Uncountable orthonormal set in a Hilbert space
$begingroup$
Let $H$ be a Hilbert space.
Why if $H$ has an uncountable orthonormal set $ F={B_i ; iin I} $ then it cannot have a countable basis ?
hilbert-spaces
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Let $H$ be a Hilbert space.
Why if $H$ has an uncountable orthonormal set $ F={B_i ; iin I} $ then it cannot have a countable basis ?
hilbert-spaces
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
What are your thoughts on this?
$endgroup$
– MisterRiemann
Dec 13 '18 at 18:17
add a comment |
$begingroup$
Let $H$ be a Hilbert space.
Why if $H$ has an uncountable orthonormal set $ F={B_i ; iin I} $ then it cannot have a countable basis ?
hilbert-spaces
$endgroup$
Let $H$ be a Hilbert space.
Why if $H$ has an uncountable orthonormal set $ F={B_i ; iin I} $ then it cannot have a countable basis ?
hilbert-spaces
hilbert-spaces
asked Dec 13 '18 at 18:12
Anas BOUALIIAnas BOUALII
1397
1397
$begingroup$
What are your thoughts on this?
$endgroup$
– MisterRiemann
Dec 13 '18 at 18:17
add a comment |
$begingroup$
What are your thoughts on this?
$endgroup$
– MisterRiemann
Dec 13 '18 at 18:17
$begingroup$
What are your thoughts on this?
$endgroup$
– MisterRiemann
Dec 13 '18 at 18:17
$begingroup$
What are your thoughts on this?
$endgroup$
– MisterRiemann
Dec 13 '18 at 18:17
add a comment |
3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
$begingroup$
You can prove (or consider) the reverse, meaning the statement/lemma :
Let $H$ be an infinite dimensional Hilbert space. Then, $H$ has a countable orthonormal basis if and only if $H$ has a dense countable set.
To prove that, I will note some quick hints.
First let us assume that $H$ has a countable orthonormal basis ${e_n}$. Then any $x in H$ can be uniquely written as :
$$x = sum_{n=1}^infty langle x,e_nrangle e_n$$
But, such $x$ can be written as a linear combination of rationals
$$x = sum_{n=1}^m q_ne_n$$
since the set $mathbb Q + mathbb Qi$ is a countable and dense subset of $mathbb C$.
Consider now the set :
$$D_n = bigg{d_n = sum_{n=1}^m q_ne_n, ; q_n in mathbb Q + mathbb Qibigg}$$
Then the set $D$ defined as
$$D = bigcup_{n=1} D_n$$
is countable as a union of countable sets.
Now you need to show that $D$ is also dense. But, note that since the
$$x = sum_{n=1}^infty langle x,e_nrangle e_n$$
converges, its partial sum serie should also converge, thus
$$left| sumlimits_{n=N+1} langle x,e_nrangle e_nright|< frac{varepsilon}{2}$$
for $N in mathbb N$ sufficiently large and $varepsilon >0$.
Now, keep in mind that $mathbb Q + mathbb Qi$ is not only countable, but dense and use the Triangle Inequality and Parseval's Inequality to prove that :
$$left| sum_{n=1}^infty langle x,e_nrangle e_n - sum_{n=1}^N q_ie_n right| < varepsilon$$
For the converse, assume that $H$ has a countable dense set ${h_j}$ with $j in mathbb N$ and that ${e_i}$ is an orthonormal basis with $i in mathbb N$. Now, try to reach a contradiction by assuming that the orthonormal basis is uncountable.
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
I get the theorem that you just proved, but i think that there s a simple response to my question (without using density) because $F$ is just an uncoutable orthonormal set.
$endgroup$
– Anas BOUALII
Dec 13 '18 at 18:56
$begingroup$
You do need to use density, but the answer is pretty straightforward. See below.
$endgroup$
– Matematleta
Dec 13 '18 at 22:43
add a comment |
$begingroup$
If $left { e_n:nin mathbb N right }$ is an orthonormal basis for $mathcal H$, then $left { sum_{k=0}^{N}q_k+ir_k:q_k,r_kin mathbb Q,Nin mathbb N right }$ ia a countable dense subset.
If $mathcal H$ has an uncountable orthonormal basis, say, $left { e_{alpha}:alphain Lambda right }$ and a dense subset $D$, then, since $|e_{alpha}-e_{beta}|^2=2$ whenever $alpha neq beta$, the balls $B(alpha,sqrt2/2)$ are disjoint and so since each of them must contain a point $x_{alpha}in D$, the map $alphato x_{alpha}$ shows that $D$ is uncountable.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
I already wrote this in a comment under an answer but that answer was erased, and it seems to be this is the easiest answer, unless I'm missing something basic: a set of orthonormal vectors in any inner product space, and thus also in Hilbert spaces, is linearly independent (reasonably easy proof), and thus in your question $;F;$ is a lin. indpendent set, which means $;dim Hge|F|ge 2^{aleph_0};$ , and since all the basis of a vector space (or Hilbert space) have the same cardinality we're through.
The above remains true taking closures of spans and stuff, as far as I see it...
$endgroup$
add a comment |
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3 Answers
3
active
oldest
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3 Answers
3
active
oldest
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active
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$begingroup$
You can prove (or consider) the reverse, meaning the statement/lemma :
Let $H$ be an infinite dimensional Hilbert space. Then, $H$ has a countable orthonormal basis if and only if $H$ has a dense countable set.
To prove that, I will note some quick hints.
First let us assume that $H$ has a countable orthonormal basis ${e_n}$. Then any $x in H$ can be uniquely written as :
$$x = sum_{n=1}^infty langle x,e_nrangle e_n$$
But, such $x$ can be written as a linear combination of rationals
$$x = sum_{n=1}^m q_ne_n$$
since the set $mathbb Q + mathbb Qi$ is a countable and dense subset of $mathbb C$.
Consider now the set :
$$D_n = bigg{d_n = sum_{n=1}^m q_ne_n, ; q_n in mathbb Q + mathbb Qibigg}$$
Then the set $D$ defined as
$$D = bigcup_{n=1} D_n$$
is countable as a union of countable sets.
Now you need to show that $D$ is also dense. But, note that since the
$$x = sum_{n=1}^infty langle x,e_nrangle e_n$$
converges, its partial sum serie should also converge, thus
$$left| sumlimits_{n=N+1} langle x,e_nrangle e_nright|< frac{varepsilon}{2}$$
for $N in mathbb N$ sufficiently large and $varepsilon >0$.
Now, keep in mind that $mathbb Q + mathbb Qi$ is not only countable, but dense and use the Triangle Inequality and Parseval's Inequality to prove that :
$$left| sum_{n=1}^infty langle x,e_nrangle e_n - sum_{n=1}^N q_ie_n right| < varepsilon$$
For the converse, assume that $H$ has a countable dense set ${h_j}$ with $j in mathbb N$ and that ${e_i}$ is an orthonormal basis with $i in mathbb N$. Now, try to reach a contradiction by assuming that the orthonormal basis is uncountable.
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
I get the theorem that you just proved, but i think that there s a simple response to my question (without using density) because $F$ is just an uncoutable orthonormal set.
$endgroup$
– Anas BOUALII
Dec 13 '18 at 18:56
$begingroup$
You do need to use density, but the answer is pretty straightforward. See below.
$endgroup$
– Matematleta
Dec 13 '18 at 22:43
add a comment |
$begingroup$
You can prove (or consider) the reverse, meaning the statement/lemma :
Let $H$ be an infinite dimensional Hilbert space. Then, $H$ has a countable orthonormal basis if and only if $H$ has a dense countable set.
To prove that, I will note some quick hints.
First let us assume that $H$ has a countable orthonormal basis ${e_n}$. Then any $x in H$ can be uniquely written as :
$$x = sum_{n=1}^infty langle x,e_nrangle e_n$$
But, such $x$ can be written as a linear combination of rationals
$$x = sum_{n=1}^m q_ne_n$$
since the set $mathbb Q + mathbb Qi$ is a countable and dense subset of $mathbb C$.
Consider now the set :
$$D_n = bigg{d_n = sum_{n=1}^m q_ne_n, ; q_n in mathbb Q + mathbb Qibigg}$$
Then the set $D$ defined as
$$D = bigcup_{n=1} D_n$$
is countable as a union of countable sets.
Now you need to show that $D$ is also dense. But, note that since the
$$x = sum_{n=1}^infty langle x,e_nrangle e_n$$
converges, its partial sum serie should also converge, thus
$$left| sumlimits_{n=N+1} langle x,e_nrangle e_nright|< frac{varepsilon}{2}$$
for $N in mathbb N$ sufficiently large and $varepsilon >0$.
Now, keep in mind that $mathbb Q + mathbb Qi$ is not only countable, but dense and use the Triangle Inequality and Parseval's Inequality to prove that :
$$left| sum_{n=1}^infty langle x,e_nrangle e_n - sum_{n=1}^N q_ie_n right| < varepsilon$$
For the converse, assume that $H$ has a countable dense set ${h_j}$ with $j in mathbb N$ and that ${e_i}$ is an orthonormal basis with $i in mathbb N$. Now, try to reach a contradiction by assuming that the orthonormal basis is uncountable.
$endgroup$
$begingroup$
I get the theorem that you just proved, but i think that there s a simple response to my question (without using density) because $F$ is just an uncoutable orthonormal set.
$endgroup$
– Anas BOUALII
Dec 13 '18 at 18:56
$begingroup$
You do need to use density, but the answer is pretty straightforward. See below.
$endgroup$
– Matematleta
Dec 13 '18 at 22:43
add a comment |
$begingroup$
You can prove (or consider) the reverse, meaning the statement/lemma :
Let $H$ be an infinite dimensional Hilbert space. Then, $H$ has a countable orthonormal basis if and only if $H$ has a dense countable set.
To prove that, I will note some quick hints.
First let us assume that $H$ has a countable orthonormal basis ${e_n}$. Then any $x in H$ can be uniquely written as :
$$x = sum_{n=1}^infty langle x,e_nrangle e_n$$
But, such $x$ can be written as a linear combination of rationals
$$x = sum_{n=1}^m q_ne_n$$
since the set $mathbb Q + mathbb Qi$ is a countable and dense subset of $mathbb C$.
Consider now the set :
$$D_n = bigg{d_n = sum_{n=1}^m q_ne_n, ; q_n in mathbb Q + mathbb Qibigg}$$
Then the set $D$ defined as
$$D = bigcup_{n=1} D_n$$
is countable as a union of countable sets.
Now you need to show that $D$ is also dense. But, note that since the
$$x = sum_{n=1}^infty langle x,e_nrangle e_n$$
converges, its partial sum serie should also converge, thus
$$left| sumlimits_{n=N+1} langle x,e_nrangle e_nright|< frac{varepsilon}{2}$$
for $N in mathbb N$ sufficiently large and $varepsilon >0$.
Now, keep in mind that $mathbb Q + mathbb Qi$ is not only countable, but dense and use the Triangle Inequality and Parseval's Inequality to prove that :
$$left| sum_{n=1}^infty langle x,e_nrangle e_n - sum_{n=1}^N q_ie_n right| < varepsilon$$
For the converse, assume that $H$ has a countable dense set ${h_j}$ with $j in mathbb N$ and that ${e_i}$ is an orthonormal basis with $i in mathbb N$. Now, try to reach a contradiction by assuming that the orthonormal basis is uncountable.
$endgroup$
You can prove (or consider) the reverse, meaning the statement/lemma :
Let $H$ be an infinite dimensional Hilbert space. Then, $H$ has a countable orthonormal basis if and only if $H$ has a dense countable set.
To prove that, I will note some quick hints.
First let us assume that $H$ has a countable orthonormal basis ${e_n}$. Then any $x in H$ can be uniquely written as :
$$x = sum_{n=1}^infty langle x,e_nrangle e_n$$
But, such $x$ can be written as a linear combination of rationals
$$x = sum_{n=1}^m q_ne_n$$
since the set $mathbb Q + mathbb Qi$ is a countable and dense subset of $mathbb C$.
Consider now the set :
$$D_n = bigg{d_n = sum_{n=1}^m q_ne_n, ; q_n in mathbb Q + mathbb Qibigg}$$
Then the set $D$ defined as
$$D = bigcup_{n=1} D_n$$
is countable as a union of countable sets.
Now you need to show that $D$ is also dense. But, note that since the
$$x = sum_{n=1}^infty langle x,e_nrangle e_n$$
converges, its partial sum serie should also converge, thus
$$left| sumlimits_{n=N+1} langle x,e_nrangle e_nright|< frac{varepsilon}{2}$$
for $N in mathbb N$ sufficiently large and $varepsilon >0$.
Now, keep in mind that $mathbb Q + mathbb Qi$ is not only countable, but dense and use the Triangle Inequality and Parseval's Inequality to prove that :
$$left| sum_{n=1}^infty langle x,e_nrangle e_n - sum_{n=1}^N q_ie_n right| < varepsilon$$
For the converse, assume that $H$ has a countable dense set ${h_j}$ with $j in mathbb N$ and that ${e_i}$ is an orthonormal basis with $i in mathbb N$. Now, try to reach a contradiction by assuming that the orthonormal basis is uncountable.
edited Dec 13 '18 at 18:51
daw
24.3k1645
24.3k1645
answered Dec 13 '18 at 18:44
RebellosRebellos
14.6k31247
14.6k31247
$begingroup$
I get the theorem that you just proved, but i think that there s a simple response to my question (without using density) because $F$ is just an uncoutable orthonormal set.
$endgroup$
– Anas BOUALII
Dec 13 '18 at 18:56
$begingroup$
You do need to use density, but the answer is pretty straightforward. See below.
$endgroup$
– Matematleta
Dec 13 '18 at 22:43
add a comment |
$begingroup$
I get the theorem that you just proved, but i think that there s a simple response to my question (without using density) because $F$ is just an uncoutable orthonormal set.
$endgroup$
– Anas BOUALII
Dec 13 '18 at 18:56
$begingroup$
You do need to use density, but the answer is pretty straightforward. See below.
$endgroup$
– Matematleta
Dec 13 '18 at 22:43
$begingroup$
I get the theorem that you just proved, but i think that there s a simple response to my question (without using density) because $F$ is just an uncoutable orthonormal set.
$endgroup$
– Anas BOUALII
Dec 13 '18 at 18:56
$begingroup$
I get the theorem that you just proved, but i think that there s a simple response to my question (without using density) because $F$ is just an uncoutable orthonormal set.
$endgroup$
– Anas BOUALII
Dec 13 '18 at 18:56
$begingroup$
You do need to use density, but the answer is pretty straightforward. See below.
$endgroup$
– Matematleta
Dec 13 '18 at 22:43
$begingroup$
You do need to use density, but the answer is pretty straightforward. See below.
$endgroup$
– Matematleta
Dec 13 '18 at 22:43
add a comment |
$begingroup$
If $left { e_n:nin mathbb N right }$ is an orthonormal basis for $mathcal H$, then $left { sum_{k=0}^{N}q_k+ir_k:q_k,r_kin mathbb Q,Nin mathbb N right }$ ia a countable dense subset.
If $mathcal H$ has an uncountable orthonormal basis, say, $left { e_{alpha}:alphain Lambda right }$ and a dense subset $D$, then, since $|e_{alpha}-e_{beta}|^2=2$ whenever $alpha neq beta$, the balls $B(alpha,sqrt2/2)$ are disjoint and so since each of them must contain a point $x_{alpha}in D$, the map $alphato x_{alpha}$ shows that $D$ is uncountable.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
If $left { e_n:nin mathbb N right }$ is an orthonormal basis for $mathcal H$, then $left { sum_{k=0}^{N}q_k+ir_k:q_k,r_kin mathbb Q,Nin mathbb N right }$ ia a countable dense subset.
If $mathcal H$ has an uncountable orthonormal basis, say, $left { e_{alpha}:alphain Lambda right }$ and a dense subset $D$, then, since $|e_{alpha}-e_{beta}|^2=2$ whenever $alpha neq beta$, the balls $B(alpha,sqrt2/2)$ are disjoint and so since each of them must contain a point $x_{alpha}in D$, the map $alphato x_{alpha}$ shows that $D$ is uncountable.
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
If $left { e_n:nin mathbb N right }$ is an orthonormal basis for $mathcal H$, then $left { sum_{k=0}^{N}q_k+ir_k:q_k,r_kin mathbb Q,Nin mathbb N right }$ ia a countable dense subset.
If $mathcal H$ has an uncountable orthonormal basis, say, $left { e_{alpha}:alphain Lambda right }$ and a dense subset $D$, then, since $|e_{alpha}-e_{beta}|^2=2$ whenever $alpha neq beta$, the balls $B(alpha,sqrt2/2)$ are disjoint and so since each of them must contain a point $x_{alpha}in D$, the map $alphato x_{alpha}$ shows that $D$ is uncountable.
$endgroup$
If $left { e_n:nin mathbb N right }$ is an orthonormal basis for $mathcal H$, then $left { sum_{k=0}^{N}q_k+ir_k:q_k,r_kin mathbb Q,Nin mathbb N right }$ ia a countable dense subset.
If $mathcal H$ has an uncountable orthonormal basis, say, $left { e_{alpha}:alphain Lambda right }$ and a dense subset $D$, then, since $|e_{alpha}-e_{beta}|^2=2$ whenever $alpha neq beta$, the balls $B(alpha,sqrt2/2)$ are disjoint and so since each of them must contain a point $x_{alpha}in D$, the map $alphato x_{alpha}$ shows that $D$ is uncountable.
answered Dec 13 '18 at 22:36
MatematletaMatematleta
10.8k2918
10.8k2918
add a comment |
add a comment |
$begingroup$
I already wrote this in a comment under an answer but that answer was erased, and it seems to be this is the easiest answer, unless I'm missing something basic: a set of orthonormal vectors in any inner product space, and thus also in Hilbert spaces, is linearly independent (reasonably easy proof), and thus in your question $;F;$ is a lin. indpendent set, which means $;dim Hge|F|ge 2^{aleph_0};$ , and since all the basis of a vector space (or Hilbert space) have the same cardinality we're through.
The above remains true taking closures of spans and stuff, as far as I see it...
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
I already wrote this in a comment under an answer but that answer was erased, and it seems to be this is the easiest answer, unless I'm missing something basic: a set of orthonormal vectors in any inner product space, and thus also in Hilbert spaces, is linearly independent (reasonably easy proof), and thus in your question $;F;$ is a lin. indpendent set, which means $;dim Hge|F|ge 2^{aleph_0};$ , and since all the basis of a vector space (or Hilbert space) have the same cardinality we're through.
The above remains true taking closures of spans and stuff, as far as I see it...
$endgroup$
add a comment |
$begingroup$
I already wrote this in a comment under an answer but that answer was erased, and it seems to be this is the easiest answer, unless I'm missing something basic: a set of orthonormal vectors in any inner product space, and thus also in Hilbert spaces, is linearly independent (reasonably easy proof), and thus in your question $;F;$ is a lin. indpendent set, which means $;dim Hge|F|ge 2^{aleph_0};$ , and since all the basis of a vector space (or Hilbert space) have the same cardinality we're through.
The above remains true taking closures of spans and stuff, as far as I see it...
$endgroup$
I already wrote this in a comment under an answer but that answer was erased, and it seems to be this is the easiest answer, unless I'm missing something basic: a set of orthonormal vectors in any inner product space, and thus also in Hilbert spaces, is linearly independent (reasonably easy proof), and thus in your question $;F;$ is a lin. indpendent set, which means $;dim Hge|F|ge 2^{aleph_0};$ , and since all the basis of a vector space (or Hilbert space) have the same cardinality we're through.
The above remains true taking closures of spans and stuff, as far as I see it...
answered Dec 13 '18 at 23:21
DonAntonioDonAntonio
178k1494230
178k1494230
add a comment |
add a comment |
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$begingroup$
What are your thoughts on this?
$endgroup$
– MisterRiemann
Dec 13 '18 at 18:17