagres in Portugal, the portuguese naval tech research center. European universities at this time were theology schools with alchemy, law and astrology classes. And none of the european (or turkish for the matter) schools used the scientific method as understood today, or even as understood in Newton's days.
    – Geronimo
    10 hours ago






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    @Geronimo true, and those rudimentary institutions, with their rudimentary studies, seem far ahead of anything that Bronze-age kingdoms could create or sustain.
    – user535733
    10 hours ago








  • 1




    If I remember correctly, a Portuguese ship got accidentally blown off course to Brazil within a few decades of Columbus' first voyage. So, once that happened, further voyages of discovery would probably have followed anyway.
    – Daniel Schepler
    9 hours ago






  • 1




    You could reword this as a technology answer; the shape government and society is technology too, but that isn't available from a handful of ships.
    – Yakk
    8 hours ago










  • I disagree that the medieval universities were beyond what bronze-age societies could support. Ancient Egypt had a permanent educational system to train their engeneers/bureucrats and, more relevant to the question, both the incas and aztecs had institutions, in their capitals, to provide the analogue to superior education, that was quite similar to western curriculum: aztec law, aztec theology, magic (astrology/alchemy/medicine) and some engeneering. Universities are note relevant to question, frankly.
    – Geronimo
    5 hours ago


















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As previously stated, sailing technology is the most easily assimilated technology that can be gleaned from the capture of Columbus' men.



However what has not been touched on is this: Mesoamerican peoples already had knowledge of bronze working prior to the arrival of Columbus, but the technology was exclusively used for the manufacture of ornamental items. Upon salvaging bronze cannon and arquebus from the captured ships, it could become apparent to the indigenous peoples that bronze can be useful for the manufacture of tools. Effectively kick-starting what would be recognisable to Eurasian eyes as a bronze-age.



If someone aboard the ships happened to know how to make gunpowder, it is possible that this knowledge plus bronze tools and sailing technology could result in a Mesoamerican maritime bronze-age empire who possess cannons.



Furthermore, many of the crewmembers of the ill-fated 1492 voyage were literate. There is a good chance that written language would be readily adopted by the Aztecs, which aids significantly in the administration of an Empire.






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  • 6




    By written language, you mean the use of an alphabet? Aztecs did have a writting system.
    – Pierre Arlaud
    19 hours ago






  • 3




    Copper and Gold working, using native metals, yes but not bronze and no known metal extraction technology that let them get usable material from ore.
    – Ash
    17 hours ago






  • 6




    Gunpowder was as useful for aztecs as wheels were for the incas: worthless. It almost took no part in the spanish conquest because of. In the extremely wet climate jungle - nothing like modern Mexico - gunpowder was extremely unreliable. Just one week after disembarking, Cortés had only two guns still in fire conditions - if the gunpowder was dry enough.
    – Rekesoft
    16 hours ago






  • 4




    Mesoamerican people were already well aware that metal could be used to make tools, this wouldn’t be new knowledge to them. You could write a book on the reasons why they didn't have more advanced metallurgy (and people have), but it’s much more involved than “they didn’t know better”. In all likelihood, the climate and terrain conspired against the development of advanced metalworking in the new world (metal being heavy, and much of South and Central America being rather punishing, terrain and climate-wise - why schlep a 10 pound sword 500 miles when a 2 pound club works almost as well?)
    – HopelessN00b
    15 hours ago










  • What "knowledge of bronze working"? Quotation needed. AFAIK the Aztecs were in the late stone age, with some knowledge of working metals which could be found in native state such as gold and silver. @HopelessN00b: There is no such thing as a 10 pound sword -- a 4 or 4.5 pound sword was a very heavy sword, a normal longsword was usually around 3 pounds.
    – AlexP
    11 hours ago




















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What technology could the European explorer have on board upon arrival which could be useful for a reverse expedition?





  • Gun powder: usually it was not produced in loco, but rather carried in barrels. I doubt knowledge of how to make it was common. Unlikely it could be transferred. Without this no way to learn usage of fire weapon. Also crafting fire weapons requires refined metallurgy, of the type hardly present on board.


  • Non fire weapons: for this I doubt that the weapons of an easily beaten group could make a great impression on the Emperor. However, it's possible that elementary knowledge of blacksmithing was in possession of part of the crew, as it was necessary at least to perform ordinary maintenance.


  • Ship making: wooden ships were easily damaged, and knowledge on how to fix them had to be present on board. Usually there was even a carpenter. Highly likely.


  • Navigation: learning how to maneuver a large ship was not something to be learned in few months. It required practice and dedication. But it is likely it could be taught. Using navigation instruments to determine the position was probably an art only known by the captain and the officials. This could also be transmitted.


Now, having established the technologies, we have to determine if the captive crew would agree to teach them to the indigenous. I have few doubts that a low level crew member would happily save his life in exchange of details on what he knows.



But the others, in possession of important knowledge, would probably evaluate the possibility of taking their secret in the grave. Those were times when maps with important secrets (like the location of newly discovered islands or trade route) were valued as state secret, and thus official were probably conscious of the risk behind disclosing such and similar secret. It would be a matter of using subtle social engineering to convince the prisoners to cooperate.



But I think that, before venturing into Europe, the Aztec would have probably devoted their attention to the rest of the American continent, which posed less risks than a transoceanic navigation.






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  • Why would gunpowder be a super secret? I mean, basic gunpowder is 15:3:2 saltpeter, charcoal, sulfer. Not exactly complex.
    – Yakk
    14 hours ago










  • Maps, sailing, medicine, food preservation. Its pretty much like giving columbus a smartphone and a modern teenager and reinventing the digital age.
    – anon
    11 hours ago






  • 2




    It doesn't have to be secret to be uncommon knowledge. You need to remember they didn't have google back then.
    – Ryan_L
    11 hours ago






  • 1




    @Yakk, could you tell without the internet or reference books how to find and refine saltpeter and sulfur? Or how to grind powder without an explosion in the powder mill?
    – o.m.
    7 hours ago










  • @Yakk, making gunpowder is more than just "pour 15 cups saltpeter, 3 cups charcoal, and 2 cups sulfur into a large bowl. Stir well." If you try to make gunpowder knowing only the proportions of the ingredients, the likely outcome is somewhere on the range from "blow yourself up" to "make something that emits a cloud of foul smoke" to "produce low-quality serpentine powder" at best. Producing a proper corned powder with a consistent grain size takes quite a bit of specialist knowledge.
    – Mark
    3 hours ago


















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Not exactly a technology, but if they had captured some Spanish horses they could use them to improve communication within their empire, expand their borders in Mesoamerica and be better prepared for the next wave of Europeans once they arrive. While the stories of Americans believing Europeans to be centaurs or gods because of horses are probably exaggerated, they did play a role in convincing some tribes to join the conquistadors and in intimidating the Aztec warriors.



Also as others mentioned sailing technology already, they could load horses on their ships and show up in Europe in style.






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Milo Bem is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
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  • Great idea, I don't know that Columbus had horses though (some of the later expeditions certainly did).
    – theinvisibleduck
    12 hours ago










  • according to this tuesdayshorse.wordpress.com/2012/10/08/… he had some on his second journey. not sure about the first, but you're already doing alternate history and it's not that big stretch, i think.
    – Milo Bem
    12 hours ago


















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The wood working, rope making and weaving technologies of Europe differed mainly in terms of scale, tools used, mechanisation, and standardisation rather than in matters of underlying technique so the Aztecs could almost certainly pick up the particulars necessary to build ships capable of crossing the Atlantic if they decided it was a priority.



Beyond that it depends a great deal on how much information the Aztecs could get from the crew about basic industrial chemistry, for example the recipe for gunpowder was not any great secret in Europe at the time. Nor were any number of other pieces of industrial chemistry like the extraction of iron, lead, copper, and tin, from various ores, or the proportions for making bronze, solder, pewter, and steel, things like amalgam and invar were still trade secrets though.



Whether any of the crew knew these things is a different matter though. I don't know the exact composition of the crew of the Santa Maria, Nina, and Pinto, if Columbus had ex-miners and/or foundry workers in the crew then many possibilities open up. They could identify ores in the field and the local pottery kilns would be sufficient to being scaled up for metal production, they could produce enough heat. Gunpowder can be made in the field, in a rough and ready rule of thumb way, using raw materials that aren't impossible to get in quantity in the Caribbean area, officers of any military force of the era should have known a couple of basic recipes for use in exigent circumstances.






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    up vote
    1
    down vote













    Yes, they can do that. But they would need wise emperor and something like culture shock. So your wise leader wins, but understands, that his people are ages behind in technology and that will mean end of his empire, should there be real war.



    He decides, Aztecs need change and fast. He uses bribes, titles, marriage and piles of gold or torture to get as much information and cooperation from captured Spanish. With said information and deep pockets of emperor, mining and metalworking grow by days. Carpenters try to build ever bigger ships. Soon all needed components of gunpowder are found and wisemen and priests labor day and night to perfect formula and start production.



    In few short years Empire is reborn and stronger.



    Problem is Spanish had little knowledge how to cure and prevent diseases. Maybe one of your priests would invent variolation to prevent smallpox, problem is they had no cows.. alternative animal? Dogs, cats, horses of Spanish.



    Invade Spain, that would have close to zero chance to have any good results. Spain would be too strong for them to invade alone and with help from other countries... They would only paint big target for crusade.






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      You can't reverse-engineer steel or gunpowder unless you can somehow capture manufacturing facilities which a typical conquistador did not carry with themselves. Those were conquerors relying on stock they brought from their homes. if they were up to mine iron ore or saltpetre, that might have pointed the Aztecs to the right direction, but as far as I can recall, those guys were only after precious metals, spices and such.






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      • 1




        They were in fact explorers looking for any resources that would compensate the royal family for their investment in the voyage. What particular skill sets they had along I don't know but a naturalist that can tell you you're holding silver ore can also point out iron ore, coal seams etc... and make saltpetre, probably gunpowder too.
        – Ash
        16 hours ago








      • 1




        @Ash We are talking about reverse engineering here. You can only reverse-engineer stuff you see working. You can't reverse engineer steel manufacturing without seeing a steel smelter working. The end product simply doesn't say anything about the process.
        – mg30rg
        16 hours ago










      • Given that the "survivors are taken prisoner" we're not just talking about reverse engineering.
        – Ash
        16 hours ago












      • @Ash Ok, I must have skipped that part. Althought I strongly doubt that any conquistador was such a renaissance-man to be able to create a usable smelthery with late stone- and early bronze age tools. But again, I might be wrong.
        – mg30rg
        16 hours ago










      • Depends what you want to smelt and how, pottery kilns can and do produce enough heat for bloomery iron and more than enough for lower temperature processes like copper and lead smelting. Blast furnaces or any other large-scale process I quite agree won't happen, not soon anyway, but small charcoal fired smelters aren't too hard to build, not the most efficient technology of the age, but workable.
        – Ash
        16 hours ago


















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      It would be very hard to salvage the naval tech. Shipbuilding demands the right trees and iron/bronze metallurgy to manufacture both the tools and the critical metal parts of a oceanfaring ship. And even if there was a blacksmith among the crew members you will have no iron because what you need is a miner that also knows prospection. Was there europeans that knew how to find virgin ore veins to mine in the XIV century? I don't know but I would bet there wasn't since most mines in Europe were old, ancient mining regions, some from the roman times, other slowly discovered during the middle ages. There was no science and art of finding good places for mining in Europe, geology is hundreds of years in the future. So, no iron.



      In the case of bronze you have to find a north american geology map that shows where is tin and where is copper and see if it was viable for the aztec to have access to both mineral resources at the same time. Most probably it wouldn't.






      share|improve this answer




























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        0
        down vote













        Not much



        Let's assume the best case for the Aztecs-they kill all of Columbus' crew, have all the hardware available for inspection, and contract no European diseases. Technology comes as a whole interrelated package. People say the Aztecs could have understood the ship technology. They probably could understand the construction, but not why the ships were designed as they were. As others have said, you can't understand how to make steel just by looking at it, so you can't steal the ship designs in the places steel was used to hold the ship together. They might realize gunpowder was what made the muskets work, but figuring out how to make gunpowder seems difficult. It might have made them use wheels for real work instead of just children's toys. There would clearly be an explosion in technology, but Europe was progressing as well.



        I can't imagine it taking more than a few decades before the next European ship came to the Americas. Magellan was only 30 years later and his crew sailed around the world. You can't have steel that fast, which means no useful guns. Gunpowder is not very useful without steel to contain it. The next few ships would have brought the diseases, so I suspect this scenario just delays the conquest of the Americas by a few decades.






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          10 Answers
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          10 Answers
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          up vote
          21
          down vote













          The steel technology is probably beyond them, given the processing steps they can never derive from sampling the finished article. Iron & steel would have been a reach.



          Ship-building, on the other hand, is right there before them. They had wood, they could likely have reverse engineered ropes & canvas sails using native hemp. They could have gotten by, scaled down, with wood, sail, tar, dowels, copper & stone.



          Artillery/musketry, forging technology dependent, would have been tough. Metal-working (mining/smelting especially) would clearly be the critical path. They would also still have to confront the epidemics from the Europeans which did inevitably decimate their population.






          share|improve this answer



















          • 2




            This is like 5% of an answer. I don't disagree with anything, but I wonder a) how you came to your conclusions. b) how this is going to help them becoming a major power? My guess is that this is the result of 5 minutes of brain storming. There is nothing wrong with that, but if the OP can't do that themselves, they have to give up the project because there is no hope. I wrote a comment saying that a real answer needs to be basically a book so I don't blame you for not doing that, but perhaps consider offering a deeper insight into your points
            – Raditz_35
            yesterday








          • 27




            write a better one.
            – theRiley
            yesterday






          • 4




            Firearms, both cannon and arquebuses, were made of bronze in the time of the conquistadores. Iron guns came much later.
            – AlexP
            yesterday






          • 3




            @theRiley You are wrong. Sorry. A blacksmith specialises in working refined metal. At a stretch, he may have a working knowledge of bloomery or smelting, but he certainly isn't a prospector nor a miner.
            – Arkenstein XII
            yesterday






          • 4




            The list of people who sailed with Columbus does not include a blacksmith, only a silver smith.
            – Brythan
            yesterday















          up vote
          21
          down vote













          The steel technology is probably beyond them, given the processing steps they can never derive from sampling the finished article. Iron & steel would have been a reach.



          Ship-building, on the other hand, is right there before them. They had wood, they could likely have reverse engineered ropes & canvas sails using native hemp. They could have gotten by, scaled down, with wood, sail, tar, dowels, copper & stone.



          Artillery/musketry, forging technology dependent, would have been tough. Metal-working (mining/smelting especially) would clearly be the critical path. They would also still have to confront the epidemics from the Europeans which did inevitably decimate their population.






          share|improve this answer



















          • 2




            This is like 5% of an answer. I don't disagree with anything, but I wonder a) how you came to your conclusions. b) how this is going to help them becoming a major power? My guess is that this is the result of 5 minutes of brain storming. There is nothing wrong with that, but if the OP can't do that themselves, they have to give up the project because there is no hope. I wrote a comment saying that a real answer needs to be basically a book so I don't blame you for not doing that, but perhaps consider offering a deeper insight into your points
            – Raditz_35
            yesterday








          • 27




            write a better one.
            – theRiley
            yesterday






          • 4




            Firearms, both cannon and arquebuses, were made of bronze in the time of the conquistadores. Iron guns came much later.
            – AlexP
            yesterday






          • 3




            @theRiley You are wrong. Sorry. A blacksmith specialises in working refined metal. At a stretch, he may have a working knowledge of bloomery or smelting, but he certainly isn't a prospector nor a miner.
            – Arkenstein XII
            yesterday






          • 4




            The list of people who sailed with Columbus does not include a blacksmith, only a silver smith.
            – Brythan
            yesterday













          up vote
          21
          down vote










          up vote
          21
          down vote









          The steel technology is probably beyond them, given the processing steps they can never derive from sampling the finished article. Iron & steel would have been a reach.



          Ship-building, on the other hand, is right there before them. They had wood, they could likely have reverse engineered ropes & canvas sails using native hemp. They could have gotten by, scaled down, with wood, sail, tar, dowels, copper & stone.



          Artillery/musketry, forging technology dependent, would have been tough. Metal-working (mining/smelting especially) would clearly be the critical path. They would also still have to confront the epidemics from the Europeans which did inevitably decimate their population.






          share|improve this answer














          The steel technology is probably beyond them, given the processing steps they can never derive from sampling the finished article. Iron & steel would have been a reach.



          Ship-building, on the other hand, is right there before them. They had wood, they could likely have reverse engineered ropes & canvas sails using native hemp. They could have gotten by, scaled down, with wood, sail, tar, dowels, copper & stone.



          Artillery/musketry, forging technology dependent, would have been tough. Metal-working (mining/smelting especially) would clearly be the critical path. They would also still have to confront the epidemics from the Europeans which did inevitably decimate their population.







          share|improve this answer














          share|improve this answer



          share|improve this answer








          edited 10 hours ago

























          answered yesterday









          theRiley

          1,42714




          1,42714








          • 2




            This is like 5% of an answer. I don't disagree with anything, but I wonder a) how you came to your conclusions. b) how this is going to help them becoming a major power? My guess is that this is the result of 5 minutes of brain storming. There is nothing wrong with that, but if the OP can't do that themselves, they have to give up the project because there is no hope. I wrote a comment saying that a real answer needs to be basically a book so I don't blame you for not doing that, but perhaps consider offering a deeper insight into your points
            – Raditz_35
            yesterday








          • 27




            write a better one.
            – theRiley
            yesterday






          • 4




            Firearms, both cannon and arquebuses, were made of bronze in the time of the conquistadores. Iron guns came much later.
            – AlexP
            yesterday






          • 3




            @theRiley You are wrong. Sorry. A blacksmith specialises in working refined metal. At a stretch, he may have a working knowledge of bloomery or smelting, but he certainly isn't a prospector nor a miner.
            – Arkenstein XII
            yesterday






          • 4




            The list of people who sailed with Columbus does not include a blacksmith, only a silver smith.
            – Brythan
            yesterday














          • 2




            This is like 5% of an answer. I don't disagree with anything, but I wonder a) how you came to your conclusions. b) how this is going to help them becoming a major power? My guess is that this is the result of 5 minutes of brain storming. There is nothing wrong with that, but if the OP can't do that themselves, they have to give up the project because there is no hope. I wrote a comment saying that a real answer needs to be basically a book so I don't blame you for not doing that, but perhaps consider offering a deeper insight into your points
            – Raditz_35
            yesterday








          • 27




            write a better one.
            – theRiley
            yesterday






          • 4




            Firearms, both cannon and arquebuses, were made of bronze in the time of the conquistadores. Iron guns came much later.
            – AlexP
            yesterday






          • 3




            @theRiley You are wrong. Sorry. A blacksmith specialises in working refined metal. At a stretch, he may have a working knowledge of bloomery or smelting, but he certainly isn't a prospector nor a miner.
            – Arkenstein XII
            yesterday






          • 4




            The list of people who sailed with Columbus does not include a blacksmith, only a silver smith.
            – Brythan
            yesterday








          2




          2




          This is like 5% of an answer. I don't disagree with anything, but I wonder a) how you came to your conclusions. b) how this is going to help them becoming a major power? My guess is that this is the result of 5 minutes of brain storming. There is nothing wrong with that, but if the OP can't do that themselves, they have to give up the project because there is no hope. I wrote a comment saying that a real answer needs to be basically a book so I don't blame you for not doing that, but perhaps consider offering a deeper insight into your points
          – Raditz_35
          yesterday






          This is like 5% of an answer. I don't disagree with anything, but I wonder a) how you came to your conclusions. b) how this is going to help them becoming a major power? My guess is that this is the result of 5 minutes of brain storming. There is nothing wrong with that, but if the OP can't do that themselves, they have to give up the project because there is no hope. I wrote a comment saying that a real answer needs to be basically a book so I don't blame you for not doing that, but perhaps consider offering a deeper insight into your points
          – Raditz_35
          yesterday






          27




          27




          write a better one.
          – theRiley
          yesterday




          write a better one.
          – theRiley
          yesterday




          4




          4




          Firearms, both cannon and arquebuses, were made of bronze in the time of the conquistadores. Iron guns came much later.
          – AlexP
          yesterday




          Firearms, both cannon and arquebuses, were made of bronze in the time of the conquistadores. Iron guns came much later.
          – AlexP
          yesterday




          3




          3




          @theRiley You are wrong. Sorry. A blacksmith specialises in working refined metal. At a stretch, he may have a working knowledge of bloomery or smelting, but he certainly isn't a prospector nor a miner.
          – Arkenstein XII
          yesterday




          @theRiley You are wrong. Sorry. A blacksmith specialises in working refined metal. At a stretch, he may have a working knowledge of bloomery or smelting, but he certainly isn't a prospector nor a miner.
          – Arkenstein XII
          yesterday




          4




          4




          The list of people who sailed with Columbus does not include a blacksmith, only a silver smith.
          – Brythan
          yesterday




          The list of people who sailed with Columbus does not include a blacksmith, only a silver smith.
          – Brythan
          yesterday










          up vote
          18
          down vote













          In order for the Aztec Empire to become a legitimate force in the international community, it would have needed massive structural reformation to reduce internal fractiousness and to build learning, finance, and other institutions needed to transition from a bronze-age kingdom to a middle-ages kingdom.



          The Aztec society lacked organized advanced schooling in technology. They didn't have the scientific method. Any investigation would have been haphazard and lengthy before they figured out how to, for example, make steel and gunpowder... even with the help of prisoners (whose language was utterly unfamiliar).



          More importantly, the Aztecs lacked institutions like banks and companies and associated knowledge like employment practices and good accounting. This prevented labor specialization, which keeps non-farmers eating while they work their way up a skills chain, open a shop, and figure out better and cheaper ways to find and smelt that ore.



          In turn, this means that the Aztec-created weapons and ships would have been (relatively) more expensive and of poorer quality than they could have been.



          Finally, the Aztec Empire was a delicate political entity - subject peoples like the Tlascalans rebelled at the first opportunity. It's reasonable to expect rivals to obtain these (relatively) advanced weapons also, perhaps triggering a series of crippling civil wars.



          That's many decades of political, economic, and social changes that need to happen. and there may not be time for it -- somebody else will get the idea of let's-just-sail-there-and-cut-out-the-middlemen and discover the Americas within a decade or two...and return.






          share|improve this answer



















          • 2




            There were very few advanced schools of technology in the XIV century. Maybe the School of Sagres in Portugal, the portuguese naval tech research center. European universities at this time were theology schools with alchemy, law and astrology classes. And none of the european (or turkish for the matter) schools used the scientific method as understood today, or even as understood in Newton's days.
            – Geronimo
            10 hours ago






          • 1




            @Geronimo true, and those rudimentary institutions, with their rudimentary studies, seem far ahead of anything that Bronze-age kingdoms could create or sustain.
            – user535733
            10 hours ago








          • 1




            If I remember correctly, a Portuguese ship got accidentally blown off course to Brazil within a few decades of Columbus' first voyage. So, once that happened, further voyages of discovery would probably have followed anyway.
            – Daniel Schepler
            9 hours ago






          • 1




            You could reword this as a technology answer; the shape government and society is technology too, but that isn't available from a handful of ships.
            – Yakk
            8 hours ago










          • I disagree that the medieval universities were beyond what bronze-age societies could support. Ancient Egypt had a permanent educational system to train their engeneers/bureucrats and, more relevant to the question, both the incas and aztecs had institutions, in their capitals, to provide the analogue to superior education, that was quite similar to western curriculum: aztec law, aztec theology, magic (astrology/alchemy/medicine) and some engeneering. Universities are note relevant to question, frankly.
            – Geronimo
            5 hours ago















          up vote
          18
          down vote













          In order for the Aztec Empire to become a legitimate force in the international community, it would have needed massive structural reformation to reduce internal fractiousness and to build learning, finance, and other institutions needed to transition from a bronze-age kingdom to a middle-ages kingdom.



          The Aztec society lacked organized advanced schooling in technology. They didn't have the scientific method. Any investigation would have been haphazard and lengthy before they figured out how to, for example, make steel and gunpowder... even with the help of prisoners (whose language was utterly unfamiliar).



          More importantly, the Aztecs lacked institutions like banks and companies and associated knowledge like employment practices and good accounting. This prevented labor specialization, which keeps non-farmers eating while they work their way up a skills chain, open a shop, and figure out better and cheaper ways to find and smelt that ore.



          In turn, this means that the Aztec-created weapons and ships would have been (relatively) more expensive and of poorer quality than they could have been.



          Finally, the Aztec Empire was a delicate political entity - subject peoples like the Tlascalans rebelled at the first opportunity. It's reasonable to expect rivals to obtain these (relatively) advanced weapons also, perhaps triggering a series of crippling civil wars.



          That's many decades of political, economic, and social changes that need to happen. and there may not be time for it -- somebody else will get the idea of let's-just-sail-there-and-cut-out-the-middlemen and discover the Americas within a decade or two...and return.






          share|improve this answer



















          • 2




            There were very few advanced schools of technology in the XIV century. Maybe the School of Sagres in Portugal, the portuguese naval tech research center. European universities at this time were theology schools with alchemy, law and astrology classes. And none of the european (or turkish for the matter) schools used the scientific method as understood today, or even as understood in Newton's days.
            – Geronimo
            10 hours ago






          • 1




            @Geronimo true, and those rudimentary institutions, with their rudimentary studies, seem far ahead of anything that Bronze-age kingdoms could create or sustain.
            – user535733
            10 hours ago








          • 1




            If I remember correctly, a Portuguese ship got accidentally blown off course to Brazil within a few decades of Columbus' first voyage. So, once that happened, further voyages of discovery would probably have followed anyway.
            – Daniel Schepler
            9 hours ago






          • 1




            You could reword this as a technology answer; the shape government and society is technology too, but that isn't available from a handful of ships.
            – Yakk
            8 hours ago










          • I disagree that the medieval universities were beyond what bronze-age societies could support. Ancient Egypt had a permanent educational system to train their engeneers/bureucrats and, more relevant to the question, both the incas and aztecs had institutions, in their capitals, to provide the analogue to superior education, that was quite similar to western curriculum: aztec law, aztec theology, magic (astrology/alchemy/medicine) and some engeneering. Universities are note relevant to question, frankly.
            – Geronimo
            5 hours ago













          up vote
          18
          down vote










          up vote
          18
          down vote









          In order for the Aztec Empire to become a legitimate force in the international community, it would have needed massive structural reformation to reduce internal fractiousness and to build learning, finance, and other institutions needed to transition from a bronze-age kingdom to a middle-ages kingdom.



          The Aztec society lacked organized advanced schooling in technology. They didn't have the scientific method. Any investigation would have been haphazard and lengthy before they figured out how to, for example, make steel and gunpowder... even with the help of prisoners (whose language was utterly unfamiliar).



          More importantly, the Aztecs lacked institutions like banks and companies and associated knowledge like employment practices and good accounting. This prevented labor specialization, which keeps non-farmers eating while they work their way up a skills chain, open a shop, and figure out better and cheaper ways to find and smelt that ore.



          In turn, this means that the Aztec-created weapons and ships would have been (relatively) more expensive and of poorer quality than they could have been.



          Finally, the Aztec Empire was a delicate political entity - subject peoples like the Tlascalans rebelled at the first opportunity. It's reasonable to expect rivals to obtain these (relatively) advanced weapons also, perhaps triggering a series of crippling civil wars.



          That's many decades of political, economic, and social changes that need to happen. and there may not be time for it -- somebody else will get the idea of let's-just-sail-there-and-cut-out-the-middlemen and discover the Americas within a decade or two...and return.






          share|improve this answer














          In order for the Aztec Empire to become a legitimate force in the international community, it would have needed massive structural reformation to reduce internal fractiousness and to build learning, finance, and other institutions needed to transition from a bronze-age kingdom to a middle-ages kingdom.



          The Aztec society lacked organized advanced schooling in technology. They didn't have the scientific method. Any investigation would have been haphazard and lengthy before they figured out how to, for example, make steel and gunpowder... even with the help of prisoners (whose language was utterly unfamiliar).



          More importantly, the Aztecs lacked institutions like banks and companies and associated knowledge like employment practices and good accounting. This prevented labor specialization, which keeps non-farmers eating while they work their way up a skills chain, open a shop, and figure out better and cheaper ways to find and smelt that ore.



          In turn, this means that the Aztec-created weapons and ships would have been (relatively) more expensive and of poorer quality than they could have been.



          Finally, the Aztec Empire was a delicate political entity - subject peoples like the Tlascalans rebelled at the first opportunity. It's reasonable to expect rivals to obtain these (relatively) advanced weapons also, perhaps triggering a series of crippling civil wars.



          That's many decades of political, economic, and social changes that need to happen. and there may not be time for it -- somebody else will get the idea of let's-just-sail-there-and-cut-out-the-middlemen and discover the Americas within a decade or two...and return.







          share|improve this answer














          share|improve this answer



          share|improve this answer








          edited yesterday









          Sava

          1,096316




          1,096316










          answered yesterday









          user535733

          6,1951229




          6,1951229








          • 2




            There were very few advanced schools of technology in the XIV century. Maybe the School of Sagres in Portugal, the portuguese naval tech research center. European universities at this time were theology schools with alchemy, law and astrology classes. And none of the european (or turkish for the matter) schools used the scientific method as understood today, or even as understood in Newton's days.
            – Geronimo
            10 hours ago






          • 1




            @Geronimo true, and those rudimentary institutions, with their rudimentary studies, seem far ahead of anything that Bronze-age kingdoms could create or sustain.
            – user535733
            10 hours ago








          • 1




            If I remember correctly, a Portuguese ship got accidentally blown off course to Brazil within a few decades of Columbus' first voyage. So, once that happened, further voyages of discovery would probably have followed anyway.
            – Daniel Schepler
            9 hours ago






          • 1




            You could reword this as a technology answer; the shape government and society is technology too, but that isn't available from a handful of ships.
            – Yakk
            8 hours ago










          • I disagree that the medieval universities were beyond what bronze-age societies could support. Ancient Egypt had a permanent educational system to train their engeneers/bureucrats and, more relevant to the question, both the incas and aztecs had institutions, in their capitals, to provide the analogue to superior education, that was quite similar to western curriculum: aztec law, aztec theology, magic (astrology/alchemy/medicine) and some engeneering. Universities are note relevant to question, frankly.
            – Geronimo
            5 hours ago














          • 2




            There were very few advanced schools of technology in the XIV century. Maybe the School of Sagres in Portugal, the portuguese naval tech research center. European universities at this time were theology schools with alchemy, law and astrology classes. And none of the european (or turkish for the matter) schools used the scientific method as understood today, or even as understood in Newton's days.
            – Geronimo
            10 hours ago






          • 1




            @Geronimo true, and those rudimentary institutions, with their rudimentary studies, seem far ahead of anything that Bronze-age kingdoms could create or sustain.
            – user535733
            10 hours ago








          • 1




            If I remember correctly, a Portuguese ship got accidentally blown off course to Brazil within a few decades of Columbus' first voyage. So, once that happened, further voyages of discovery would probably have followed anyway.
            – Daniel Schepler
            9 hours ago






          • 1




            You could reword this as a technology answer; the shape government and society is technology too, but that isn't available from a handful of ships.
            – Yakk
            8 hours ago










          • I disagree that the medieval universities were beyond what bronze-age societies could support. Ancient Egypt had a permanent educational system to train their engeneers/bureucrats and, more relevant to the question, both the incas and aztecs had institutions, in their capitals, to provide the analogue to superior education, that was quite similar to western curriculum: aztec law, aztec theology, magic (astrology/alchemy/medicine) and some engeneering. Universities are note relevant to question, frankly.
            – Geronimo
            5 hours ago








          2




          2




          There were very few advanced schools of technology in the XIV century. Maybe the School of Sagres in Portugal, the portuguese naval tech research center. European universities at this time were theology schools with alchemy, law and astrology classes. And none of the european (or turkish for the matter) schools used the scientific method as understood today, or even as understood in Newton's days.
          – Geronimo
          10 hours ago




          There were very few advanced schools of technology in the XIV century. Maybe the School of Sagres in Portugal, the portuguese naval tech research center. European universities at this time were theology schools with alchemy, law and astrology classes. And none of the european (or turkish for the matter) schools used the scientific method as understood today, or even as understood in Newton's days.
          – Geronimo
          10 hours ago




          1




          1




          @Geronimo true, and those rudimentary institutions, with their rudimentary studies, seem far ahead of anything that Bronze-age kingdoms could create or sustain.
          – user535733
          10 hours ago






          @Geronimo true, and those rudimentary institutions, with their rudimentary studies, seem far ahead of anything that Bronze-age kingdoms could create or sustain.
          – user535733
          10 hours ago






          1




          1




          If I remember correctly, a Portuguese ship got accidentally blown off course to Brazil within a few decades of Columbus' first voyage. So, once that happened, further voyages of discovery would probably have followed anyway.
          – Daniel Schepler
          9 hours ago




          If I remember correctly, a Portuguese ship got accidentally blown off course to Brazil within a few decades of Columbus' first voyage. So, once that happened, further voyages of discovery would probably have followed anyway.
          – Daniel Schepler
          9 hours ago




          1




          1




          You could reword this as a technology answer; the shape government and society is technology too, but that isn't available from a handful of ships.
          – Yakk
          8 hours ago




          You could reword this as a technology answer; the shape government and society is technology too, but that isn't available from a handful of ships.
          – Yakk
          8 hours ago












          I disagree that the medieval universities were beyond what bronze-age societies could support. Ancient Egypt had a permanent educational system to train their engeneers/bureucrats and, more relevant to the question, both the incas and aztecs had institutions, in their capitals, to provide the analogue to superior education, that was quite similar to western curriculum: aztec law, aztec theology, magic (astrology/alchemy/medicine) and some engeneering. Universities are note relevant to question, frankly.
          – Geronimo
          5 hours ago




          I disagree that the medieval universities were beyond what bronze-age societies could support. Ancient Egypt had a permanent educational system to train their engeneers/bureucrats and, more relevant to the question, both the incas and aztecs had institutions, in their capitals, to provide the analogue to superior education, that was quite similar to western curriculum: aztec law, aztec theology, magic (astrology/alchemy/medicine) and some engeneering. Universities are note relevant to question, frankly.
          – Geronimo
          5 hours ago










          up vote
          15
          down vote













          As previously stated, sailing technology is the most easily assimilated technology that can be gleaned from the capture of Columbus' men.



          However what has not been touched on is this: Mesoamerican peoples already had knowledge of bronze working prior to the arrival of Columbus, but the technology was exclusively used for the manufacture of ornamental items. Upon salvaging bronze cannon and arquebus from the captured ships, it could become apparent to the indigenous peoples that bronze can be useful for the manufacture of tools. Effectively kick-starting what would be recognisable to Eurasian eyes as a bronze-age.



          If someone aboard the ships happened to know how to make gunpowder, it is possible that this knowledge plus bronze tools and sailing technology could result in a Mesoamerican maritime bronze-age empire who possess cannons.



          Furthermore, many of the crewmembers of the ill-fated 1492 voyage were literate. There is a good chance that written language would be readily adopted by the Aztecs, which aids significantly in the administration of an Empire.






          share|improve this answer



















          • 6




            By written language, you mean the use of an alphabet? Aztecs did have a writting system.
            – Pierre Arlaud
            19 hours ago






          • 3




            Copper and Gold working, using native metals, yes but not bronze and no known metal extraction technology that let them get usable material from ore.
            – Ash
            17 hours ago






          • 6




            Gunpowder was as useful for aztecs as wheels were for the incas: worthless. It almost took no part in the spanish conquest because of. In the extremely wet climate jungle - nothing like modern Mexico - gunpowder was extremely unreliable. Just one week after disembarking, Cortés had only two guns still in fire conditions - if the gunpowder was dry enough.
            – Rekesoft
            16 hours ago






          • 4




            Mesoamerican people were already well aware that metal could be used to make tools, this wouldn’t be new knowledge to them. You could write a book on the reasons why they didn't have more advanced metallurgy (and people have), but it’s much more involved than “they didn’t know better”. In all likelihood, the climate and terrain conspired against the development of advanced metalworking in the new world (metal being heavy, and much of South and Central America being rather punishing, terrain and climate-wise - why schlep a 10 pound sword 500 miles when a 2 pound club works almost as well?)
            – HopelessN00b
            15 hours ago










          • What "knowledge of bronze working"? Quotation needed. AFAIK the Aztecs were in the late stone age, with some knowledge of working metals which could be found in native state such as gold and silver. @HopelessN00b: There is no such thing as a 10 pound sword -- a 4 or 4.5 pound sword was a very heavy sword, a normal longsword was usually around 3 pounds.
            – AlexP
            11 hours ago

















          up vote
          15
          down vote













          As previously stated, sailing technology is the most easily assimilated technology that can be gleaned from the capture of Columbus' men.



          However what has not been touched on is this: Mesoamerican peoples already had knowledge of bronze working prior to the arrival of Columbus, but the technology was exclusively used for the manufacture of ornamental items. Upon salvaging bronze cannon and arquebus from the captured ships, it could become apparent to the indigenous peoples that bronze can be useful for the manufacture of tools. Effectively kick-starting what would be recognisable to Eurasian eyes as a bronze-age.



          If someone aboard the ships happened to know how to make gunpowder, it is possible that this knowledge plus bronze tools and sailing technology could result in a Mesoamerican maritime bronze-age empire who possess cannons.



          Furthermore, many of the crewmembers of the ill-fated 1492 voyage were literate. There is a good chance that written language would be readily adopted by the Aztecs, which aids significantly in the administration of an Empire.






          share|improve this answer



















          • 6




            By written language, you mean the use of an alphabet? Aztecs did have a writting system.
            – Pierre Arlaud
            19 hours ago






          • 3




            Copper and Gold working, using native metals, yes but not bronze and no known metal extraction technology that let them get usable material from ore.
            – Ash
            17 hours ago






          • 6




            Gunpowder was as useful for aztecs as wheels were for the incas: worthless. It almost took no part in the spanish conquest because of. In the extremely wet climate jungle - nothing like modern Mexico - gunpowder was extremely unreliable. Just one week after disembarking, Cortés had only two guns still in fire conditions - if the gunpowder was dry enough.
            – Rekesoft
            16 hours ago






          • 4




            Mesoamerican people were already well aware that metal could be used to make tools, this wouldn’t be new knowledge to them. You could write a book on the reasons why they didn't have more advanced metallurgy (and people have), but it’s much more involved than “they didn’t know better”. In all likelihood, the climate and terrain conspired against the development of advanced metalworking in the new world (metal being heavy, and much of South and Central America being rather punishing, terrain and climate-wise - why schlep a 10 pound sword 500 miles when a 2 pound club works almost as well?)
            – HopelessN00b
            15 hours ago










          • What "knowledge of bronze working"? Quotation needed. AFAIK the Aztecs were in the late stone age, with some knowledge of working metals which could be found in native state such as gold and silver. @HopelessN00b: There is no such thing as a 10 pound sword -- a 4 or 4.5 pound sword was a very heavy sword, a normal longsword was usually around 3 pounds.
            – AlexP
            11 hours ago















          up vote
          15
          down vote










          up vote
          15
          down vote









          As previously stated, sailing technology is the most easily assimilated technology that can be gleaned from the capture of Columbus' men.



          However what has not been touched on is this: Mesoamerican peoples already had knowledge of bronze working prior to the arrival of Columbus, but the technology was exclusively used for the manufacture of ornamental items. Upon salvaging bronze cannon and arquebus from the captured ships, it could become apparent to the indigenous peoples that bronze can be useful for the manufacture of tools. Effectively kick-starting what would be recognisable to Eurasian eyes as a bronze-age.



          If someone aboard the ships happened to know how to make gunpowder, it is possible that this knowledge plus bronze tools and sailing technology could result in a Mesoamerican maritime bronze-age empire who possess cannons.



          Furthermore, many of the crewmembers of the ill-fated 1492 voyage were literate. There is a good chance that written language would be readily adopted by the Aztecs, which aids significantly in the administration of an Empire.






          share|improve this answer














          As previously stated, sailing technology is the most easily assimilated technology that can be gleaned from the capture of Columbus' men.



          However what has not been touched on is this: Mesoamerican peoples already had knowledge of bronze working prior to the arrival of Columbus, but the technology was exclusively used for the manufacture of ornamental items. Upon salvaging bronze cannon and arquebus from the captured ships, it could become apparent to the indigenous peoples that bronze can be useful for the manufacture of tools. Effectively kick-starting what would be recognisable to Eurasian eyes as a bronze-age.



          If someone aboard the ships happened to know how to make gunpowder, it is possible that this knowledge plus bronze tools and sailing technology could result in a Mesoamerican maritime bronze-age empire who possess cannons.



          Furthermore, many of the crewmembers of the ill-fated 1492 voyage were literate. There is a good chance that written language would be readily adopted by the Aztecs, which aids significantly in the administration of an Empire.







          share|improve this answer














          share|improve this answer



          share|improve this answer








          edited yesterday

























          answered yesterday









          Arkenstein XII

          1,431218




          1,431218








          • 6




            By written language, you mean the use of an alphabet? Aztecs did have a writting system.
            – Pierre Arlaud
            19 hours ago






          • 3




            Copper and Gold working, using native metals, yes but not bronze and no known metal extraction technology that let them get usable material from ore.
            – Ash
            17 hours ago






          • 6




            Gunpowder was as useful for aztecs as wheels were for the incas: worthless. It almost took no part in the spanish conquest because of. In the extremely wet climate jungle - nothing like modern Mexico - gunpowder was extremely unreliable. Just one week after disembarking, Cortés had only two guns still in fire conditions - if the gunpowder was dry enough.
            – Rekesoft
            16 hours ago






          • 4




            Mesoamerican people were already well aware that metal could be used to make tools, this wouldn’t be new knowledge to them. You could write a book on the reasons why they didn't have more advanced metallurgy (and people have), but it’s much more involved than “they didn’t know better”. In all likelihood, the climate and terrain conspired against the development of advanced metalworking in the new world (metal being heavy, and much of South and Central America being rather punishing, terrain and climate-wise - why schlep a 10 pound sword 500 miles when a 2 pound club works almost as well?)
            – HopelessN00b
            15 hours ago










          • What "knowledge of bronze working"? Quotation needed. AFAIK the Aztecs were in the late stone age, with some knowledge of working metals which could be found in native state such as gold and silver. @HopelessN00b: There is no such thing as a 10 pound sword -- a 4 or 4.5 pound sword was a very heavy sword, a normal longsword was usually around 3 pounds.
            – AlexP
            11 hours ago
















          • 6




            By written language, you mean the use of an alphabet? Aztecs did have a writting system.
            – Pierre Arlaud
            19 hours ago






          • 3




            Copper and Gold working, using native metals, yes but not bronze and no known metal extraction technology that let them get usable material from ore.
            – Ash
            17 hours ago






          • 6




            Gunpowder was as useful for aztecs as wheels were for the incas: worthless. It almost took no part in the spanish conquest because of. In the extremely wet climate jungle - nothing like modern Mexico - gunpowder was extremely unreliable. Just one week after disembarking, Cortés had only two guns still in fire conditions - if the gunpowder was dry enough.
            – Rekesoft
            16 hours ago






          • 4




            Mesoamerican people were already well aware that metal could be used to make tools, this wouldn’t be new knowledge to them. You could write a book on the reasons why they didn't have more advanced metallurgy (and people have), but it’s much more involved than “they didn’t know better”. In all likelihood, the climate and terrain conspired against the development of advanced metalworking in the new world (metal being heavy, and much of South and Central America being rather punishing, terrain and climate-wise - why schlep a 10 pound sword 500 miles when a 2 pound club works almost as well?)
            – HopelessN00b
            15 hours ago










          • What "knowledge of bronze working"? Quotation needed. AFAIK the Aztecs were in the late stone age, with some knowledge of working metals which could be found in native state such as gold and silver. @HopelessN00b: There is no such thing as a 10 pound sword -- a 4 or 4.5 pound sword was a very heavy sword, a normal longsword was usually around 3 pounds.
            – AlexP
            11 hours ago










          6




          6




          By written language, you mean the use of an alphabet? Aztecs did have a writting system.
          – Pierre Arlaud
          19 hours ago




          By written language, you mean the use of an alphabet? Aztecs did have a writting system.
          – Pierre Arlaud
          19 hours ago




          3




          3




          Copper and Gold working, using native metals, yes but not bronze and no known metal extraction technology that let them get usable material from ore.
          – Ash
          17 hours ago




          Copper and Gold working, using native metals, yes but not bronze and no known metal extraction technology that let them get usable material from ore.
          – Ash
          17 hours ago




          6




          6




          Gunpowder was as useful for aztecs as wheels were for the incas: worthless. It almost took no part in the spanish conquest because of. In the extremely wet climate jungle - nothing like modern Mexico - gunpowder was extremely unreliable. Just one week after disembarking, Cortés had only two guns still in fire conditions - if the gunpowder was dry enough.
          – Rekesoft
          16 hours ago




          Gunpowder was as useful for aztecs as wheels were for the incas: worthless. It almost took no part in the spanish conquest because of. In the extremely wet climate jungle - nothing like modern Mexico - gunpowder was extremely unreliable. Just one week after disembarking, Cortés had only two guns still in fire conditions - if the gunpowder was dry enough.
          – Rekesoft
          16 hours ago




          4




          4




          Mesoamerican people were already well aware that metal could be used to make tools, this wouldn’t be new knowledge to them. You could write a book on the reasons why they didn't have more advanced metallurgy (and people have), but it’s much more involved than “they didn’t know better”. In all likelihood, the climate and terrain conspired against the development of advanced metalworking in the new world (metal being heavy, and much of South and Central America being rather punishing, terrain and climate-wise - why schlep a 10 pound sword 500 miles when a 2 pound club works almost as well?)
          – HopelessN00b
          15 hours ago




          Mesoamerican people were already well aware that metal could be used to make tools, this wouldn’t be new knowledge to them. You could write a book on the reasons why they didn't have more advanced metallurgy (and people have), but it’s much more involved than “they didn’t know better”. In all likelihood, the climate and terrain conspired against the development of advanced metalworking in the new world (metal being heavy, and much of South and Central America being rather punishing, terrain and climate-wise - why schlep a 10 pound sword 500 miles when a 2 pound club works almost as well?)
          – HopelessN00b
          15 hours ago












          What "knowledge of bronze working"? Quotation needed. AFAIK the Aztecs were in the late stone age, with some knowledge of working metals which could be found in native state such as gold and silver. @HopelessN00b: There is no such thing as a 10 pound sword -- a 4 or 4.5 pound sword was a very heavy sword, a normal longsword was usually around 3 pounds.
          – AlexP
          11 hours ago






          What "knowledge of bronze working"? Quotation needed. AFAIK the Aztecs were in the late stone age, with some knowledge of working metals which could be found in native state such as gold and silver. @HopelessN00b: There is no such thing as a 10 pound sword -- a 4 or 4.5 pound sword was a very heavy sword, a normal longsword was usually around 3 pounds.
          – AlexP
          11 hours ago












          up vote
          11
          down vote













          What technology could the European explorer have on board upon arrival which could be useful for a reverse expedition?





          • Gun powder: usually it was not produced in loco, but rather carried in barrels. I doubt knowledge of how to make it was common. Unlikely it could be transferred. Without this no way to learn usage of fire weapon. Also crafting fire weapons requires refined metallurgy, of the type hardly present on board.


          • Non fire weapons: for this I doubt that the weapons of an easily beaten group could make a great impression on the Emperor. However, it's possible that elementary knowledge of blacksmithing was in possession of part of the crew, as it was necessary at least to perform ordinary maintenance.


          • Ship making: wooden ships were easily damaged, and knowledge on how to fix them had to be present on board. Usually there was even a carpenter. Highly likely.


          • Navigation: learning how to maneuver a large ship was not something to be learned in few months. It required practice and dedication. But it is likely it could be taught. Using navigation instruments to determine the position was probably an art only known by the captain and the officials. This could also be transmitted.


          Now, having established the technologies, we have to determine if the captive crew would agree to teach them to the indigenous. I have few doubts that a low level crew member would happily save his life in exchange of details on what he knows.



          But the others, in possession of important knowledge, would probably evaluate the possibility of taking their secret in the grave. Those were times when maps with important secrets (like the location of newly discovered islands or trade route) were valued as state secret, and thus official were probably conscious of the risk behind disclosing such and similar secret. It would be a matter of using subtle social engineering to convince the prisoners to cooperate.



          But I think that, before venturing into Europe, the Aztec would have probably devoted their attention to the rest of the American continent, which posed less risks than a transoceanic navigation.






          share|improve this answer























          • Why would gunpowder be a super secret? I mean, basic gunpowder is 15:3:2 saltpeter, charcoal, sulfer. Not exactly complex.
            – Yakk
            14 hours ago










          • Maps, sailing, medicine, food preservation. Its pretty much like giving columbus a smartphone and a modern teenager and reinventing the digital age.
            – anon
            11 hours ago






          • 2




            It doesn't have to be secret to be uncommon knowledge. You need to remember they didn't have google back then.
            – Ryan_L
            11 hours ago






          • 1




            @Yakk, could you tell without the internet or reference books how to find and refine saltpeter and sulfur? Or how to grind powder without an explosion in the powder mill?
            – o.m.
            7 hours ago










          • @Yakk, making gunpowder is more than just "pour 15 cups saltpeter, 3 cups charcoal, and 2 cups sulfur into a large bowl. Stir well." If you try to make gunpowder knowing only the proportions of the ingredients, the likely outcome is somewhere on the range from "blow yourself up" to "make something that emits a cloud of foul smoke" to "produce low-quality serpentine powder" at best. Producing a proper corned powder with a consistent grain size takes quite a bit of specialist knowledge.
            – Mark
            3 hours ago















          up vote
          11
          down vote













          What technology could the European explorer have on board upon arrival which could be useful for a reverse expedition?





          • Gun powder: usually it was not produced in loco, but rather carried in barrels. I doubt knowledge of how to make it was common. Unlikely it could be transferred. Without this no way to learn usage of fire weapon. Also crafting fire weapons requires refined metallurgy, of the type hardly present on board.


          • Non fire weapons: for this I doubt that the weapons of an easily beaten group could make a great impression on the Emperor. However, it's possible that elementary knowledge of blacksmithing was in possession of part of the crew, as it was necessary at least to perform ordinary maintenance.


          • Ship making: wooden ships were easily damaged, and knowledge on how to fix them had to be present on board. Usually there was even a carpenter. Highly likely.


          • Navigation: learning how to maneuver a large ship was not something to be learned in few months. It required practice and dedication. But it is likely it could be taught. Using navigation instruments to determine the position was probably an art only known by the captain and the officials. This could also be transmitted.


          Now, having established the technologies, we have to determine if the captive crew would agree to teach them to the indigenous. I have few doubts that a low level crew member would happily save his life in exchange of details on what he knows.



          But the others, in possession of important knowledge, would probably evaluate the possibility of taking their secret in the grave. Those were times when maps with important secrets (like the location of newly discovered islands or trade route) were valued as state secret, and thus official were probably conscious of the risk behind disclosing such and similar secret. It would be a matter of using subtle social engineering to convince the prisoners to cooperate.



          But I think that, before venturing into Europe, the Aztec would have probably devoted their attention to the rest of the American continent, which posed less risks than a transoceanic navigation.






          share|improve this answer























          • Why would gunpowder be a super secret? I mean, basic gunpowder is 15:3:2 saltpeter, charcoal, sulfer. Not exactly complex.
            – Yakk
            14 hours ago










          • Maps, sailing, medicine, food preservation. Its pretty much like giving columbus a smartphone and a modern teenager and reinventing the digital age.
            – anon
            11 hours ago






          • 2




            It doesn't have to be secret to be uncommon knowledge. You need to remember they didn't have google back then.
            – Ryan_L
            11 hours ago






          • 1




            @Yakk, could you tell without the internet or reference books how to find and refine saltpeter and sulfur? Or how to grind powder without an explosion in the powder mill?
            – o.m.
            7 hours ago










          • @Yakk, making gunpowder is more than just "pour 15 cups saltpeter, 3 cups charcoal, and 2 cups sulfur into a large bowl. Stir well." If you try to make gunpowder knowing only the proportions of the ingredients, the likely outcome is somewhere on the range from "blow yourself up" to "make something that emits a cloud of foul smoke" to "produce low-quality serpentine powder" at best. Producing a proper corned powder with a consistent grain size takes quite a bit of specialist knowledge.
            – Mark
            3 hours ago













          up vote
          11
          down vote










          up vote
          11
          down vote









          What technology could the European explorer have on board upon arrival which could be useful for a reverse expedition?





          • Gun powder: usually it was not produced in loco, but rather carried in barrels. I doubt knowledge of how to make it was common. Unlikely it could be transferred. Without this no way to learn usage of fire weapon. Also crafting fire weapons requires refined metallurgy, of the type hardly present on board.


          • Non fire weapons: for this I doubt that the weapons of an easily beaten group could make a great impression on the Emperor. However, it's possible that elementary knowledge of blacksmithing was in possession of part of the crew, as it was necessary at least to perform ordinary maintenance.


          • Ship making: wooden ships were easily damaged, and knowledge on how to fix them had to be present on board. Usually there was even a carpenter. Highly likely.


          • Navigation: learning how to maneuver a large ship was not something to be learned in few months. It required practice and dedication. But it is likely it could be taught. Using navigation instruments to determine the position was probably an art only known by the captain and the officials. This could also be transmitted.


          Now, having established the technologies, we have to determine if the captive crew would agree to teach them to the indigenous. I have few doubts that a low level crew member would happily save his life in exchange of details on what he knows.



          But the others, in possession of important knowledge, would probably evaluate the possibility of taking their secret in the grave. Those were times when maps with important secrets (like the location of newly discovered islands or trade route) were valued as state secret, and thus official were probably conscious of the risk behind disclosing such and similar secret. It would be a matter of using subtle social engineering to convince the prisoners to cooperate.



          But I think that, before venturing into Europe, the Aztec would have probably devoted their attention to the rest of the American continent, which posed less risks than a transoceanic navigation.






          share|improve this answer














          What technology could the European explorer have on board upon arrival which could be useful for a reverse expedition?





          • Gun powder: usually it was not produced in loco, but rather carried in barrels. I doubt knowledge of how to make it was common. Unlikely it could be transferred. Without this no way to learn usage of fire weapon. Also crafting fire weapons requires refined metallurgy, of the type hardly present on board.


          • Non fire weapons: for this I doubt that the weapons of an easily beaten group could make a great impression on the Emperor. However, it's possible that elementary knowledge of blacksmithing was in possession of part of the crew, as it was necessary at least to perform ordinary maintenance.


          • Ship making: wooden ships were easily damaged, and knowledge on how to fix them had to be present on board. Usually there was even a carpenter. Highly likely.


          • Navigation: learning how to maneuver a large ship was not something to be learned in few months. It required practice and dedication. But it is likely it could be taught. Using navigation instruments to determine the position was probably an art only known by the captain and the officials. This could also be transmitted.


          Now, having established the technologies, we have to determine if the captive crew would agree to teach them to the indigenous. I have few doubts that a low level crew member would happily save his life in exchange of details on what he knows.



          But the others, in possession of important knowledge, would probably evaluate the possibility of taking their secret in the grave. Those were times when maps with important secrets (like the location of newly discovered islands or trade route) were valued as state secret, and thus official were probably conscious of the risk behind disclosing such and similar secret. It would be a matter of using subtle social engineering to convince the prisoners to cooperate.



          But I think that, before venturing into Europe, the Aztec would have probably devoted their attention to the rest of the American continent, which posed less risks than a transoceanic navigation.







          share|improve this answer














          share|improve this answer



          share|improve this answer








          edited 20 hours ago









          dbkk

          1032




          1032










          answered yesterday









          L.Dutch

          69.5k22164335




          69.5k22164335












          • Why would gunpowder be a super secret? I mean, basic gunpowder is 15:3:2 saltpeter, charcoal, sulfer. Not exactly complex.
            – Yakk
            14 hours ago










          • Maps, sailing, medicine, food preservation. Its pretty much like giving columbus a smartphone and a modern teenager and reinventing the digital age.
            – anon
            11 hours ago






          • 2




            It doesn't have to be secret to be uncommon knowledge. You need to remember they didn't have google back then.
            – Ryan_L
            11 hours ago






          • 1




            @Yakk, could you tell without the internet or reference books how to find and refine saltpeter and sulfur? Or how to grind powder without an explosion in the powder mill?
            – o.m.
            7 hours ago










          • @Yakk, making gunpowder is more than just "pour 15 cups saltpeter, 3 cups charcoal, and 2 cups sulfur into a large bowl. Stir well." If you try to make gunpowder knowing only the proportions of the ingredients, the likely outcome is somewhere on the range from "blow yourself up" to "make something that emits a cloud of foul smoke" to "produce low-quality serpentine powder" at best. Producing a proper corned powder with a consistent grain size takes quite a bit of specialist knowledge.
            – Mark
            3 hours ago


















          • Why would gunpowder be a super secret? I mean, basic gunpowder is 15:3:2 saltpeter, charcoal, sulfer. Not exactly complex.
            – Yakk
            14 hours ago










          • Maps, sailing, medicine, food preservation. Its pretty much like giving columbus a smartphone and a modern teenager and reinventing the digital age.
            – anon
            11 hours ago






          • 2




            It doesn't have to be secret to be uncommon knowledge. You need to remember they didn't have google back then.
            – Ryan_L
            11 hours ago






          • 1




            @Yakk, could you tell without the internet or reference books how to find and refine saltpeter and sulfur? Or how to grind powder without an explosion in the powder mill?
            – o.m.
            7 hours ago










          • @Yakk, making gunpowder is more than just "pour 15 cups saltpeter, 3 cups charcoal, and 2 cups sulfur into a large bowl. Stir well." If you try to make gunpowder knowing only the proportions of the ingredients, the likely outcome is somewhere on the range from "blow yourself up" to "make something that emits a cloud of foul smoke" to "produce low-quality serpentine powder" at best. Producing a proper corned powder with a consistent grain size takes quite a bit of specialist knowledge.
            – Mark
            3 hours ago
















          Why would gunpowder be a super secret? I mean, basic gunpowder is 15:3:2 saltpeter, charcoal, sulfer. Not exactly complex.
          – Yakk
          14 hours ago




          Why would gunpowder be a super secret? I mean, basic gunpowder is 15:3:2 saltpeter, charcoal, sulfer. Not exactly complex.
          – Yakk
          14 hours ago












          Maps, sailing, medicine, food preservation. Its pretty much like giving columbus a smartphone and a modern teenager and reinventing the digital age.
          – anon
          11 hours ago




          Maps, sailing, medicine, food preservation. Its pretty much like giving columbus a smartphone and a modern teenager and reinventing the digital age.
          – anon
          11 hours ago




          2




          2




          It doesn't have to be secret to be uncommon knowledge. You need to remember they didn't have google back then.
          – Ryan_L
          11 hours ago




          It doesn't have to be secret to be uncommon knowledge. You need to remember they didn't have google back then.
          – Ryan_L
          11 hours ago




          1




          1




          @Yakk, could you tell without the internet or reference books how to find and refine saltpeter and sulfur? Or how to grind powder without an explosion in the powder mill?
          – o.m.
          7 hours ago




          @Yakk, could you tell without the internet or reference books how to find and refine saltpeter and sulfur? Or how to grind powder without an explosion in the powder mill?
          – o.m.
          7 hours ago












          @Yakk, making gunpowder is more than just "pour 15 cups saltpeter, 3 cups charcoal, and 2 cups sulfur into a large bowl. Stir well." If you try to make gunpowder knowing only the proportions of the ingredients, the likely outcome is somewhere on the range from "blow yourself up" to "make something that emits a cloud of foul smoke" to "produce low-quality serpentine powder" at best. Producing a proper corned powder with a consistent grain size takes quite a bit of specialist knowledge.
          – Mark
          3 hours ago




          @Yakk, making gunpowder is more than just "pour 15 cups saltpeter, 3 cups charcoal, and 2 cups sulfur into a large bowl. Stir well." If you try to make gunpowder knowing only the proportions of the ingredients, the likely outcome is somewhere on the range from "blow yourself up" to "make something that emits a cloud of foul smoke" to "produce low-quality serpentine powder" at best. Producing a proper corned powder with a consistent grain size takes quite a bit of specialist knowledge.
          – Mark
          3 hours ago










          up vote
          4
          down vote













          Not exactly a technology, but if they had captured some Spanish horses they could use them to improve communication within their empire, expand their borders in Mesoamerica and be better prepared for the next wave of Europeans once they arrive. While the stories of Americans believing Europeans to be centaurs or gods because of horses are probably exaggerated, they did play a role in convincing some tribes to join the conquistadors and in intimidating the Aztec warriors.



          Also as others mentioned sailing technology already, they could load horses on their ships and show up in Europe in style.






          share|improve this answer








          New contributor




          Milo Bem is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
          Check out our Code of Conduct.


















          • Great idea, I don't know that Columbus had horses though (some of the later expeditions certainly did).
            – theinvisibleduck
            12 hours ago










          • according to this tuesdayshorse.wordpress.com/2012/10/08/… he had some on his second journey. not sure about the first, but you're already doing alternate history and it's not that big stretch, i think.
            – Milo Bem
            12 hours ago















          up vote
          4
          down vote













          Not exactly a technology, but if they had captured some Spanish horses they could use them to improve communication within their empire, expand their borders in Mesoamerica and be better prepared for the next wave of Europeans once they arrive. While the stories of Americans believing Europeans to be centaurs or gods because of horses are probably exaggerated, they did play a role in convincing some tribes to join the conquistadors and in intimidating the Aztec warriors.



          Also as others mentioned sailing technology already, they could load horses on their ships and show up in Europe in style.






          share|improve this answer








          New contributor




          Milo Bem is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
          Check out our Code of Conduct.


















          • Great idea, I don't know that Columbus had horses though (some of the later expeditions certainly did).
            – theinvisibleduck
            12 hours ago










          • according to this tuesdayshorse.wordpress.com/2012/10/08/… he had some on his second journey. not sure about the first, but you're already doing alternate history and it's not that big stretch, i think.
            – Milo Bem
            12 hours ago













          up vote
          4
          down vote










          up vote
          4
          down vote









          Not exactly a technology, but if they had captured some Spanish horses they could use them to improve communication within their empire, expand their borders in Mesoamerica and be better prepared for the next wave of Europeans once they arrive. While the stories of Americans believing Europeans to be centaurs or gods because of horses are probably exaggerated, they did play a role in convincing some tribes to join the conquistadors and in intimidating the Aztec warriors.



          Also as others mentioned sailing technology already, they could load horses on their ships and show up in Europe in style.






          share|improve this answer








          New contributor




          Milo Bem is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
          Check out our Code of Conduct.









          Not exactly a technology, but if they had captured some Spanish horses they could use them to improve communication within their empire, expand their borders in Mesoamerica and be better prepared for the next wave of Europeans once they arrive. While the stories of Americans believing Europeans to be centaurs or gods because of horses are probably exaggerated, they did play a role in convincing some tribes to join the conquistadors and in intimidating the Aztec warriors.



          Also as others mentioned sailing technology already, they could load horses on their ships and show up in Europe in style.







          share|improve this answer








          New contributor




          Milo Bem is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
          Check out our Code of Conduct.









          share|improve this answer



          share|improve this answer






          New contributor




          Milo Bem is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
          Check out our Code of Conduct.









          answered 12 hours ago









          Milo Bem

          1412




          1412




          New contributor




          Milo Bem is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
          Check out our Code of Conduct.





          New contributor





          Milo Bem is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
          Check out our Code of Conduct.






          Milo Bem is a new contributor to this site. Take care in asking for clarification, commenting, and answering.
          Check out our Code of Conduct.












          • Great idea, I don't know that Columbus had horses though (some of the later expeditions certainly did).
            – theinvisibleduck
            12 hours ago










          • according to this tuesdayshorse.wordpress.com/2012/10/08/… he had some on his second journey. not sure about the first, but you're already doing alternate history and it's not that big stretch, i think.
            – Milo Bem
            12 hours ago


















          • Great idea, I don't know that Columbus had horses though (some of the later expeditions certainly did).
            – theinvisibleduck
            12 hours ago










          • according to this tuesdayshorse.wordpress.com/2012/10/08/… he had some on his second journey. not sure about the first, but you're already doing alternate history and it's not that big stretch, i think.
            – Milo Bem
            12 hours ago
















          Great idea, I don't know that Columbus had horses though (some of the later expeditions certainly did).
          – theinvisibleduck
          12 hours ago




          Great idea, I don't know that Columbus had horses though (some of the later expeditions certainly did).
          – theinvisibleduck
          12 hours ago












          according to this tuesdayshorse.wordpress.com/2012/10/08/… he had some on his second journey. not sure about the first, but you're already doing alternate history and it's not that big stretch, i think.
          – Milo Bem
          12 hours ago




          according to this tuesdayshorse.wordpress.com/2012/10/08/… he had some on his second journey. not sure about the first, but you're already doing alternate history and it's not that big stretch, i think.
          – Milo Bem
          12 hours ago










          up vote
          2
          down vote













          The wood working, rope making and weaving technologies of Europe differed mainly in terms of scale, tools used, mechanisation, and standardisation rather than in matters of underlying technique so the Aztecs could almost certainly pick up the particulars necessary to build ships capable of crossing the Atlantic if they decided it was a priority.



          Beyond that it depends a great deal on how much information the Aztecs could get from the crew about basic industrial chemistry, for example the recipe for gunpowder was not any great secret in Europe at the time. Nor were any number of other pieces of industrial chemistry like the extraction of iron, lead, copper, and tin, from various ores, or the proportions for making bronze, solder, pewter, and steel, things like amalgam and invar were still trade secrets though.



          Whether any of the crew knew these things is a different matter though. I don't know the exact composition of the crew of the Santa Maria, Nina, and Pinto, if Columbus had ex-miners and/or foundry workers in the crew then many possibilities open up. They could identify ores in the field and the local pottery kilns would be sufficient to being scaled up for metal production, they could produce enough heat. Gunpowder can be made in the field, in a rough and ready rule of thumb way, using raw materials that aren't impossible to get in quantity in the Caribbean area, officers of any military force of the era should have known a couple of basic recipes for use in exigent circumstances.






          share|improve this answer

























            up vote
            2
            down vote













            The wood working, rope making and weaving technologies of Europe differed mainly in terms of scale, tools used, mechanisation, and standardisation rather than in matters of underlying technique so the Aztecs could almost certainly pick up the particulars necessary to build ships capable of crossing the Atlantic if they decided it was a priority.



            Beyond that it depends a great deal on how much information the Aztecs could get from the crew about basic industrial chemistry, for example the recipe for gunpowder was not any great secret in Europe at the time. Nor were any number of other pieces of industrial chemistry like the extraction of iron, lead, copper, and tin, from various ores, or the proportions for making bronze, solder, pewter, and steel, things like amalgam and invar were still trade secrets though.



            Whether any of the crew knew these things is a different matter though. I don't know the exact composition of the crew of the Santa Maria, Nina, and Pinto, if Columbus had ex-miners and/or foundry workers in the crew then many possibilities open up. They could identify ores in the field and the local pottery kilns would be sufficient to being scaled up for metal production, they could produce enough heat. Gunpowder can be made in the field, in a rough and ready rule of thumb way, using raw materials that aren't impossible to get in quantity in the Caribbean area, officers of any military force of the era should have known a couple of basic recipes for use in exigent circumstances.






            share|improve this answer























              up vote
              2
              down vote










              up vote
              2
              down vote









              The wood working, rope making and weaving technologies of Europe differed mainly in terms of scale, tools used, mechanisation, and standardisation rather than in matters of underlying technique so the Aztecs could almost certainly pick up the particulars necessary to build ships capable of crossing the Atlantic if they decided it was a priority.



              Beyond that it depends a great deal on how much information the Aztecs could get from the crew about basic industrial chemistry, for example the recipe for gunpowder was not any great secret in Europe at the time. Nor were any number of other pieces of industrial chemistry like the extraction of iron, lead, copper, and tin, from various ores, or the proportions for making bronze, solder, pewter, and steel, things like amalgam and invar were still trade secrets though.



              Whether any of the crew knew these things is a different matter though. I don't know the exact composition of the crew of the Santa Maria, Nina, and Pinto, if Columbus had ex-miners and/or foundry workers in the crew then many possibilities open up. They could identify ores in the field and the local pottery kilns would be sufficient to being scaled up for metal production, they could produce enough heat. Gunpowder can be made in the field, in a rough and ready rule of thumb way, using raw materials that aren't impossible to get in quantity in the Caribbean area, officers of any military force of the era should have known a couple of basic recipes for use in exigent circumstances.






              share|improve this answer












              The wood working, rope making and weaving technologies of Europe differed mainly in terms of scale, tools used, mechanisation, and standardisation rather than in matters of underlying technique so the Aztecs could almost certainly pick up the particulars necessary to build ships capable of crossing the Atlantic if they decided it was a priority.



              Beyond that it depends a great deal on how much information the Aztecs could get from the crew about basic industrial chemistry, for example the recipe for gunpowder was not any great secret in Europe at the time. Nor were any number of other pieces of industrial chemistry like the extraction of iron, lead, copper, and tin, from various ores, or the proportions for making bronze, solder, pewter, and steel, things like amalgam and invar were still trade secrets though.



              Whether any of the crew knew these things is a different matter though. I don't know the exact composition of the crew of the Santa Maria, Nina, and Pinto, if Columbus had ex-miners and/or foundry workers in the crew then many possibilities open up. They could identify ores in the field and the local pottery kilns would be sufficient to being scaled up for metal production, they could produce enough heat. Gunpowder can be made in the field, in a rough and ready rule of thumb way, using raw materials that aren't impossible to get in quantity in the Caribbean area, officers of any military force of the era should have known a couple of basic recipes for use in exigent circumstances.







              share|improve this answer












              share|improve this answer



              share|improve this answer










              answered 16 hours ago









              Ash

              25.9k465143




              25.9k465143






















                  up vote
                  1
                  down vote













                  Yes, they can do that. But they would need wise emperor and something like culture shock. So your wise leader wins, but understands, that his people are ages behind in technology and that will mean end of his empire, should there be real war.



                  He decides, Aztecs need change and fast. He uses bribes, titles, marriage and piles of gold or torture to get as much information and cooperation from captured Spanish. With said information and deep pockets of emperor, mining and metalworking grow by days. Carpenters try to build ever bigger ships. Soon all needed components of gunpowder are found and wisemen and priests labor day and night to perfect formula and start production.



                  In few short years Empire is reborn and stronger.



                  Problem is Spanish had little knowledge how to cure and prevent diseases. Maybe one of your priests would invent variolation to prevent smallpox, problem is they had no cows.. alternative animal? Dogs, cats, horses of Spanish.



                  Invade Spain, that would have close to zero chance to have any good results. Spain would be too strong for them to invade alone and with help from other countries... They would only paint big target for crusade.






                  share|improve this answer



























                    up vote
                    1
                    down vote













                    Yes, they can do that. But they would need wise emperor and something like culture shock. So your wise leader wins, but understands, that his people are ages behind in technology and that will mean end of his empire, should there be real war.



                    He decides, Aztecs need change and fast. He uses bribes, titles, marriage and piles of gold or torture to get as much information and cooperation from captured Spanish. With said information and deep pockets of emperor, mining and metalworking grow by days. Carpenters try to build ever bigger ships. Soon all needed components of gunpowder are found and wisemen and priests labor day and night to perfect formula and start production.



                    In few short years Empire is reborn and stronger.



                    Problem is Spanish had little knowledge how to cure and prevent diseases. Maybe one of your priests would invent variolation to prevent smallpox, problem is they had no cows.. alternative animal? Dogs, cats, horses of Spanish.



                    Invade Spain, that would have close to zero chance to have any good results. Spain would be too strong for them to invade alone and with help from other countries... They would only paint big target for crusade.






                    share|improve this answer

























                      up vote
                      1
                      down vote










                      up vote
                      1
                      down vote









                      Yes, they can do that. But they would need wise emperor and something like culture shock. So your wise leader wins, but understands, that his people are ages behind in technology and that will mean end of his empire, should there be real war.



                      He decides, Aztecs need change and fast. He uses bribes, titles, marriage and piles of gold or torture to get as much information and cooperation from captured Spanish. With said information and deep pockets of emperor, mining and metalworking grow by days. Carpenters try to build ever bigger ships. Soon all needed components of gunpowder are found and wisemen and priests labor day and night to perfect formula and start production.



                      In few short years Empire is reborn and stronger.



                      Problem is Spanish had little knowledge how to cure and prevent diseases. Maybe one of your priests would invent variolation to prevent smallpox, problem is they had no cows.. alternative animal? Dogs, cats, horses of Spanish.



                      Invade Spain, that would have close to zero chance to have any good results. Spain would be too strong for them to invade alone and with help from other countries... They would only paint big target for crusade.






                      share|improve this answer














                      Yes, they can do that. But they would need wise emperor and something like culture shock. So your wise leader wins, but understands, that his people are ages behind in technology and that will mean end of his empire, should there be real war.



                      He decides, Aztecs need change and fast. He uses bribes, titles, marriage and piles of gold or torture to get as much information and cooperation from captured Spanish. With said information and deep pockets of emperor, mining and metalworking grow by days. Carpenters try to build ever bigger ships. Soon all needed components of gunpowder are found and wisemen and priests labor day and night to perfect formula and start production.



                      In few short years Empire is reborn and stronger.



                      Problem is Spanish had little knowledge how to cure and prevent diseases. Maybe one of your priests would invent variolation to prevent smallpox, problem is they had no cows.. alternative animal? Dogs, cats, horses of Spanish.



                      Invade Spain, that would have close to zero chance to have any good results. Spain would be too strong for them to invade alone and with help from other countries... They would only paint big target for crusade.







                      share|improve this answer














                      share|improve this answer



                      share|improve this answer








                      edited yesterday

























                      answered yesterday









                      Artemijs Danilovs

                      4146




                      4146






















                          up vote
                          1
                          down vote













                          You can't reverse-engineer steel or gunpowder unless you can somehow capture manufacturing facilities which a typical conquistador did not carry with themselves. Those were conquerors relying on stock they brought from their homes. if they were up to mine iron ore or saltpetre, that might have pointed the Aztecs to the right direction, but as far as I can recall, those guys were only after precious metals, spices and such.






                          share|improve this answer

















                          • 1




                            They were in fact explorers looking for any resources that would compensate the royal family for their investment in the voyage. What particular skill sets they had along I don't know but a naturalist that can tell you you're holding silver ore can also point out iron ore, coal seams etc... and make saltpetre, probably gunpowder too.
                            – Ash
                            16 hours ago








                          • 1




                            @Ash We are talking about reverse engineering here. You can only reverse-engineer stuff you see working. You can't reverse engineer steel manufacturing without seeing a steel smelter working. The end product simply doesn't say anything about the process.
                            – mg30rg
                            16 hours ago










                          • Given that the "survivors are taken prisoner" we're not just talking about reverse engineering.
                            – Ash
                            16 hours ago












                          • @Ash Ok, I must have skipped that part. Althought I strongly doubt that any conquistador was such a renaissance-man to be able to create a usable smelthery with late stone- and early bronze age tools. But again, I might be wrong.
                            – mg30rg
                            16 hours ago










                          • Depends what you want to smelt and how, pottery kilns can and do produce enough heat for bloomery iron and more than enough for lower temperature processes like copper and lead smelting. Blast furnaces or any other large-scale process I quite agree won't happen, not soon anyway, but small charcoal fired smelters aren't too hard to build, not the most efficient technology of the age, but workable.
                            – Ash
                            16 hours ago















                          up vote
                          1
                          down vote













                          You can't reverse-engineer steel or gunpowder unless you can somehow capture manufacturing facilities which a typical conquistador did not carry with themselves. Those were conquerors relying on stock they brought from their homes. if they were up to mine iron ore or saltpetre, that might have pointed the Aztecs to the right direction, but as far as I can recall, those guys were only after precious metals, spices and such.






                          share|improve this answer

















                          • 1




                            They were in fact explorers looking for any resources that would compensate the royal family for their investment in the voyage. What particular skill sets they had along I don't know but a naturalist that can tell you you're holding silver ore can also point out iron ore, coal seams etc... and make saltpetre, probably gunpowder too.
                            – Ash
                            16 hours ago








                          • 1




                            @Ash We are talking about reverse engineering here. You can only reverse-engineer stuff you see working. You can't reverse engineer steel manufacturing without seeing a steel smelter working. The end product simply doesn't say anything about the process.
                            – mg30rg
                            16 hours ago










                          • Given that the "survivors are taken prisoner" we're not just talking about reverse engineering.
                            – Ash
                            16 hours ago












                          • @Ash Ok, I must have skipped that part. Althought I strongly doubt that any conquistador was such a renaissance-man to be able to create a usable smelthery with late stone- and early bronze age tools. But again, I might be wrong.
                            – mg30rg
                            16 hours ago










                          • Depends what you want to smelt and how, pottery kilns can and do produce enough heat for bloomery iron and more than enough for lower temperature processes like copper and lead smelting. Blast furnaces or any other large-scale process I quite agree won't happen, not soon anyway, but small charcoal fired smelters aren't too hard to build, not the most efficient technology of the age, but workable.
                            – Ash
                            16 hours ago













                          up vote
                          1
                          down vote










                          up vote
                          1
                          down vote









                          You can't reverse-engineer steel or gunpowder unless you can somehow capture manufacturing facilities which a typical conquistador did not carry with themselves. Those were conquerors relying on stock they brought from their homes. if they were up to mine iron ore or saltpetre, that might have pointed the Aztecs to the right direction, but as far as I can recall, those guys were only after precious metals, spices and such.






                          share|improve this answer












                          You can't reverse-engineer steel or gunpowder unless you can somehow capture manufacturing facilities which a typical conquistador did not carry with themselves. Those were conquerors relying on stock they brought from their homes. if they were up to mine iron ore or saltpetre, that might have pointed the Aztecs to the right direction, but as far as I can recall, those guys were only after precious metals, spices and such.







                          share|improve this answer












                          share|improve this answer



                          share|improve this answer










                          answered 18 hours ago









                          mg30rg

                          1,524819




                          1,524819








                          • 1




                            They were in fact explorers looking for any resources that would compensate the royal family for their investment in the voyage. What particular skill sets they had along I don't know but a naturalist that can tell you you're holding silver ore can also point out iron ore, coal seams etc... and make saltpetre, probably gunpowder too.
                            – Ash
                            16 hours ago








                          • 1




                            @Ash We are talking about reverse engineering here. You can only reverse-engineer stuff you see working. You can't reverse engineer steel manufacturing without seeing a steel smelter working. The end product simply doesn't say anything about the process.
                            – mg30rg
                            16 hours ago










                          • Given that the "survivors are taken prisoner" we're not just talking about reverse engineering.
                            – Ash
                            16 hours ago












                          • @Ash Ok, I must have skipped that part. Althought I strongly doubt that any conquistador was such a renaissance-man to be able to create a usable smelthery with late stone- and early bronze age tools. But again, I might be wrong.
                            – mg30rg
                            16 hours ago










                          • Depends what you want to smelt and how, pottery kilns can and do produce enough heat for bloomery iron and more than enough for lower temperature processes like copper and lead smelting. Blast furnaces or any other large-scale process I quite agree won't happen, not soon anyway, but small charcoal fired smelters aren't too hard to build, not the most efficient technology of the age, but workable.
                            – Ash
                            16 hours ago














                          • 1




                            They were in fact explorers looking for any resources that would compensate the royal family for their investment in the voyage. What particular skill sets they had along I don't know but a naturalist that can tell you you're holding silver ore can also point out iron ore, coal seams etc... and make saltpetre, probably gunpowder too.
                            – Ash
                            16 hours ago








                          • 1




                            @Ash We are talking about reverse engineering here. You can only reverse-engineer stuff you see working. You can't reverse engineer steel manufacturing without seeing a steel smelter working. The end product simply doesn't say anything about the process.
                            – mg30rg
                            16 hours ago










                          • Given that the "survivors are taken prisoner" we're not just talking about reverse engineering.
                            – Ash
                            16 hours ago












                          • @Ash Ok, I must have skipped that part. Althought I strongly doubt that any conquistador was such a renaissance-man to be able to create a usable smelthery with late stone- and early bronze age tools. But again, I might be wrong.
                            – mg30rg
                            16 hours ago










                          • Depends what you want to smelt and how, pottery kilns can and do produce enough heat for bloomery iron and more than enough for lower temperature processes like copper and lead smelting. Blast furnaces or any other large-scale process I quite agree won't happen, not soon anyway, but small charcoal fired smelters aren't too hard to build, not the most efficient technology of the age, but workable.
                            – Ash
                            16 hours ago








                          1




                          1




                          They were in fact explorers looking for any resources that would compensate the royal family for their investment in the voyage. What particular skill sets they had along I don't know but a naturalist that can tell you you're holding silver ore can also point out iron ore, coal seams etc... and make saltpetre, probably gunpowder too.
                          – Ash
                          16 hours ago






                          They were in fact explorers looking for any resources that would compensate the royal family for their investment in the voyage. What particular skill sets they had along I don't know but a naturalist that can tell you you're holding silver ore can also point out iron ore, coal seams etc... and make saltpetre, probably gunpowder too.
                          – Ash
                          16 hours ago






                          1




                          1




                          @Ash We are talking about reverse engineering here. You can only reverse-engineer stuff you see working. You can't reverse engineer steel manufacturing without seeing a steel smelter working. The end product simply doesn't say anything about the process.
                          – mg30rg
                          16 hours ago




                          @Ash We are talking about reverse engineering here. You can only reverse-engineer stuff you see working. You can't reverse engineer steel manufacturing without seeing a steel smelter working. The end product simply doesn't say anything about the process.
                          – mg30rg
                          16 hours ago












                          Given that the "survivors are taken prisoner" we're not just talking about reverse engineering.
                          – Ash
                          16 hours ago






                          Given that the "survivors are taken prisoner" we're not just talking about reverse engineering.
                          – Ash
                          16 hours ago














                          @Ash Ok, I must have skipped that part. Althought I strongly doubt that any conquistador was such a renaissance-man to be able to create a usable smelthery with late stone- and early bronze age tools. But again, I might be wrong.
                          – mg30rg
                          16 hours ago




                          @Ash Ok, I must have skipped that part. Althought I strongly doubt that any conquistador was such a renaissance-man to be able to create a usable smelthery with late stone- and early bronze age tools. But again, I might be wrong.
                          – mg30rg
                          16 hours ago












                          Depends what you want to smelt and how, pottery kilns can and do produce enough heat for bloomery iron and more than enough for lower temperature processes like copper and lead smelting. Blast furnaces or any other large-scale process I quite agree won't happen, not soon anyway, but small charcoal fired smelters aren't too hard to build, not the most efficient technology of the age, but workable.
                          – Ash
                          16 hours ago




                          Depends what you want to smelt and how, pottery kilns can and do produce enough heat for bloomery iron and more than enough for lower temperature processes like copper and lead smelting. Blast furnaces or any other large-scale process I quite agree won't happen, not soon anyway, but small charcoal fired smelters aren't too hard to build, not the most efficient technology of the age, but workable.
                          – Ash
                          16 hours ago










                          up vote
                          0
                          down vote













                          It would be very hard to salvage the naval tech. Shipbuilding demands the right trees and iron/bronze metallurgy to manufacture both the tools and the critical metal parts of a oceanfaring ship. And even if there was a blacksmith among the crew members you will have no iron because what you need is a miner that also knows prospection. Was there europeans that knew how to find virgin ore veins to mine in the XIV century? I don't know but I would bet there wasn't since most mines in Europe were old, ancient mining regions, some from the roman times, other slowly discovered during the middle ages. There was no science and art of finding good places for mining in Europe, geology is hundreds of years in the future. So, no iron.



                          In the case of bronze you have to find a north american geology map that shows where is tin and where is copper and see if it was viable for the aztec to have access to both mineral resources at the same time. Most probably it wouldn't.






                          share|improve this answer

























                            up vote
                            0
                            down vote













                            It would be very hard to salvage the naval tech. Shipbuilding demands the right trees and iron/bronze metallurgy to manufacture both the tools and the critical metal parts of a oceanfaring ship. And even if there was a blacksmith among the crew members you will have no iron because what you need is a miner that also knows prospection. Was there europeans that knew how to find virgin ore veins to mine in the XIV century? I don't know but I would bet there wasn't since most mines in Europe were old, ancient mining regions, some from the roman times, other slowly discovered during the middle ages. There was no science and art of finding good places for mining in Europe, geology is hundreds of years in the future. So, no iron.



                            In the case of bronze you have to find a north american geology map that shows where is tin and where is copper and see if it was viable for the aztec to have access to both mineral resources at the same time. Most probably it wouldn't.






                            share|improve this answer























                              up vote
                              0
                              down vote










                              up vote
                              0
                              down vote









                              It would be very hard to salvage the naval tech. Shipbuilding demands the right trees and iron/bronze metallurgy to manufacture both the tools and the critical metal parts of a oceanfaring ship. And even if there was a blacksmith among the crew members you will have no iron because what you need is a miner that also knows prospection. Was there europeans that knew how to find virgin ore veins to mine in the XIV century? I don't know but I would bet there wasn't since most mines in Europe were old, ancient mining regions, some from the roman times, other slowly discovered during the middle ages. There was no science and art of finding good places for mining in Europe, geology is hundreds of years in the future. So, no iron.



                              In the case of bronze you have to find a north american geology map that shows where is tin and where is copper and see if it was viable for the aztec to have access to both mineral resources at the same time. Most probably it wouldn't.






                              share|improve this answer












                              It would be very hard to salvage the naval tech. Shipbuilding demands the right trees and iron/bronze metallurgy to manufacture both the tools and the critical metal parts of a oceanfaring ship. And even if there was a blacksmith among the crew members you will have no iron because what you need is a miner that also knows prospection. Was there europeans that knew how to find virgin ore veins to mine in the XIV century? I don't know but I would bet there wasn't since most mines in Europe were old, ancient mining regions, some from the roman times, other slowly discovered during the middle ages. There was no science and art of finding good places for mining in Europe, geology is hundreds of years in the future. So, no iron.



                              In the case of bronze you have to find a north american geology map that shows where is tin and where is copper and see if it was viable for the aztec to have access to both mineral resources at the same time. Most probably it wouldn't.







                              share|improve this answer












                              share|improve this answer



                              share|improve this answer










                              answered 10 hours ago









                              Geronimo

                              61939




                              61939






















                                  up vote
                                  0
                                  down vote













                                  Not much



                                  Let's assume the best case for the Aztecs-they kill all of Columbus' crew, have all the hardware available for inspection, and contract no European diseases. Technology comes as a whole interrelated package. People say the Aztecs could have understood the ship technology. They probably could understand the construction, but not why the ships were designed as they were. As others have said, you can't understand how to make steel just by looking at it, so you can't steal the ship designs in the places steel was used to hold the ship together. They might realize gunpowder was what made the muskets work, but figuring out how to make gunpowder seems difficult. It might have made them use wheels for real work instead of just children's toys. There would clearly be an explosion in technology, but Europe was progressing as well.



                                  I can't imagine it taking more than a few decades before the next European ship came to the Americas. Magellan was only 30 years later and his crew sailed around the world. You can't have steel that fast, which means no useful guns. Gunpowder is not very useful without steel to contain it. The next few ships would have brought the diseases, so I suspect this scenario just delays the conquest of the Americas by a few decades.






                                  share|improve this answer

























                                    up vote
                                    0
                                    down vote













                                    Not much



                                    Let's assume the best case for the Aztecs-they kill all of Columbus' crew, have all the hardware available for inspection, and contract no European diseases. Technology comes as a whole interrelated package. People say the Aztecs could have understood the ship technology. They probably could understand the construction, but not why the ships were designed as they were. As others have said, you can't understand how to make steel just by looking at it, so you can't steal the ship designs in the places steel was used to hold the ship together. They might realize gunpowder was what made the muskets work, but figuring out how to make gunpowder seems difficult. It might have made them use wheels for real work instead of just children's toys. There would clearly be an explosion in technology, but Europe was progressing as well.



                                    I can't imagine it taking more than a few decades before the next European ship came to the Americas. Magellan was only 30 years later and his crew sailed around the world. You can't have steel that fast, which means no useful guns. Gunpowder is not very useful without steel to contain it. The next few ships would have brought the diseases, so I suspect this scenario just delays the conquest of the Americas by a few decades.






                                    share|improve this answer























                                      up vote
                                      0
                                      down vote










                                      up vote
                                      0
                                      down vote









                                      Not much



                                      Let's assume the best case for the Aztecs-they kill all of Columbus' crew, have all the hardware available for inspection, and contract no European diseases. Technology comes as a whole interrelated package. People say the Aztecs could have understood the ship technology. They probably could understand the construction, but not why the ships were designed as they were. As others have said, you can't understand how to make steel just by looking at it, so you can't steal the ship designs in the places steel was used to hold the ship together. They might realize gunpowder was what made the muskets work, but figuring out how to make gunpowder seems difficult. It might have made them use wheels for real work instead of just children's toys. There would clearly be an explosion in technology, but Europe was progressing as well.



                                      I can't imagine it taking more than a few decades before the next European ship came to the Americas. Magellan was only 30 years later and his crew sailed around the world. You can't have steel that fast, which means no useful guns. Gunpowder is not very useful without steel to contain it. The next few ships would have brought the diseases, so I suspect this scenario just delays the conquest of the Americas by a few decades.






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                                      Not much



                                      Let's assume the best case for the Aztecs-they kill all of Columbus' crew, have all the hardware available for inspection, and contract no European diseases. Technology comes as a whole interrelated package. People say the Aztecs could have understood the ship technology. They probably could understand the construction, but not why the ships were designed as they were. As others have said, you can't understand how to make steel just by looking at it, so you can't steal the ship designs in the places steel was used to hold the ship together. They might realize gunpowder was what made the muskets work, but figuring out how to make gunpowder seems difficult. It might have made them use wheels for real work instead of just children's toys. There would clearly be an explosion in technology, but Europe was progressing as well.



                                      I can't imagine it taking more than a few decades before the next European ship came to the Americas. Magellan was only 30 years later and his crew sailed around the world. You can't have steel that fast, which means no useful guns. Gunpowder is not very useful without steel to contain it. The next few ships would have brought the diseases, so I suspect this scenario just delays the conquest of the Americas by a few decades.







                                      share|improve this answer












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                                      answered 22 mins ago









                                      Ross Millikan

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