Characterization of weak convergence in $ell^p$











up vote
1
down vote

favorite












I am a tutor for functional analysis and the students are supposed to show the here to be found characterization for weak convergence in $ell^p$, $1<p<infty$.



I am fully aware of a correct solution but I found the following approach and did not see whether this is fixable.



Let $varphi in (ell^p)'simeq ell^q$ be arbitrary.
Then we can write $varphi(z)=sum_{i=1}^infty z^{(i)}y^{(i)}$ for suitable $y=(y^{(i)})in ell^q$.
Then we have (EDIT:Note that $(x_n)$ is bounded in $ell^p$):
$$
lim_{nto infty} varphi(x_n)=lim_{nto infty} sum_{i=1}^infty x_n^{(i)}y^{(i)}.
$$



Now, the student is trying get the limit inside of the integral, saying that the sum converges uniformly and the limit is bounded independently of $n$.
Nevertheless, I am not aware of a theorem which would allow use, moreover, the counterexample for the case $p=1$ shows that for general $p$ this is not valid.



Now, my question is whether we can fix this for $p>1$. The first thing that came to my mind was to try to apply dominated convergence but I did not manage to do so.



I am happy for any insights also for showing that this cannot not be fixed.










share|cite|improve this question




























    up vote
    1
    down vote

    favorite












    I am a tutor for functional analysis and the students are supposed to show the here to be found characterization for weak convergence in $ell^p$, $1<p<infty$.



    I am fully aware of a correct solution but I found the following approach and did not see whether this is fixable.



    Let $varphi in (ell^p)'simeq ell^q$ be arbitrary.
    Then we can write $varphi(z)=sum_{i=1}^infty z^{(i)}y^{(i)}$ for suitable $y=(y^{(i)})in ell^q$.
    Then we have (EDIT:Note that $(x_n)$ is bounded in $ell^p$):
    $$
    lim_{nto infty} varphi(x_n)=lim_{nto infty} sum_{i=1}^infty x_n^{(i)}y^{(i)}.
    $$



    Now, the student is trying get the limit inside of the integral, saying that the sum converges uniformly and the limit is bounded independently of $n$.
    Nevertheless, I am not aware of a theorem which would allow use, moreover, the counterexample for the case $p=1$ shows that for general $p$ this is not valid.



    Now, my question is whether we can fix this for $p>1$. The first thing that came to my mind was to try to apply dominated convergence but I did not manage to do so.



    I am happy for any insights also for showing that this cannot not be fixed.










    share|cite|improve this question


























      up vote
      1
      down vote

      favorite









      up vote
      1
      down vote

      favorite











      I am a tutor for functional analysis and the students are supposed to show the here to be found characterization for weak convergence in $ell^p$, $1<p<infty$.



      I am fully aware of a correct solution but I found the following approach and did not see whether this is fixable.



      Let $varphi in (ell^p)'simeq ell^q$ be arbitrary.
      Then we can write $varphi(z)=sum_{i=1}^infty z^{(i)}y^{(i)}$ for suitable $y=(y^{(i)})in ell^q$.
      Then we have (EDIT:Note that $(x_n)$ is bounded in $ell^p$):
      $$
      lim_{nto infty} varphi(x_n)=lim_{nto infty} sum_{i=1}^infty x_n^{(i)}y^{(i)}.
      $$



      Now, the student is trying get the limit inside of the integral, saying that the sum converges uniformly and the limit is bounded independently of $n$.
      Nevertheless, I am not aware of a theorem which would allow use, moreover, the counterexample for the case $p=1$ shows that for general $p$ this is not valid.



      Now, my question is whether we can fix this for $p>1$. The first thing that came to my mind was to try to apply dominated convergence but I did not manage to do so.



      I am happy for any insights also for showing that this cannot not be fixed.










      share|cite|improve this question















      I am a tutor for functional analysis and the students are supposed to show the here to be found characterization for weak convergence in $ell^p$, $1<p<infty$.



      I am fully aware of a correct solution but I found the following approach and did not see whether this is fixable.



      Let $varphi in (ell^p)'simeq ell^q$ be arbitrary.
      Then we can write $varphi(z)=sum_{i=1}^infty z^{(i)}y^{(i)}$ for suitable $y=(y^{(i)})in ell^q$.
      Then we have (EDIT:Note that $(x_n)$ is bounded in $ell^p$):
      $$
      lim_{nto infty} varphi(x_n)=lim_{nto infty} sum_{i=1}^infty x_n^{(i)}y^{(i)}.
      $$



      Now, the student is trying get the limit inside of the integral, saying that the sum converges uniformly and the limit is bounded independently of $n$.
      Nevertheless, I am not aware of a theorem which would allow use, moreover, the counterexample for the case $p=1$ shows that for general $p$ this is not valid.



      Now, my question is whether we can fix this for $p>1$. The first thing that came to my mind was to try to apply dominated convergence but I did not manage to do so.



      I am happy for any insights also for showing that this cannot not be fixed.







      sequences-and-series functional-analysis lp-spaces






      share|cite|improve this question















      share|cite|improve this question













      share|cite|improve this question




      share|cite|improve this question








      edited Nov 24 at 18:30

























      asked Nov 24 at 16:28









      Jonas Lenz

      503212




      503212






















          1 Answer
          1






          active

          oldest

          votes

















          up vote
          0
          down vote













          If the argument would be valid, it would allow to show that the sequence of sequences $x_n = n , e_n$, where $e_n$ is the n'th unit sequence, would converge weakly to zero in $ell^p$.
          Indeed, $lim_{ntoinfty} x_n^{(i) }= 0$ for all fixed $n$. Thus, the wrong argument would imply
          $$lim_{ntoinfty}varphi(x_n) = 0.$$



          However, $x_n$ cannot converge weakly since it is not bounded.






          share|cite|improve this answer





















          • Thanks, but we have a boundedness condition on $(x_n)$. So we already know that the sequence $(x_n)$ is bounded. Maybe I should have written this explicitly.
            – Jonas Lenz
            Nov 24 at 18:15










          • But then, it is not clear what exactly you are asking. Jokingly, we could do the following: (DANGER: circlurar reasoning): The assumptions on the sequence $x_n$ implies the weak convergence $x_n rightharpoonup x$. Hence, $sum_i lim_n x_n^i y^i = varphi(x) = lim_n varphi(x_n) = lim_n sum_i x_n^i y^i$. Thus, we can interchange the sum and the limit.
            – gerw
            Nov 24 at 18:24












          • I am aware of the fact, that the assumptions imply the weak convergence. My question is about whether we can fix the above approach to try to get the limit inside the sum by using some nice argument for $1<p<infty$.
            – Jonas Lenz
            Nov 24 at 18:30












          • I think you misunderstood my comment. What I tried to say was the following: You can fix the argument (but this fix is totally silly!) by first showing $x_n rightharpoonup x$ (by using other arguments). Then, you can use this weak convergence to interchange the sum and the limit and, thus, you arrive (again!) at the weak convergence $x_n rightharpoonup x$. In this spirit: In the above situation, one can interchange the sum and the limit (and this is equivalent to the weak convergence), but the student did fail to give the correct argument.
            – gerw
            Nov 24 at 18:34










          • I see that point. Then I probably formulated my question badly. I am interested in knowing whether it is possible to get the limit inside without showing weak convergence first and then saying, ah now that it converges weakly, we get the limit inside. Or in other words, is there a way that the above approach helps to show weak convergence.
            – Jonas Lenz
            Nov 24 at 18:39











          Your Answer





          StackExchange.ifUsing("editor", function () {
          return StackExchange.using("mathjaxEditing", function () {
          StackExchange.MarkdownEditor.creationCallbacks.add(function (editor, postfix) {
          StackExchange.mathjaxEditing.prepareWmdForMathJax(editor, postfix, [["$", "$"], ["\\(","\\)"]]);
          });
          });
          }, "mathjax-editing");

          StackExchange.ready(function() {
          var channelOptions = {
          tags: "".split(" "),
          id: "69"
          };
          initTagRenderer("".split(" "), "".split(" "), channelOptions);

          StackExchange.using("externalEditor", function() {
          // Have to fire editor after snippets, if snippets enabled
          if (StackExchange.settings.snippets.snippetsEnabled) {
          StackExchange.using("snippets", function() {
          createEditor();
          });
          }
          else {
          createEditor();
          }
          });

          function createEditor() {
          StackExchange.prepareEditor({
          heartbeatType: 'answer',
          convertImagesToLinks: true,
          noModals: true,
          showLowRepImageUploadWarning: true,
          reputationToPostImages: 10,
          bindNavPrevention: true,
          postfix: "",
          imageUploader: {
          brandingHtml: "Powered by u003ca class="icon-imgur-white" href="https://imgur.com/"u003eu003c/au003e",
          contentPolicyHtml: "User contributions licensed under u003ca href="https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/"u003ecc by-sa 3.0 with attribution requiredu003c/au003e u003ca href="https://stackoverflow.com/legal/content-policy"u003e(content policy)u003c/au003e",
          allowUrls: true
          },
          noCode: true, onDemand: true,
          discardSelector: ".discard-answer"
          ,immediatelyShowMarkdownHelp:true
          });


          }
          });














          draft saved

          draft discarded


















          StackExchange.ready(
          function () {
          StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fmath.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f3011757%2fcharacterization-of-weak-convergence-in-ellp%23new-answer', 'question_page');
          }
          );

          Post as a guest















          Required, but never shown

























          1 Answer
          1






          active

          oldest

          votes








          1 Answer
          1






          active

          oldest

          votes









          active

          oldest

          votes






          active

          oldest

          votes








          up vote
          0
          down vote













          If the argument would be valid, it would allow to show that the sequence of sequences $x_n = n , e_n$, where $e_n$ is the n'th unit sequence, would converge weakly to zero in $ell^p$.
          Indeed, $lim_{ntoinfty} x_n^{(i) }= 0$ for all fixed $n$. Thus, the wrong argument would imply
          $$lim_{ntoinfty}varphi(x_n) = 0.$$



          However, $x_n$ cannot converge weakly since it is not bounded.






          share|cite|improve this answer





















          • Thanks, but we have a boundedness condition on $(x_n)$. So we already know that the sequence $(x_n)$ is bounded. Maybe I should have written this explicitly.
            – Jonas Lenz
            Nov 24 at 18:15










          • But then, it is not clear what exactly you are asking. Jokingly, we could do the following: (DANGER: circlurar reasoning): The assumptions on the sequence $x_n$ implies the weak convergence $x_n rightharpoonup x$. Hence, $sum_i lim_n x_n^i y^i = varphi(x) = lim_n varphi(x_n) = lim_n sum_i x_n^i y^i$. Thus, we can interchange the sum and the limit.
            – gerw
            Nov 24 at 18:24












          • I am aware of the fact, that the assumptions imply the weak convergence. My question is about whether we can fix the above approach to try to get the limit inside the sum by using some nice argument for $1<p<infty$.
            – Jonas Lenz
            Nov 24 at 18:30












          • I think you misunderstood my comment. What I tried to say was the following: You can fix the argument (but this fix is totally silly!) by first showing $x_n rightharpoonup x$ (by using other arguments). Then, you can use this weak convergence to interchange the sum and the limit and, thus, you arrive (again!) at the weak convergence $x_n rightharpoonup x$. In this spirit: In the above situation, one can interchange the sum and the limit (and this is equivalent to the weak convergence), but the student did fail to give the correct argument.
            – gerw
            Nov 24 at 18:34










          • I see that point. Then I probably formulated my question badly. I am interested in knowing whether it is possible to get the limit inside without showing weak convergence first and then saying, ah now that it converges weakly, we get the limit inside. Or in other words, is there a way that the above approach helps to show weak convergence.
            – Jonas Lenz
            Nov 24 at 18:39















          up vote
          0
          down vote













          If the argument would be valid, it would allow to show that the sequence of sequences $x_n = n , e_n$, where $e_n$ is the n'th unit sequence, would converge weakly to zero in $ell^p$.
          Indeed, $lim_{ntoinfty} x_n^{(i) }= 0$ for all fixed $n$. Thus, the wrong argument would imply
          $$lim_{ntoinfty}varphi(x_n) = 0.$$



          However, $x_n$ cannot converge weakly since it is not bounded.






          share|cite|improve this answer





















          • Thanks, but we have a boundedness condition on $(x_n)$. So we already know that the sequence $(x_n)$ is bounded. Maybe I should have written this explicitly.
            – Jonas Lenz
            Nov 24 at 18:15










          • But then, it is not clear what exactly you are asking. Jokingly, we could do the following: (DANGER: circlurar reasoning): The assumptions on the sequence $x_n$ implies the weak convergence $x_n rightharpoonup x$. Hence, $sum_i lim_n x_n^i y^i = varphi(x) = lim_n varphi(x_n) = lim_n sum_i x_n^i y^i$. Thus, we can interchange the sum and the limit.
            – gerw
            Nov 24 at 18:24












          • I am aware of the fact, that the assumptions imply the weak convergence. My question is about whether we can fix the above approach to try to get the limit inside the sum by using some nice argument for $1<p<infty$.
            – Jonas Lenz
            Nov 24 at 18:30












          • I think you misunderstood my comment. What I tried to say was the following: You can fix the argument (but this fix is totally silly!) by first showing $x_n rightharpoonup x$ (by using other arguments). Then, you can use this weak convergence to interchange the sum and the limit and, thus, you arrive (again!) at the weak convergence $x_n rightharpoonup x$. In this spirit: In the above situation, one can interchange the sum and the limit (and this is equivalent to the weak convergence), but the student did fail to give the correct argument.
            – gerw
            Nov 24 at 18:34










          • I see that point. Then I probably formulated my question badly. I am interested in knowing whether it is possible to get the limit inside without showing weak convergence first and then saying, ah now that it converges weakly, we get the limit inside. Or in other words, is there a way that the above approach helps to show weak convergence.
            – Jonas Lenz
            Nov 24 at 18:39













          up vote
          0
          down vote










          up vote
          0
          down vote









          If the argument would be valid, it would allow to show that the sequence of sequences $x_n = n , e_n$, where $e_n$ is the n'th unit sequence, would converge weakly to zero in $ell^p$.
          Indeed, $lim_{ntoinfty} x_n^{(i) }= 0$ for all fixed $n$. Thus, the wrong argument would imply
          $$lim_{ntoinfty}varphi(x_n) = 0.$$



          However, $x_n$ cannot converge weakly since it is not bounded.






          share|cite|improve this answer












          If the argument would be valid, it would allow to show that the sequence of sequences $x_n = n , e_n$, where $e_n$ is the n'th unit sequence, would converge weakly to zero in $ell^p$.
          Indeed, $lim_{ntoinfty} x_n^{(i) }= 0$ for all fixed $n$. Thus, the wrong argument would imply
          $$lim_{ntoinfty}varphi(x_n) = 0.$$



          However, $x_n$ cannot converge weakly since it is not bounded.







          share|cite|improve this answer












          share|cite|improve this answer



          share|cite|improve this answer










          answered Nov 24 at 17:25









          gerw

          18.9k11133




          18.9k11133












          • Thanks, but we have a boundedness condition on $(x_n)$. So we already know that the sequence $(x_n)$ is bounded. Maybe I should have written this explicitly.
            – Jonas Lenz
            Nov 24 at 18:15










          • But then, it is not clear what exactly you are asking. Jokingly, we could do the following: (DANGER: circlurar reasoning): The assumptions on the sequence $x_n$ implies the weak convergence $x_n rightharpoonup x$. Hence, $sum_i lim_n x_n^i y^i = varphi(x) = lim_n varphi(x_n) = lim_n sum_i x_n^i y^i$. Thus, we can interchange the sum and the limit.
            – gerw
            Nov 24 at 18:24












          • I am aware of the fact, that the assumptions imply the weak convergence. My question is about whether we can fix the above approach to try to get the limit inside the sum by using some nice argument for $1<p<infty$.
            – Jonas Lenz
            Nov 24 at 18:30












          • I think you misunderstood my comment. What I tried to say was the following: You can fix the argument (but this fix is totally silly!) by first showing $x_n rightharpoonup x$ (by using other arguments). Then, you can use this weak convergence to interchange the sum and the limit and, thus, you arrive (again!) at the weak convergence $x_n rightharpoonup x$. In this spirit: In the above situation, one can interchange the sum and the limit (and this is equivalent to the weak convergence), but the student did fail to give the correct argument.
            – gerw
            Nov 24 at 18:34










          • I see that point. Then I probably formulated my question badly. I am interested in knowing whether it is possible to get the limit inside without showing weak convergence first and then saying, ah now that it converges weakly, we get the limit inside. Or in other words, is there a way that the above approach helps to show weak convergence.
            – Jonas Lenz
            Nov 24 at 18:39


















          • Thanks, but we have a boundedness condition on $(x_n)$. So we already know that the sequence $(x_n)$ is bounded. Maybe I should have written this explicitly.
            – Jonas Lenz
            Nov 24 at 18:15










          • But then, it is not clear what exactly you are asking. Jokingly, we could do the following: (DANGER: circlurar reasoning): The assumptions on the sequence $x_n$ implies the weak convergence $x_n rightharpoonup x$. Hence, $sum_i lim_n x_n^i y^i = varphi(x) = lim_n varphi(x_n) = lim_n sum_i x_n^i y^i$. Thus, we can interchange the sum and the limit.
            – gerw
            Nov 24 at 18:24












          • I am aware of the fact, that the assumptions imply the weak convergence. My question is about whether we can fix the above approach to try to get the limit inside the sum by using some nice argument for $1<p<infty$.
            – Jonas Lenz
            Nov 24 at 18:30












          • I think you misunderstood my comment. What I tried to say was the following: You can fix the argument (but this fix is totally silly!) by first showing $x_n rightharpoonup x$ (by using other arguments). Then, you can use this weak convergence to interchange the sum and the limit and, thus, you arrive (again!) at the weak convergence $x_n rightharpoonup x$. In this spirit: In the above situation, one can interchange the sum and the limit (and this is equivalent to the weak convergence), but the student did fail to give the correct argument.
            – gerw
            Nov 24 at 18:34










          • I see that point. Then I probably formulated my question badly. I am interested in knowing whether it is possible to get the limit inside without showing weak convergence first and then saying, ah now that it converges weakly, we get the limit inside. Or in other words, is there a way that the above approach helps to show weak convergence.
            – Jonas Lenz
            Nov 24 at 18:39
















          Thanks, but we have a boundedness condition on $(x_n)$. So we already know that the sequence $(x_n)$ is bounded. Maybe I should have written this explicitly.
          – Jonas Lenz
          Nov 24 at 18:15




          Thanks, but we have a boundedness condition on $(x_n)$. So we already know that the sequence $(x_n)$ is bounded. Maybe I should have written this explicitly.
          – Jonas Lenz
          Nov 24 at 18:15












          But then, it is not clear what exactly you are asking. Jokingly, we could do the following: (DANGER: circlurar reasoning): The assumptions on the sequence $x_n$ implies the weak convergence $x_n rightharpoonup x$. Hence, $sum_i lim_n x_n^i y^i = varphi(x) = lim_n varphi(x_n) = lim_n sum_i x_n^i y^i$. Thus, we can interchange the sum and the limit.
          – gerw
          Nov 24 at 18:24






          But then, it is not clear what exactly you are asking. Jokingly, we could do the following: (DANGER: circlurar reasoning): The assumptions on the sequence $x_n$ implies the weak convergence $x_n rightharpoonup x$. Hence, $sum_i lim_n x_n^i y^i = varphi(x) = lim_n varphi(x_n) = lim_n sum_i x_n^i y^i$. Thus, we can interchange the sum and the limit.
          – gerw
          Nov 24 at 18:24














          I am aware of the fact, that the assumptions imply the weak convergence. My question is about whether we can fix the above approach to try to get the limit inside the sum by using some nice argument for $1<p<infty$.
          – Jonas Lenz
          Nov 24 at 18:30






          I am aware of the fact, that the assumptions imply the weak convergence. My question is about whether we can fix the above approach to try to get the limit inside the sum by using some nice argument for $1<p<infty$.
          – Jonas Lenz
          Nov 24 at 18:30














          I think you misunderstood my comment. What I tried to say was the following: You can fix the argument (but this fix is totally silly!) by first showing $x_n rightharpoonup x$ (by using other arguments). Then, you can use this weak convergence to interchange the sum and the limit and, thus, you arrive (again!) at the weak convergence $x_n rightharpoonup x$. In this spirit: In the above situation, one can interchange the sum and the limit (and this is equivalent to the weak convergence), but the student did fail to give the correct argument.
          – gerw
          Nov 24 at 18:34




          I think you misunderstood my comment. What I tried to say was the following: You can fix the argument (but this fix is totally silly!) by first showing $x_n rightharpoonup x$ (by using other arguments). Then, you can use this weak convergence to interchange the sum and the limit and, thus, you arrive (again!) at the weak convergence $x_n rightharpoonup x$. In this spirit: In the above situation, one can interchange the sum and the limit (and this is equivalent to the weak convergence), but the student did fail to give the correct argument.
          – gerw
          Nov 24 at 18:34












          I see that point. Then I probably formulated my question badly. I am interested in knowing whether it is possible to get the limit inside without showing weak convergence first and then saying, ah now that it converges weakly, we get the limit inside. Or in other words, is there a way that the above approach helps to show weak convergence.
          – Jonas Lenz
          Nov 24 at 18:39




          I see that point. Then I probably formulated my question badly. I am interested in knowing whether it is possible to get the limit inside without showing weak convergence first and then saying, ah now that it converges weakly, we get the limit inside. Or in other words, is there a way that the above approach helps to show weak convergence.
          – Jonas Lenz
          Nov 24 at 18:39


















          draft saved

          draft discarded




















































          Thanks for contributing an answer to Mathematics Stack Exchange!


          • Please be sure to answer the question. Provide details and share your research!

          But avoid



          • Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers.

          • Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience.


          Use MathJax to format equations. MathJax reference.


          To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers.





          Some of your past answers have not been well-received, and you're in danger of being blocked from answering.


          Please pay close attention to the following guidance:


          • Please be sure to answer the question. Provide details and share your research!

          But avoid



          • Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers.

          • Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience.


          To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers.




          draft saved


          draft discarded














          StackExchange.ready(
          function () {
          StackExchange.openid.initPostLogin('.new-post-login', 'https%3a%2f%2fmath.stackexchange.com%2fquestions%2f3011757%2fcharacterization-of-weak-convergence-in-ellp%23new-answer', 'question_page');
          }
          );

          Post as a guest















          Required, but never shown





















































          Required, but never shown














          Required, but never shown












          Required, but never shown







          Required, but never shown

































          Required, but never shown














          Required, but never shown












          Required, but never shown







          Required, but never shown







          Popular posts from this blog

          Wiesbaden

          Marschland

          Dieringhausen