what is $lim_limits{x to infty}frac{ln(x)}{ln(x+sin(x))}$
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The textbook question is to solve this: $lim_{x to infty}=frac{ln(x)}{ln(x+sin(x))}$
I divide by $ln(x)$ and find :
$$lim_{x to infty}=frac{1}{1+frac{ln(sin(x))}{ln(x)}}$$
The answer is $1$ but i dont see how $lim_{x to infty}=1+frac{ln(sin(x))}{ln(x)}= 1$ because I thought $ln(sin(x)$ was undefined?
calculus
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up vote
0
down vote
favorite
The textbook question is to solve this: $lim_{x to infty}=frac{ln(x)}{ln(x+sin(x))}$
I divide by $ln(x)$ and find :
$$lim_{x to infty}=frac{1}{1+frac{ln(sin(x))}{ln(x)}}$$
The answer is $1$ but i dont see how $lim_{x to infty}=1+frac{ln(sin(x))}{ln(x)}= 1$ because I thought $ln(sin(x)$ was undefined?
calculus
add a comment |
up vote
0
down vote
favorite
up vote
0
down vote
favorite
The textbook question is to solve this: $lim_{x to infty}=frac{ln(x)}{ln(x+sin(x))}$
I divide by $ln(x)$ and find :
$$lim_{x to infty}=frac{1}{1+frac{ln(sin(x))}{ln(x)}}$$
The answer is $1$ but i dont see how $lim_{x to infty}=1+frac{ln(sin(x))}{ln(x)}= 1$ because I thought $ln(sin(x)$ was undefined?
calculus
The textbook question is to solve this: $lim_{x to infty}=frac{ln(x)}{ln(x+sin(x))}$
I divide by $ln(x)$ and find :
$$lim_{x to infty}=frac{1}{1+frac{ln(sin(x))}{ln(x)}}$$
The answer is $1$ but i dont see how $lim_{x to infty}=1+frac{ln(sin(x))}{ln(x)}= 1$ because I thought $ln(sin(x)$ was undefined?
calculus
calculus
edited Oct 6 at 18:44
gammatester
16.6k21631
16.6k21631
asked Oct 6 at 18:23
Curl
7414
7414
add a comment |
add a comment |
3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
up vote
2
down vote
accepted
Maybe a possible simple way (without using things like Hospital rule):
$$
frac{ln{(x)}}{ln{(x+sin{(x)})}}=frac{ln{(x)}}{ln{(x(1+frac{sin{(x)}}{x}))}}=frac{1}{1+frac{ln{(1+frac{sin{(x)}}{x})}}{ln{x}}}
$$
Now what is the limit of
$$
lim_{xrightarrowinfty}frac{ln{(1+frac{sin{(x)}}{x})}}{ln{x}} = ?
$$
Then you can deduce the limit of:
$$
lim_{xrightarrowinfty}frac{1}{1+frac{ln{(1+frac{sin{(x)}}{x})}}{ln{x}}}
$$
This is important to realize that you can write
$$
lim_{xrightarrowinfty}frac{1}{1+frac{ln{(1+frac{sin{(x)}}{x})}}{ln{x}}}=frac{1}{1+lim_{xrightarrowinfty}frac{ln{(1+frac{sin{(x)}}{x})}}{ln{x}}}
$$
only because $yrightarrow frac{1}{1+y}$ is continuous (around the limit value).
add a comment |
up vote
3
down vote
You appear to have wrongly assumed that $$ln(x+sin(x))=ln(x)+ln(sin(x)). $$
An easy way to evaluate this limit is to use the known bounds on the sine function.
So what you are saying is that ln(x+sin(x)) = ln(x) when x goes to infinite because sin(x) does not grow beyond -1 and 1?
– Curl
Oct 6 at 18:32
@Curl You can't use an $=$ sign here. I will agree if you replace it with $approx$.
– user1337
Oct 6 at 18:33
2
You can use $ln(x+sin x)= lnleft(xleft(1+frac{sin}{x}right)right) =ln(x)+lnleft(1+frac{sin}{x}right)$ where the last term goes to zero.
– gammatester
Oct 6 at 18:56
add a comment |
up vote
0
down vote
The answer that I gave (below) originally seemed reasonable. However, per back and forth with zhw. in the comments, I'm forced to conclude that his counterexample is valid. My original answer is therefore left as a flawed idea.
An alternative approach to Picaud Vincent's answer is to assume that if $dfrac{f(x)}{g(x)}rightarrow 1;$ as $xrightarrowinfty,;$ then $dfrac{text{ln}[f(x)]}{text{ln}[g(x)]}rightarrow 1.$
Let $f(x)=x;$ and $g(x)=x+text{sin}(x).;$ Since $text{sin}(x);$ is a bounded function, $;dfrac{f(x)}{g(x)}rightarrow 1;$ as $xrightarrowinfty.$
That's false: Let $fequiv1,g(x) = 1+1/x.$
– zhw.
Oct 6 at 19:40
@zhw. in your example, doesn't $dfrac{text{ln}(f)}{text{ln}(g)} rightarrow 1;$ as $xrightarrow infty?$
– user2661923
Oct 6 at 19:43
No, $ln f(x)equiv 0.$
– zhw.
Oct 6 at 20:25
@zhw. so when examining $dfrac{text{ln}(f)}{text{ln}(g)}; text{as}; xrightarrow infty,;$ the numerator is always 0 and the denominator approaches 0. From this, how does one compute $dfrac{text{ln}(f)}{text{ln}(g)} ; text{as}; xrightarrow infty?$
– user2661923
Oct 6 at 21:24
@zhw. I see it now, you're right. I will edit my answer accordingly.
– user2661923
Oct 6 at 21:47
add a comment |
3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
3 Answers
3
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
active
oldest
votes
up vote
2
down vote
accepted
Maybe a possible simple way (without using things like Hospital rule):
$$
frac{ln{(x)}}{ln{(x+sin{(x)})}}=frac{ln{(x)}}{ln{(x(1+frac{sin{(x)}}{x}))}}=frac{1}{1+frac{ln{(1+frac{sin{(x)}}{x})}}{ln{x}}}
$$
Now what is the limit of
$$
lim_{xrightarrowinfty}frac{ln{(1+frac{sin{(x)}}{x})}}{ln{x}} = ?
$$
Then you can deduce the limit of:
$$
lim_{xrightarrowinfty}frac{1}{1+frac{ln{(1+frac{sin{(x)}}{x})}}{ln{x}}}
$$
This is important to realize that you can write
$$
lim_{xrightarrowinfty}frac{1}{1+frac{ln{(1+frac{sin{(x)}}{x})}}{ln{x}}}=frac{1}{1+lim_{xrightarrowinfty}frac{ln{(1+frac{sin{(x)}}{x})}}{ln{x}}}
$$
only because $yrightarrow frac{1}{1+y}$ is continuous (around the limit value).
add a comment |
up vote
2
down vote
accepted
Maybe a possible simple way (without using things like Hospital rule):
$$
frac{ln{(x)}}{ln{(x+sin{(x)})}}=frac{ln{(x)}}{ln{(x(1+frac{sin{(x)}}{x}))}}=frac{1}{1+frac{ln{(1+frac{sin{(x)}}{x})}}{ln{x}}}
$$
Now what is the limit of
$$
lim_{xrightarrowinfty}frac{ln{(1+frac{sin{(x)}}{x})}}{ln{x}} = ?
$$
Then you can deduce the limit of:
$$
lim_{xrightarrowinfty}frac{1}{1+frac{ln{(1+frac{sin{(x)}}{x})}}{ln{x}}}
$$
This is important to realize that you can write
$$
lim_{xrightarrowinfty}frac{1}{1+frac{ln{(1+frac{sin{(x)}}{x})}}{ln{x}}}=frac{1}{1+lim_{xrightarrowinfty}frac{ln{(1+frac{sin{(x)}}{x})}}{ln{x}}}
$$
only because $yrightarrow frac{1}{1+y}$ is continuous (around the limit value).
add a comment |
up vote
2
down vote
accepted
up vote
2
down vote
accepted
Maybe a possible simple way (without using things like Hospital rule):
$$
frac{ln{(x)}}{ln{(x+sin{(x)})}}=frac{ln{(x)}}{ln{(x(1+frac{sin{(x)}}{x}))}}=frac{1}{1+frac{ln{(1+frac{sin{(x)}}{x})}}{ln{x}}}
$$
Now what is the limit of
$$
lim_{xrightarrowinfty}frac{ln{(1+frac{sin{(x)}}{x})}}{ln{x}} = ?
$$
Then you can deduce the limit of:
$$
lim_{xrightarrowinfty}frac{1}{1+frac{ln{(1+frac{sin{(x)}}{x})}}{ln{x}}}
$$
This is important to realize that you can write
$$
lim_{xrightarrowinfty}frac{1}{1+frac{ln{(1+frac{sin{(x)}}{x})}}{ln{x}}}=frac{1}{1+lim_{xrightarrowinfty}frac{ln{(1+frac{sin{(x)}}{x})}}{ln{x}}}
$$
only because $yrightarrow frac{1}{1+y}$ is continuous (around the limit value).
Maybe a possible simple way (without using things like Hospital rule):
$$
frac{ln{(x)}}{ln{(x+sin{(x)})}}=frac{ln{(x)}}{ln{(x(1+frac{sin{(x)}}{x}))}}=frac{1}{1+frac{ln{(1+frac{sin{(x)}}{x})}}{ln{x}}}
$$
Now what is the limit of
$$
lim_{xrightarrowinfty}frac{ln{(1+frac{sin{(x)}}{x})}}{ln{x}} = ?
$$
Then you can deduce the limit of:
$$
lim_{xrightarrowinfty}frac{1}{1+frac{ln{(1+frac{sin{(x)}}{x})}}{ln{x}}}
$$
This is important to realize that you can write
$$
lim_{xrightarrowinfty}frac{1}{1+frac{ln{(1+frac{sin{(x)}}{x})}}{ln{x}}}=frac{1}{1+lim_{xrightarrowinfty}frac{ln{(1+frac{sin{(x)}}{x})}}{ln{x}}}
$$
only because $yrightarrow frac{1}{1+y}$ is continuous (around the limit value).
edited Nov 24 at 17:24
answered Oct 6 at 19:10
Picaud Vincent
1,08325
1,08325
add a comment |
add a comment |
up vote
3
down vote
You appear to have wrongly assumed that $$ln(x+sin(x))=ln(x)+ln(sin(x)). $$
An easy way to evaluate this limit is to use the known bounds on the sine function.
So what you are saying is that ln(x+sin(x)) = ln(x) when x goes to infinite because sin(x) does not grow beyond -1 and 1?
– Curl
Oct 6 at 18:32
@Curl You can't use an $=$ sign here. I will agree if you replace it with $approx$.
– user1337
Oct 6 at 18:33
2
You can use $ln(x+sin x)= lnleft(xleft(1+frac{sin}{x}right)right) =ln(x)+lnleft(1+frac{sin}{x}right)$ where the last term goes to zero.
– gammatester
Oct 6 at 18:56
add a comment |
up vote
3
down vote
You appear to have wrongly assumed that $$ln(x+sin(x))=ln(x)+ln(sin(x)). $$
An easy way to evaluate this limit is to use the known bounds on the sine function.
So what you are saying is that ln(x+sin(x)) = ln(x) when x goes to infinite because sin(x) does not grow beyond -1 and 1?
– Curl
Oct 6 at 18:32
@Curl You can't use an $=$ sign here. I will agree if you replace it with $approx$.
– user1337
Oct 6 at 18:33
2
You can use $ln(x+sin x)= lnleft(xleft(1+frac{sin}{x}right)right) =ln(x)+lnleft(1+frac{sin}{x}right)$ where the last term goes to zero.
– gammatester
Oct 6 at 18:56
add a comment |
up vote
3
down vote
up vote
3
down vote
You appear to have wrongly assumed that $$ln(x+sin(x))=ln(x)+ln(sin(x)). $$
An easy way to evaluate this limit is to use the known bounds on the sine function.
You appear to have wrongly assumed that $$ln(x+sin(x))=ln(x)+ln(sin(x)). $$
An easy way to evaluate this limit is to use the known bounds on the sine function.
answered Oct 6 at 18:27
user1337
16.9k43290
16.9k43290
So what you are saying is that ln(x+sin(x)) = ln(x) when x goes to infinite because sin(x) does not grow beyond -1 and 1?
– Curl
Oct 6 at 18:32
@Curl You can't use an $=$ sign here. I will agree if you replace it with $approx$.
– user1337
Oct 6 at 18:33
2
You can use $ln(x+sin x)= lnleft(xleft(1+frac{sin}{x}right)right) =ln(x)+lnleft(1+frac{sin}{x}right)$ where the last term goes to zero.
– gammatester
Oct 6 at 18:56
add a comment |
So what you are saying is that ln(x+sin(x)) = ln(x) when x goes to infinite because sin(x) does not grow beyond -1 and 1?
– Curl
Oct 6 at 18:32
@Curl You can't use an $=$ sign here. I will agree if you replace it with $approx$.
– user1337
Oct 6 at 18:33
2
You can use $ln(x+sin x)= lnleft(xleft(1+frac{sin}{x}right)right) =ln(x)+lnleft(1+frac{sin}{x}right)$ where the last term goes to zero.
– gammatester
Oct 6 at 18:56
So what you are saying is that ln(x+sin(x)) = ln(x) when x goes to infinite because sin(x) does not grow beyond -1 and 1?
– Curl
Oct 6 at 18:32
So what you are saying is that ln(x+sin(x)) = ln(x) when x goes to infinite because sin(x) does not grow beyond -1 and 1?
– Curl
Oct 6 at 18:32
@Curl You can't use an $=$ sign here. I will agree if you replace it with $approx$.
– user1337
Oct 6 at 18:33
@Curl You can't use an $=$ sign here. I will agree if you replace it with $approx$.
– user1337
Oct 6 at 18:33
2
2
You can use $ln(x+sin x)= lnleft(xleft(1+frac{sin}{x}right)right) =ln(x)+lnleft(1+frac{sin}{x}right)$ where the last term goes to zero.
– gammatester
Oct 6 at 18:56
You can use $ln(x+sin x)= lnleft(xleft(1+frac{sin}{x}right)right) =ln(x)+lnleft(1+frac{sin}{x}right)$ where the last term goes to zero.
– gammatester
Oct 6 at 18:56
add a comment |
up vote
0
down vote
The answer that I gave (below) originally seemed reasonable. However, per back and forth with zhw. in the comments, I'm forced to conclude that his counterexample is valid. My original answer is therefore left as a flawed idea.
An alternative approach to Picaud Vincent's answer is to assume that if $dfrac{f(x)}{g(x)}rightarrow 1;$ as $xrightarrowinfty,;$ then $dfrac{text{ln}[f(x)]}{text{ln}[g(x)]}rightarrow 1.$
Let $f(x)=x;$ and $g(x)=x+text{sin}(x).;$ Since $text{sin}(x);$ is a bounded function, $;dfrac{f(x)}{g(x)}rightarrow 1;$ as $xrightarrowinfty.$
That's false: Let $fequiv1,g(x) = 1+1/x.$
– zhw.
Oct 6 at 19:40
@zhw. in your example, doesn't $dfrac{text{ln}(f)}{text{ln}(g)} rightarrow 1;$ as $xrightarrow infty?$
– user2661923
Oct 6 at 19:43
No, $ln f(x)equiv 0.$
– zhw.
Oct 6 at 20:25
@zhw. so when examining $dfrac{text{ln}(f)}{text{ln}(g)}; text{as}; xrightarrow infty,;$ the numerator is always 0 and the denominator approaches 0. From this, how does one compute $dfrac{text{ln}(f)}{text{ln}(g)} ; text{as}; xrightarrow infty?$
– user2661923
Oct 6 at 21:24
@zhw. I see it now, you're right. I will edit my answer accordingly.
– user2661923
Oct 6 at 21:47
add a comment |
up vote
0
down vote
The answer that I gave (below) originally seemed reasonable. However, per back and forth with zhw. in the comments, I'm forced to conclude that his counterexample is valid. My original answer is therefore left as a flawed idea.
An alternative approach to Picaud Vincent's answer is to assume that if $dfrac{f(x)}{g(x)}rightarrow 1;$ as $xrightarrowinfty,;$ then $dfrac{text{ln}[f(x)]}{text{ln}[g(x)]}rightarrow 1.$
Let $f(x)=x;$ and $g(x)=x+text{sin}(x).;$ Since $text{sin}(x);$ is a bounded function, $;dfrac{f(x)}{g(x)}rightarrow 1;$ as $xrightarrowinfty.$
That's false: Let $fequiv1,g(x) = 1+1/x.$
– zhw.
Oct 6 at 19:40
@zhw. in your example, doesn't $dfrac{text{ln}(f)}{text{ln}(g)} rightarrow 1;$ as $xrightarrow infty?$
– user2661923
Oct 6 at 19:43
No, $ln f(x)equiv 0.$
– zhw.
Oct 6 at 20:25
@zhw. so when examining $dfrac{text{ln}(f)}{text{ln}(g)}; text{as}; xrightarrow infty,;$ the numerator is always 0 and the denominator approaches 0. From this, how does one compute $dfrac{text{ln}(f)}{text{ln}(g)} ; text{as}; xrightarrow infty?$
– user2661923
Oct 6 at 21:24
@zhw. I see it now, you're right. I will edit my answer accordingly.
– user2661923
Oct 6 at 21:47
add a comment |
up vote
0
down vote
up vote
0
down vote
The answer that I gave (below) originally seemed reasonable. However, per back and forth with zhw. in the comments, I'm forced to conclude that his counterexample is valid. My original answer is therefore left as a flawed idea.
An alternative approach to Picaud Vincent's answer is to assume that if $dfrac{f(x)}{g(x)}rightarrow 1;$ as $xrightarrowinfty,;$ then $dfrac{text{ln}[f(x)]}{text{ln}[g(x)]}rightarrow 1.$
Let $f(x)=x;$ and $g(x)=x+text{sin}(x).;$ Since $text{sin}(x);$ is a bounded function, $;dfrac{f(x)}{g(x)}rightarrow 1;$ as $xrightarrowinfty.$
The answer that I gave (below) originally seemed reasonable. However, per back and forth with zhw. in the comments, I'm forced to conclude that his counterexample is valid. My original answer is therefore left as a flawed idea.
An alternative approach to Picaud Vincent's answer is to assume that if $dfrac{f(x)}{g(x)}rightarrow 1;$ as $xrightarrowinfty,;$ then $dfrac{text{ln}[f(x)]}{text{ln}[g(x)]}rightarrow 1.$
Let $f(x)=x;$ and $g(x)=x+text{sin}(x).;$ Since $text{sin}(x);$ is a bounded function, $;dfrac{f(x)}{g(x)}rightarrow 1;$ as $xrightarrowinfty.$
edited Oct 6 at 21:49
answered Oct 6 at 19:23
user2661923
428112
428112
That's false: Let $fequiv1,g(x) = 1+1/x.$
– zhw.
Oct 6 at 19:40
@zhw. in your example, doesn't $dfrac{text{ln}(f)}{text{ln}(g)} rightarrow 1;$ as $xrightarrow infty?$
– user2661923
Oct 6 at 19:43
No, $ln f(x)equiv 0.$
– zhw.
Oct 6 at 20:25
@zhw. so when examining $dfrac{text{ln}(f)}{text{ln}(g)}; text{as}; xrightarrow infty,;$ the numerator is always 0 and the denominator approaches 0. From this, how does one compute $dfrac{text{ln}(f)}{text{ln}(g)} ; text{as}; xrightarrow infty?$
– user2661923
Oct 6 at 21:24
@zhw. I see it now, you're right. I will edit my answer accordingly.
– user2661923
Oct 6 at 21:47
add a comment |
That's false: Let $fequiv1,g(x) = 1+1/x.$
– zhw.
Oct 6 at 19:40
@zhw. in your example, doesn't $dfrac{text{ln}(f)}{text{ln}(g)} rightarrow 1;$ as $xrightarrow infty?$
– user2661923
Oct 6 at 19:43
No, $ln f(x)equiv 0.$
– zhw.
Oct 6 at 20:25
@zhw. so when examining $dfrac{text{ln}(f)}{text{ln}(g)}; text{as}; xrightarrow infty,;$ the numerator is always 0 and the denominator approaches 0. From this, how does one compute $dfrac{text{ln}(f)}{text{ln}(g)} ; text{as}; xrightarrow infty?$
– user2661923
Oct 6 at 21:24
@zhw. I see it now, you're right. I will edit my answer accordingly.
– user2661923
Oct 6 at 21:47
That's false: Let $fequiv1,g(x) = 1+1/x.$
– zhw.
Oct 6 at 19:40
That's false: Let $fequiv1,g(x) = 1+1/x.$
– zhw.
Oct 6 at 19:40
@zhw. in your example, doesn't $dfrac{text{ln}(f)}{text{ln}(g)} rightarrow 1;$ as $xrightarrow infty?$
– user2661923
Oct 6 at 19:43
@zhw. in your example, doesn't $dfrac{text{ln}(f)}{text{ln}(g)} rightarrow 1;$ as $xrightarrow infty?$
– user2661923
Oct 6 at 19:43
No, $ln f(x)equiv 0.$
– zhw.
Oct 6 at 20:25
No, $ln f(x)equiv 0.$
– zhw.
Oct 6 at 20:25
@zhw. so when examining $dfrac{text{ln}(f)}{text{ln}(g)}; text{as}; xrightarrow infty,;$ the numerator is always 0 and the denominator approaches 0. From this, how does one compute $dfrac{text{ln}(f)}{text{ln}(g)} ; text{as}; xrightarrow infty?$
– user2661923
Oct 6 at 21:24
@zhw. so when examining $dfrac{text{ln}(f)}{text{ln}(g)}; text{as}; xrightarrow infty,;$ the numerator is always 0 and the denominator approaches 0. From this, how does one compute $dfrac{text{ln}(f)}{text{ln}(g)} ; text{as}; xrightarrow infty?$
– user2661923
Oct 6 at 21:24
@zhw. I see it now, you're right. I will edit my answer accordingly.
– user2661923
Oct 6 at 21:47
@zhw. I see it now, you're right. I will edit my answer accordingly.
– user2661923
Oct 6 at 21:47
add a comment |
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